Fiancee dumped me after a drunken jealous push. How do I get her to move back in?

[royal]

Thanks. I'm not giving up yet. I promise you. If it works out I will let the 'group' know.

 

By the way, I just realized I wrote 'shouldn't have hit her' in my other post. Freudian slip I guess. I didn't hit her. I pushed her. There's a difference.

[Fayebelle]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

P.S. I really like how you talk about your gf . I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

 

Me too! If you treat and speak to her with the respect you've shown in writing about her you may still have a chance here. It's good that you want to cont. therapy either way. I wish you the best.

[msrealdoll]

I think the only way you're going to get her back right now is to somehow change the minds of the people that are advising her-namely, her parents.

 

Can you go talk to her dad? I know this sounds crazy, but it may work. If you could get him on your side by convincing him how much you love this woman, he may change his mind. By going to talk to him, it may show him how serious you are about change.

 

I don't know anything else that would work right now.

[CurlyIam]

Tome facing the consequences would have been not running the same night to her parents, but wait 'til the next day and confront him about it. Which she did .

 

Confromt him as in see where that leaves them. If he's sorry, if he meant it, if he admits to being violent, I don't now... just seeing his reaction. Not avoid the situation.

 

You seem to be conviced that once a man pushes you, he'll do it forever, every day, and even get start hitting her. I think it was a regretable one-time incident. I respect your not trusting this.

 

I believe women have this sense about bad guys. She was not looking for one. He is not one. But people make mistakes. I am doing the sme thing right now: looking at the context. He has not done it before and the circumstances make me belive that he will not do it again. Of course, it is not up to me to judge and apreciate it, but to his gf.

 

Who are you to call her an exhibitionist? I did not. Her bf did - read his the first post!

[gobain]

Good for you for admitting that no matter what she did she didn't deserve what she got.

 

I hope that in time you can work it out - you really do seem sincere. But you have to let her take her time and come to you. Chasing her will only seem controlling. Keep doing what you're doing - talking to her and re-establishing trust again. And keep up with the counseling. She needs to see that you are continuing to work on the problem for a while. Concentrate on what's best for you both and not so much on "getting her back" as soon as possible.

 

As for the plan of taking time to clear her head for a few days but then deciding to still keep her distance, you cannot blame her parents for that. It may be that she felt she needed more time than just a few days. Their influence is frustrating, I know, but understand that no matter how old she is, she is their daughter and they will want to protect her. The influence of a parent will only go so far and, in the end, it will be her decision.

 

msrealdoll makes a good point about building trust with them too. It may take time but try to sit down with them - maybe they can be included in a counseling session or two as well.

 

I wish you luck with all aspects of this. You need to realize, however, that fear and mistrust can do strange things to people. It may be more than she can overcome, but I have hope.

[royal]

I really hope she comes back. I love her so much. I will try and leave a message with her Dad and let him know I love his daughter and am getting some counselling to deal with my problems. He's a former head guidance counsellor by the way so maybe that's a good sign.

And yes, ultimately it will be her decision to make. I'm a little worried though since I haven't heard from her since Saturday. I will avoid contact for the next little while and leave the ball in her court and see what reaction I get. I've poured my heart out alot the past week believe me.

I like the idea of including the parents in the counselling too. First things first though. I have to get a response from her.

 

And she is an exhibitionist believe me( She liked to do it in a bar's washroom).

Thanks to all for your well wishes.

[Debster]

Debster: We had minor arguements but never raised our voices at eachother. I don't get your logic though. How come I can't just learn from my mistakes and take the steps to ensure it never happens again? I've apologized profusley and let her know about what I'm doing already. We'll see if she comes back. Yes, I am also doing the counselling for myself.

 

I think you are missing my point. IMO, If this is your first time being that angry with her, then she will assume that every time you are that angry you will react this way. Basically in minor arguments you can control yourself. But if you feel jealous and insecure, look out!

 

Plus, I think you need to relax a bit and work on your jealousy and self esteem issues in counselling, as well. She was dancing on a stage. A guy grabbed her stomach. My god, that is not that big of a deal and it happens all the time in dance bars in Toronto. Heck, a number of years ago I used to dance on the speakers and on the bar. Why? Not because I wanted to drive my boyfriend (at the time) wild - but because it was fun. A guy will often try to touch and dance beside a 'gorgeous' woman at a bar. It is how she responds that is the big deal. Did she grab his ass? Did she grind him? etc....

 

You can learn from your mistakes and ensure it will never happen again. The counselilng is one step in the right direction. GOod for your for going. BUT that may not be enough for her. The ol' once bitten, twice shy. I believe you said she was abused in a previous relationship. If so, the first sign of something abusive and she will automatically want to run. As much as you regret it and feel bad, it might be too late.

[royal]

But it wasn't just an arguement. My girlfriend was on a stage grinding (yes, grinding ) with another guy in front of the world. I wanted her to have fun and I thought she was just dancing with her girlfriends. Then I look up and saw that. We had an agreement,look but no touch and she broke it. Albeit when she was very drunk.. I've never reacted this way with her before this. Usually I am the one be grinded though. It's just that I was talking to one of my guy friends I hadn't seen in months and she wandered off.

 

I certainly hope it isn't too late. We loved eachother very much before this happened...Here's a sample from one of her recent emails:

 

... I wish I had never stepped onto the dance floor. You have no idea how much I wish I could take back that night. We had such a good relationship up until this point. We would've had such a great life together. It makes me very sad thinking about all of that....I am really really sorry that all of this happened. I was in a state of shock for days. "

 

I can only keep trying, get the counselling and hope she comes back eventually.

 

R.

[Pyrannaste]

I pushed her after she didn't fall down or hurt herself if that makes adifference.

 

I wonder how hard you pushed her. And *how* you pushed her.

 

I think there is a big difference in pushing someone with the intention of hurting them, and pushing them being careful not to hurt them.

And most people can tell the difference.

Yesterday my bf got a slap on the face....I know it was *not* a nice gesture, but it was an extremely fleeble slap. I meant to make the gesture of slapping him, but I was careful (upset as I was) not to hurt him.

 

I think there is a huge difference between pushing your gf away from the guy she is flirting with out of jealousy and pushing her *to hurt her*. If this makes any sense.

 

I also think that Debster made a good point here:

 

IMO, If this is your first time being that angry with her, then she will assume that every time you are that angry you will react this way.

 

Perhaps if she realizes you didn't push her with the real intention of hurting her she'll take you back.

[royal]

I pushed her in the shoulder and she stumbled back a few steps. I did not want to hurt her. What's done is done though. The perception is that I 'beat her up' regardless of how hard it was. The fact that everyone was drunk didn't help matters much either. This contributed to the mixed perceptions of the matter. Her father and her told me that they both called the bar and apparently spoke to witnesses. He father said, what I did was criminal and she claims the guy wasn't doing anything to her. She was so drunk she doesn't even remember what happened! This is what kills me . I'm being condemned for something she doesn't actually remember!

My guy buddy was trying to catch me to try and fix things up but I ran out of the bar to fast before I could be caught. I even tried getting int he cab with her afterwards and was screamed out by her friends and the bouncer said he would call the police if I didn't get out.

 

Anyways, I can only hope our love is strong enough and she will find some forgiveness in her heart for me.

[Fayebelle]

Wow Royal- it sounds like you were both truly wasted! Does she black out often? If so she may be just as frightened of her lack of recollection as she is of what she heard happened. She really doesn't know how hard you pushed her and that could def be contributing to her fear. If blackouts and jealousy are common probs when you two drink you may want to consider AA as another stop on your treatment trail. You may or may not have a drinking prob on top of everything else but the best way to know is to educate yourself. This is another step you may want to take together if she is ever willing to join therapy with you.

[tiki]

How do you girls feel when a guy grabs you by the arm to pull you back to him (while you were walking away)? This makes me absolutely crazy and scares the life out of me when a man does this. Since we're kinda on that topic, how does it make you other women feel? Does that intimidate you as much as it does me?!

[royal]

Faybelle:

 

Yes, we were both very wasted at the time. Like I said, martini's and shots of jagermeister. I'm about 190 and she's about 130. We both like to drink and that was one of the reasons we enjoyed eachother's company. We had a few other nights where she got wasted and I had to carry her out of the washroom in a bar after a concert. Maybe she is frightened by that. But I don't know. We've only spoken once since this happened, unfortunately. I've tried to tell her I didn't push her, but she seems to think I was trying to beat her up.

Up until now, there's been no jealousy in our relationship. There's been a couple blackouts though....If there was any jealousy, it was repressed. My doctor thinks the alcohol made me uninhibited and the insecurity I was suppressing about her exhibitionism came out. If I'm an alcoholic I would probably be a binge drinker because I only drink on weekends.

Again, at this point, I just want her to call me. If we're in counselling together, I'm sure the alcohol thing will come up. My counsellor thinks it might be an issue too so you know.

[shamen]

Royal: Good luck with your situation and I'm sorry that this happened to you.

 

Just a couple of thoughts for everyone...

 

1) So, if a woman dresses provocatively, does that give a man the right to rape her? I know it's not the same thing, but...

 

2) I actually did have a bf push me in a bar during a disagreement once. We were both drinking. I broke up with him immediately thereafter and we had been dating on and off for 3 years (mostly on the last 2). No man has the right to touch me in this way, ever, under any circumstances. He tried for several years afterwards to get me to start dating him again. Telling me that he loved me, etc. No amount of discussion was going to change my mind. None.

 

So, please stay in counseling. She may or may not forgive you; be prepared for both. I'm glad that you are doing what you need to get help.

[CurlyIam]

Hi, shamen

 

Maybe it is (again) a cultural differance issue but don't you think you are grately exagerating by comparing his action to rape? He was mad and he pushed her. Rape does not happen, rape is a premediated cold blooded event (at least that how we see it in Europe).

 

He needs to go counceling... he is going to counceling!! IMHO he should stop getting drunk, his girlfriend has to stop partying and her parents instead of treating him like a criminal should be spanking her, for she is acting like a teenager who just got to feel the sense of liberty after being deprived of it all her life! That's the treatment kids get for being naughty.

 

Honestely! Acting upon one's age sometimes is a must, not an option. He is the man inlove with her. This (again, IMHO) is a stupid stupid thing to break up over. It's blown over proportions. He did not mean to beat her up, he did not mean to harm her. He pushed her. They were both drunk and things got out of controll.

 

That's it! No serial killer here!

[shamen]

I'm not saying that what he did is the same thing as rape... what I'm trying to say is that some people are justifying his actions because of what she did. Rapists in the past (for all I know, today as well) use(d) the excuse that, "She made me do it because of the way she looked," "she's a whore," etc. So, I was just taking the defense of his actions to the extreme.

 

It's NEVER ok to hit/push/slap another person, regardless of the circumstances. Personal opinion. She is not blowing it out of proportion, regardless of what she did.

 

Yeah, what she did was stupid, no doubt. Yes, they should both have the alcohol issues addressed. (If you re-read my post, you'll note that I understood that he was going to counseling.) It still doesn't justify him pushing her. Violence in any context, no matter the size or the type, is still violence. Lots of men are in love with the woman that they hurt (in all sorts of different ways).

 

Again, this is my opinion. Each to his own. Just trying to warn him that she might not come back.

 

BTW, rape is not always considered pre-meditated (that is probably a cultural difference, but I also believe that it is not always pre-meditated). Culturally, we've got a whole group of them here that are classified as "date rape," when you are out with someone and the guy takes advantage of the situation. Sometimes even while the girl is drunk; it's still rape.

[royal]

Shamen: ????. This wasn't a disagreement. We were engaged not casually f-buddies...I've never loved a woman as much as her, get it? Please don't try and compare my situation to yours or rape. It's not even remotely close.

 

 

CurleyIam:Thanks for the back up. Booze and I won't be playing together for a long time together after this incident has pretty much ruined my life. I can't blame her parents for thinking about the safety of their child. As unjust and unecessary as it is. Remember, most of the facts of the night are blurred because everyone was drunk. Although I like the spanking idea (and so did she, but I digress...).

 

I really hope she realizes this is a stupid thing to break up over too. Only time will tell. I'm not going to contact her for a couple days. I almost want to send her a link to this thread now because there's a lot to be learned from here about what her options are I think. Shamen's post aside.

[Thinkalot]

Royal...just had a quick scan through the rest of this thread...and want you to know that you have my support here. My fiance has pushed me away sometimes. Not with intent to hurt, but because I was chasing him around the house arguing! I don't consider it abuse. I think to say that would be blowing it out of proportion. I don't like it if there is any physical contact like that. But it is seldom, and when we are both very heated. Andit's because I won't leave him alone and keep chasing....he tries to shut the door to be alone...I open it...he pushes me out, with no intent to hurt me.

 

My point is...stuff does happen sometimes. Even between the best of couples. We are currently seeing a counsellor together to smooth out these type of heated communication exchanges...no matter how infrequent they are!

 

I think personally, you both made errors on the night. I'm not saying one justifies the other....but it certainly seems entirely forgivable to me.

 

I'd also be concerned about her running back to mum and dad. I've been guilty of that in the past too (some time ago now..) and I realised I needed to let go and be my own person.

 

Good luck to you!!

[CurlyIam]

BTW, rape is not always considered pre-meditated What??? you must be kidding me... their defense would be.."and I was walking one day in abeautiful park and... I really felt this urge to rape her". That is disgusting, but I believe you if you're saying it.

 

 

This is quite an issue for me. I am also dead set against violence, some things from the past. But ... I don't know. It's because it is so damn hard to find a perfect match I guess. When one does find a good person to complete them, who loves them and whom they love back, I have this ... thing about overreacting. About creating big problems where there are none. Like Molière's "Imaginary Invalid".

 

My impression is that this is something of a diseasein the States. IT is enough to have someone whisper "child abuse" that one will certainlygo to prison. It is enough for a man (we're leaving the ground out of it) to push a woman to be making associations with rape - you were not the first, I think gobain beat you to it

 

 

 

Yes, violence is a big issue. But there are different types of violence, some more serious than others. I know to some people shouting is ground for leaving. But if so, than mayne that couple didn't share too much in the first place. Considering that there are more types of violence and that one relationship may bring happiness to a couple... who knows?

 

you say " violence isn't accepted".Isn't shouting violence? Isn't breaking things in access of nerves violence? We can twist this 'till we get tired, my point is that we have to look at facts, at context, at people and then jump to conclusions.

 

His gf was so drunk that she doesn't even remember what happened! Why is she scared? Why, I ask you? For the significance that the society she lives in gives to his action. And for the lack of meaning that her actions seem to have in the eyes of the same society.

 

Shamen, If I am not mistaken you are the only person admitting she had done something wrong. I agree we should not turn this on her, but ther is no smoke without a fire!!!

[royal]

Can I just clarify one thing...I am not trying to justify the 'push' because of what she did. I have acknowledged already that it was undeserved and I crossed the line. But again, I am in love, apparently somewhat insecure and need to learn some tools for dealing with this type of anger. I am trying to make it up to her and ensure it never happens again.

 

Thanks Thinkalot for your support. Your earlier post inspired me to write her a nice email this morning echoing much of your sentiments. We've both acknowledged our errors from the night. But she can't seem to forgive mine yet. I have a feeling that if she doesn't come back to me she will find her own place. When this happens, she will be free of her parents and friends influence and I imagine her coming back to me then. I just can't believe two people could love eachother so much and throw it all away because of one drunken idiotic push.

 

I haven't heard from her for two days.I've given her alot to think about in three heartfelt emails and a message last night asking her to join me in some counselling.

 

It does indeed take two to tango. But I do not blame her though. I just want everyone to know what it was that triggered my stupid actions.

[Fayebelle]

OKAY- def gonna get hate mail on this but I gotta say there is NO EXCUSE FOR RAPE but like this push scenario I think some of these cases get blown way out of proportion. I hate hearing about girls who go to parties get wasted w/ a guy climb in to bed w/him and then cry rape the next day. Those guys are as much rapists as Royal is an abuser. They may not have used the best judgement but it's not necessarily criminal.

 

By the way - if Royal had pushed a male friend in the heat of an argument would this thread have ever gone back and forth for 3 pages? Does everyone hold their no violence rule equal between the sexes? Just wondering.

[Caveman]

If you were "about a month away from being engaged" how was she your fiancee?

[royal]

Caveman:

 

OK, I'm trying to keep things from going off tangent but ok... The plan was for me to give her an engagement ring on her birthday a month from now. I had already given her a promise ring before this. We had been to size her finger and pick the style of ring and diamond already so I consider her my fiancee. She told me she would say yes...The only thing left was for me to buy the ring and plan a surprise event to pop the question...Then all hell broke loose.

 

What difference does it make to the sitiation if she had the ring on or not? The intent and acknowledgement were there already.

[Caveman]

Well you didn't say that in your original statement. I have never heard of someone being called a fiancee before they are engaged...I was just trying to understand your logic or lack thereof...I get your point now.

[Thinkalot]

Just wanted to add...I mentioned this to my fiance, and he said he'd really hate it if I was close dancing with another guy, and could understand there being a reaction...even if it was too heated.