Just been burned...

[trader]

It wasn't directed at you - I think you're doing pretty good considering the circumstances! .

 

Pinch me! Thank you 2sunny. That was a nice thing to say. I will let it go this time, but don't let it happen again.

[stillwater]

It wasn't directed at you - I think you're doing pretty good considering the circumstances!

 

It was directed at Someday's non helpful post... Full of nothingness.

 

Never underestimate the "somethingness" of a hug or a pat on the back. Sometimes support is needed just as much as advice.

[JustJoe]

Trader, If you can get the time off, maybe a little time-out for yourself would be healthy. Take a long weekend, go to a ballgame, fishing, visit family or friends, something YOU like to do. Detox a little and occupy your mind and body with something other than your WW. Your WW and marriage and affair problems will be there when you get home, right? So don't think about them, and take some time to yourself. Remember what George Clinton says, "free your mind and your ass will follow". Yep, no doubt your situation sucks ass, but you seem like a nice guy, so maybe you can actually enjoy a few days without stress. What do you think?

[trader]

Trader, If you can get the time off, maybe a little time-out for yourself would be healthy. Take a long weekend, go to a ballgame, fishing, visit family or friends, something YOU like to do. Detox a little and occupy your mind and body with something other than your WW. Your WW and marriage and affair problems will be there when you get home, right? So don't think about them, and take some time to yourself. Remember what George Clinton says, "free your mind and your ass will follow". Yep, no doubt your situation sucks ass, but you seem like a nice guy, so maybe you can actually enjoy a few days without stress. What do you think?

 

All good suggestions. Actually, I have a lot of time. I am retired. That can be good and bad. For entertainment, I go to work! lol. My brother in law owns a high end car stereo shop. I go there learn the techniques and make a couple of bucks. Its fun. I also started going to church again about a month or so before d-day. That also helps.

 

Still, she moved out a year ago. This has been a long year that I have put off having fun. So you are giving salient advice.

 

Strangly, the wife gets a long weekend in 10 days and she wants to do a short road trip together. If I can keep from pissing her off too much, maybe we will do that.

[trader]

I can't tell the writers to this thread how much your support, admonition, frankness, directness, concern, and quick responce has meant to me. I couldn't have received anywhere near the help, right when I need it, from the most trained therapist.

 

Really, the synergy of a wide range of opinions and styles is incredibliity effective for me. I laugh at 2sunny's style. It is really unique.

 

And Bellechica. I have no bitterness to others who have stepped over the line. Especially if they have remorse.

 

Lots of others, too. I only mention these two, because they have drawn fire. Lots of others have helped. You don't realize that I am benefitting BECAUSE all writers are being themselves, just as they are.

 

Thanks.

[2sunny]

All good suggestions. Actually, I have a lot of time. I am retired. That can be good and bad. For entertainment, I go to work! lol. My brother in law owns a high end car stereo shop. I go there learn the techniques and make a couple of bucks. Its fun. I also started going to church again about a month or so before d-day. That also helps.

 

Still, she moved out a year ago. This has been a long year that I have put off having fun. So you are giving salient advice.

 

Strangly, the wife gets a long weekend in 10 days and she wants to do a short road trip together. If I can keep from pissing her off too much, maybe we will do that.

 

You're worried about pissing HER off? And SHE'S the one who cheated twice? This seems backwards. She shokd be the one worried about HER behavior right now. You should be busy finding new hobbies and many things that bring you happiness. That would be awesome to hear you are bringing new interests and outlet that are creative into your daily life. Take some classes - maybe art classes...etc!

 

Dang - go have fun! Have LOTS of fun! I do think many trips away on your own will help clear the mind.

[trader]

You're worried about pissing HER off? And SHE'S the one who cheated twice? This seems backwards. She shokd be the one worried about HER behavior right now. You should be busy finding new hobbies and many things that bring you happiness. That would be awesome to hear you are bringing new interests and outlet that are creative into your daily life. Take some classes - maybe art classes...etc!

 

Dang - go have fun! Have LOTS of fun! I do think many trips away on your own will help clear the mind.

 

Not worried dear. Just stating a road trip will obviously be contingent on her dispostion. I actually have lots of hobbies and fun things to do.

[2sunny]

I hope she's concerned about YOUR feelings more than you are concerned about her feelings.

 

That might bring some better balance to the marriage.

[turnera]

trader, have you ever been to this website? I just think it's an amazing place for men, lots of great wisdom and learning: www.bettermen.org

[Bellechica]

You might also check out Marriage Counseling – Free Marriage Help from Marriage Fitness with Mort Fertel

[JustJoe]

Not worried dear. Just stating a road trip will obviously be contingent on her dispostion. I actually have lots of hobbies and fun things to do.

I think that this is one of your biggest problems, Trader. You need to develope a different mind-set concerning your wife. Being more assertive will help you , in the long run. I would NOT go with her for a trip, or anywhere else. You have been acting too much like a doormat.

[trader]

BTW, your characterization of Bellechica as being remorseful isn't true or accurate. A truly remorseful person would be honest and open with the person that they wronged and make restitution. Unfortunately, Belle is, IMO , still selfishly putting her own needs ahead of those of her husband and children.

 

Everyone is intitled to opinions. I disagree with yours. There is more to this equation than just the H and WW. There are children. A revelation that ended in divorce can be a tremendous blow to their lives.

 

Keeping a dark secret like this is not just what you think. It is a burden. A heavy weight. I am sure Belle would like to come clean. She would feel better.

 

Honesty is important between couples, but sometimes for the better of the corporation, there is a proper time and place. Belle knows her life better than you or me. Let her decide when is best.

[William]

I was just contemplating posting again in this thread to remain on-topic when a report comes in swinging that contemplation to action. I'll politely request that the topic discussion remain focused on the thread starter's marriage and marital issues and that discussion of other member's dynamics be excluded. From this point on, such discussion, by anyone, will be subject to infraction. I hope I'm clear on that point.

[trader]

I think that this is one of your biggest problems, Trader. You need to develope a different mind-set concerning your wife. Being more assertive will help you , in the long run. I would NOT go with her for a trip, or anywhere else. You have been acting too much like a doormat.

 

My biggest problem... Was allowing my wife to feel alone for so long she sought others. She is not a serial cheater. Not as far as I know, or even suspect in the slightest. Really! Do you think a man's role in a marriage has no bearing on the happiness or conduct of the wife?

 

Sometimes I think, by the tone of this board, that people think a marriage vow is all that is needed to keep a marriage together. A hundred years ago when women had no vote, no rights, and in divorce, no property or children it might have been so. Not now. People only stay together by choice. Marriages fail all the time for reasons other than cheating. Sometimes, probally most of the time, there were problems that led a wife feeling she wanted out and cheating was a way to detach herself emotionally from her H.

 

I am not saying I am 100% the problem. I am not excusing her act. Far from it. I took a higher road. But I take accountabilty for when problems were going on in her and I couldn't find a solution, I drew into my cave. Stiffened my face to the wall. That did not help. So the main solution offered by most on this forum is to continue to ostracize her for her evil act. To further distance myself. To take NO action? I think not.

 

I will not be a doormat, but I will not be a closed door, either.

[JustJoe]

I agree with your sentiment, Trader, and of course respect your opinion. But I would also like to point out that you seem to be doing most, if not all, of the heavy lifting, in trying to repair your marriage, and seem to think that defering to your wife and allowing her to set the agenda is going to, in some way, mitigate your past mistakes. Your heart's in the right place, but your actions are confusing the issue. You need to demand the same consideration from her , that you are willing tgo give. Anything less than equity is a recipe for failure.

[The Blue Knight]

Everyone is intitled to opinions. I disagree with yours. There is more to this equation than just the H and WW. There are children. A revelation that ended in divorce can be a tremendous blow to their lives.

 

Keeping a dark secret like this is not just what you think. It is a burden. A heavy weight. I am sure Belle would like to come clean. She would feel better.

 

Honesty is important between couples, but sometimes for the better of the corporation, there is a proper time and place. Belle knows her life better than you or me. Let her decide when is best.

 

Thank you Trader for summing up what many of us have said repeatedly.

[The Blue Knight]

My biggest problem... Was allowing my wife to feel alone for so long she sought others. She is not a serial cheater. Not as far as I know, or even suspect in the slightest. Really! Do you think a man's role in a marriage has no bearing on the happiness or conduct of the wife?

 

Sometimes I think, by the tone of this board, that people think a marriage vow is all that is needed to keep a marriage together. A hundred years ago when women had no vote, no rights, and in divorce, no property or children it might have been so. Not now. People only stay together by choice. Marriages fail all the time for reasons other than cheating. Sometimes, probally most of the time, there were problems that led a wife feeling she wanted out and cheating was a way to detach herself emotionally from her H.

 

I am not saying I am 100% the problem. I am not excusing her act. Far from it. I took a higher road. But I take accountabilty for when problems were going on in her and I couldn't find a solution, I drew into my cave. Stiffened my face to the wall. That did not help. So the main solution offered by most on this forum is to continue to ostracize her for her evil act. To further distance myself. To take NO action? I think not.

 

I will not be a doormat, but I will not be a closed door, either.

Very nicely summarized Trader. Like Sandie, you recognized your roll in this. And like her, you're wise enough not to excuse the affair, but you do take some responsibility as you look back and realize this may have been preventable had different decisions been made.

 

It does take an insightful and self-reflecting individual who seeks to salvage their marriage to realize that they often played a part, even if it was a small part, to create just the right atmosphere for an affair to occur.

[2sunny]

My biggest problem... Was allowing my wife to feel alone for so long she sought others. She is not a serial cheater. Not as far as I know, or even suspect in the slightest. Really! Do you think a man's role in a marriage has no bearing on the happiness or conduct of the wife?

 

Sometimes I think, by the tone of this board, that people think a marriage vow is all that is needed to keep a marriage together. A hundred years ago when women had no vote, no rights, and in divorce, no property or children it might have been so. Not now. People only stay together by choice. Marriages fail all the time for reasons other than cheating. Sometimes, probally most of the time, there were problems that led a wife feeling she wanted out and cheating was a way to detach herself emotionally from her H.

 

I am not saying I am 100% the problem. I am not excusing her act. Far from it. I took a higher road. But I take accountabilty for when problems were going on in her and I couldn't find a solution, I drew into my cave. Stiffened my face to the wall. That did not help. So the main solution offered by most on this forum is to continue to ostracize her for her evil act. To further distance myself. To take NO action? I think not.

 

I will not be a doormat, but I will not be a closed door, either.

 

I would suggest reading co dependent no more by Beattie - I do think you seem somewhat tangled up in her and a bit confused about what is her responsibility and what is your responsibility in this relationship.

 

You can't do it FOR her... You may want to make it easier for her - but that is really hers to do.

 

She needs to get healthy - then offer her healthy self into the union... That's why she has work to do - and hats why you can't do that FOR her. And making things easier for her at times makes it easy for her to avoid further what she really needs to face in order for HER to grow.

 

She needs change. She needs to find out why she cheated. What she can change to not consider cheating as her solution ever again.

 

That is hard and painful. But IF she won't do the work - there's no reason to be seeing her. The. You're just rewarding bad behavior.

 

Yep - its my opinion - and yep, I have experience that shows when a cheating spouse is willing to do anything to change - it can be a happy union after the work is done... But watching her closely while she goes through it is difficult - at best - and you may hinder or alter what she needs to DO to get there if you are involved along the way.

 

In the end - either she want YOU and ONLY YOU - or she doesn't! That's the bottom line.

 

I still think you believe YOU need to BE THERE for her in order for HER to NOT CHEAT - and there's NO TRUST in that mindset. And that's why I think your approach is backwards.

 

IF she the type to cheat - she's gonna cheat! And IF that's her core being - THEN YOU SHOULDN'T WANT THAT FOR YOURSELF ANYWAY!

[JustJoe]

Trader is wise to understand his responsibility for a portion of the marital issues, but he has NO responsibility for the affair. That belongs exclusively to his WW. One constant theme here on LS is that BS'S who, from a sense of their own guilt about the marriage problems and desire to "fix", things, are too lenient on the WS. Reinforcing and to some extent validating the cheaters' perception that they arent' exclusively to blame for the affair. Reasonable actions are often construed as weakness by a WS. This doesn't allow for any material change in the WS dishonest behavior, and usually end up doing more harm to the marriage than good. Marital problems and re-action to an infidelity are two separate issues, and should be dealt with as such.

[nofool4u]

My biggest problem... Was allowing my wife to feel alone for so long she sought others.

 

 

 

I am not excusing her act.

 

Ya, sort of, you are. Look, take responsibility for your role in the marriage. Take NONE in her decision to cheat.

 

I fear that you will coddle her and show her that all she has to do is make you think cheating can happen again if you don't act exactly how she wants you to.

 

Again, work on the marriage, but don't get sucked into the thinking that if you don't act exactly how she wants that you need to bend over backwards to keep her from cheating. Be an open book, but don't let her wrap you around her finger either with the fear that you need to be at her beckon call to keep her from cheating again.

[nofool4u]

Trader is wise to understand his responsibility for a portion of the marital issues, but he has NO responsibility for the affair.

 

Exactly, but I get the feeling he does feel responsible for her affair.

[The Blue Knight]

Trader is wise to understand his responsibility for a portion of the marital issues, but he has NO responsibility for the affair. That belongs exclusively to his WW. One constant theme here on LS is that BS'S who, from a sense of their own guilt about the marriage problems and desire to "fix", things, are too lenient on the WS. Reinforcing and to some extent validating the cheaters' perception that they arent' exclusively to blame for the affair. Reasonable actions are often construed as weakness by a WS. This doesn't allow for any material change in the WS dishonest behavior, and usually end up doing more harm to the marriage than good. Marital problems and re-action to an infidelity are two separate issues, and should be dealt with as such.

Joe, when my ex-wife cheated I can honestly tell you she didn't have a good reason. She wasn't mistreated. I was a reliable working husband who was good to she and the kids. I had no vices. I didn't drink very often or very much. I don't gamble. I don't have any deviance's. I was what I'd call the model suburban husband for the most part.

 

My ex-wife had depression issues which showed up about year five or six of our marriage. She began taking Prozac. I didn't agree with it and frankly, I didn't even understand her depression but I let her handle it as she sought. We had good lives with good dual incomes and three healthy kids so in my mind, what's to be depressed about? In additional to the depression, she was just an individual who was never content and I think this went back to childhood. I can't explain it, because again, it makes no sense to me because I'm a content person.

 

My point is simply this. If I had tried some different courses of action at that time maybe the affair could have been avoided. I doubt it to be honest. But my way of dealing with her was to not pay much attention to her behaviors because I believed it fed the behaviors and in some ways, just created more "attention needs" from her.

 

Am I to blame for her affair? Nope, not at all. She did it and she knew it was wrong. BUT, I think that given her personality I maybe should have been a bit more proactive about staying on top of her issues better and monitoring them and paying more respect to her "attention needs" than I did.

 

I'll never know for sure. I'm just suggesting that like Trader, Sandie, and others who come here, that often, there are factors that the spouse ignores or contributes too, in some odd or inadvertent way, and it's important to recognize those things I believe.

 

Because of that experience I'm far more likely to pay attention to my current wife's needs even though they are completely different individuals.

[2sunny]

Whether you're paying attention to HER OR NOT shouldn't have ANYbearing on whether SHE CHOOSES to cheat - or not.

 

That is what SHE needs to look at!

 

Why does SHE need validation and attention from OTHERS? That's not good balance or a healthy mindset.

 

Sure - its a bonus and is nice - but it has no bearing on YOU providing THAT FOR HER!

 

Either she's gonna be faithful no matter what - or she's not! You can't DO it for her.

[The Blue Knight]

Whether you're paying attention to HER OR NOT shouldn't have ANYbearing on whether SHE CHOOSES to cheat - or not.

 

That is what SHE needs to look at!

 

Why does SHE need validation and attention from OTHERS? That's not good balance or a healthy mindset.

 

Sure - its a bonus and is nice - but it has no bearing on YOU providing THAT FOR HER!

 

Either she's gonna be faithful no matter what - or she's not! You can't DO it for her.

Because when you're married Sunny, you're supposed to look out for one another. Sometimes that lack of proper attention or failing to meet your spouses needs becomes the formula for cause and effect. The individual who cheats may not even be planning to cheat. They just walk into a situation that presents itself and that combined with some unhappy home issues leads to an affair. It becomes the perfect storm. It's called real life.

[trader]

I take some responcibility to what occurred within the marriage. I take no responcibility for what occurred outside the marriage. I am focused like a laser beam on this principle.

 

Also, the wife could have done a lot of things differently before the A occurred. She is coming to realize that. How long does therapy take for some people? Days? Weeks? Months? or much longer. I must have realistic expectations. She knows that one wrong move towards an affair at this point, and it is a deal breaker for me. She took her ad down from the match site. So far, she has not crossed that line. If she does, then she can have what she wants, but she won't have me. I accept that.

 

If she asks me to spend the weekend with her and do some fun, she is not asking anyone else. I can take that as NOT good enough, or good enough for now. All I am saying is yes. That sounds like a move on her part, in the right direction.