What women want

[Z_man]

I found this post on a Yahoo thread about nice guys and thought it was worth a repost to spark new discussion on this board.

 

 

"what women want

by: the_one_and_only_1980 (22/M/South Dakota, for now) 06/16/04 01:56 pm

 

i'm so tired of hearing women piss and moan about not finding a nice guy.. if i hear another woman make that comment i'm going to scream. i just have 2 things to say about that. 1, woman don't want a nice guy. they say they do but all they want is a guy that looks good in a tight pair of jeans and yet that complaing that men are shallow. we may date based on looks, but at least we are honest about it, so much better than woman who say they want something and have absolutely no intention of looking for that. what a load of bull. 2, the reason there are so few good/nice guys left is because women warp them into something else because they get so mistreated and used by the people that they are with that they just stop caring and then stop being the kind of person they were before.. so ladies, if u wanna know why there aren't any nice guys left.. its not because romance is dead... its because u killed it, with every guy u used u killed another piece of what romance used to be."

[moimeme]

I have been on a bunch of forums in my time and counting them and LS, this is about the 1, 087,663,458,996th post about this exact same thing saying this exact same thing.

 

The only possible answer to it is

 

 

Bullshxt.

[dyermaker]

Moi's just covering for femalekind. You totally unveiled their secret, dude.

 

Women want a man who not only looks great in jeans, but also mistreats them. It's like their fantasy to have insults hurled at them by a drunk, angry group of Robert Plant clones.

 

Now, sit tight and pretend you don't know their secret, it ruins it for them.

[dudesomewhere]

moi, don't you think this is what most women want though?

 

I mean, I workout and when I had the long hair, females really are surprised at the guy I am inside. I really do think they look at me and think, "ooh a jerk" and get all attracted. Now of course, I don't think they verbalize jerk...but subconsciously they formulate that type of guy based on my physical appearance.

 

So, sure, not all women want a jerk...but isn't it most? The thing is, I've also read numerous sources, polls, etc and whatnot that come from women, professing how or why they are attracted to the "jerk". And it all goes into the dating game thing. It all makes sense. We all know the dating game right? Whereby, indifference makes a guy attractive. Where when he ignores it makes him desirable? Whereby his ignorance and indifference creates a supposed mysitque that women find alluring? I've witnessed "jerk" behavior in all it's obvious glory in public and I can't help but believe what is stated above because not only is it stated above but restated by women in womens sites and magazines.

 

Doing retail work, I once stood next to a guy to help him. He was all out of shape...looked over and gave me an attitude...but I was helping him and being friendly. His gf was with him...could be more but who knows right? Anyways he had some attitude problem with me and of course eased off later after he realized I kept being the nice guy I am . But then later I saw him punch his girl on the shoulder...maybe jokingly while they had a little tiff but still hard enough it bothered her but he laughed in her face about it. And I thought to myself...not only is he a physical beast, he's so psychologically...and she's there with him and most likely was attracted to that in the first place. To me he was physically unattractive and out of shape, she was fit and trim though. So I couldn't help but to wonder the attraction.

 

What a long response/comment

 

So maybe not every woman, but most right? It would have to be as well when we factor in the cheating/infidelity ratio of 56% men, 53% women. Of which I always round up to a minimum 60/55%. Those numbers really add up though don't they?

[moimeme]

moi, don't you think this is what most women want though?

 

No. Hell no. Look, I am one. I've been in all-girl classes. I've been in clubs with 'em. Trust me, behind closed doors, no woman is saying 'gee, I want a jerk'.

 

but subconsciously they formulate that type of guy based on my physical appearance.

 

Got news for you, dude. The long hair conjures up images of Tarzan and those LOTR guys - none of whom are jerks! They were fancying you the romantic strongman who'd sweep them up in his arms and take care of them.

 

So, sure, not all women want a jerk...but isn't it most?

 

NO. no. nononononononononono. What sane person wants to be mistreated? And if you're about to remark on the sanity of women in general, beware!

 

The thing is, I've also read numerous sources, polls, etc and whatnot that come from women, professing how or why they are attracted to the "jerk".

 

It's not the 'jerk' they are attracted to. We've all seen the movies - the guy who is very slick, cool, a total lady magnet who's a dreamy sweetheart inside. They like the attitude and confidence of the guy, think they're getting the cocky guy with the heart of gold. They get hooked on the image they think they're getting. Then they come to LS and write about how badly their dreamboat is treating them.

 

Whereby, indifference makes a guy attractive.

 

It is not 'indifference'. It is lack of desperation. It is quiet confidence. It is the image of a fellow who's quite happy as he is and doesn't 'need' someone in his life.

I've witnessed "jerk" behavior in all it's obvious glory in public and I can't help but believe what is stated above because not only is it stated above but restated by women in womens sites and magazines.

 

A lot of women look for the 'cocky with heart of gold guy' when they are young. They still believe the movies and books. After a couple of those guys, they realize these guys are nothing but trouble, wise up, and then look for the nice guys. NOT the ones who can't get on happily in life unless they are dating, but equally happy and quietly confident guys but ones who don't think so highly of themselves that they treat everyone else badly.

 

and she's there with him and most likely was attracted to that in the first place. To me he was physically unattractive and out of shape, she was fit and trim though. So I couldn't help but to wonder the attraction.

 

The whole point of 'dating' is to put forth a marketing plan; present all the best sides of the product to hook the consumer. Then, when the consumer has bought, she finds out that the product is fundamentally flawed - but it's too late. Women don't see someone being rotten and think 'give me some of that.

 

So maybe not every woman, but most right? It would have to be as well when we factor in the cheating/infidelity ratio of 56% men, 53% women. Of which I always round up to a minimum 60/55%. Those numbers really add up though don't they?

 

Do some reading on the causes of infidelity. Most people who stray do so because they don't feel loved/wanted/appreciated/and /or desired at home. Some of those people probably married their 'jerks'.

[swtbonita]

I think girls do want a bad boy at first.. but they want to be able to change that bad boy into a good boy..

Women want to find a guy the can change and mold.. They want a challenge..

[moimeme]

Women want to find a guy the can change and mold.. They want a challenge..

 

Some do. Until they figure out that's a really dumb plan

[fundamental]

I'd have to agree with moimeme.

 

 

I am a nice guy and have had no problems with women. I feel it has to with confidence. Most women don't want a man to act like a weak well-trained puppy dog. You CAN be a nice guy without being weak. Women want a man with confidence! If you don't have confidence, she will tear you apart. She will become a vampire and suck the attention out of you like blood. She will do this because she can--and because you are giving her all of your attention. She can't do that to a confident man because even though he may like the woman, he has other things in his life--job, school, hobbies, friends, etc.

 

The difference between confident guys and "nice guys" is that a confident man will not change his whole life schedule just to please the woman he is pursuing. If he does this 24/7, then the woman sees this as a sign of desperation and he appears weak. He will act nice and constantly seek her approval. Guys, you can't act like that. Women feel that you are not truly being yourself because you don't have an opinion/mind of your own.

 

There will be women who specifically seek out men who will treat them like $h*+. If you are a true confident, nice guy why would you want to deal with and chase after a woman who wants that type of guy?

 

The reason "nice guys" complain is because they are putting more effort into her than she is into him. Then she will go straight for a guy who is paying her some attention but not drowning her with attention. Well, like I said before think of a woman as a vampire, if you let her suck your blood (attention), she will and she doesn't have to give you anything. Remember, only the strong survive.

 

I am not saying to go out and act like a "jerk" just to get a woman or to make a point. However, just be yourself. Treat her like you would a family member, or a friend. When you talk with family or friends, you have your own opinions and ideas and you don't try to impress them just to win their approval. This is how you should treat her. You will get more respect.

 

fundamental

fundamentally sound

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by moimeme

Trust me, behind closed doors, no woman is saying 'gee, I want a jerk'.

I don't believe he said he thought it was a conscious thought.

 

Got news for you, dude. The long hair conjures up images of Tarzan and those LOTR guys - none of whom are jerks! They were fancying you the romantic strongman who'd sweep them up in his arms and take care of them.

 

So are you speaking for all women now or just yourself? Because I don't think all women think this way. I know I don't.

 

It's not the 'jerk' they are attracted to. We've all seen the movies - the guy who is very slick, cool, a total lady magnet who's a dreamy sweetheart inside. They like the attitude and confidence of the guy, think they're getting the cocky guy with the heart of gold. They get hooked on the image they think they're getting.

Once again, you use the word they. Are you speaking for yourself or all of womankind now?

 

I'm sure a lot of women don't consciously seek out "jerks," whatever that really means. But some of them, unfortunately, end up with them unwittingly. I don't think it's fair to generalize women any more than it is to generalize men. I think we can each speak for ourselves.

 

Z_man - I will answer your question, speaking for myself only. I don't like jerks, male or female. I like people who are honest, trustworthy, open, funny, sincere...and have a good work ethic (i.e., hold a job), are physically attractive to ME (not necessarily to other people). And I'm more than willing to provide the same.

[ladyangel]

(sorry, double post... deleted by author)

[moimeme]

I believe it was clear that I was speaking about the particular ladies who fell for dude's long locks when I said They were fancying you the romantic strongman who'd sweep them up in his arms and take care of them

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by dudesomewhere

I mean, I workout and when I had the long hair, females really are surprised at the guy I am inside. I really do think they look at me and think, "ooh a jerk" and get all attracted. Now of course, I don't think they verbalize jerk...but subconsciously they formulate that type of guy based on my physical appearance.

 

Originally posted by moimeme

I believe it was clear that I was speaking about the particular ladies who fell for dude's long locks when I said They were fancying you the romantic strongman who'd sweep them up in his arms and take care of them

 

Well, um...first of all, he didn't say they "fell for him." What he said is that he thought they saw him as a jerk because of the stereotype that he thinks exists because of his long hair, were attracted to that, and then were surprised that he was a different guy inside.

 

I may be wrong -- and of course, I'm speaking for myself here -- but I would be even more attracted to him after seeing how he really was on the inside. He seems to say he's a nice guy, and I don't doubt that.

[msrealdoll]

What most women I know want is good sex. A great lover. What women find sexy and a turn-on is so widely varied you couldn't possibly narrow it down to 'all women'.

 

If a woman finds a man that for her is a great lover, she is willing to overlook some flaws. She may overlook far too much, and find herself in an emotionally toxic relationship. But the sex overrides all those flaws.

 

All that stuff about teaching a guy what you want and open and honest communication is wonderful. But there's nothing quite like a guy that pushes all your buttons without having to be told or asked.

 

Being with a man that's a great lover is like constantly wearing rose colored glasses. You see him in an entirely different light. You just can't see the real him. You're looking at everything through this blissful fog.

 

I've talked to a lot of women about this. Most seem to feel like they put up with the jerks because of the sex. Which is not to say that only jerks are great lovers. The nice guys that are great lovers are generally taken. We hold onto them as long as we possibly can.

[Lilyann]

As a female, I know that both my friends and I are looking for a certain mixture of a nice guy. I do not want to date a guy that is to "nice " that he is fearful to share his opinions or ideas in fear for going against mine and nor do I want him to not be able to stand up for himself. I do not mean in a fight, but against me in his opinions and in fights. I do not want someone who will let you walk all over him. I think this goes for miost women - in turn this comes to mind when some think about a nice guy. Now not all nice guys are like this, hence you cannot read a book by its cover. i myself have dated really nice guys, that after we broke up were an a**. I know that this is typical but we dated for a long period of time and were friends before. I still see them as a nice guy, but I think they have that mixure that some women are looking for. I guess I am not the norm, I only date guys that are nice and do not treat me like s***.

[Curt]

I believe that confidence and good looks combine to make an almost unbreakable spell for the women.

 

No, women don't CONSCIOUSLY look for the jerk. That would be ludacris.

 

But:

 

They VERY OFTEN get attracted to those guys that have the looks, confidence, etc., and can therefore attract the attention of ANY number of women. These guys are often the jerks ... I wonder if they really have much regard for women as individuals at all.

 

Such a man will likely not see any overwhelming impetus to treat one woman with any great degree of reciprocity or whatever.

 

Why would he? Afterall, he knows consciously or subconsciously that there are plenty more women in the line of ladies forming behind him.

 

The "project guy" (especially for women of younger years) is also an unspoken reality.

 

I should hope that no woman in her right mind would consciously seek out poor treatment. Nonetheless, if you're gonna lust and seek after guys that have "learned" their "status" among the female population, then that's almost as disturbing as if it was done as a matter of purposeful action.

 

Hmm ... I sound very negative here, but I think there's a lot of truth there too.

 

Of course there will be a few women out there who are looking for the right things in a guy. Try finding them though!

 

Comeon Merry! I know you'll rip me to shreds on this. BUT ... give it some thought beforehand. Think NOT of your own standards ... think of the "typical" women that are out there.

 

Curt

[dudesomewhere]

I must say...I really enjoyed this thread. Ahhh, good things (Along Came Polly reference )

[Z_man]

Dudesomewhere, I think you had the best reply in your first post. That was very insightful and lead to a piece by piece breakdown of a major misunderstanding between the sexes. Just like men shouldn’t judge women like a book by it’s cover, trying to peg men into the ‘bad boy’ image is truthfully unrealistic and you don’t get to know the guy for the person he is, just a conceived image.

 

I also hear a common theme among other guys, that women have a certain way in relationships and that there is nothing a guy can do about it but ‘just play along’. Well my concern is, instead of just playing along, why not challenge women to have a relationship on a higher level? What I mean is, women seem to have an aversion to a guy who admires them and cherishes them. That doesn’t mean that the guy is automatically a doormat but he may be at that mature level that he knows how to give rightful appreciation to a woman who deserves it. I believe women should be challenged to let themselves be admired when warranted and not be so abrasive towards it. Seeking the guy who ignores them and then engaging in the cat and mouse game of ‘the chase’ has such an immature high school ring to it and can’t believe adults give that tactic legitimacy still. Those types of relationships lead to heartache and the nice guys don’t get a chance at the relationship until the woman has been burned and now she is seeking a nice guy to settle down with just to be treated decently.

[dyermaker]

What's the obsession with "getting" a woman?

 

Really--what does it do for you?

 

Because if you have to change yourself to get it, you're only going to keep it for as long as you can maintain your charade.

 

Wouldn't it be more rewarding for you to be yourself until someone likes you for what you've always been?

[dawns19]

That does sound like something I'd want.... *dreams of mean in tight jeans* hehe...

[moimeme]

Comeon Merry! I know you'll rip me to shreds on this. BUT ... give it some thought beforehand. Think NOT of your own standards ... think of the "typical" women that are out there.

 

Oh, Curt! Such cynicism!! Surely I'm not that much of an oddball? Tell ya what. I'll pose the question to my current gal pals and see what they say. I'll ask what they are looking for and what they are attracted to and report back.

[dudesomewhere]

Originally posted by Z_man

I also hear a common theme among other guys, that women have a certain way in relationships and that there is nothing a guy can do about it but ‘just play along’. Well my concern is, instead of just playing along, why not challenge women to have a relationship on a higher level? What I mean is, women seem to have an aversion to a guy who admires them and cherishes them. That doesn’t mean that the guy is automatically a doormat but he may be at that mature level that he knows how to give rightful appreciation to a woman who deserves it. I believe women should be challenged to let themselves be admired when warranted and not be so abrasive towards it. Seeking the guy who ignores them and then engaging in the cat and mouse game of ‘the chase’ has such an immature high school ring to it and can’t believe adults give that tactic legitimacy still. Those types of relationships lead to heartache and the nice guys don’t get a chance at the relationship until the woman has been burned and now she is seeking a nice guy to settle down with just to be treated decently.

 

So profound...I believe and feel that so earnestly...all of that paragraph. I wonder if we...meaning all of us who've contributed to this thread, were to sit down and talk about it in person could we all agree that as a WHOLE "an aversion to a guy who admires them and cherishes them."...is something that is true. So often enough that it can be generalized. That is why we have this dating game thing.

 

I believe I am a nice guy(the whole real nice guy/good guy), I love women, respect them (if they aren't skanks ), look at them equally (or even want to when they sometimes don't want to), all the positive things you could imagine. I've received that abrasiveness with my gentleness and concerns and it confounds me, but only partially so. Because a part of me knows why and a part of me does not understand why.

 

So, I'm sure most of us know this dating game thing. If the rules were laid in front of me and path A is the good/nice guy path of no games and path B is the macho jerk and it is said path A might have a 10% success rate but path B is scored 90%, I would still choose path A. If there were 100 women in a room and they said they'd choose B, I'd still be A. I've never played this game and never will because for one I don't understand it...and yet of course I do, in that weird absurd type of logic. Path A...honesty, respect, trustworthy, openess, forthrightness, which takes us into romance, being romantic and loyal...which leads to love...eventually. Path B...dishonesty, uncaring, aloofness, indifference, chauvinism, closed, underhanded smooth talking machismo jerkdom leads to instant gratification...whatever that may be. Yeah, I'd choose A.

 

There has been mention of this thing called quiet confidence. I believe I have that. I've been told I have that. I look at my life and the sea of romantic possibilities and I fish with a single line but I don't even use bait. Just me on the end of the line, holding it in the water wondering if anyone will see it, grab hold and give a couple yanks so I can reel them in. That's what I don't get. I don't spread myself thin. Of all the people that come and go, that pass through anyone's life...thousands of faces...I wait patiently and see someone and focus on them. When I see them, get to know them and like them I show it...that's how it should work. I'm not going to introduce myself, get to know them, tell them I like them or maybe even love them and then say, "I like you a lot...OK, I'll see you later, catch you around or something. Now that I have you I don't need you."

 

Maybe, if this is reasonable...I can equate it to having a pet. I love cats, let me say. I was thinking about getting a kitten recently but didn't want to get one and have it be home all by itself 8+ hours a day. I wouldn't think that fair or kind. Some people I guess look at love and intimacy at a distance, feeling it's ok to leave that kitten by itself. The kitten in my eyes represents the heart of the other person. I realize some people are like that but don't know why that's preferred. It's almost as if to say, "ok, you like/love me we see each other occasionally and exchange pleasantries and our love grows stronger with each passing day APART."

 

When I was younger, I had this cat. When I'd let him in and I'd go to my room to do things and shut the door...I'd find him standing outside...you see his shadow underneath and hear him sniffing around. He'd reach under the door space and paw to signal that he wants to come in. I'd open the door and he'd come in and just sleep with me. That's how I am when it comes to the other person. They can be "all up in my area" or "all up in my grill" and I wouldn't mind it.

 

We've all heard of needy and clingy right? I really don't understand the negativity with that either. Not when it's an affair of the heart. How can such a thing be bad when it comes to love? I've heard women say that about themselves and think it's bad...I've had someone I know personally say that and think that's bad...why? Like a child who needs and clings to a parent, it's all about love.

 

But I don't fault women who gravitate a certain way though. Discovering that some women gravitate to certain types because of abuse in their past to try and seek acceptance from that type makes things understandable. Even if it hurts the heart to know. Knowing that women who've had cheating fathers or fathers who have abandoned them and their family have commitment phobia makes things a little clearer...paints a clearer picure when you visualize that they correlate how their father treated their mother and they don't want to feel that betrayal or abandonment so they gravitate to that which is always temporary and get scared when something seems too substantive. (the preceding para was just a thought stream flowing in my life right now and is not to generalize women in this thread or otherwise )

 

That's a lot to say huh? I thought about going back and even deleting a majority of this but it goes unedited. I figure you can get a good vibe from this cerebral flow of mine . So I could go on and on but I'll cut it short. Hey, cut me some slack, it's my friday and it's the beginning of the week

[savethedrama4allama]

I for one love good guys, sweet guys, honest guys. I am not attracted to cocky attitudes or games. I do know some girls who are attracted to bad boys, but like all humans, every woman's preferences are different and can vary throughout stages in their lives. I do think that many women like bad boys for the challenge. They want to be THE ONE WOMAN who could change his ways. It makes them feel special to think that they are so great they tamed the guy into domestic bliss.

 

I hate it when people have the attitude that a guy shouldn't try too hard, call too much, be too affectionate or else he is needy. A guy who calls me, wants to hold my hand, or is willing to rearrange his schedule to fit me in tells me nothing more than he likes me. That doesn't mean he is pathetic.

 

Even if you've been burned before, there are girls out there who like good guys, believe me. Now...if you look great in a tight pair of jeans, that is a definite bonus, as I'm sure it would be to you.

[InmannRoshi]

Take a look at some of the fairy tales we are taught as children ... say a Beauty and the Beast, where the heroine is just pretty enough, smart enough and sweet enough to transform this terrible brute into her Prince Charming. You also have to look at the social conditioning we're raised with. In many ways it is programed into young girls that their value in a relationship is through the role of the selfless martyr. If nice guys don't provide them that role or that opportunity, it could be seen as unappealing.

[PUHLEEEEZE...]

Ah, dudesomewhere - You are going to make some woman VERY happy someday! My husband and I feel the same way about how "being up in each other's grill"... What other way should it be when you have found the right person? I know that sometimes you can start to think that maybe something is wrong with that ideology (and there are plenty of people who will tell you you're crazy to think it can be that way), but when you meet THE RIGHT ONE it will be just like you described it should be. It takes a long time, but it's worth the wait! Hang in there, don't waste time on women who "don't know what they want" or "need their space", and you will find here some day!!

[neptoon]

Conversely, men seem to like the women who cheat on them. Time and time again, I've seen this. They keep going back to the same girl who sleeps around instead of giving a chance to a woman who does not do this. I've seen it time and again and it always breaks my heart.