I had the affair...and am ambivalent about reconciliation.

[Owl]

We are not living together. It's now three months apart.

 

Gotchya.

 

As for settlement...I'll gladly take all the marital debt and her pre-marital debt (and will live on the extreme extreme cheap for about four years as this stuff will take, with my other commitments, about 75% of my take-home).

 

There ya go. So seperation and the settlement of finances shouldn't be an issue, and child support and custody are off the table.

 

What's stopping me? The sense that it is "wrong" to divorce, at least when it is not a mutual decision.

 

I hear you, but it's also 'wrong' to be 'married' to someone, but not care or love her enough to put your heart into repairing the damage done by your affair. I get that the only woman you 'think' about is your AP...so pursue that and free your wife to find someone who truly can and will treasure her.

 

I also know that for several years I truly delighted in her and hope (wishful thinking) that can be brought back.

 

Do you really and truly hope that it can be brought back? Because it really can be, if that's how you feel. But if you're just going through the motion of "trying" but your hear isn't into it, you're doing nothing but prolonging the agony and pain.

 

So...make a choice. AP, or wife. Which just popped into your head? There's your answer...drive on.

 

On the one hand the marriage therapist says that is possible, and that we are both making such progress...on the other hand, at times I feel like a project for him...the couple that are sticking it out and working on things when most of his clients would not. I told my wife from the beginning of marriage therapy that I am putting my stock/trust in what the therapist is saying based on his experience, not on what my gut tells me.

 

I'm the formerly betrayed spouse in a marriage that was nearly destroyed by my wife's emotional affair. I agree with your therapist...it CAN be possible.

 

But...the very first, most critical step is you deciding that you want to work on the marriage.

 

If you're ambivilant about it...it's doomed to fail.

 

If you're still in any form of contact with your affair partner...it's doomed to fail.

 

If your affair partner is a "backup plan" in any way if your marriage doesn't reconcile...it's doomed to fail.

 

You need to commit...or git.

 

Simple. Not easy...but not complicated.

[Character Floss]

I lost my post to you earlier. I too think you should get a D. Not because you had an A but because you are unhappy generally. I don't think it has much to do with your W. You don't seem to like your life very much. You lost your first W which is a traumatic experience and you may not be over that. You do all these things for your W and she seems to do almost nothing. Of course she loves you. She loves how handy you are. How helpful you are but she isn't "in love" with you. I mean she isn't into sex with you.

 

Reading all your posts, I think you don't listen to your instincts enough. You should. Don't reconcile. Why would you? It seems like you do what is expected of you rather than what you want. Give yourself time to feel, to know what your emotions are.

 

Going with my gut, following my gut, has been my greatest weakness my whole life. And I tend to make the wrong decision by not following my gut.

 

My wife does love me. She has had enormous demands on her (who doesn't?) but I made it too easy, too comfortable, to be single-minded in her devotion to work and not worry that anything was wrong anywhere else.

 

And no, sex has not been that important to her...and she has body image issues (weight). I've told (and mean it), I just want her to be happy with the body she has...let's celebrate her beauty...or, do what is necessary to change (ha, prescription to myself, huh?). Her normal sleep-gear is a shirt, hoody, underwear/socks and sweatpants. Hard to say "hello" when you can't even squeeze a butt cheek without going through TSA...

 

Now that she may be awakening sexually, she may really want a dominant, controllling, "Just tell me what to do" partner; and that isn't me. I prefer crashing together with someone like two waves...

[SweetJuniorMint]

Hello, she doesn't deserve soneone that cheats on her. That nulls, voids and perverts the rest of it all.

 

 

 

turn on sarcasm light:

 

Maybe you are right. She doesn't deserve losing someone who cooked for her, tended her son, did most of the cleaning around the house, made sure she and her son always had clean laundry, even when it meant tucking her in bed at 8:30 and not letting her know i'd be up till 11pm to make sure she had the delicates she needed in the morning.

 

She doesn't deserve losing someone who routinely rubber her feet, back and hands, and not as a come on; who made sure she didn't have to be bothere putting gas in her van; who, when she would fall in love with something shiny and new (usually musical instrument, laptop, etc), would research it till what she hoped for was what she would get, and then get it.

 

She doesn't deserve to lose someone who looked after her, insisted she got the rest she needed, found little ways to say, "i love you," works as much outside the house as she does, but has more energy; who routinely prepares the taxes for her family members (and no, that's not my job); who pitches in to help her family with their projects (as she pitched in to help mine!); and yes, who stopped approaching her for sexual intimacy when it seemed to be a burden, primarily due to her schedule (but for the record, whenever we would make love, her reaction was, "why don't we do this more often?").

 

All i'd like to do is find a way to cherish her again, because i did, and in her heart she cherished me; but in her actions, because of her energy level or not thinking it was important, she often did not show it.

 

And i came to the point where it didn't matter that she didn't show it...but when she woke up and said, "i want to show it," it still didn't matter.

 

I've offered to assume all the marital debt, and some debt that she brought into the marriage as well (about $45,000 total), and not ask her for the keyboards, sax, or any of that, while she made clear she was going to keep the the big green egg and tool-chest she had given me...

 

She makes only a little less than i do, more after taking out the spousal maintenance i pay, so i don't think that is unfair.

 

Guess it struck a nerve being viewed through one dimension.

[SandieBeach]

Thank you for the encouragement. So no falling on my bare bodkin here!

 

My prayer, more than daily, is that I find the heart for her again, and that the heart-ties to Ann fray and disintegrate. Yeah, that is actually what I pray, again and again, and my wife and I spend time together, get dinner or even cook together, share some dessert, work on things around her house together...hoping that in the ordinary common things I find my heart for her.

 

Well, how about you quit praying and just do it. Just a thought...

[Character Floss]

I disagree.

 

There is nothing I could ever do that would be good enough to make up for one incidence of infidelity. Nothing.

 

And most here would agree with that.

 

Flip side, and only some would agree, the evil I have done, that we have done, does not undo any good I or we have done.

 

They stand alone and separate...

 

UNLESS...the good was merely there for a cover. Then it's all part of the deception. If it was freely done, of good will, then they stand alone.

 

If no good can make up for an affair, they are separate.

[alexandria35]

I'm confused about a couple of things you have said. You have told us that you would like to cherish and adore your wife in the same way that you did in the past, but then you have mentioned a few times that your wife is a pleaser and she would try to be what she thought you wanted, rather than be who she truly is. So who did you love and and adore early in your marriage? Her? or a persona?

 

Also are you not guilty of the same thing you accuse her of? You have listed all the many many ways you accomadated her while asking for little in return. Why did you do that? Were you being authentic? Why are your people pleasing tendancies more acceptable than hers? Also how was she going about trying to please you and be the person you wanted , when to hear you tell it, she contributed very little? What exactly was she doing or not doing that you see as not being authentic and true to herself?

[SweetJuniorMint]

Yours was the post post I was struck enough by to write into.

 

I've been "lurking" for awhile but couldn't find anyone else to relate to.

 

I had an affair last year for about five months. He had an affair two and a half years ago.

 

It's been rocky and we are separated going to marital counseling.

Regardless of the fact that he had his affair before mine, I still stepped out and it had put a huge block between us.

 

It wasn't because my affair partner was greater or better. it was because we had better sex. He was much more into me sexually. that's what made it better. I resent my husband because he still isn't into me as much. But that has started to subside.

 

Husband: I'll call him A, doesn't know about the affair. I will not put him through the stress and pain I have gone through.

 

I know that you feel that you have done a lot for your wife and so you somewhat deserved to have fun. It does not work that way.

 

You do have complaints about your wife but you will see that those complaints will come with anyone: everyone in a relationship will fall short in some way. Everyone will hurt you or not read your cues in some way. Sometimes you will do too much caretaking, other times you will be taken care of too much. There will always be a flaw.

 

One of the things I read said when you get married, it isn't just the person you choose, it is the set of conflicts that come with them.

 

Ann was flawed. She gave you great sex and wanted you in that way more then your wife appears to.

 

Let's join reality again; you were to get together with Ann, with all of her drama and substance issues. You can relate to her past, take care if her; thereby repeating the same pattern you did with your current wife and probably the one before this one. And she can take care of your need to be wanted and adored, which you are missing with this wife. Until it comes crashing down when you realize you haven't rescued Ann just like you didn't rescue your last two wives.

 

The sex will dwindle with Ann eventually, just like with everyone, everywhere....if that is all that the relationship is built on. And truly that's all it started at. Her saying "I want to give you this gift of being loved" and then pursuing sex with you. It wasn't love as much as need and acceptance.

 

If you don't deal with this need to rescue women to be appreciated, you will never have a healthy relationship. You will always want to save them, "it's okay honey, I can do it all, put in more around the house, clean up this emotional mess, etc etc etc." meanwhile your wife(s) figure everything is okay on the Homefront so they can turn their attention outside, to rescue other parts of the world or to their own selfish endeavors.

 

Then you resent them. Divorce, remarry, repeat.

 

Going the extra mile inside of a marriage does not give you a ticket out of it when there is something you are dissatisfied by.

 

Yes, having an affair kills most of whatever marital passion there was.

It does it because your heart goes to where you screw, whether you want it to or not. The only way to fix it is to start screwing your wife again. And screw and screw and screw.

 

And realize that your affair was like a drug that tapped your sexual resources. It takes awhile to fix things up again. I've been lucky in that I was able to discover some of the other more open, sweet parts of my marriage. Sex is not currently the cornerstone of it, but it is making a recovery. The more sexual A becomes with me, the more comfortable he is with it. The better it gets.

 

Ann is a foil for all of these issues you were carrying around for so long. You must know where that trainwreck is going. That's why you aren't with her now. Not because of your wife. If you were so convicted on Ann, you'd be there.

 

It is also something else I read that men who have affairs are treating their wives like the mother figure because something didn't work right in that relationship. It sounds like you think of your wife more like your mom. What's with that?

 

Going with my gut, following my gut, has been my greatest weakness my whole life. And I tend to make the wrong decision by not following my gut.

 

My wife does love me. She has had enormous demands on her (who doesn't?) but I made it too easy, too comfortable, to be single-minded in her devotion to work and not worry that anything was wrong anywhere else.

 

And no, sex has not been that important to her...and she has body image issues (weight). I've told (and mean it), I just want her to be happy with the body she has...let's celebrate her beauty...or, do what is necessary to change (ha, prescription to myself, huh?). Her normal sleep-gear is a shirt, hoody, underwear/socks and sweatpants. Hard to say "hello" when you can't even squeeze a butt cheek without going through TSA...

 

Now that she may be awakening sexually, she may really want a dominant, controllling, "Just tell me what to do" partner; and that isn't me. I prefer crashing together with someone like two waves...

[SweetJuniorMint]

When you bundle everything together.

 

They are not separate. What happened to me was this.

 

I found my husband's affair, it killed our history. It was like he died. Even those years before everything are tainted and worn away.

 

What exists at that point is a debt that cannot be repaid. The pain so heavy and severe, cannot be undone. No dishes that you did in 1993 count for anything anymore. It's bankrupt.

 

That being said, your wife's option is to forgive the debt and make small loans of trust until you can get back on your feet again.

 

In my case there is an outstanding debt on my end. It will never come to light.

 

I disagree.

 

There is nothing I could ever do that would be good enough to make up for one incidence of infidelity. Nothing.

 

And most here would agree with that.

 

Flip side, and only some would agree, the evil I have done, that we have done, does not undo any good I or we have done.

 

They stand alone and separate...

 

UNLESS...the good was merely there for a cover. Then it's all part of the deception. If it was freely done, of good will, then they stand alone.

 

If no good can make up for an affair, they are separate.

[standtall]

Hi All,

 

 

 

So...do any of you have a story to tell that says, "Yes, it can work?"

 

 

Floss

 

Wow, what a bunch of chatter.

 

No, it wont work. You are on your third marriage, you're cheating, and you're in love with yourself.

 

Three strikes and you're out.

[jphcbpa]

This....you need to choose you. It is not about choosing Ann or your wife. Neither of them will ever make you "happy" at your core. No woman ever will. Starting looking how you can fill that void on your own.

 

You need time on your own to find who you are without any woman.

 

It may take a few years to find yourself in a healthy light.

 

Allowing these women to " define you" is not healthy.

 

If you are hurting someone in order to love another - you need to look at proper order. If you really don't love your wife - end it.

 

And don't go running to Ann the minute you're on your own and divorced.

 

Let time show you who you are - and how YOU feel.

 

Get healthy enough to know how you really feel about YOU.

[jphcbpa]

.

 

In bed by 8:30...And no, sex has not been that important to her...and she has body image issues (weight). Her normal sleep-gear is a shirt, hoody, underwear/socks and sweatpants.

 

sounds like my wife...no wonder it has been 3 years. i can relate to a great deal of how your wife is, not sexual. I agree that there is not much a MC can do to change that.

[Character Floss]

When you bundle everything together.

 

They are not separate. What happened to me was this.

 

I found my husband's affair, it killed our history. It was like he died. Even those years before everything are tainted and worn away.

 

What exists at that point is a debt that cannot be repaid. The pain so heavy and severe, cannot be undone. No dishes that you did in 1993 count for anything anymore. It's bankrupt.

 

That being said, your wife's option is to forgive the debt and make small loans of trust until you can get back on your feet again.

 

In my case there is an outstanding debt on my end. It will never come to light.

 

You know, in some ways we are saying similar things:

 

The pain is so severe it can never be undone (agreed).

What I did before that was good makes no difference...cannot soften...my unfaithfulness.

No dishes taht I did in 2005 count for anything. Agreed.

 

And none of that should...and, my betrayal of her also doesn't mean those were bad things to have done (depending on motive) or that it's foreign to me to do them, etc.

 

Nothing I did that was "good" entitled me to the affair. They're not in the same universe. Betraying the person you love, or who loves you, is in its own universe but the action blankets everything, everywhere.

 

The crap in any relationship does have a few points, I think: it can increase or decrease the likelihood of choosing to betray a partner; it can show my failures in accepting something that deep-down was unacceptable to me, at least after a point; and it can sometimes point out what are genuine imbalances.

 

At the end of the day, at that point of decision, I had a choice that was all my own. Even if I felt I had not choice (NOT THE CASE), I can easily imagine someone else in the same situation not betraying his or her spouse, which proves the point that it is always a choice.

 

Maybe this is better: the affairs you and your husband had don't cancel one another's out.

 

Thank you for sharing.

[Owl]

So the real question here, CS...what are you gonna do with all of this information?

 

It's great to 'talk' about it...but the bottom line is this. You, and your wife's lives are dependent upon what you choose to do here.

 

Are you going to be able to put your heart into reconciling and rebuilding your marriage?

 

Or are you going to remain focused on OW?

 

Here's the crux...you CANNOT move forward in any direction until you choose which woman you're going to keep in your life. One stays, and the other has to be removed from your life entirely, forever.

 

If you choose to reconcile, there's no way that can happen if OW stays in your life in any way, shape, or form.

 

If you choose to end your marriage, there's no way your wife will be happy being in contact with you while you remain with the OW.

 

So...bottom line question...who's it gonna be? Which relationship will you keep, and which will you let go? Which one is more important to you?

[Character Floss]

You hit it on the nose.

 

As for OW, she is totally out of my wife--but not out of my mind. I admit that. There's been no contact whatsoever with her.

 

My gut says to end the marriage...and there is real sadness with that, but not an unbearable or devastating sadness. I mean, we are friends, but I don't think about her during the day, or when I wake up, etc.

 

Last week I did something I have never done before. After an intense noon-hour phone conversation with the wife, I went out and bought a botte of pre-mixed 1800 Margarita Mix, and bottle of 1800 Silver to spike it, had a couple and...since then have begun my days at work with a "properly prepared" margarita, my afternoons and before I headed out the door to the MT session.

 

I have never done anything remotely close to medicating with drugs or alcohol.

 

It just sucks. She's intelligent, loving (now wanting to learn to show me), fiercely loyal, etc., and none of that really matters to ME, but it might, to someone.

 

OH...lest she sound like an absolute saint...she was the OW for three years when she was single, from 18 to 21, with a man about 12 or 14 years her senior. He had four kids, and was the youth pastor where she played piano during that time. She rented a room in his house...

 

And years later, she had a PA when she was married. Her ex was involved in an EA or PA, not sure which, but sadly only she got caught/singled out/marked with the Scarlet A.

 

Maybe this helps explain her more nuanced reaction.

 

$hit, at the end of the day it comes down to, "So what are you gonna do?" It would be "easy" if she didn't still miss me, profess her love for me, etc. It would be easy if I did not owe her so much.

 

If I thought throwing my heart into it would make a difference...but I don't. I feel worn down to reconcile.

 

As for the OW, this isn't an either/or. She may not want anything to do with me after I firmly ended things; she may not want anything to do with me because she's gotten wiser; and, even though I thought I knew her well, that would be a stupid frying pan/fire move.

 

Thanks

[stillwater]

I don't understand this mindset. At all. I was the OM in an A, and MW said a lot of things like you do, that she's not really in love with him, her heart isn't in it anymore, she's just going through the motions.

 

And I just don't understand, if all that is true, WHY would you stay?? I can't imagine looking ahead at the next few decades of my life and thinking it's worth staying out of obligation, or guilt, or whatever it is. And why would you think the other person in the relationship would want you to stay if those are the only reasons? I want to love the person I'm with, and have them love me.

 

She said all the time that it would ruin his life if she left. Well not only does that seem a little presumptuous and arrogant (he's healthy and does just fine financially), but something tells me if on his deathbed she told him that was the only reason she stayed, I think he'd feel like he had lived a lie. And that he had wasted all these years when he could have been with someone who truly loved him. At least that's how I would feel. I definitely don't need anybody to do me that kind of "favor".

 

(Whether anything she said was true or not is a different story, but I've seen enough people here on LS say the same things that I can believe it)

[Owl]

OK...so OW is out of the picture.

 

As far as your constant thoughts of OW, and the 'lack thereof' for your wife....

 

This is normal.

 

Affairs are ADDICTIVE. It's been proven many times. And right now, you're still jonesing for your 'fix' of OW. It'll last for a while, and slowly fade over time, and as you fill your life with something/someone else.

 

It's up to you. The affair is over...so now you need to decide if you want to give it time and effort to see if there's a chance to rebuild things with your wife...or do you end the marriage.

 

Given that OW is out of the picture...there's no rush unless you and/or your wife feels pressure to rush it. As long as OW remains out of the picture, that gives your brain time to 'get over her'. If you were to actively start putting some effort into rebuilding things with your wife, you'll likely see that happen faster.

 

Try actually "courting" your wife again. Schedule date nights. Make sure that talking about the marriage, the affair, etc... is all off limits during that time. Go out and do something FUN together. Not just dinner and a movie...but things that you both could enjoy and have fun doing together. Go to an amusement park, a day hike, to the beach, etc...

 

That helps rebuild the relationship...and find the fun again.

[Character Floss]

I'm confused about a couple of things you have said. You have told us that you would like to cherish and adore your wife in the same way that you did in the past, but then you have mentioned a few times that your wife is a pleaser and she would try to be what she thought you wanted, rather than be who she truly is. So who did you love and and adore early in your marriage? Her? or a persona?

 

Also are you not guilty of the same thing you accuse her of? You have listed all the many many ways you accomadated her while asking for little in return. Why did you do that? Were you being authentic? Why are your people pleasing tendancies more acceptable than hers? Also how was she going about trying to please you and be the person you wanted , when to hear you tell it, she contributed very little? What exactly was she doing or not doing that you see as not being authentic and true to herself?

 

Alexandria, I was being authentic. As far as I know, that is just what I do and genuinely take joy from it...but here may be the difference: I don't think I change "who I am" very well.

 

That is part of the rub. After asking/telling my stepson to get off the gas, coast and brake because I saw highway traffic at a standstill, I finally said, "DAMMIT TOM GET ON THE BRAKES." My wife, and her son, to a lesser degree, dressed md down for using that kind of language. In her upbringing that was unacceptable.

 

So I sometimes say, "Pissed off," and I got tired of hiding my beer (two to three six packs of Amber Bock a year) in case her parents came by while we were out and opened the refrigerator...so I don't think my giving was inauthentic.

 

I guess this is what I expected: That if I mentioned something as being important to me, at least if I mentioned it a couple of times (and if it wasn't extreme), she would meet a reasonable need. She didn't, and it's only now that I am learning it was because she simply forgot...overwhelmed by work and on overload, just so much stayed top of mind with her.

 

If she mentions/mentioned something in passing, I would remember, research and if possible fulfill, simply because I seem to remember things more readily.

 

When we were courting and for a year or so after the marriage, at times she would trim my toenails complete with soaking my feet and even using exfoliating soap, boards, etc., to attack their rough spots. That stopped. She used to (OK, gross) pluck...oops...groom my ears. Yeah, I'm at the age where it has stopped growing on top...and moved. I really appreciated that, and since her hands are not that strong, knew it was easier than rubbing my shoulders.

 

That stopped...so I would ask her to do it, let her know they needed doing...and if she did not follow up in the next couple days, write it off. I felt that if I have to keep asking, I am badgering, or I am forcing her to do something that if it were really important, she would make some bit of a priority.

 

One day I felt I needed to get her some "DOTS," and when I gave them to her she almost cried. Why? She said she'd just been praying, "Oh God, it would be really nice if someone would bring me some DOTS." And I did.

 

What she did...some of it was what/how she said (you think I am bad at using too many words!). A lot of it was the grooming, taking care of things I was too inflexible to do. Some of it was was (looking back) too parental: seeing me stressing and hurting over the legal fight with my ex, and getting me a couple xanax (hers, not mine), telling me to take them and chill, and go to sleep. (Yes, she's a nurse). Some of it was encouraging me to keep up the battle with my ex-wife, a decision I am ambivalent about.

 

Heck, before she and I were married she confronted my ex-wife (I was mortified when she did) to make her back off from me, as my ex was suddenly showing interest in reconciliation. My wife's view was that she was "protecting me."

 

So in the beginning, she was strength, head on her shoulders, organization, care and comfort. I accepted the rest of the mix. The church I attended (where I met her) I have come to find highly manipulative; I won't go back there. (Funny coming from an adulterer). In other words, there were a lot of pieces of the entire picture I accepted or even embraced at that time, probably in exchange for that comfort and care, the embrace, a safe place to cry and gather myself to file the next motion...all of that stuff.

 

So I did a lot of the domestic stuff, she provided that anchor, and looking back it was rather child-parental. Heck, more unhealthy crap.

 

If I am ever with someone, I think it will need to be with someone who is also driven to be a giver, and someone, as I said, who especially sexually is her own force. When my wife became concerned about our marriage she began reading some bondage-discipline stuff for ideas on roleplay, or was looking for me to tell her how to touch me, just want I wanted, etc...

 

Now she has devoured all three books in the Fifty Shades series (and complained while doing it via text) that she hasn't gotten laid in too long.

 

I think she may be an excellent partner for a man who does like to exercise some real degree of control (more than just the occasional restraints and blindfolds) over her...and that's fine...that's not me.

 

I don't know if this makes any sense. She now wants to quit her job and go part time, maybe 25 hours/week. I don't know how we will make that work financially, if we can. She wants to cut down on other stress so she can focus on me. If she goes to 25 hours/week, that's fine, but she'll be seeing me between two jobs...and there is nothing per se wrong about that.

 

I see her as being attractive and desirable to a man who is a natural dom...she's a brat...she calls herself a BFJ (beetch for Jesus) and admits she is judgmental (which is why she ran off many friends of ours, of both genders, who didn't "cut it"). Flip side, I have seen her give to others of her very being, selflessly, when she did not want to and do so authentically.

 

We're all a mix, aren't we? But I think her judgmental streak (from being raised in a pentecostal holiness environment...no offense meant) is there, and as I said to her...how can she judge others, our friends, and not put me against that too? She admitted she can't...so it's just trying to figure this out.

 

I'm east coast through and through, a bit raw and blunt...OR...totally swallowing it so as not to make waves. However over the past year or so I've stopped swallowing things and been more blunt...and maybe that is where some of the mutual tension has come from.

 

If I am with someone--and it's probably unrealistic--it's to be with someone who has the need to give as much as I do...and that we do not limit it to one another...but open our lives/home/time to others, not just people we are related to. And I have learned that sexual giving and play are far more important to me than I was willing to admit seven and a half years ago, when I thought, "Well it's OK...it's the package that matters."

 

Thanks for your questions though. I do have to fight being someone's enabler.

[Character Floss]

Owl...agree. Not sure how much time to give it.

 

Yes, we do things together...but we could do more, as you suggest. Not just movies (heck, haven't done that) or dinner...but...well, she doesn't like walking much, or the lake (we've gone on some short trail stuff). Maybe a day away where there's an art museum or something....

 

Just wondering how long we do this...some say at least a year before considering ending it. I don't know. I think I have been taking my time in this just so OW will really be out of it, will have moved on, or be resentful, or what, to cut that lifeline. Make sense?

 

Damn I hate these romance-induced chemicals...

 

And I think it was SweetJunior who recommended "Screw, screw and screw some more." Tried that when first ended the PA in November...through December...I was hoping there'd be bonding, chemicals, etc...left me empty and not feeling that. She was sensing we needed something more, and I think for her on the physical level the sex was much better, but, well, it didn't affect me .

[Owl]

How long? Till it works or until one or the other of you is tired of trying and decides to divorce instead.

 

That's really pretty much your option.

[Character Floss]

Ha, the above is one of my wife's favorite sayings. Hence she thinks, "Do love me, don't try to."

 

Other favorite sayings: Just kill him and tell God he died. Kill'em all and let Jesus sort the bodies. And from her goldminer grandfather in the Black Hills, "He ain't worth the powder lead to blow him to hell.":rolleyes:

 

Do we see a pattern? Hey, since I found myself missing her Saturday, and since we haven't gone to a movie in a long time (with Deadliest Catch, who needs movies?) I'll see if she wants to grab a movie tonight.

 

What am I getting myself into? At least I am over feeling that I am leading her on. I've been honest about what I do and do not like, feel, etc., so it's hers to interpret as just going to a movie!

[Character Floss]

I think if your wife read what you wrote here and how ambivalent and loveless you feel toward her, I would hope she would tell you to leave and not to let the door hit you as you go. I would not, (nor do I believe most women) would want a man who feels as you do toward her nor one who isn't sure what he wants. And I feel bad for her because you've indicated that she is the one doing everything to make it better and you are just in limbo and aren't really doing anything.

 

So.........does she know your true feelings about her as you've told the posters here? If she does and she wants to keep you, she has some co-dependent issues. If she doesn't know.......you ought to show her these posts.

 

I think she, and even the marriage therapist, have viewed it as me just being extreme in my view, not sharing my true feelings. I've even told them both, in the sessions, that I feel "not heard" in this regard. The therapist acknowledges but asks that I slow down and take time, as he thinks we are making progress understanding ourselves and one another.

 

Respect her? Wholeheartedly. Feel we are compatible (backgrounds/expectations)? Not really. Love her? I'd give her a kidney, or I'd find the perfect flower, just to give her a reason to smile, but when she touches me, etc., I'd rather she not, and I know it, and she knows it.

[Character Floss]

I actually thought you were a woman when I was reading that long, LONG initial post (and which I couldn't complete because it was just too much prose). You even write like a woman.

 

I'll assume you're definitely a Beta male.

 

You need to read the book, "Why Men Love Bitches" because you're doing everything a woman does.

 

OK, I'll add that to the list (for real).

 

Hell, my wife once said, in appreciation, "You make a really good wife." If looks could kill...

 

Seriously...the closest thing I have found to what I have done/how I feel is called "Runaway Wife" syndrome, and I think, in our society, if I were the wife what I am suggesting/thinking/experiencing would be acceptable if not applauded. I have a co-worker who left a "good man" four or five yeras ago after sixteen years of marriage or so...two boys under the age of twelve...was "taken care of" but just didn't feel there was love for him.

 

She's the one who has said for a year and change, "Stick a fork in it."

 

Heck...my wife is not feeling too well today...on my way to fix dinner for her and the stepson, after helping my co-worker and her (new) husband with their computer...go figure.

[frozensprouts]

OP,

reading your posts, i can't help but think that you are more caught up in the notion of what you think love should be like with your wife, rather than what love really is. I read your posts and I see all kinds of reasons why she doesn't fit into your description of 'love"...

 

tell me something...do you feel you love your wife? If so, what do you mean by 'love"? Do you feel she loves you? What would your definition of her loving you be? Is your definition even something she capable of meeting?

 

It almost sounds as if you have a very "poetic' view of what love is, but when it comes to the day in/day out workings of a long term relationship, the average, every day things can't meet your expectations. It's like you've got some fantasy of what her love for you should be like/look like, ans it's not something that she can meet.

 

I don't think you're a bad guy, but it does sound like there are some issues within yourself that you need to work on before you're really ready for a long term relationship

 

(query: - you may have said, but i can't remember- how long did your marriage to your first wife last before she passed away? was it in the early years, still during the "honeymoon phase"? If so, is it possible that you are comparing your marriage to your current wife to that standard, which is kind of unfair? No marriage stays as a "honeymoon ' for ever...- not saying that is what is going on, but I just thought I'd throw it out there to see what you thought)

 

I also wanted to thank you for posting here...it's good when a wayward spouse does, as their input is valuable

[findingnemo]

Floss, what do you do for yourself?

 

One quest I'm on right now is learning how to be selfish. It sounds terrible, right? I actually googled it out of frustration. I used to do all manner of things for people and ended up feeling resentful. I didn't realize at the time what the problem was. You must have balance in your life. Balance between doing for others and doing for yourself. You really don't do the people you love favours when you are very helpful but inside seething with resentment. The end result is a "runaway something".

 

If you read anything about this, the first thing you notice is that runaway W's and Hs have a communication problem. They fail to communicate effectively when they try and eventually give up. Instead they internalize everything, have debates with themselves and come to a conclusion which usually blindsided their spouses. They spend way too much time acting - as in pretending all is well.

 

The first lesson in selfishness (or rather in respecting your "self") is to learn to say NO. Learn to just say No without explanation or excuse. NO can be a complete sentence. Another way to say No by not volunteering to do things just because. Try it. Your W is ill, it sounds like a good idea to make her dinner. Instead of going right ahead and doing so, you should have asked yourself if you feel like doing it. If the answer is no or anything but yes absolutely, then don't. It is a voluntary action and so if you don't do it, you will not be condemned by anyone. Even if you were, so what? Take back your power. Resist doing things just because you can and do them with one heart.

[Radagast]

Character Floss my situation was a little different. My then-wife and I separated for reasons other than an affair and I experienced similar ambivalence when she requested reconciliation. The deciding factor for me was the children who had taken the split very badly (as had my then-wife, despite it being her choice and she who moved out) and so I agreed to take her back.

 

It was a huge mistake. I tried very hard but could not get the feeling back. Physical contact was out of the question, although I tried. I was not remotely attracted to her and nothing I tried was able to overcome that.

 

A couple of years later I had an affair. I have since divorced my then-wife and have been happily remarried for some years now. I should have admitted during the separation that I was wasting my time trying to work things out. My children, myself and probably even my ex-wife lost a few years where we could have been happy but weren't as a result.

 

If it's dead, bury it. Keeping the corpse propped up at the dinner table will just put you off your food.