Just been burned...

[2sunny]

I guess I'll elaborate. We have only been considering our future for a week. A week with us right now, is more like a day or two. Since she is not in the house.

 

Also, I'd say we are both on the fence. This weekend I hope to make more headway. It would be nice to nail some stuff down.

 

I suppose the best question to ask her is what her INTENT is. Then stay quiet and see how she answers. You need to know.

 

Then ask her to devise a plan that shows action towards her intent.

 

It will put some accountability on her to display action to get to what her intent is - either way she chooses.

 

If she doesn't know - that's still an answer - it usually means things that aren't good for the M working out.

[trader]

I suppose the best question to ask her is what her INTENT is. Then stay quiet and see how she answers. You need to know.

 

Then ask her to devise a plan that shows action towards her intent.

 

It will put some accountability on her to display action to get to what her intent is - either way she chooses.

 

If she doesn't know - that's still an answer - it usually means things that aren't good for the M working out.

 

That is a very good suggestion. I am just waking up, but that is just what I plan for the weekend, when I have her in the same room.

[trader]

My husband hasn't cheated on me in 35 years. I told him the very first year that if he ever did, he would never see me again. I asked him recently why he never cheated, and he brought up that one statement.

 

I would hope he hasn't cheated because of his integrity and the quality of your marriage.

[turnera]

I would hope he hasn't cheated because of his integrity and the quality of your marriage.

I was friends with him before we dated. We worked together at a stereo store and, of the 15 or so people there, he was the ONLY salesman who didn't scam the customers, didn't sell them what they didn't need, treated them fairly so that they would become be-back customers (they followed him around to every store he worked at because they knew he was being honest and fair). The reason I dated him in the first place was because of his integrity. That, and he waited for two years for me to dump my (abusive, cheating) boyfriend before he ever asked me out, because he wanted me that much.

[Bellechica]

Trader, I hope this weekend with your W brings you two closer and that you get some clarity on what she intends to do.

I think she should move back in with you or ask you to come stay with her until her lease is up in Sept. So much time apart.....it seems like it would be painful for you both.

[trader]

Trader, I hope this weekend with your W brings you two closer and that you get some clarity on what she intends to do.

I think she should move back in with you or ask you to come stay with her until her lease is up in Sept. So much time apart.....it seems like it would be painful for you both.

 

I called her this morning. She wants to continue to see OM. I wished her happiness. We will divorce, but are in no hurry only to extend my healthcare.

 

The next step is to do this with as little drama as possible.

[turnera]

I'm sorry. But you will find someone down the road who will cherish you and be grateful to have a good man. (not a cheater)

[Bellechica]

Trader, I am sorry hun. You will most definitely meet someone. Stay on LS for support. Hugs.....

[The Blue Knight]

Sorry for the intrusion, Trader, but I did want to answer BK. In human terms there is no cause and effect. X does not always cause Y. You have forgotten What Graham Greene called, "The human element". Human interactions are not a mathmatical equation. There is ALWAYS a variable, or choice. In each of your examples, there was a choice being made to cheat. Sometimes the choice is easy and sometimes hard, but the variable is ALWAYS present. In your example #1 What if the spouse is incapable , because of illness or injury from consumating the sex act? The partner might, because of her love for her husband and instead of choosing to cheat, find her stimulation through toys. In example # 2, The man's abusive actions are caused by PTSD (something I know about, intimately) and his wife realizes this and when approached by her fitness friend, rejects him and works on healing her husband , instead. You see, there is always a choice. You can choose the path of honesty, honor and loyalty, or you can choose the path of deceit, betrayal, and selfishness. How you choose is the mark of your character.

Note Joe that I never said there wasn't a choice. Obviously there is ALWAYS a choice. I'm simply stating a reality that I've seen many times. And I'm not talking about the classic serial cheater here. I'm talking about the average Joe (no pun intended) or Jane who because of their environment at home and their circumstances with their significant other may fall into an affair.

 

Let me put it another way. My wife is 99.999% trustworthy. Despite what my first wife did, I very much trust my current wife and we've put 15 years of marriage behind us. BUT, I trust her for two reasons. 1) Who she is (strong character and awesome integrity) and because 2) I treat her very good and I show her constant love and affection each and every day. That positive action by me keeps her happy and content in the marriage.

 

If I were to change my demeanor or my attitude toward her suddenly and I became a first class jerk who treated her with vile contempt, within months or years, her chance of entering into an affair goes up dramatically. This is simply real life and how it works. Yes, she still has a choice. That's not my point. My point is there is a cause and effect link for many affairs.

 

You mistakenly seem to think the human race is made of emotionless robots who can wield Mr. Spock like control whenever it suits them. I wish that were the case, but it's just not realistic. We are who we are . . . and we'll continue to be well into the future. We are flawed creatures . . . like it or not.

[The Blue Knight]

I called her this morning. She wants to continue to see OM. I wished her happiness. We will divorce, but are in no hurry only to extend my healthcare.

 

The next step is to do this with as little drama as possible.

Sorry Trader. Not the news any of us (most of all you) were looking for. What a mess! I hope it at least goes smoothly buddy.

[2sunny]

I called her this morning. She wants to continue to see OM. I wished her happiness. We will divorce, but are in no hurry only to extend my healthcare.

 

The next step is to do this with as little drama as possible.

 

Dang! I'm so sorry Trader.

 

I was hoping her inaction wouldn't be true - but unfortunately when a cheating spouse isn't doing everything and anything in their power to get RECONNECTED with the betrayed - it usually indicates reluctance to invest in the marriage again.

 

What selfishness... Glad you now have an idea of her intent.

 

Now YOU can move forward and find the happiness you deserve.

 

Hugs

[nofool4u]

I called her this morning. She wants to continue to see OM. I wished her happiness. We will divorce, but are in no hurry only to extend my healthcare.

 

The next step is to do this with as little drama as possible.

 

I'm sorry this has happened. This is why most of us in the beginning of this thread were telling you like it is. We have been there and done that and are not extremists.

 

I know you can't think of it this way right now, but a whole new world will open up to you. You may not want to right now, but embrace and enjoy your freedom. And when your wife, or her OM gets the "itch" in a few years of being together on a daily basis, just smile and say to yourself "she aint my problem anymore."

 

Good luck

[trader]

UPDATE:

 

A lot of stuff went down since I last posted on 11 May. It will take sometime to tell the whole story. I will start with an executive summary right away.

 

The wife and I have reconciled. The relationship with the OM ended. We are moving forward with eyes open and both are doing very well. I do not expect any backsliding, either. We have not gone to counselling, yet. We are still living in different houses, but over the next year I will be doing some long anticipated renovations to the home we own and its all good we maintain separate places while I am dong most of that.

 

The overview on how this came about does not fit the advice I received on this forum. However, understand that I deeply value all the advice I received. As I post my story, realize is my story alone. I am not giving advice to anyone. What is working for me may not work for anyone else. In fact, I doubt few will still give us any chance gong forward.

 

In the end I felt I had to play things out with my instinct and understanding of my wife. It was not easy for me at all. There were times I thought I was crazy. I know that most believe the heavy lifting must be done by the WS. I do not disagree. But to be truthful, we would not be where we are now except that I did all the heavy lifting. She knows that. And appreciates it, too.

 

I will add more later...

[karnak]

Just be careful she won't do it again.

[turnera]

I'm glad you're working it out. Can you tell us what your Extraordinary Precautions that you have established are?

[trader]

I'm glad you're working it out. Can you tell us what your Extraordinary Precautions that you have established are?

 

Thanks for the question turnera. I have snooped. I have access to phone records, emails, internet history etc. More importantly, we spend most of our free time together. Since I am retired and she still works, I am available whenever she wants me and she wants me always. I really am not so precautionary as the average BS. I go more by my instincts.

[trader]

You're still physically separated, living in two different houses?

 

No, you haven't reconciled anything.

 

You have simply accepted that the only way you can stay married to her is if she has the freedom to do whatever she wants.

 

I understand why most BS would feel as you do. I do. The timing of our reconciliation has a lot to do our circumstance and why we are in separate households. Please take that my next comment is given with the highest respect, do you think making such a judgement without more facts - is useful?

Edited August 28, 2012 by trader

[trader]

The fact that you claim to be reconciled in a record three MONTHS calls for some scrutiny don't you think?

 

Fair enough. When I posted in May, I was less than a month into my ordeal and a lot has happened since then. To say I was on a rollercoaster at the time ought be expected. We had at times reconciled, but never to the degree expected of most in this forum. I tried to be clear on that if you get to read it all. (It is long.) The wife was clearly on the fence. I sensed, however, that while her passion was consumed with another man, her pilot light remained lit for me.

 

I appreciate you are reading the thread.

[trader]

The fact that you claim to be reconciled in a record three MONTHS calls for some scrutiny don't you think?

 

Fair enough. When I posted in May, I was less than a month into my ordeal and a lot has happened since then. To say I was on a rollercoaster at the time ought be expected. We had at times reconciled, but never to the degree expected of most in this forum. I tried to be clear on that if you get to read it all. (It is long.) The wife was clearly on the fence. I sensed, however, that while her passion was consumed with another man, her pilot light remained lit for me.

 

I appreciate you are reading the thread.

 

I am sorry I misread your post. You were only reacting on my immediate post.

[2sunny]

The fact that you claim to be reconciled in a record three MONTHS calls for some scrutiny don't you think?

 

Fair enough. When I posted in May, I was less than a month into my ordeal and a lot has happened since then. To say I was on a rollercoaster at the time ought be expected. We had at times reconciled, but never to the degree expected of most in this forum. I tried to be clear on that if you get to read it all. (It is long.) The wife was clearly on the fence. I sensed, however, that while her passion was consumed with another man, her pilot light remained lit for me.

 

I appreciate you are reading the thread.

 

Has your wife determined exactly why she cheated? Has she claimed the blame? Has she worked with a counselor on what her exact issues are? Has she done the hard work she needs to do so she will never cheat again?

 

Has she communicated ALL of these answers to you?

[2sunny]

And who ended it with the OM? And why...exactly - did it end?

[trader]

And who ended it with the OM? And why...exactly - did it end?

 

There you are, 2sunny. And asking for the salient points. Well done. She did not end it with the other guy I did. He is still alive and unhurt.

 

After my last posting in May, the month of June and first week of July was hell for me. She played me and screwed the other guy.He got the nooki, but she would take me out for dinner. He didn't know I was getting played, but I knew all was going on, saving the morbid details. She would tell me she was confused. This was the weirdest time of my life. It wasn't easy for her, either. During this we planned the divorce. Who gets what yada yada. She wasn't happy where she was living and found a house to rent that needed fixing. The apartment lease was to expire so I made a trade of my labor for some concessions on property, etc.

 

My real goal was to drive out the other guy with kindness. I know this goes against almost everything I have been told here, but I couldn't see how any of this hard sell stuff was going to work. Apparently, OM knew some of this and told her he thought her behaviour was cruel. Something he later told me, btw!

 

The last week of June and first week of July I would work on her new house while she worked at her job. She hadn't ended the affair and working on her new love nest was torture. One fateful morning I headed over to the house to do work and she called me asking if I had talked to the guy! He hadn't returned some texts! This was the last straw for me. I decided what's to lose, i'll confront them together. I did just that and created a big scene, but I avoided violence and/or jail.

 

I ended up talking with him on the phone for a couple of hours. He was already looking for the door and my arrival was all the catalyst he needed. He stills texts me every so often and asks if all is well.

 

So there you have it. Every rule broken. By the story told, a unrepentant WS only returns to her marriage because the A ends against her will. This could not possibily work. I think anyone who reads this and thinks that has excellent logic. I find no fault with that line of thinking. I disagree with the conclusion, but I understand how bad this looks on the surface. Nobody has all the facts.

 

I am sure we will be just fine in the long run. The short run hasn't been bad either.

Edited August 28, 2012 by trader

[trader]

 

1. Has your wife determined exactly why she cheated? 2. Has she claimed the blame? 3. Has she worked with a counselor on what her exact issues are? 4. Has she done the hard work she needs to do so she will never cheat again?

 

5. Has she communicated ALL of these answers to you?

 

These closed-end answers are easier. 1. Yes, but realistically this will take a long time. 2. Yes 3. No.

 

4. Never really understood this "hard work" line. Life is hard work. The work is never "done" and never is a long time. There are no guarantees. What many do not understand or believe, is that my wife was not and is not a serial cheater. We were married for 22 years and no one cheated on anyone. I am sure of that. This occured this year after we had been separated for many months. Once this pandora's box was opened she did not know how to put the lid back on. Granted, I can say I put the lid on. Really, based on details of that day in July I believe I was helped by God.

 

If I listened the bulk of the advice on this forum, we would undoubtedly be getting divorced.

Edited August 28, 2012 by trader

[karnak]

I'm sorry, because my comment isn't really helpful, but I'm writing just to explain what I think.

 

You've not reconciled yet. You live separate lives, in separated spaces. You may reconcile, yes. But that hasn't happened yet.

 

And, by the way you're telling things, it's highly probable that your wife will do it again sometime in the future. Your marriage had a problem. Are you sure you and her are addressing it?

 

She lied and manipulated you. Why did she do it? What kind of a person is she, to do such an horrid thing? Has she adressed her personal issues?

 

You see... you haven't lied. You haven't cheated. She did. She is the problem.

 

Is she trying to fix herself?

[turnera]

Thanks for the question turnera. I have snooped. I have access to phone records, emails, internet history etc. More importantly, we spend most of our free time together. Since I am retired and she still works, I am available whenever she wants me and she wants me always. I really am not so precautionary as the average BS. I go more by my instincts.

That's not what EPs means. It means how have you set up your NEW marriage so that there is far less chance of cheating or any other non-marriage-friendly activity? Do you have each others' passwords, or have you removed them all? Do you discuss daily plans for where you'll be? Do you look for opportunities to do things together, when you used to do your own thing? Do you have a weekly discussion on the status of your marriage so you can air out grievances in a safe place, so that no resentments develop and no one feels a need to cheat? Things like that. You don't want the old marriage.