Marriage: The cause of divorce?

[NatoPMT]

if theres no marriage, there's no divorce. sounds simple enough.

 

A male friend was discussing his now broken marraige with me recently, he told me he regrets getting married to his now ex-wife because he believes that had they never got married, they'd still be together. he felt that getting married, for him, put too much pressure on them as a couple to stay together forever and that the fact they knew they could only be with each other had changed their relationship.

 

Does anyone else feel this is the case? what reasons could there be for this situation occurring? I believe that they were wrong for each other and this was subconsciously/consciously picked up and contributed to the feeling that marriage was an unnatural state for them. He believes they were absolutely right for each other, but the fact they actually got married put too much pressure on him to be half of a perfect couple

 

Would be interested to hear others experiences of this

 

Thanks, BB

[HokeyReligions]

I worked with a woman (Nell) who dated (Bill) and then lived with him. They were happy, and decided to marry. They were a happy couple for a while, then they had problems and divorced. Nell and Bill stayed away from each other for a while and each tried dating others - even married and had kids with others, but they were miserable. Nell and Bill started dating each other again (after they were each divorced). They eventually moved in with each other. They tried marriage and it failed again, so instead of breaking up totally, they divorced and resumed their relationship living together. They have been together something like 30 years, very happily un-married. That piece of paper made some kind of difference for them and they just couldn't handle it as a married couple. It had to do with independence and expectation as much as anything else. They expected different things from themselves--not just from each other--when they were married.

[Fayebelle]

What a wild story! You know I worry a lot about if I'll be able to live up to my expectations for a wife when I get married. I love my BF very much and want ot be perfect for him. It stresses me a lot sometimes and I have spoken to him since he and I try to discuss any concerns we have w/ our relationship. He tells me I'm the last person he'd want to marry if he wanted a so-called perfect wife. He told me my "quirky" nature is one of the things he loves best about me. But still- I put a lot of pressure on myself here and I can see how that would lead to probs later if you don't find a way to address that stress.

[Karlise13]

Well, I was friends with a woman at work who'd been with her boyfriend for close to 15 years.

They'd pulled through everything! They got sober together, survived her bout with cancer, his heart attack, poverty, you name it.

 

Then they got married.

 

She told me, "I don't know, we've been together since our twenties. Now we're in our late thirties, about to hit forty, I'm tired of saying MY BOYFRIEND. Everyone's bugging us to get married. So we're gonna do it."

 

Well, she said everything changed after that. She couldn't put her finger on it, but there seemed to be some slight psychological shift that made everything different. They started to fight a lot. Eight months after the wedding he'd moved out.

 

I don't know what the moral of the story here is.

 

I just know my BF and I are perfectly happy not being married. We think it's an anitquated institution

[CurlyIam]

I personally believe in marriage and I think I would be terribly miserable not to ever get married. Even if it fails. I want to have my shot at it. I want it all, the house, the husband, the dog, and at least two kids. I believe in marriage .

[msrealdoll]

My exhusband and I were together 9 years before we got married. My parents began pressuring us to marry, so we did. We believed we would be together forever, so why not?

 

Marriage changes something, though. I can't really put my finger on it. He got more serious, and we began to have less fun. We bought a house. I think maybe we started trying to live a cookie-cutter life, and it ruined everything.

 

Our marriage lasted just under 5 years. I wish I could go back in time-I'd never get married.

[moimeme]

I suspect some people may have subconscious firmly-set ideas of what marriage 'ought' to be, so once they are married, their expectations and behaviour change to suit their idea of marriage.

 

I don't know how you could mitigate against that, really. It's not marriage that ruins marriage. It's people that ruin marriage!

[Thinkalot]

I know that my image of myself as a 'wife' is different to my image as myself as a girlfriend. Even being engaged feels different somehow. But for me , it is a good change. Like being a solid team...and feeling secure. And being able to let every else out there know how strongly committed we are to each other. Because like it or not, people still often see marriage as that highest level of committment.

 

Curly...I believe in marriage too.

[NatoPMT]

Thanks for all your replies

 

It's not marriage that ruins marriage. It's people that ruin marriage!

 

Am interested in what your thoughts of that comment msrealdoll, & sorry you went through that. You said you felt pressured to get married, why hadnt you married before? is marriage something you didnt subscribe to before? Did you change at all or just your husband?

 

Do you think if someone is fundamentally against - or just even less for -marriage, getting married is more likely to create a 'reaction' after the marriage takes place?

 

slightly off original post topic, but if one partner is less inclined to marry because they see it as antiquated/redundant, but they still marry as their partner wishes it, then does this change the dynamic?

 

am writing this v quickly so hoping it makes sense.

[Karlise13]

Yes, I think if one partner doesn't really believe in marriage the marriage is less likely to work.

 

Just my opinion.

 

My friend who had the 15-year-long relationship and then a brief, failed marriage with the same partner said her BF was against marriage but did it to "make everyone else happy"

 

Obviously, he never felt comfortable with it.

 

Many people who choose to have alternative relationships (ANYTHING that is outside the norm) often feel disgruntled when they are pressured into conforming.

 

They may feel as if they are losing part of their identity.

 

They may feel angry that their partner has succumbed to 'keeping up with the Jonses' mentality

 

They may feel angry at themselves for caving to other people's expectations

[msrealdoll]

We never married before because we were content with how things were. My parents wanted to integrate us into their lives, and they felt much more comfortable with us being married.

I was a bit afraid to get married-we both were. But we thought we were being childish and superstitious by not wanting to get married. We came to feel that since we were committed to each other, marriage wouldn't change that. It made some things easier-taxes, insurance, etc. We decided it was the best thing.

 

I think that once we got married, my husband began to take our relationship more seriously. He was much more cautious about making decisions regarding finances. He became much more protective of me. He had some ideas of how a wife should act vs. a girlfriend.

 

I changed, too. I became more secure. I tended to overlook a lot of things-to ignore things he did that made me unhappy. After all, marriage is give and take. I began to feel lost in the marriage, though. I felt like my role of wife was erasing who I really was. It was like I became his wife, and was no longer an individual.

 

It may have been that we would have split up anyway. It may have just been part of the natural progression. But I really don't think so. We both stopped working on ourselves so much after marriage, and concentrated on our marriage. I think we both lost part of ourselves in it.

 

God, I hope this makes sense.

 

If one person is less inclined to be married, then they may blame future problems on the marriage. They may throw it up in the other's face. I think both should be totally committed to each other and the marriage before taking that step.

[NatoPMT]

Yes, I think if one partner doesn't really believe in marriage the marriage is less likely to work.

 

on the reverse, if one partner believes in marriage and the other doesnt, so the couple remain unmarried, the partner that wants marriage may also change, feeling resentments that they are not getting what they want

 

My friend who had the 15-year-long relationship and then a brief, failed marriage with the same partner said her BF was against marriage but did it to "make everyone else happy

 

will change that to for the sake of argument:

 

My friend who had the 15-year-long relationship and then a brief, failed marriage with the same partner said her BF was against marriage but did it to "make his girlfriend happy

 

If he hadnt, the relationship could still have failed as many people will not remain in relationships where their end goal of marriage is not on the cards. so damned if you do, damned if you dont. How do you deal with that?

 

I think that once we got married, my husband began to take our relationship more seriously. He was much more cautious about making decisions regarding finances.

 

i have read that often men see marriage as a platform to provide from, both financially and emotionally so this doesnt surprise me. obviously it didnt NEED to be that way. its his opinion of how he thought he should conduct himself in marriage. Msrealdoll, did you discuss your roles so you knew how the other felt about their 'position' in the relationship before your wedding or was it an unexpected development? could you have prepared for this happening? if you felt your identity was compromised, how could you have prevented that? did you keep your own surname? did you feel he was your husband as well as you being his wife?

 

If one person is less inclined to be married, then they may blame future problems on the marriage. They may throw it up in the other's face.

 

thats a good point.

 

Thanks all

[msrealdoll]

This is so interesting. I have been giving my marriage a lot of thought lately, and this is helping tremendously.

 

Big, when before we got married, we just thought things would pretty much stay the same. We knew some things would change, like being able to be on one or the others insurance. But as far as the disturbing things that did change, no, we didn't discuss them. I don't think we knew they would change.

 

I didn't keep my surname, and I ended up resenting that. I enjoy having my father's name. I changed it back as soon as possible after our divorce.

 

I believe the reasons for me beginning to feel lost were my fault. I tried, for the sake of the marriage, to keep things smooth. Sometimes, this meant giving in when I resented it. That was wrong and unfair of me, I know.

 

By the end of our marriage I had compromised my individuality out of the marriage. I told my husband he didn't have any idea who I was anymore, because I behaved in a way that made the marriage better, or so I thought. I know now it was the worst thing I could do. I should have stood up for myself more.

 

He was very hard to argue with, though. We got to a point that we argued a lot, and I wanted it to stop, so I started giving in.

[NatoPMT]

sorry for the delay, i have been caught up in an emotional disaster with my bf - triggered by the topic of this thread in sort so i havent really felt like discussing these issues, except to say i am rapidly turning my back on the idea of marriage myself. i am seeing more and more how pressure affects and contributes to the breakdown of partnerships and not just marriage, but pressure of commitment and how people react to labels. its almost textbook, like psychology by numbers. and how you react to someone else's commitment fears can be formulated to create the exact response you require - its left me feeling a bit manipulative, even thought i havent reacted any other way than the way i feel. if you feel a certain way, and that gets you what you want, and you know it will get you what you want, is that being manipulative? i dont know if i felt that way because its what i had to do to get what i wanted.

 

hopefully i'll be back on topic on monday when i feel less out of sorts.

[sinner]

It's not marriage that ruins marriage. It's people that ruin marriage!

 

 

So true: Marriage would be ideal without people mucking it up. That's why I recommend a moratorium on all marriages unless the couple is certified as Marriage-worthy by Dr. Phil or Oprah.

[kirkyswife]

I wonder what model people use these days to define the "perfect couple"?? I don't know why people stay together for 15 years living together divorce a year after they tie the knot - it makes no sense to me at all. I couldn't be with someone for years and years and not make a commitment to them and vice-versa but then again I believe in marriage - the happily ever after and divorce is not an option. I didn't get married on July 4, 1993 with the belief that if it didn't work out that we could always get a divorce - NO, I married my husband because I love him for better or worse, in sickness and in health, for richer and richer (or poorer), regardless of the years of separation, til death do us part to say well hey we just don't get along anymore. The only and I mean only thing that would cause me to divorce my husband is if he cheated on me. Other than that - I'm riding it until the wheels fall off - 11 years this year and we're going to make it last - counseling, prayer and a lot of hard work and dedication.

 

 

It's not marriage that ruins marriage. It's people that ruin marriage

 

Bighelm ABSOLUTELY CORRECT - that statement is right on target.

 

 

msrealdoll

 

Gosh I'm sorry your marriage ended the way that it did. But it seemed like deep down you didn't really want or need to be married for fulfillment. I was touched by your post because much of what you said reminds me of my mother

 

You stated:

 

I didn't keep my surname, and I ended up resenting that. I enjoy having my father's name. I changed it back as soon as possible after our divorce.

 

I read that as you started losing your sense of independence or self importance the day you got married it and that's always been interesting to me when observing other married women. When I first married I followed the trend and hyphenated my maiden and married names, a few years later I removed the hyphen and just had a double last name - this year I removed the maiden name altogether - when I married my husband OUR family was now established - doesn't mean that I don't still belong to my parents but MY husband is now MY first priority and nothing comes before him or between us.

 

You also said:

I think that once we got married, my husband began to take our relationship more seriously. He was much more cautious about making decisions regarding finances. He became much more protective of me. He had some ideas of how a wife should act vs. a girlfriend.

 

I changed, too. I became more secure. I tended to overlook a lot of things-to ignore things he did that made me unhappy. After all, marriage is give and take. I began to feel lost in the marriage, though. I felt like my role of wife was erasing who I really was. It was like I became his wife, and was no longer an individual. [/quote]

 

But here it's more clear that your ideologies on marriage hadn't been discussed prior to marriage and therefore expectations were formed from a lack of communication. This is my mother. When I was dating my husband I told him about a month or so into dating and after he tried to tell me to do something, that he is not now nor ever the boss of me and he will never tell me to do a dayum thing. I told him I don't like being told what to do, I want you to understand that I like who I am and I don't want you to change me because I will NOT change unless I feel it's necessary. I shared my feelings on my parents and what I despised and I told him that I would not allow anyone to have that kind of power over me. I told him that I am forthright,that I will speak my mind on any and everything but would never belittle or disrespect him in front of others but would not tolerate being belittled or disrespected either and would defend my honor if necessary. I'm extremely strong-willed and it takes a very confident, strong man to be with me. My husband is strong and confident and allows me to be an individual in our life partnership. I'm 50% of our partnership and I am not trying to be more than I can handle.

 

Finally I was quite moved by:

[quote]who I was anymore, because I behaved in a way that made the marriage better, or so I thought. I know now it was the worst thing I could do. I should have stood up for myself more.

 

I know my mother would have shared these sentiments had she divorced my opinionated, controlling, domineering father - instead 46 years later they live in the same dysfunctional marriage and astound their friends at their "staying power" - Yeah Right. I don't want to look back at 40 years in disgust at the subservient docile person I allow someone to mold me into. I want to be the sassy, strong-willed, intelligent, articulate, passionate, loyal, woman my husband respects, loves, cherishes for the woman that I continue to evolve into and my never ending love and dedication to him; our family; our goals. SOUNDS BIG sure but I guess that's where the "WORK" comes into marriage.

 

I hope that you are living a much more fulfilled life now that you have divorced - I shared this post with my husband a few moments ago and he amazed me by kissing me on the forehead and saying "Hey Babe, one of the reasons why I fell in love with you was because you are the only woman that has ever held my attention. He said you make me a better man and challenge my resources to find my destiny and leave my stamp on the world. But what he doesn't know (and I will share with him in a surprise picnic on the beach at sunset) is that my energy stems from a man who copes with my bipolar by bringing some of my biz plans *created during manic episodes* to fruition; by showing me what unconditional love truly is; by being my most valued and treasured best friend.

 

I don't expect Casablanca Lillies, breakfast in bed and hot bubble baths for the next 40 years - I know trying times are unavoidable but we want to be married to eachother and we respect the individual we married, I think we are headed in the right direction.

[moimeme]

Perhaps, Kirkyswife, the problem isn't with 'marriage' at all. What you two have sounds to me like the relationship marriage should be. However, people marry when they don't have that sort of relationship with that sort of person. They can't wait. They can't stand being alone. They are overcome with hormones or loneliness or the desire to have kids and so they find someone who is ok or tolerable or that they think they 'love' because they obsess about and marry that person.

 

They don't do the work of being a partner; rather each demands their mate do the work of being a partner and, if the mate disappoints by not living up to the unrealistic expectations the other has, the 'love' dies. Boom - marriage over.

 

I hope you stick around, Kirkyswife, and maybe even that your husband will post, too. I think that the opinions and ideas of folks who are doing it up right are just exactly what some folks would do well to hear.

[kirkyswife]

Aww thanks Moi - we're just trying to make it happen. I do agree much of the problem is the inability to clearly identify love opposed to lust, obsession, hormones etc. I ask the young ladies who I mentor or who' s children attend my daycare about Love and how they know when they are in love and/or when you know your partner is truly in love with you and amazingly the answers that I receive have absolutely nothing to do with the question that I asked - in fact, not one has been able to articulate what love is and how they know they are experiencing it.

 

I enjoy this site, it offers me a place to gain insight, offer suggestions/opinions and exposure to subjects that create discussions with my husband. I hope you all will let me stick around to continue learning about life and how folks are coping in it. I truly enjoy your insightful thought provoking posts and look forward to reading more from you as well.

 

Take care!

[msrealdoll]

kirkyswife, thanks for your post. I've been thinking a lot about my marriage lately-trying to gain some perspective. You've helped a lot.

 

I, too enjoy reading and posting here. It helps me to examine myself, and try to make changes that would be beneficial to me. Plus, any time you can help someone else, that's a huge bonus.

[Wolvesbaned]

Marriage does change something. It's the expectations, it's the pressure, it's the whole package that makes it so much easier to take each other for granted. Screw it! I would never marry again, even if some miraculous event occurred and it was with my husband, I wouldn't marry again. (I'm 3 months separated on the hard process to the big D).

 

If one person doesn't really believe in marriage that spells for even more trouble then when both are in it for the long haul. It's like agreeing that only one person does all the hard work, in the beginning. Imagine what type of torture would that be?

[Wolvesbaned]

BigBelm,

 

It can be easy to get your way. But when it all comes down to it, you want someone who wants it like you do. It's not just about love, separate that for now, marriage is commitment, it is for life. I hope you sorts things out and things go as you want it to.

 

I wish you the best.

[msrealdoll]

Originally posted by Wolvesbaned

It's not just about love

 

This is so true. I don't think it can be emphasized enough.

[NatoPMT]

Thanks Wolvesbanned. Everything is fine, i am trying to decide what is best for me, whether i want marriage and if i do want it, what are the real reasons for it. If i do want it, how can i give us the best chance of things working, how can i prepare myself, what do i think i will gain/lose from it.

 

The conversation i had last week wasnt triggered by mention of marriage at all - he closed down on me and reacted in fear of being hurt, not fear of committing, but we didnt have time to get to the bottom of things until the weekend. He said he was scared of being hurt or losing me to someone else.

 

Things are too early for me to consider marriage currently, we've touched on it and his basic response is, 'i dont really believe in marriage but if you want it we can talk about it and i could be persuaded'

 

i guess the 'persuasion' depends on what we both feel after discussing the points raised in this thread, plus our long term goals and what we want from life.

 

So effectively, we both feel it could be part of our future together, i am more weighted to marriage, he is less so but open minded. I have never felt the desire to get married before, and i am preparing my thoughts to ensure my reasons are right and he is the right one for me.

 

Thanks to everyone for replying, you've given me lots and lots to think about