Just been burned...

[JustJoe]

I agree that it does seem like a baby step in the right direction, but you also must be on your guard that you don't read into it anything more than that.

[JustJoe]

Joe, when my ex-wife cheated I can honestly tell you she didn't have a good reason. She wasn't mistreated. I was a reliable working husband who was good to she and the kids. I had no vices. I didn't drink very often or very much. I don't gamble. I don't have any deviance's. I was what I'd call the model suburban husband for the most part.

 

My ex-wife had depression issues which showed up about year five or six of our marriage. She began taking Prozac. I didn't agree with it and frankly, I didn't even understand her depression but I let her handle it as she sought. We had good lives with good dual incomes and three healthy kids so in my mind, what's to be depressed about? In additional to the depression, she was just an individual who was never content and I think this went back to childhood. I can't explain it, because again, it makes no sense to me because I'm a content person.

 

My point is simply this. If I had tried some different courses of action at that time maybe the affair could have been avoided. I doubt it to be honest. But my way of dealing with her was to not pay much attention to her behaviors because I believed it fed the behaviors and in some ways, just created more "attention needs" from her.

 

Am I to blame for her affair? Nope, not at all. She did it and she knew it was wrong. BUT, I think that given her personality I maybe should have been a bit more proactive about staying on top of her issues better and monitoring them and paying more respect to her "attention needs" than I did.

 

I'll never know for sure. I'm just suggesting that like Trader, Sandie, and others who come here, that often, there are factors that the spouse ignores or contributes too, in some odd or inadvertent way, and it's important to recognize those things I believe.

 

Because of that experience I'm far more likely to pay attention to my current wife's needs even though they are completely different individuals.

I truly do understand your feelings that maybe if You had done this or if you had done that, that maybe the A wouldn't have happened, but you need to realize that every person must own their own actions, and never moreso than with something as destructive (self destructive too) as infidelity. Your WW was self-aware enough to seek treatment for her depression, wasn't she? Perhaps her treatment was the wrong one, but that isn't really your call to make, is it? I do make allowances for childhood experiences as most other posters do, but when do you stop making those excuses and fulfill your responsibility as a wife or husband? The bottom line is that there is no such thing as an unwitting affair. At some level the WS knew it was terribly wrong, but chose to do it anyway. This is NEVER the BS'S issue.

[Bellechica]

Trader, it does sound like she is taking some action. I am glad. I also think it is good that you both are working on communicating better.

It doesn't appear to me that you are checking up on her or wanting to be there for her to keep her from having another A. It seems to me that you want to be there for her because you love her and want you M to work.

 

You mentioned earlier that many women cheat because they have given up on the M. It does appear that your W had an exit affair, but then your situation changed and she decided that she wanted you back.

 

What reasons has she given you for wanting to work it out with you apart from her feeling bad about you losing health insurance?

[2sunny]

Because when you're married Sunny, you're supposed to look out for one another. Sometimes that lack of proper attention or failing to meet your spouses needs becomes the formula for cause and effect. The individual who cheats may not even be planning to cheat. They just walk into a situation that presents itself and that combined with some unhappy home issues leads to an affair. It becomes the perfect storm. It's called real life.

 

I know that part.

 

But at what point does/will she show action to repair ALL the damage SHE caused?

 

What is their NEW AGREEMENT? HOW is SHE showing EVIDENCE that she INTENDS to repair the damage and REPAIR what is broken INSIDE her core being to the point that SHE KNOWS she won't cheat again no matter how tempted? What if Trader got horribly sick -long term - would he worry she would cheat again?

 

And I'm keeping in mind she cheated TWICE or THREE TIMES...

 

This isn't an ooopsie situation - she INTENDED to cheat and therefore it was calculated knowing she would hurt Trader.

 

What is she gonna change?

 

An invite for a trip doesn't make everything all ok...

 

SHE'S had plenty of time to get herself to a counseling session this week - has she gone yet? This would show action and intent to work on HER issues!

[trader]

What reasons has she given you for wanting to work it out with you apart from her feeling bad about you losing health insurance?

 

Feeling bad about me losing my health insurance only kept her from filing for divorce. It had no bearing on whether she wanted to be with me or not.

 

What changed everything is I put myself back in the picture and woke up latent feelings, that were dying, quite frankly.

[trader]

Because when you're married Sunny, you're supposed to look out for one another. Sometimes that lack of proper attention or failing to meet your spouses needs becomes the formula for cause and effect. The individual who cheats may not even be planning to cheat. They just walk into a situation that presents itself and that combined with some unhappy home issues leads to an affair. It becomes the perfect storm. It's called real life.

 

You get it!

[trader]

And I'm keeping in mind she cheated TWICE or THREE TIMES...

 

This isn't an ooopsie situation - she INTENDED to cheat and therefore it was calculated knowing she would hurt Trader.

 

 

OK, just to keep facts straight. If you want to think of this as three affairs, fine. I think of it as one affair that advanced through two guys, up to, but not including guy#3. This all occured over two months. I got her attention while she was moving from #2 to #3. 1 and two were fantasies. #3 guy is the most like me.

Edited May 10, 2012 by trader

[JustJoe]

And I'm keeping in mind she cheated TWICE or THREE TIMES...

 

This isn't an ooopsie situation - she INTENDED to cheat and therefore it was calculated knowing she would hurt Trader.

 

QUOTE]

 

OK, just to keep facts straight. If you want to think of this as three affairs, fine. I think of it as one affair that advanced through two guys, up to, but not including guy#3. This all occured over two months. I got her attention while she was moving from #2 to #3. 1 and two were fantasies. #3 guy is the most like me.

And this isn't making excuses for her? How so? She doesn't even have the lame excuse of a ONS. This was calculated, repeated betrayal, and no amount of soft-soaping will make it any different. You pay lip-service, saying that you don't excuse the affair, but you have defended her and excused her actions from the first post. Posters are trying to show you that you desperately need to stand up for yourself and hold her accountable for PROVING that her desire for reconciliation is real and what concrete steps SHE is going to take to prevent another affair. 2sunny has asked you these questions and you either defend her or ignore his posts. Until her accountability is your primary concern and you stop excusing her lack of remorse, I don't see how anybody can help your situation. All you have to do is visit other websites that deal with infidelity, and you would see that your situation isn't all that rare, and that the actions demanded of a WS are far, far, greater and more comprehensive than you are asking of your wife. I wish you luck, because I believe you are going to need all you can get.

[JustJoe]

Because when you're married Sunny, you're supposed to look out for one another. Sometimes that lack of proper attention or failing to meet your spouses needs becomes the formula for cause and effect. The individual who cheats may not even be planning to cheat. They just walk into a situation that presents itself and that combined with some unhappy home issues leads to an affair. It becomes the perfect storm. It's called real life.

This is what you call reality? So if you are having marital problems, and you are walking down the street. BAM!! You end up in an affair? Are you serious? And this isn't an excuse? I'm sorry BK, but you have a far different view of real life than I do. There is no such thing as an accidental affair. Affairs are planned deceptions. Edited May 10, 2012 by JustJoe

[JustJoe]

I honestly do wish you all of the luck in the world, Trader. I am not able to help you and so will go somewhere else.

[woinlove]

This is what you call reality? So if you are having marital problems, and you are walking down the street. BAM!! You end up in an affair? Are you serious? And this isn't an excuse? I'm sorry BK, but you have a far different view of real life than I do. There is no such thing as an accidental affair. Affairs are planned deceptions.

 

I agree with this completely. But often part of that planned deception is deceiving yourself. That's what allows people to say "it just happened" or "I just found myself in an affair". One thread right now is spelling out that self-deception in real time aka "I might just end up doing X which I can see will probably lead to me cheating, but I don't plan to cheat, just that I think I'll do X anyway" or some such rationalization.

 

Sorry for what you are going through, trader. Taking full responsibility for one's action is key step to change. Otherwise the same behavior is likely to be repeated.

Edited May 10, 2012 by woinlove

[Bellechica]

It seems to me trader that you are trusting that your W is now making the right choices. I am glad you believe that just because she had the A, doesn't mean that she will have another one. She has chosen to stop.

 

If she isn't going to IC then maybe you can help her along with soul searching to discover what needs were being met by the OM and how you can meet those needs.

The marriagemax website I posted earlier has been help for me. It might be something that can help you or her or both of you.

 

Your W also might benefit on doing research into women's infidelity.

 

Does she seem interested in learning how she got to this point in her life or do you just think she had given up on the M, step outside of the M, and now realizes its you she wants?

[Owl]

It seems to me trader that you are trusting that your W is now making the right choices. I am glad you believe that just because she had the A, doesn't mean that she will have another one. She has chosen to stop.

 

If she isn't going to IC then maybe you can help her along with soul searching to discover what needs were being met by the OM and how you can meet those needs.

The marriagemax website I posted earlier has been help for me. It might be something that can help you or her or both of you.

 

Your W also might benefit on doing research into women's infidelity.

 

Does she seem interested in learning how she got to this point in her life or do you just think she had given up on the M, step outside of the M, and now realizes its you she wants?

 

Has she chosen to start making the right choices?

 

That's the crux of the question and problem here...and the evidence doesn't support a conclusion one way or another on that.

 

THIS is what Trader needs to decide. Has she started making the right choices? Or is she just avoiding conflict?

 

He's the one to decide, and to decide at what point he either gives up or goes for broke.

[2sunny]

It seems to me trader that you are trusting that your W is now making the right choices. I am glad you believe that just because she had the A, doesn't mean that she will have another one. She has chosen to stop.

 

If she isn't going to IC then maybe you can help her along with soul searching to discover what needs were being met by the OM and how you can meet those needs.

The marriagemax website I posted earlier has been help for me. It might be something that can help you or her or both of you.

 

Your W also might benefit on doing research into women's infidelity.

 

Does she seem interested in learning how she got to this point in her life or do you just think she had given up on the M, step outside of the M, and now realizes its you she wants?

 

She hasn't made any CHOICES! She hasn't sent her OM a FINAL letter. SHE hasn't shown EVIDENCE that's SHE is ALL IN!

 

She shown evidence that she's fence sitting... By doing next to NOTHING as far as ACTION from HER END!

 

THAT is what imtrying to get Trader to realize. When he is spending more time and energy worrying about what SHE is or isn't DOING - its out of balance - and puts HIM at the mercy of what she MAY or MAY NOT DO.

 

 

 

It's not looking much different than surfers thread or ninjas thread...

 

To focus on her still being around isn't enough! She may be "around" but she's still very broken and that means she's still the same as before. She's offering YOU her broken cheating self - and you seem willing to accept that THAT is enough.

 

If it is for you - let us know - so we don't spend time and energy encouraging you to set healthy boundaries only to find that you don't INTEND to require anything more from her end...

[2sunny]

I was M 20 years - and I don't care if my H had ignored MY feelings or lacked giving me time and attention - I still would NOT have CHOSEN to cheat.

 

It's an excuse designed for HER to NOT be accountable for HER OWN ACTIONS.

[trader]

Does she seem interested in learning how she got to this point in her life or do you just think she had given up on the M, step outside of the M, and now realizes its you she wants?

 

I think this is close to what got us here.

[2sunny]

I think this is close to what got us here.

 

It may be useful to find out for sure EXACTLY what her INTENTIONS are - and what HER PLAN is to implement her intentions.

[trader]

Has she chosen to start making the right choices?

 

That's the crux of the question and problem here...and the evidence doesn't support a conclusion one way or another on that.

 

THIS is what Trader needs to decide. Has she started making the right choices? Or is she just avoiding conflict?

 

He's the one to decide, and to decide at what point he either gives up or goes for broke.

 

Succinctly put. This is exactly where I am at. Has she started, yes. Am I where I want to be? NO WAY. I am not wiping my brow.

[2sunny]

What exactly is she doing?

 

You keep avoiding that question.

[Bellechica]

She:

1. Deleted her match.com profile

2. stopped contact with OM

3. Intitiated planning a trip away with him

4. Told trader she loves him and wants to work on the M

 

Anything else Trader?

[trader]

She:

1. Deleted her match.com profile

2. stopped contact with OM

3. Intitiated planning a trip away with him

4. Told trader she loves him and wants to work on the M

 

Anything else Trader?

 

That about it. We are building the M from the ground up. One day at a time. More like one weekend at at time. No heavy lifting during the week. More like maintain the status quo. We don't live together. So any conversations during the week are mostly on the phone, and mostly short.

 

This could disinigrate on me at any instant. I realize that.

 

I could get up tommorow and wife says its too much. I dunno. One day at a time.

[Bellechica]

Trader, you can't live in fear that she might want to move on. It is she who has much to lose.

If she is emotionally stable enough, please share what posters are saying.

 

I am rooting for you both! I hope it works out for you.

[trader]

Trader, you can't live in fear that she might want to move on. It is she who has much to lose.

If she is emotionally stable enough, please share what posters are saying.

 

I am rooting for you both! I hope it works out for you.

 

Not afraid. More like whatever will be will be.

[trader]

What exactly is she doing?

 

You keep avoiding that question.

 

Not avoiding. Just won't have much more to report until weekend. Then I will most certainly.

[The Blue Knight]

I truly do understand your feelings that maybe if You had done this or if you had done that, that maybe the A wouldn't have happened, but you need to realize that every person must own their own actions, and never moreso than with something as destructive (self destructive too) as infidelity. Your WW was self-aware enough to seek treatment for her depression, wasn't she? Perhaps her treatment was the wrong one, but that isn't really your call to make, is it? I do make allowances for childhood experiences as most other posters do, but when do you stop making those excuses and fulfill your responsibility as a wife or husband? The bottom line is that there is no such thing as an unwitting affair. At some level the WS knew it was terribly wrong, but chose to do it anyway. This is NEVER the BS'S issue.

I have no problem with people owning their actions Joe. I'm a conservative and I work in law enforcement where absolutely NOBODY owns their actions. You're preaching to the wrong guy in that regard.

 

I have no guilt over what happened with my ex. She did it. It's on her.

 

I'm simply pointing out that people who come here and post . . . if they are honest . . . will at times realize that certain things they did or didn't do in the marriage may have contributed to their spouses affair.

 

There is no such thing as an unwitting affair. I agree with you. I'm stating a human reality however when I say that there are times when everything aligns perfectly and affairs are the result, even though the person who got involved in the affair may be the last person any of us think of as doing something so outlandish.

 

Let me toss two extremes at you to make my point:

 

1. Spouse is married to someone who has zero interest in sexual union. The high libido spouse is left to fend for themselves. The high libido spouse may not even be the type to cheat and may otherwise be very dedicated to the marriage. But perhaps they have young kids, or other reasons that prevent them from seeking an immediate divorce. They are ripe for an affair to occur. There is a cause and effect there due to the one spouse declaring that sex is pretty much over for them.

 

2. A woman who lives in an emotionally or physically abusive relationship. Like scenario #1, she may feel trapped, have kids, be dependent on the male half financially so she just tolerates her husband's abuse. By coincidence, she meets a guy at her local fitness club who treats her far better than her husband does, and an affair results. Cause and effect.

 

I'm NOT excusing affairs in any way. I'm spelling out a reality that we as the human race have to deal with. It's not pretty and nobody likes it, but it's there, and it's not going anywhere any time soon.