Fiancee dumped me after a drunken jealous push. How do I get her to move back in?

[shamen]

Jeez, I'm not saying that you raped the girl... Nor am I comparing the situation to rape. I was using the analogy to make a point about defending your actions.

 

The guy that I was with was not a f*** buddy. Did you notice the 3 years thing? You have been living together for 9 months. How long were you together before that? If it's not that long, you can see why she would be freaked out. Nine months is not a lot of time to know someone to know that this was (and would be) an isolated incident.

 

I DID acknowledge that she did something wrong. Please re-read my post.

 

I don't shout at people (except in the car when the windows are closed), nor do I break things in anger (I've never in my life done this). Yes, these are violent actions. Nor does it matter what sex the person is. If one of my girlfriends pushed me, I would have to say that I would end that friendship as well.

 

Royal, please don't be totally surprised if she doesn't come back. I'm just there to remind you of the other side of the coin. Some people just don't believe that they should be with someone who can push them. That's all. And yes, there is something to be learned from my post as well, because some people just won't stand for it. An end to the relationship IS one of her options.

[Thinkalot]

Yep, it's true, she may decide she cannot forgive such behaviour, especially if she has been involved with someone abusive in the past.

 

But you seem very sincere about improving yourself, so I hope this situation works out for you.

[moimeme]

But it wasn't just an arguement. My girlfriend was on a stage grinding (yes, grinding ) with another guy in front of the world. I wanted her to have fun and I thought she was just dancing with her girlfriends. Then I look up and saw that. We had an agreement,look but no touch and she broke it. Albeit when she was very drunk.. I've never reacted this way with her before this. Usually I am the one be grinded though. It's just that I was talking to one of my guy friends I hadn't seen in months and she wandered off.

 

You are justifying what you did. THERE IS NO EXCUSE. Too bad you didn't like what she did. Too bad she 'broke' your agreement. You had NO RIGHT to push her because you disapproved of what she did.

 

If you had said, right here, that you should never, EVER have taken the action you did, I might have sympathy for you but you are doing the classic abuser thing - blaming her. Sorry, buddy. She's right to stay away. Get your attitude fixed and maybe you'd be safe to live with but not now.

[Thinkalot]

Originally posted by moimeme

Get your attitude fixed and maybe you'd be safe to live with but not now.

 

I might be reading this wrongly, or maybe I'm just too trusting and naive here....but isn't he sorry, and saying he had no right to do what he did? I thought he was simply explaining what sparked it...not blaming her.

[Paradise]

Originally posted by royal

We were both very drunk one night out with a group of her friends from out of town. I saw her dancing with another guy. She is an exhibitionist and gorgeous. I got stupid jealous and yelled at her and pushed her accusing her of cheating on me.

Her friends took her back to her hometown that night and 5 days later her parents come to our place to pick up things and she's left me. I've spoken to her on the phone once since then and we've exchanged some emails back and forth. It's been over a week since it happened and I am desperatly trying to get her back.

You need to dump her and move on…. and make sure you will not ever be violent in a relationship. It is true that your action can not be forgiven! You should of never pushed her.

If she can not forgive you for your mistake (a big one at that) then there is no point. Just remember without forgiveness is there is no love.

[moimeme]

I thought he was simply explaining what sparked it...not blaming her.

 

He's justifying his actions. Nothing 'sparked' it, Thinkalot, other than him not liking what she was doing. What if she burned dinner? What if she wore a dress he didn't like? Where do you draw a line beyond which it's ok to push someone when they do something that displeases you? I don't care if she was having sex with another guy right on his table, he had no right to lay a hand on her. He should have removed himself from the situation but he did not. Instead he chose to be violent toward her.

[CurlyIam]

Originally posted by moimeme

I thought he was simply explaining what sparked it...not blaming her.

 

He's justifying his actions. Nothing 'sparked' it, Thinkalot, other than him not liking what she was doing. What if she burned dinner? What if she wore a dress he didn't like? Where do you draw a line beyond which it's ok to push someone when they do something that displeases you? I don't care if she was having sex with another guy right on his table, he had no right to lay a hand on her. He should have removed himself from the situation but he did not. Instead he chose to be violent toward her.

 

Yes, moi, I totally see how burning dinner and wearing a dress that Royal would not like reseambles to her on a dancefloor dirty dancing with another men in front of her bf and their friends... And he definately chose to be "violent" to her too - as a matter af fact he planned it, didn't you Royal? Didn't you Plan to be violent ?

 

Guys, this is paranoia.

 

Plus this has already been debated a few posts ahead.

 

I think it is strictly between the two of them. I can understand that some would not accept agitated outcomes, but then these people do not party like this couple does, do not drink like they do... They do not put themselves in this position. I totally understand someone who doesn't do any of the above to be dead set against any form of violence.

 

 

But one can't go to a Guns and Roses concert and expect everyone else not to step on their shoes. Again, not that she asked for it or that her behaviour explains it all. I am gonna get tired of crying : LOOK AT THE CONTEXT!!!

 

This thread becomes boring, for the simple reason that everyone feels the need to throw stones at Royal and almost no one responds to the mere purpose of this thread - helping him overcome the"sin" of having pushed her. I just love it when people use this occasions to portray themselves as saints!

[royal]

Just want to reply to a view recent posts:

 

shamen: Thanks for the clarification. We've been together for a year. I know she may never came come back. It's hard for me to accept though because as I said we were so in love. Never had a fight before this. And had so many plans for the future. The relationship ias it was is pretty much over now anyways, because she has left me and written me that she can never forgive me.

What I'm trying to find out is what I can possibly do to get her to forgive me. I'm in counselling, I've written her a number of emails and asked to go to couples counselling with me. What else can I try?

 

Thinkalot: Yes, I am sincere about improving myself and ensuring this never happens again. I love her so much, I hope the counselling will give me the tools to deal with this type of drunken jealous anger more productively. She is probably waiting to see if I'm serious about going though with it I imagine.

 

moimeme: The quote you've taken is my response to someone asking what she was doing at the time. You're taking it out of context. I'm sorry if it came across as justification. As Thinkalot suggests, I have not (read all 4 pages before you post please) been trying to say at all that what she did deserved my response. Quite the contrary, I know I was wrong and am trying to make amends. I should have just left the bar. That's the regret I feel. I love this woman so much. I guess what I was feeling was the worst manifestation of passion. I hope that once I'm 'fixed' as you say, she will come back to me. We were so happy together...It was a fairy tale romance I tell you.

 

Thinkalot:Yes, I'm not blaming her. I was in the wrong and my actions weren't justified. I'm just trying to figure out if there's anything I haven't done yet that could possibly get her to forgive me. What went through your mind when your fiancee did that stupid thing? How did you come to the decision to go back? Did he say or do something to help persuade you to take him back? This is the kind if insight that will help me.

 

Paradise: Why should I dump her when I'm the one who f'ed up? She is an amazing woman and deserved the world. I am in counselling! Why can't the action be forgiven? We had a deep love and respect for eachother believe me. She's told me she can never forgive me, but I can't accept that knowing that we were both drunk at the time, never had a fight before and have yet to speak face to face about the incident. Everything's been through email, voicemail and one phone call. It was a big mistake, I've admitted that many times already. My family keeps telling me to move on as well and that if she can't forgive me, then why torture yourself trying to get her back. They think I will never get over her if I keep this up and maybe they're right. I guess I'm basing my intent on our love up until this night. Woman like her are very hard to come by and when you find one that you want to marry, you should do everything to hold onto them. I screwed up big time and am trying to whatever it take to make it up to her, you see?

 

She's told me that the hardest part of this is that we were best friends and I've broken her trust in men as a result of what I did. She is in counselling too.

 

moimeme: Again, I'm not justifying what I did at all. These were the circumstances in which I did what I did is all. We never fought before, do you understand? She had done things that I didn't like before and I never even raised my voice. I was stupid drunk at the time when this happened. My judgement and emotions impaired and I did something stupid and I regret it immensley. I did not have a right to lay a hand on her your right. Me and her have both said since then that we wish we could turn back the clock and take this night back. She regrets going on the dance floor, I regret getting stupid jealous and angry and pushing her. That's it. We're human and were in love and somehow we got ripped apart. I will never drink again to say the least. I didn't chose to act violent towards her. I wasn't thinking. I saw what I saw and reacted. It's as simple and complicated as that.

 

CurleyIam: Yeah, I planned it alright...not. This was a huge mistake that I will regret until my dying day. And yes, I'm not surprised there are those out there who think I am beyond forgiveness. I know people are paranoid about abuse these days.

 

If there are any saints out there who can help me find a way to heal the wounds I've caused then please speak up. If I don't get her back, ok. Then at least I want to make amends to her and her family for what I did. I have told her that I accept entire responsibility for my actions and offered to reimburse her for her moving expenses at least. Since we also work together, I offered to be her advocate in getting her transferred or coordinating an extended leave on her behalf. And since we were best friends, I've offered her my full emotional support, although the former lovers as friends things is practicley impossible I know.

 

I tried calling her last night to let her know that I have a counselling session today and reiterated my offer of couples counselling. I also asked her to let me know plainly if she doesn't want me in her life anymore and to tell me to 'go away' if that's what she wants. The worse part of waiting and hoping for someone to forgive you is when they don't communicate. It's a painful cycle that I may in time have to overcome somehow. For now, I am keeping hope for us and will continue the counselling and anything else I can do (suggestions?) to try and earn back her trust and forgiveness.

 

Royal

[Bronzepen]

Royal,

 

Time..... That is all you have right now.

 

She knows you have apologised, she knows you are going to counseling, she knows you want to make everything right.

 

Right now, the ball is in her court. Give her as much time as she needs. Don't smother her but trying to contact her. Don't send emails.

 

I know it's hard but wait for her response.

 

In the mean time, concentrate on your counseling and making sure this will never happend again with her or possibly with anyone in the future.

 

Wish you the best.

[gobain]

I'm sorry, Royal, I believe that you've done everything that can be done right now. She will forgive you only when she's ready to do so.

 

As for your remark about "people being paranoid about abuse these days", I must take issue.

 

I'm not sure you understand that your perception of events is secondary here. Her perception is that you acted violently. You scared her and now she mistrusts you. Foggy from alcohol or not, that is where she is right now.

 

I think that on the surface you know what you did was wrong and are doing your best to make ammends. But eventually, through counseling or otherwise, you are going to have to realize that what happened does qualify as abuse - if only because what you did elicited fear from this woman - and truly face that.

 

What everybody here says really doesn't matter in the end. There is no magic solution to garner forgiveness and trust again. You can only give her time to deal with this and come to forgiveness on her own. Frankly, I think that you still need time yourself to come to grips with the entire episode. You need to do some forgiving yourself - not just go through the motions of repentence.

 

Again, my best to you and your friend. Hopefully you will both find peace with this.

[CurlyIam]

Very nicely put, gobain! I really like it

[royal]

Thanks gobain, that really puts it in perspective for me. I am having trouble letting her go as you can tell. This has been very hard for me to cope with and understand what to do. I will give her time and space and hope for the best.

[royal]

Bronzepen:

 

I guess you're right. Time is all I have left now to offer. I won't call her or email anymore and see what happens. It's tough though not hearing from her. We worked together, lived together and hung out together. Going from 24 hours a day to nothing is a huge transition. She is the real victim though, not me. Time heals all wounds they say, right?

 

I am going to my counsellor today and begin the process of working through my issues. I won't give up hope for us. If it's meant to be it will happen.

[Thinkalot]

Royal, I must say, that I still feel for you, and do hopes this works out. I understand the views of some here that violence is NEVER warranted, as a form of control, or expression. I can see that clearly.

 

However, I feel that you deserve forgiveness in this instance. If you did this again, at all...then that would be it.

 

As for me...I loved my then boyfriend (now fiance) so much, I could not imagine him not being in my life. At first, I wanted anything for him to stop being angry and putting me down in such an awful manner (swearing, name calling etc). Then I realised, with the help of friends, I had to stand back, and let him come around, to see if he wanted to overcome his judgements, and be with me. I also realised he needed counselling. Then I started realising that I would also have to forgive.,..because I was hurt and upset. I knew I could forgive, if he showed true signs of overcoming things...I also set up certain boundaries and groundrules...ie..NEVER speak to me like that again; we must see a counsellor etc

 

Basically, he showed me he was sincere. He apologised for his actions. He said he was wrong. He said he loved me so much, he did not want to lose me, and was prepared to do what hehad to to overcome his issues with my past. I said we needed to book a counsellor, and we did straight away. He agreed he'd never speak like that again about that subject, and he never has. We also explored where the anger had come from, and discovered there were some other issues of concern to him ...and I agreed to do my part to fix things I needed to change. And so on.

 

Royal...it was not an easy process. The hurt lingered with me for some time. I found it hard to feel as close to him, and trust as fully. Time healed the wounds though, along with a willingness on my part to overcome them. It was hard for my guy too....because he had been hurt and upset by things he'd discovered about me....none of them terrible...but somehow they changed his image of me. We got through it though...and came out the other side much stronger.

 

It's part of our history now. That's all. Since then he's stood by me through my battle to overcome OCD, and I love him, and he loves me very much. Marriage to him is right.

 

I don't know whether your fiancee will be able to get past this, or whether she wants to. Perhaps if she does, you will need to agree to set down some solid groundrules. You may even find yourself on trial for a while. Counselling together would also help.

 

P.S. what gobain says is true. What you did does constitute abuse, and did cause her fear. What my guy did was verbal abuse, and it caused me fear, and extreme pain. He recognised that fact , and admitted it to me. It was important to me that he saw it from my viewpoint. He was ashamed and upset. You seem to be also. We all make mistakes. Not everyone gets violent though. Ijust hope it works out for you. In the end it's between you two. Time will tell.

[beautiful]

When you love someone you don't abuse them! Period! Yes, pushing is ABUSE!

You can't blame your anger out burst and abuse on being drunk.

Your ex did the right things and as far as I am concerned I hope she stays away from you. She is smart!

 

 

I have zero tolerance for anyone who abuses anyone. You right about needing help. Longterm counseling! This does not happen over night. If you truly love her, leave her be and respect her space.

 

Maybe the next time you think twice before you lay a hand on a woman!

[royal]

Thinkalot:

 

 

Again, I really appreciate your support and understanding. Thank you for sharing your experiences with forgiveness with me. I agree with everyone that what I did was completely wrong. I don't want to do it ever again. I have started to learn about the link between my emotions (ie. anger) and our physical bodies (ie. tension etc.) through my counselling and have since started to do more exercise to release excess energy. I'm discovering too that I may have learned this behavior from a previous relationship too where I was with a woman who was bipolar and abusive. My short term plan is to sign up for a meditation or yoga class to try and get in more touch with my self and understand what makes me tick better and find some peace hopefully. I have given up drinking altogether as well.

 

I'm still holding up hope that she will forgive me eventually. And I am fully committed to the counselling and doing what it takes to prevent this from happening again. It's hard, sometimes I think she will forgive me and then other times I lose hope and have the face the facts that it could be over for good. I guess the fact that I haven't heard from her since my offer of couples counselling could mean that there's still a 50/50 chance.

Or maybe she's just blocking my email at this point...

 

I am going to take gobain and Bronzepen's advice and just let time heal the wounds and give her a chance to forgive me. She has written me and said that:

 

"You have no idea how much I could take back that night. We had such a good relationship up until this point. We would've had such a great life together. It makes me very sad thinking about all that."

 

So she does sound resigned to it being over for now. But the fact that we had 'such a good relationship' and great future does give me hope that if she knows I am working to overcome my issues she would take me back in time. That's all I can do.

 

Maybe she is waiting like you did, to see if I am serious about dealing with my issues too? Although again, she has already told me that she can 'never forgive me for what happened' in an email so I may be deluding myself in thinking that.

 

I don't understand why you forgave him because you were upset and hurt. Was it because you knew forgiveness was the only way to feel better? Or just that you couldn't imagine him not being in your life and forgiveness was the way to ensure he stayed? My fiancee has said she is so hurt by what I did that she will be 'single for a very long time.'

 

I do hope she sees my sincerity as well. If she starts talking to me again, I really want to do some couples councelling with her and root out any other issues between us. She's worth it.

 

My situation seems more serious though doesn't it? The fact that I abused her physically is the worst thing a man could do to a woman he loves. Verbal abuse causes pain too I know, but it's not as stigmatized as physical abuse or as harmful. It may be too hard for her to overcome to even consider forgivess. It's all speculation at this point for me.

 

I'm also starting to feel the pull of my guy friends to leave her behind and move on now. They are starting to demonize her as 'unstable' and I don't want to do that. They don't know her and I think they are just saying bad things about her because they want me to forget about her. I'm still hoping she will come back though and don't want to go down that road.

 

Yes, I agree with gobain. It was abuse and she is afraid of me regardless. I've told her that I understand her reaction. I've never felt such regret for something I've done in my entire life. I've never loved someone as much as I love her and because of my actions that night, have lost the girl of my dreams. Her past relationship history and concerns about 'if he did this, he could do it again or worse' are the two biggest hurdles for her to find forgiveness I think.

 

Either way, I have learned a huge lesson from this, alot about myself and where I need some development as a man.

[royal]

Beautiful:

 

Oh, I feel shame don't worry about that...Did you read the thread before you posted? I never said pushing wasn't abuse or was using being drunk as an excuse. These were the circumstances in which I made a huge mistake that's all.

Why can't two people who love eachother make a mistake and forgive one another and work to overcome/prevent them? We love each other and this was our first conflict in being together for a year. It was a dream relationship. We are human and do stupid things. When you're drunk, your decision making is impaired and emotions uninhibited. It's not an excuse, this is just me understanding and explaining what contributed to my mistake. We had been drunk together a million times before and this never happened. It's a combination of circumstances that let to me being abusive. I accept responsibility for what I did and am working to make myself better.

 

Yes, I will never lay my hands on a woman again I promise you. It's been tragic for all people involved.

[Matilda]

I have read the entire thread, but I'm still not positive I have this right. You did say that she was abused in a previous relationship, right? I think that may have a lot to do with her reaction.

 

I was abused in my first marriage, and I would never tolerate any kind of physical behavior from anyone again. It would just be too scary.

 

Nine months (that's the amount of time you've been together, right?) is not a very long time. My first husband and I were together 2 years before he started being abusive to me, although I always knew he had a bad temper. She may be feeling like she didn't really know you, like she thought you were one kind of person, and you turned out to be another.

 

(BTW, my first husband started with pushing, and then it progressed. We both went to counseling, apart and together. I really wanted to make it work because we had a child together, but unfortunately it did not.)

 

Unfortunately for you, I think you are entirely at her mercy. If she wants to try again with you, she will, if not, I don't think there is anything that you can do. Time may help some. The problem is, most abusers are very contrite and charming after the abuse, and if she was in an abusive relationship before, she may equate your current actions with that kind of behavior.

 

I commend you for going to counseling, and trying to make yourself a better person. Good luck to you.

[royal]

Matilda:

 

She was in a relationship before where the guy was very possessive and controlling. I think he verbally abused her. I don't know if there ever was any physical abuse.

The reason she gave me as to why she couldn't forgive me was because I treated her like an object and possession. So, I think I touched nerve from her past with what I did. Although it was a one time instance compared to the sober serial abuse she dealt with before.

 

We've been together a year. And living together for 9 months. So you're right, she could think she didn't know eachother possibly. But we were very close. Best friends in fact. She knew me better than anyone and we never imagined this could happen between us. We had a great relationship up until this night. If I had just been angry, gave her a piece of my mind and left. It would have been dealt with the next morning. The fact that I pushed her, made all the difference.

I have been so distraught by what's happened I am going to do whatever it takes to ensure it doesn't progress like your ex's behavior.

 

I have given up trying to beg forgiveness and speak/write my heart on the matter. I have said and done everything I can possibly do to get her to forgive me. Giving her time to consider forgiveness knowing what I'm doing is really all I have left to offer.

 

That's interesting to hear about how abuser's are very contrite and charming after the abuse. I hope she doesn't think that way. We have had a few emails since this happened and I didn't get the impression she thought I was trying to manipulate her. I am being as apologetic, proactive and sincere as possible. The trouble is, we were best friends and she thought I could be trusted and I did this.

 

The counselling is already starting to bear some fruit for me. So that much is good at least.

 

I'm curious, what went through your mind after the first push your partner gave you? Did you assume it was a one time thing? How did you come to forgiveness? Was it just for the sake of your child that you came back?

[Fayebelle]

Royal- if you don't mind my asking- does your therapist feel that you have abusive or anger issues? just wondering the professional take on this.

[royal]

Fayebelle:

 

I don't have abuser issues, she says. Again, this is the first time this has happened and I was blind drunk and not thinking clearly. But I may have some emotional ones that need exploring. It's still very early in the counselling.

[msrealdoll]

Royal, whether she comes back or not, you will be a better person for having gone through this. I think it's amazing that you're going to counseling and trying to work on your own issues.

 

You've come quite a long way in a very short time. You sound like you're really getting it together. Good luck!

[lurkaholic]

Royal,

 

I've read the whole thread (I promise) and here are my thoughts.

 

First, I am a little concerned by how hard you may have pushed her. You may remember it as being lighter/not as scary as it was. I'm only saying this because you said the bouncer threw you out. That makes me think that the bouncer perceived you as some sort of threat. Anyway, since both of you were drunk, your perceptions may be different from hers. Didn't you say that she remembers just dancing with the guy, not grinding? There's no way to say what really happened, though you might want to call up the bar, like her father did, and see what some impartial observers have to say. That way you'll know what you're dealing with.

 

Second, now that you are in counselling (yay!), here's a theme that I noticed from your posts that you might want to explore. Your relationship was "a dream" with no major arguments, and yet you had these issues about her exhibitionism which came to the surface in a nasty way when you were drunk. Do you think that maybe your relationship was so perfect because you (both of you, that is) were avoiding, or burying issues? If you do get back together, this might be something you both want to look at.

 

And also, it's possible that she has some buried issues with you as well that this incident brought to the surface. If you get a chance to talk to her, you might want to ask if it was the pushing alone that scared her (which it definitely could) or if it was the pushing combined with something else in her relationship.

 

Best of luck working out all of your issues.

[Midnight Magic]

Control the drinking and chances are this will not ever happen.

Things get out of control when there is too much consumption of alcohol.

 

Best of luck and I hope things work out for you in the end.

[royal]

msrealdoll: Yes, I will be a better person. Very lonely, but a better person. I heard from her yesterday. She says it's over between us and we will never get back together because she doesn't trust me. I told her that we never had any trust issues before and that if she has these concerns we could talk about them with a counsellor. Looks likes it over though I'm sad to report.

 

lurkaholic: I didn't push her hard. It was a shove on the shoulder and because she was very drunk she stubled somewhat. Regardless though, I caused her fear and mistrust by what I did. My friend who was right there confirms my perceptions as well. Again, it doesn't matter at this point. The bouncers never through me out. I left of my own choosing. They were coming over to check things out and chasing after me to ensure I left. The bouncer later on asked me to leave the cab she was in. I think it's because they are liable if anyone gets hurt in their establishment.

 

I see what your saying about the buried issues. Her message to me yesterday that she doesn't trust me came as a shocker. So, maybe there were issues she hads about me that she never shared. But really though, we had great communication. It's just fallen apart with this. She will only communicate via email and this leaves things open to miscommunication. As of yesterday, it looks like it's over though and we'll never have a chance to explore this.

 

 

Midnight Magic: I've quit drinking after this. I've been drinking since I was a teenager and from time to time had a tendency to binge drink. The fact that I was drunk when this happened has been a major eye-opener for me. Alcohol played a role in what happened,but wasn't the only factor. Thanks for your well wishes.