confused

[rich_1517]

well enotalone is down so i am here.

 

i need advice and a good ear perhaps. i am still struggling. the girl i want to marry is still in my life. i could give you the whole run down but heres the breif.

 

she broke up with me, then took two months to "decide" if we were to be freinds or more.

 

she came back and said she sees me as a freind but lets date and see. she knows i am great for her but.. she wants to see smoking gone, diet coke gone and stable finances.

 

i was devasted at first and obsessing like mad. she had asked me to move in twice and i declined becuase she was becommming more removed intimately and wanted her to look at it. (this has ended all her relationships). (pre break up)

 

the dating was terrible, she wouldnt kiss, we did fun things but no talking no intimacy.

 

so i called it off and said this doesnt seem to be what you want. so then she starts calling all the time. i cave in and say "take me back" shes says no but lets keep dating. so i do.

 

since that time we have gone away twice, camping and to another city. but again she resists anything like xxx or serious kissing. she is watching i think to see the changes be permanent? im guessing becuase i dont understand anymore. its been five months since she left but she still wants to see me all the time, she is planning a camping trip with her son and i soon.

 

could it be the changes, or something else? i am confused at this point. she is trying on some levels and xxx is not in it but then it was missing before so i shouldnt expect it to return now so soon.

 

but this weekend was hard, i smoked and drank diet coke like a fiend, i am up against my own addictions and have to stop if she matters that much. im just afraid she feels nothing really anymore beyond freinds. i dont know what to do.

[StartingAgain]

End it. There's somthing terribly wrong here. Why would you want to be with a woman who refuses to have sex with you. You state this was an issue before you broke up.

 

Question: when the two of you goes out, who pays for it all?

[sportsloving]

You gave up your diet coke for her and why?

[StartingAgain]

Sportsloving, you make me laugh. Thanks.....

[rich_1517]

she is cautious and scared. is the why, she is used to seeing things end, divorces, cheating ex husband. she is afraid to let someone stay close for too long. yeah i can pick them.

 

sex is somethnig that is her main problem, its tied to the initmacy of her long term trust. i choose to be with her and it will always require me jumpstarting it. but i love her enough to let that one be.

 

the couple of months that this has taken is worth it when i consider losing her for good.

 

my fear is that she may lose respect for me hanging in there, thats death to a relationship.

 

not ready to end unfortunately, it would be so much easier if it was but this is the girl i want to marry.

 

diet coke and ciggarettes are a pain in the butt. try giving them up and see how bad the grip is. nicotine and aspertane were engineered to be addictive. it makes me really angry. they need to go anyway, money and health.

 

i am trying to play to her comfort zone because we do have a great time together. she knows she loves me and doesnt want to pursue anyone else. basically i giving unconditionally until she caves in.

 

but i may have blown it yesterday, i read your posts at a time when i was down, weekends with exs you are trying to get back can drain you. at least it does me. so i was feeling pretty crappy. i called her and said this is very hard sometimes, that i love you and i am patient but i need you to help me be patient.

 

fact is i know the game i am playing its no pressure, and i just applied pressure.

 

the idea is not complicated. let them find their own comfort zone with you there unconditionnally until they realise they want you very badly. she does not want to lose me, but hasnt stepped back over the line.

 

i feel really bad that i showed all those feelings yesterday. yes they are real, but winning over a lost love requires being slightly aloof, confident and accepting, and showing you can come back from the punches. they dont see the punches, thats the catch, we want something, they dont see it and its better they dont. the idea is as i said simple, its supposed to be their idea to get back together.

 

she knows i date others, which i also said yesterday i stopped doing. as i said yesterday wasnt my best.

[StartingAgain]

This is very important, so please don't just blow eith off with an "oh but I love her so." ANY and EVERY problem you have prior to marriage will become much, much worse after marriage. This is absulutely true and don't ever foget it. You marry this woman and you will regret it within months, maybe even weeks. Read your last post again and be honest with yourself. This woman is not ready for any relationship whatsoever. She has not healed from her failed marriage and it doesn't sound as if she'd handling that break up in a healthy way. After you marry her, you won't be able to jumpstart the sex. There will be no sex.

 

I don't know what's up with her problem with your smoking. If she's anti-smoking, she shouldn't have hooked up with a smoker. And if drinking diet coke "like a fiend" is the worst thing in the world to her, she needs some Valium or something. What I see here is a woman hwo is actively trying to destroy your somewhat fragile self-esteem

 

You are making her "trust issues" yours. Why would you do this? Don't ever try to shoulder someone else's emotional baggage. They have to do that themselves. And until they get a grip on it, they have no business in a relationship. All they can do is hurt others..

 

And another thing. My ex had "trust issues" because her ex-H had "cheated on her." So I tip-toed around her trust issues for years and accepted that this is why she turned into a cold, unloving, unaffectionate roommate who insisted on having everything her way without question as soon as we were married. The sex dwindled off to nearly nothing as well. I don't know if her ex really cheated on her or not, but if he did, I understand why now. But the kicker is that she cheated on me with an old boy friend and I found out later that she's cheated on her husband with the same guy. So her "trust issues" were bullsh*t.

 

I should have sent her and her "trust issues" packing.

[rich_1517]

hmm, ok i wont blow it off with "i love her so" and yes shouldering her trust issues long term will never work nor would sex. we had sex before the break up but it required me to initiate, thas what i mean. she has been more then willing once i do that. that trade off i can live with.

 

my hit list of needs that must be met are these and she knows this

 

- be willing to discus the relationship and take the risk of hurting feelings to live in truth

(thats why we broke up)

 

- be willing to be more affectionate physcally

(we made a lot of progress before and i was ok)

 

fact is when together these things are true

 

- we have a great time

- we both share burdens and responsibilities

- we love each other a lot

- we talk very openly once it starts

- we balance each other out - financially, intellectually, spiritually, family issues, fun, freindship

 

i have chosen a very hard case in this woman. but once she comitts she stays that way. she left becuase i pressured her to change when she asked me to move in twice. she wants more kids and to move forward. she is very tough.

 

i dont know sometimes if i am a fool to still want her, but i have dated many women and im a pretty good catch. i havent seen matches like this very often.

 

but let me try here to see it from outside. i am a man in love with a woman who is unsure. thats the bottom line, so i choose to try and convince her i am the choice she wants to make.

 

the diet coke and smoking? she isnt pushing on those now, i am. those two things will mean i am dead early, im older then her by 12 years (42 and 30) so she has those concerns. i cant argue with that.

 

normally she doesnt need me to fix her emotional baggage. i always knew if we broke up it would be like this. the major change for me is when she came back she knew she could no longer keep her feelings inside and that she would have to change. so i saw/see hope.

 

i hope you are wrong about what happens if we get back together. her son and i are very close (hes 7) and the three of us are naturals as a group.

 

she is over the ex, no its about her being afraid everyone leaves eventually so she plays it safe. did i make a pretty crappy choice in that. absolutely.

[StartingAgain]

She fears being abandoned by her man and she does the one thing that will absolutely gaurantee that her man will leave her: withhold sex. Your posts are contradictory. Your relationship with her is contradictory. And sounds very unhealthy.

[rich_1517]

are you saying your opnion is she is withholding sex intentionally?

 

sorry are you a man or woman, it would help me to know. intimacy for women in my experience runs pretty high as an issue these days, sex drive for women just doesnt run as high. now if you are then asking maybe its me? no, history for me is pretty good in that department. but i have found that emotionally balanced women (not overly needy, not overly removed) dont have high sex drives.

 

contradictory? absolutely, im chasing someone who hasnt comitted to me.

 

she knows once we sleep together its a committment, shes old school about that. and i know it, she knows i know. so its a mute point. sex will come once a decision does.

 

unhealthy, yes and no. these days its easier for people to give up. but you know its a lot harder to find something new. no one wants to work on relationships as much, so they die, and we move on and then that one dies. relationships thrive on needs being met, but that cant happen if people dont work on it. so yeah right now i am working on it alone and it sucks, but i made my choice.

[StartingAgain]

Of course she'd withholding it intentionally. Look, the two of you were together. You had sex then, though you had to be the one to initiate it (a bad sign). Then she breaks it off with you. Then the two of you get back together, but this time without sex. Sex=commitment to her you say. This didn't seem to be a problem before. Why is it now.

 

She can't be too old school, since she's only 30 years of age. And where'd she get the idea that sex=commitment? I know a lot of old schoolers and they don't believe such a thing. They don't believe you jump in the sack with anyone, but they also know that sex doesn't mean you commit the rest of you life either.

 

Read the last paragraph of your last post again. Before you had to drive the intimacy. Now your trying working on this relationship and it sucks. Of course it sucks. You can't have a relationship if she's not on board. you say no one wants to work on a relationship anymore. Well, you're working, but she isn't. You also say but you know its a lot harder to find something new" Is that's what's going on here? You are afraid to go out and find something new, so you are clinging to what you have now even though you know it's not going to work?

 

I'm not trying to beat you up, Rich; only trying to get you to think a bit differely. You never did answer the question I asked you in my first post: when the two of you go out, who pays for it all?

[rich_1517]

we both pay. she will offer to cover things completely sometimes and i say no. fact is she borrowed money to help me when times were hard. i used to make a lot and then got crushed like so many people who are just getting it back together now. so im not paying more then my share at all. i wish that i could take her really nice places but that isnt in the budget.

 

as to the rest of it. yes i am doing the work. i want it back clearly so i am stuck with that. but the work is only showing up and doing things together. the compromise is my feelings, thats the work alone for me. so yes without a comittment to work on it together i am alone in it and it does suck.

 

sex? old school meaning, she doesnt do it lightly. six guys in her life so far. withholding? maybe you are right, that she knows if she goes over that line we are not just freinds, and she knows all the rest makes us solid, so she kind of runs out of reasons for herself. if you consider a relationship is based on freindship, respect and passion, and we have a real passionate moment, she would have a problem on her hands, and i think she is afraid of that. she is afraid to go back to being stuck in a relationship if she is unsure becuase she stays once she does. i was the first relationship she ever broke off.

 

trust, trust, trust. cant escape it. but the irony? its five months now and a week doesnt pass where we dont interact. so how far has anyone really gotten? i cut her off completely for a month and ended up hearing from her a lot, (i miss you, can we do this, can we do that) and i said no though it crushed me. then i realised i still wanted her back so i said ok.

 

am i answering your questions or just rambling? have a head cold.

[rich_1517]

your points are well taken. there are problems with this relationship no doubt. all have some. but it works overall when it works.

 

but about your question of am i afraid to let and find something new? yes i am. im at the age where i am tired of looking, i feel i found her and want that security of knowing that I have someone i can grow old with and raise kids.

 

will i find someone new, sure. i do ok in the romance department, for me its staying steadily employed and cleaning up my health stuff, fact is i want a woman who will think long term and kids those things have to happen, it sjust taking time right now.

[sportsloving]

I just can't see you having the happily ever after ending that you want unless a lot of things are changed and worked out. I do believe that your gal needs to seek out some counseling.

 

I think you should really decide if it is your responsibility to take on all of her problems, try to play Super Hero, and know (KNOW) that she is doing this as a bit of a game to you.

 

I am sorry, I have read all the posts and it just seems to be a healthier idea for you to walk away and start to heal.

 

Good luck to you

[rich_1517]

well i am torn with doubts. no i dont think i should take on all her problems. im not, only trying to keep the door open. being understanding about sex is one thing, carrying the weight of the emotional part is not ok.

 

but today i am very tired from it. i have plenty on my life plate as it is, and frankly i feel i screwed up big time by sowing im needy on monday. crap i gave a lot away and confidence and self respect just took a major hit.

 

she is either running like mad right now, doing nothing at all or maybe she realises that she has to show up or let go.

 

as to me walking away? today i wish i could. but im not ready yet, i learned already that doing it before im ready is bad.

 

im just having a really bad week right now.

[sportsloving]

(((((((((((((((((rich_1517))))))))))))))))))))) There you go, now have a good week

 

I know all about not being able/ready to let go. Sometimes no matter how "bad" it might seem, we figure if we stick it out long enough, love enough, support enough ... the happily ever after happens. And sometimes it just doesn't

 

I just want you to know that if you need a shoulder, you have plenty here ... and if you do stay or walk away, no matter what happens, you are never alone

 

Take care of yourself.