Househusbands

[wwwjd]

Children aren't pets to be trained. They're human beings who if you treat with a lack of respect and erode on their self-esteem, will manifest as disrespectful, low self-esteem adults, the minute they're capable of openly rebelling.

 

yyyyeah..... jumping to conclusions there?

[wwwjd]

Kids aren't pieces of clay that can be molded.

 

 

What???? OF COURSE they are clay when they are young. That is what parents are supposed to do and some (many that I see) aren't doing that, maybe because they believe the above statement. What a crutch.

 

If more parents DID mold their clay instead of chasing the mighty dollar or next affair, maybe kids would be better these days.

 

It's easy to tell which children have been "molded" and which haven't.

I'm not talking strict, I'm talking right and wrong. Big difference. But the PC world tells you right and wrong are mythology now days. That's bull.

 

One big reason I am not married with kids is BECAUSE proper parenting is nearly illegal now. If I'm not allowed to teach my kids right and wrong, I won't have any.

[threebyfate]

yyyyeah..... jumping to conclusions there?

Don't need to. Based on the excerpt of your post I extracted, it's pretty obvious how your children will grow up if you have any since they're to be well-trained and know their place. What a horrible way to treat another human being.

[wwwjd]

Don't need to. Based on the excerpt of your post I extracted, it's pretty obvious how your children will grow up if you have any since they're to be well-trained and know their place. What a horrible way to treat another human being.

 

Do you understand the terminology of "Raising" your children?

It is sort of the opposite of letting them do whatever they want, whenever.

 

Not sure how you are turning "Raising your children" into "horrible treatment of another human being", but maybe it is a cultural or language issue. I'm in the USA. Or maybe now I know understand why I see children cursing at their own mothers faces in public and the mom ignoring it much to the chagrin of everyone else around.

 

If you want to drill down and excerpt the word "trained" from the quote from me, and turn that into a DOG TRAINING thing, that is your misinterpret... no.... make that crazy and pointless interpretation. But go ahead and make it read however YOU like it over the internet.

 

I'm not a parent but I understand the very basic (idiot) concepts of TRAINING your kids. You have to train them to go potty, brush their teeth, pick up their clothes, eat with a knife and fork, etc etc etc.... none of that is instinctual - we are trained/raised to do these things.

 

If you want to equate showing a new person (child) how to do something they've never done before, to TRAINING A DOG, well, ...... ok? have at it.

Seems kinda stupid to me.

[Mme. Chaucer]

^^^^^

 

OH MY GOD.

 

Do you realize that you are talking to people who have successfully raised children, and / or are currently doing so?

 

NO. Children are not "clay." And coming from you, this is completely hysterical. Aren't you the guy who never stops beating that same old stinking dead horse about how women are this way and men are that way and there is absolutely no room for individuality, differences, or anything? What about the "clay to be molded"? According to you, "biological imperative" (as understood by a 4th grader) rules every action of every human. Where's the molding in that?

 

You really should try to spout off about stuff you have some knowledge of instead of raising children and marriages.

[musemaj11]

If she can help it, no woman wants a less wealthy husband just like no man wants a less attractive wife.

 

If you were a less wealthy man, know that your woman must deep in her heart wish that you were wealthier and if you were a less attractive woman, know that your man must deep in his heart wish that you were more attractive.

[wwwjd]

^^^^^

 

OH MY GOD.

 

Do you realize that you are talking to people who have successfully raised children, and / or are currently doing so?

 

NO. Children are not "clay." And coming from you, this is completely hysterical. Aren't you the guy who never stops beating that same old stinking dead horse about how women are this way and men are that way and there is absolutely no room for individuality, differences, or anything? What about the "clay to be molded"? According to you, "biological imperative" (as understood by a 4th grader) rules every action of every human. Where's the molding in that?

 

You really should try to spout off about stuff you have some knowledge of instead of raising children and marriages.

 

Was it a successful raising?

Easy to spot the unsuccessful ones in the wild. Ever walk outside your front door and see people's kids in public? My god. Some people shouldn't be allowed to be parents but they F*** and there ya go. Are those YOUR kids? They have to be somebody's but luckily it is always somebody ELSE's kids, right? Geniuses raising the next school shooter.

 

I'm sick of seeing it. And I'm sick of whiney "PC" people hiding behind terminology instead of doing the right thing and raising/TRAINING their children to respect authority, mind their manners, and understand the world doesn't revolve around them. If you see THAT as child abuse then you are what is wrong with the raising principals of today.

 

I will man up and say YES, children ARE your clay... YOU are all they know for the first few years of life when it is up to you to bring them up right. It is up to you to TEACH them (or train them) to understand right and wrong and WHY that exists.

Rather than RANT ON me after saying they are NOT clay, why not explain WHY you say they are not clay?

Who does the RAISING during the first 4 years of life in your world?

 

I won't bother with child psychology here because you all had kids and have been through it and OBVIOUSLY know way more than me on that subject....

.... yet they are SOMEBODY's kids out there being complete wastes of flesh.

 

When I look at the mess society is now, it is this reasoning that floats to the top as being the cause. SOMEBODY is not doing something right....

It is apparent it is NOT me, since *I* don't have any kids out there.

 

But, I'm sure I'm wrong.

So, on topic, as a househusband, I would kick serious butt and be amazing at it.

[Art_Critic]

I will man up and say YES, children ARE your clay...

 

Manup .. No, children are not clay and you don't mold them.

My son isn't my clay.. he is my son.. a person who thinks, walks and talks.

 

They are sponges and you take what they learn and help them understand it.

We as parents set boundaries and make sure they don't cross them without consequences but we certainly can't mold our children into something.. all we can do is guide them

[Caius Ballad]

Stay at home men aren't respected by most women because females rather keep men in slave-gender-roles. You can never be free of gender roles if you bond with females the very ones who enslave you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

But, I'm sure I'm wrong.

So, on topic, as a househusband, I would kick serious butt and be amazing at it.

 

Boy, are you ever.

 

I'm pretty sure that being a "house husband" is not in your future. I hope you have other options. And if you are ever planning to create yourself some "clay" to "mold," it's going to be a sad state of affairs unless have a major series of epiphanies first.

[xxoo]

all we can do is guide them

 

And we do, because we are good parents.

 

It does not, however, guarantee "success". Nor is it a guarantee of perfectly behaved children who are respectful toward everyone (that child has never existed).

 

Being home with a child is constant, hard work. It is physically hard work when they are small (getting up and teaching them, interacting with them). It is mentally hard work as they grow bigger (figuring out HOW to best guide them in a changing world, facing problems we faced and problems we never faced).

 

Being a good parent is a tough job. People who think they have parenting all figured out are usually non-parents.

[wwwjd]

I'm probably using the word "Clay" wrong here. not sure where the disconnect is or how that can be read so negatively, so not bothering with that anology anymore.

 

I never said I have parenting ALL FIGURED OUT, and I know no one does. Doesn't mean I would not try my hardest like the rest.

Did someone ASSUME I had said I had it all figured out? Believing in my tried an true methods doesn't mean I have it ALL figured out. I'm just speaking my mind about the househusbanding topic relating to child raising. But I'm not as wishy washy about it as some parents I've seen in the real world... not talking about any of you, as I have no idea about your or your kids. I don't know you.

[wwwjd]

all we can do is guide them

 

 

 

????? we are talking the same language with different words.

 

How is "Guiding them" NOT "MOLDING THEM"?? Same exact fricking thing to me

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

Being a good parent is a tough job. People who think they have parenting all figured out are usually non-parents.

 

I remember when I was one of them! I was a teenager in "hate" with my own 'rents at that time.

 

A good friend of mine, who doesn't have any kids, put it very well.

 

Having a child is like getting a pot of earth that has a seed planted in it … but you don't know what kind of a seed it is. One of our jobs as parents is to learn what kind of care will best help THAT INDIVIDUAL to flourish and to be able to make the most of his or her own attributes.

 

Of course, we will do our best to transmit the morals and values we believe in to our children.

 

When I was young, I was way on the side of "nurture" vs. "nature" on this issue. The older I get and the more I see, the more I have learned that the package of genetics that a person is born with will play such a giant part in who they turn out to be and how they NEED to be taught in order to learn.

 

I'm still chuckling that the proponent of "my children are my clay" here is the same poster who constantly attributes all gender stereotypes to all members of whatever gender.

 

If that were the way it was, who'd even need raising? Nurse the babies, show them by example how to hunt and forage, like wolves do with their pups.

 

Then, just set them loose to breed when they reach reproductive maturity; around the age of 13.

 

Their genitalia and chromosomes will take care of the rest.

[wwwjd]

While guiding, you ARE molding, especially at the very earliest ages when you have the most influence.

Now, tell me I'm wrong in THAT.

[Mme. Chaucer]

While guiding, you ARE molding, especially at the very earliest ages when you have the most influence.

Now, tell me I'm wrong in THAT.

 

Okay. You're wrong.

 

Now, backpedal away as fast as you can.

[xxoo]

Sounds like you have it all figured out:

 

If my potisition was house husband raising children, you can be dam-skippy sure THAT would be job one in my eyes, over my own fun. AND those kids would be very well trained, respecting everyone, with manners, know their place in the world.

 

Good luck with that. Parenting is humbling

[wwwjd]

I'm still chuckling that the proponent of "my children are my clay" here is the same poster who constantly attributes all gender stereotypes to all members of whatever gender.

 

Since you seem to have some focus on tearing me, I'm putting you on ignore. In the real world we would not tollerate being in the same room together, so I won't do it here either. Bye.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Guiding: leading, teaching, encouraging, advising.

 

Molding out of clay: Creating something exactly as YOU want it to be out of almost nothing, from a place of omnipotence.

[ThaWholigan]

Guiding: leading, teaching, encouraging, advising.

 

Molding out of clay: Creating something exactly as YOU want it to be out of almost nothing, from a place of omnipotence.

My little brother and I had a conversation like this about our mother. She very much identifies being a mum, so much so that I sometimes don't see her as anything else but mum. But he feels that she tries to mold us into the people she wants us to be, especially because traditionally in our culture, parenting was very strict. I don't see my mother that way, she just tries to teach and advise, rather than make us do stuff. My brother is way too headstrong, and it does grate on my mothers nerves .

 

I don't think you can mold someone into a person. They grow into a person, and you give them tools to aid them. Some will be basic, others will be tailored to the child's progression. My dad, although missing for a large part of my childhood, has this downpat IMO. In his roundabout way, he always manages to advise and encourage without enforcement.

 

It also used to be traditional in my culture to beat your children. Both my father and I have rejected the idea of doing so.

[Mme. Chaucer]

The whole idea of "parenting" is probably very new. I know that in the not too distant past, it was kind of "sink or swim" for the kids in whatever culture they grew up in. They got what they got, as far as household life. Kindness, brutality, neglect, consistency or lack of it, whatever. The parents were not likely to be thinking of the kids as mystery plants waiting for the proper nurturing, in any case. That's very new.

 

Some kids rose to the top, and some kids fell to the bottom. Others were just in the middle.

 

But, now "Parenting" is a verb. It needs to be in most modern cultures. We have to do it very consciously and with purpose, or it's probably a good idea to forego the spawning.

[Radu]

Children aren't pets to be trained. They're human beings who if you treat with a lack of respect and erode on their self-esteem, will manifest as disrespectful, low self-esteem adults, the minute they're capable of openly rebelling.

 

Funny enough, if you beat up a young dog or a young human and abuse the crap out of them, chances are they will end up as hatefull, spitefull adult dog and human.

 

So yes, they can be trained.

 

Maybe wwwjd has used the wrong word here 'clay' in that it is simple, but chaucer's examples are almost equally off.

 

Chaucer, for the first few yrs of a child's life you are omnipotence ... you are all that kid knows.

Just look at the kids that were abandoned and were raised by animals in the woods ... did they ever reintegrate into human society and become fully grown [mentally] adults ?

Edited May 6, 2012 by Radu

[xxoo]

My little brother and I had a conversation like this about our mother. She very much identifies being a mum, so much so that I sometimes don't see her as anything else but mum. But he feels that she tries to mold us into the people she wants us to be, especially because traditionally in our culture, parenting was very strict. I don't see my mother that way, she just tries to teach and advise, rather than make us do stuff. My brother is way too headstrong, and it does grate on my mothers nerves .

 

I don't think you can mold someone into a person. They grow into a person, and you give them tools to aid them. Some will be basic, others will be tailored to the child's progression. My dad, although missing for a large part of my childhood, has this downpat IMO. In his roundabout way, he always manages to advise and encourage without enforcement.

 

It also used to be traditional in my culture to beat your children. Both my father and I have rejected the idea of doing so.

 

You and your brother show how differently individual children respond do the same parent. What works beautifully for one incites rebellion in another

 

Chaucer, for the first few yrs of a child's life you are omnipotence ... you are all that kid knows.

Just look at the kids that were abandoned and were raised by animals in the woods ... did they ever reintegrate into human society and become fully grown [mentally] adults ?

 

There is a limit to which even the youngest child can be "molded". We are designed to soak up language and early socialization skills, but also to assert our own will.

 

Anyone who thinks a parent has omnipotence over a baby should try forcing a baby to sleep (my ultimate, humbling parenting fail--My wonderful, smart, respectful children are HORRIBLE sleepers, and have been since birth.)

[grkBoy]

I think many of the passive, timid men on here might be better as househusbands. As time goes on, since more women than men will be graduating with degrees, which means they will be getting more of the top jobs, this will become an option for many men.

 

I think it's an ideal solution, especially for all the career women who seemingly can't find a "marry up" option or they want the career and a family.

 

Unfortunately, I still think many women still are bred to think a "real man" is one who makes as much or more than her, and thus is the dominant income in the household. I think many women would feel embarrassed to tell colleagues their husband is being Mr Mom and she's out bringing home the bacon. I even wonder if the woman would not see her man as attractive or masculine anymore.

 

Both sides in my book need to let go of the past and be willing and accepting of trading classic gender roles.

 

Do women respect stay at home dads? Mamamia

[threebyfate]

There are men who treat human beings like children as individuals to be taught and nurtured and others who believe children are owned and need to be trained/molded, seen but not heard unless "allowed" to do so by his lordship. The latter would make horrific househusbands and terrible fathers.

 

Nurture plays a substantial role in parenting where it's the nurture of the individual, rather than obedience school for the dog, where one size parenting creates neurosis within the child. The latter is a substantial component of why there are so many people with personality disorders, since many were square pegs being shoved into round holes.