A Good Question for the Ladies...

[viktorious11]

So, I'm 27 and my 23 y/o wife and I (& 18 m/o baby)decided to divorce 4 months back. All the while, I moved out of her mommys, and pushed off her forcingthe divorce papers thinking it just wasn't real. Well- she was already intimately involved with an ex bf with whom she had "unfinished business." I'm heartbroken, dumb-founded, devastated, yet humbled in a sense that I now know I'm not invincible.

 

Here's my question:

 

-Over the weekend I sent her a few pics with me and my baby saying: we miss you mommy!!She replied with simply a

 

What does this mean?! Is it smart to guilt her with her child with comments like "do you only want to see him 1/2 of his youth and stuff like that?

 

I want my family back so bad- but I don't know how best to show her that I'm the better man than her new "love."

 

Opinions Please! Men, please chime in as well if you'd like!

 

-Viktorious

 

PS: you guys are awesome and really helping me cope! Read my other post if you care to hear more details- like every other post- it's a unique story! hehe

[tojaz]

So, I'm 27 and my 23 y/o wife and I (& 18 m/o baby)decided to divorce 4 months back. All the while, I moved out of her mommys, and pushed off her forcingthe divorce papers thinking it just wasn't real. Well- she was already intimately involved with an ex bf with whom she had "unfinished business." I'm heartbroken, dumb-founded, devastated, yet humbled in a sense that I now know I'm not invincible.

 

Here's my question:

 

-Over the weekend I sent her a few pics with me and my baby saying: we miss you mommy!!She replied with simply a

 

What does this mean?! Is it smart to guilt her with her child with comments like "do you only want to see him 1/2 of his youth and stuff like that?

 

I want my family back so bad- but I don't know how best to show her that I'm the better man than her new "love."

 

Opinions Please! Men, please chime in as well if you'd like!

 

-Viktorious

 

PS: you guys are awesome and really helping me cope! Read my other post if you care to hear more details- like every other post- it's a unique story! hehe

 

Not smart at all!

In fact it is the exact opposite of what you should be doing. It will be seen as manipulative more then anything else. Tread lightly Vik there is no easy fix, no tactic or strategy thats going to make her change her mind. The quicker you get the quick fix out of your head the better.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

Reading your other threads...and the fact that you are that young with children and have little experience....what you put out is what you get back. You antagonize, you get it back..and then you want to come here and ask "the ladies"?

 

Sweetie...grow up, one day you will be a role model for your child...get it? And I thought the drama of my youth was bad...sheesh.

[HHC]

Your text was mean and manipulative.

Her back was 'I have nothing else to say, but I'll reply just so he stops sending me these hurtful smss'

[CC12]

Using your child as a pawn in your games to manipulate her is actually pretty disgusting and will most likely backfire on you in a spectacular way.

 

Hope I helped!

[soserious1]

Vic, divorce court judges take a real dim view of that kind of behavior, I would stop sending those kinds of texts if I were you.

[momto3boys]

The ":)" text probably means she has nothing else to say. She doesnt want to be mean, but also doesnt want to lead you on.

 

i would not send those sorta texts anymore. I also wouldnt manipulate her with your child either. It will just push her farther away. And also you shouldnt want her to stay just because of the child and the consequences of having to split time between you and her for your child.

[viktorious11]

Man... Thanks everyone for the swift kick-in-the-rear. I guess I just gotta sit back, continue to improve myself, and just hope and pray that she sees the light as I have.

 

The only reason I do that is because I'm at the end of my rope in desperation. I know that it's wrong to use little Daniel as a pawn- but I know how badly deep down she wants a family together- but she is blinded by her new love.

 

Maybe I can have a 3d party subtly convey these thoughts to her? like our counselor or something?

 

Also- isn't it possible that every woman is wired differently and just one of these times I'll pull the right string?! I'm not trying to discount the advice that has been given to me- rather, encourage a friendly discussion on the matter- because we all get into that desperation mode whether we like it or not.

 

Also, Also- this OM of hers- I want her (obviously) to end the relationship with him. Whether we are together or not, the divorce is far from bein finalized and I want to convey to her that it is unfair to do this to our covenant/to our family/and to herself. She had been from one relationship to the next since she was 13 without so much as a week in-between boys. She needs to become independent herself, but she is convincing herself that "everything happens for a reason and me and mr. OM were truly meant to be together."

 

How hurtful!! I refuse to believe she is correct and I refuse to give up without a good fight.

 

So: Question #2, Do I forcefully tell her to stop communicating with this man? Do I ask her nicely? Do I leave it to a 3d party? or do I just sit back and wait?

 

I get the feeling ppl are going to say just let it be- but I truly feel in my heart that time is of the essence and my wife needs me to keep fighting for her.

 

Again- thx for the responses. it helps alot to get these feelings off my chest!

[viktorious11]

....and just for the record- I hadn't yet sent her the "1/2 your sons life" text. All I sent was a pic w/ me and Daniel saying "we miss you and love you."

 

The former was merely something that a lady-friend of ours had mentioned that was in a similar situation a year back. She said that was one of the thoughts that convinced her to stay- so I want W to think of that before making things final (hence getting 3d party involved perhaps to relay the message subtly..)

 

Any thoughts are appreciated and taken to heart!

[thatone]

you let her go and cut your losses, man. everyone on this forum older than ~30 knows who your wife is. she wants the lifestyle in her 20s that her friends have that is not conducive to being a mother and a wife, so she's gonna check out on your marriage and go do those things. nothing you say or do is gonna change her mind.

 

lesson number two is don't take advice of your/her female friends about how to reconcile with your wife. they'll all tell you what THEY want (or think they want) but it doesn't have any basis in reality and has nothing to do with your wife.

 

it's over, let it go. document the affair and use it against her to your fullest advantage in the divorce. do not accommodate the OM, in fact cause him drama if you can, make it uncomfortable. if she/he goes crazy over you making their affair uncomfortable document all of that too. build your case, then get the divorce proceedings over with and go on with your life.

[viktorious11]

Thx for the post, ThaTone. Although those words were dreadful to read. I still believe I can save this marriage- so I'll keep on trucking' until my heart tells me to stop. I agree as well with the whole affair thing- although: a. we kinda both agreed to keep lawyers out of this b. I'm not trying to take her son away from her by any means, c. She could Aleta fire back with: he smokes pot and gambles all the time etc etc.... I don't think I would win that battle by any means...

 

Right now I'm still focusing on showing her that I'm changing- and somehow getting her to stop talking to OM. I cringe at the thought of letting her carry on with this affair, dispite the fact that we were already in agreement with the divorce when it happened.

 

Although I'm aware that letting go seems to be the best answer- my heart keeps telling me to keep fighting. So I want to do it tactfully since I already committed myself to fighting for my family and wife back.

[thatone]

yeah, you might. she's manipulating you. you can deny smoking pot. you can simply stop and pass any test they'd give you after a few weeks if it went that far. gamblig is legal, cheating on your wife/husband is not, in purely legal terms. this is assuming you have no drug conviction.

 

but honestly the only time i have ever seen a situation such as yours survive is when the husband went into full blown attack mode. destroy the OM's life at all possible points. female boss? tell her, tell female coworkers as well. and if he's also married, revealing the affair to his wife. cut your wife off from credit cards, money, blast the affair to her friends and family, be completely ruthless and make the point known by action, not just words, that you will not sit idly by, you can and will take away her fantasy whenever you choose.

 

then when it registers in their minds that they have made a serious mistake some women will see the light bulb and guilt will take over.

 

but that's the only shot that i give even a miniscule chance of success.

Edited May 8, 2012 by thatone

[CC12]

she's manipulating you.

 

How?

 

destroy the OM's life at all possible points

 

I have to disagree with this suggestion. The OM doesn't deserve to have his life destroyed, and neither does she. They started a relationship after the OP and his wife mutually agreed to separate and get a divorce. That the OP is having second thoughts now doesn't give him the right to start attacking anyone.

 

Also- isn't it possible that every woman is wired differently and just one of these times I'll pull the right string?! I'm not trying to discount the advice that has been given to me- rather, encourage a friendly discussion on the matter- because we all get into that desperation mode whether we like it or not.

 

Getting your own way by "pulling strings" and guilting someone into doing things you want is manipulation. You're trying to control her actions, and that's not okay. You're disregarding what she wants in favor of what you want, and that's selfish. You think you know what's best for her better than she does. That's disrespectful.

 

It seems very clear to me that she is not willing to get back together with you, so this "string-pulling" strategy is not going to work and there's a very real possibility that this will cause her to not want to speak to you at all. I personally would never remain in contact with anyone who attempted to manipulate me. I think that's true for most people. So I think you're really treading on thin ice with this.

 

I read in your other thread that you two are in counseling, for the sole purpose of building a friendship for the sake of your child. During your next session, maybe you should bring up your intense, overwhelming desire to be with her and describe the tactics you've been considering using to accomplish this. The goal should not be for the counselor to convince her to get back together with you (that's not his/her job), the goal should be for you to simply be open and honest with your feelings, which is what you're supposed to be doing in counseling.

 

Part of learning how to have a friendship with her is dealing with things like this in a healthy way, not the damaging way that you've been attempting so far.

 

So: Question #2, Do I forcefully tell her to stop communicating with this man?

 

No. When you agreed to break up, you gave up any say in what she does or who she speaks to. That you're now regretting your decision doesn't make this any less true.

 

Anyway, (yikes, long post) you have professional help available via your counselor. Take advantage of that.

[thatone]

disagree with all of the above. they are married. she can't simply say "we're breaking up" and go jump in bed with another guy. that's not how it works. if that's what she wanted she should've stayed single, but she didn't, she got married.

 

he has every right to make her affair as difficult as possible.

 

she is manipulating him, when he agreed to a separation while she had an affair going on, he got manipulated right then and there.

 

he's spinning his wheels fantasizing about her coming back but it's not going to happen until he takes whatever steps possible to destroy the affair. she won't do it on her own, why should she? she has him to take care of her kids while she f*cks some other guy.

Edited May 8, 2012 by thatone

[PegNosePete]

Agree with thatone. OP, you can try and try to reconcile until you are blue in the face but it will not make one jot of difference if that is not what your wife wants. It takes 2 to make a marriage but only 1 to break it. If she does not want to be married to you, then there is absolutely jack ***** you can do about it.

 

Go shock and awe on her ass. Let her see the full consequences of her actions. Cancel all joint bank accounts and credit cards. Stop paying any joint debts or liabilities including the mortgage. Tell everyone who will listen about the affair, especially your family and her family (but DON'T involve kids). Don't reply, talk, SMS or email her AT ALL unless it directly involves the kids. Shock and awe dude!

Edited May 8, 2012 by PegNosePete

[viktorious11]

Whoa! I'm overwhelmed with the responses- and thankful

for them as they are not only fun to entertain but they will be good things to keep in mind as back-up plans. Here's my plan now, though, and thought process behind it:

 

Kill her with loving ACTIONS. Try not to be too obvious about it- but things like taking child to Dr. without asking her to, pick her up some coffee, encourage her during her finals, etc. I also make sure that she knows, via text, that my family is my #1 priority and I will spend the rest of my life proving that to her.

 

As hurtful as it may be that she is with OM- I take ful responsibilty for it as when I agreed to divorce she felt very abandoned. having already had to shut out her father from her life once and for all (after years of "in and out of lifeness" she has essentially done the same to me. Her heart is battered and bruised to a pulp and she is afraid to let me back in - so I must prove to her now that she can.

 

As far as addressing the OM- I will do that at tomorrows session. I am crapping my pants- to be honest- because I'm terrified she is in too deep with him already and thinks that because he has still been in love w/ her for 8 years since they first dated that he is now the one. It sickens me. I must tell her to stop this. I feel I must be forceful. Protective. A woman loves to be fought for, no? If for nothing else than the sanctity of whatever we have left in our marriage (I've already been served the papers) - I will ask her to distance herself from this man.

 

It's a long shot- but in order for her to even consider reconciling, she must end ties with him. but she's been from bf to bf to bf to husband to bf since she was 13. She can't be without a man for longer than a week- and I was too foolish to think of this when I, too, agreed on the divorce.

[worldgonewrong]

A woman loves to be fought for, no?

 

Not if she views you as yesterday's news and treats you with contempt and is screwing someone else. A woman like that takes sick pleasure in watching that guy fight, struggle, and go down repeatedly.

[viktorious11]

Well, for the record, they only screwed once (to my knowledge) and it was during a visit of his to LA. He lives across the country and plans to move to LA for other rather coincidental but verified reasons.

 

This is why I feel I must fight. I can't just allow her to move in with this guy and start a new life with him. I am under the clock as he is moving home and surely their relationship will blossom if she doesn't somehow put an end to it.

 

I'm not yesterday's news- I don't care how it looks. We were in love for 10 years and under the pressure/comfort of marriage I became stubborn, resentful fat, and lazy within two years. She fell out of love with me coincidentally as we were ending our marriage and she reconnected with old BF.

 

So I'm still somewhere in her heart- I'm her Childs father for crying out loud. I want to prove to her I'm the better man. I've never fought for anything this hard in my life- and it feels good, as hurtful as it may be...

 

I'll update after counseling tomorrow. I am going to see I for the sake of our marriage, she stop communicating with him. I hope it works.

[thatone]

i just read your other thread. really dude? you have an MBA and you're living broke as a joke at HER mother's house?

 

there's no way you're fixing this, that i can see.

[viktorious11]

Well, she lost her job and we racked up alot of debt living in our appt and me gambling alot and her buying $800 high heels and strollers. We decided to move back in with her mother to save money and get help w babysitting. Turned out to only make matters worse and resulted in more opportunities to frivolously spend and go our separate ways at night.

 

My MBA is still a work in progress- seeing as how I stayed very bitter at her for "guilting me into moving home" and forcing me into online classes that I knew I would fail.

 

Nonetheless, you are correct, I am very over-qualified for my maturity level and priority level- I had my priorities in all the wrong places and making the decision to move back into M-I-L's was a move begging for divorce.

 

But - I hope it's never too late to fix it- it's certainly never too late to try...

[viktorious11]

Well, I think I've given up the fight. It's hurting me way too much. I need to just let her go. Man, it's gonna be painful when the new bf moves here, when they move in with each other, and all that. This is really gonna suck. But hopefully in the end it'll make me a stronger/better person.

[81West]

You seem to have indicated that she lost respect for you along the way, for reasons you at least partially acknowledge. Nothing will happen on the love/emotion side until she regains some of that. As a woman I can tell you that perhaps unintuitively too much 'niceness' at the wrong time works exactly against this. You've essentially added 'begging' to 'fat and lazy'. LOL. I mean that for you to try and see the humor in that, not in any way to laugh at you or your situation. It's time for you to pull way, way back for two reasons. First, you have to create some mystery and tension on her side by suddenly changing your behaviour and availability. Be absolutely civil, polite, cooperative where appropriate but give no more than is absolutely necessary to maintain a co-parenting relationship. Don't answer every call or every text. You're going for slightly mysterious here, slightly aloof, generally a sense of personal strength and self respect. Second, YOU need the distance right now. Your emotions and thoughts are all over the map, understandably, but it is a terrible state of mind to be translating into any kind of action. Give yourself space and time to get yourself even. Respect yourself and pour yourself into you right now, and your son.

[viktorious11]

Thx 81West!! That is very true.. As my friend keeps telling me, don't show her your pocket Aces or she'll run for hills! Why would she even want to play if she can clearly see your hand!

 

I mean, in terms of her and I getting back together, I tried ruthlessly for 2 weeks doing everything but camping out in her front yard. I need to give it up.

 

I was hoping for the scene from The Notebook to unfold, but unfortunately not only was it not raining, but she didn't passionately kiss me back. She turned the other way

 

So- I think I have two options left.

 

1) Get a bottle of Jack Daniels and go find a ditch somewhere to call home.

or

2) Don't contact her unless it is Daniel related, and become a proud, supportive, and financially stable single father, and let the rest just fall into place.

 

Now... Which way to the nearest liquor store? ;)

[Character Floss]

Vik,

 

I am on the other side; the H who no longer finds an emotional attachment to his wife. I can tell you that the control, efforts, etc., only serve to drive her away, or to have more reasons to know why what she is doing is the "right choice."

 

For instance, my wife has typically slept in sweat pants, panties (that I dare not tell her are too small/tight), a shirt and hoody. All in all it's rather a suit of armor, especially given she will often go to bed at 8:30 or so, and I would join her later.

 

I mentioned in our recent talks how if we got back together and she was comfortable in them, pajamas of some sort would be a nice change. So when she invited me over to watch Deadliest Catch, there she was in pajamas (never knew plain pajamas could cost $60/pair!).

 

So why now? This is an old discussion, something we had talked about years ago...and while I would have appreciated it years ago when I desperately loved her, now it was--or felt--manipulative.

 

"See, I hear you. I take you seriously. I can change. And do you like these more? Would you come back if i worse these to bed?" And no, they were not "naughty" but appropriate for when any family member was around.

 

I was a single dad due to being widowed. Become the best dad you can be, and try to let her go. On the "ha ha" side, take your son to the park...kids are better than dogs and you will have young ladies swarming around you .

 

You write you were in love with one another for ten years...yet she is 23 and you are 27.

 

Is it possible for her to have been developed enough, emotionally and that damned pre-frontal cortex, to have known love, and even being in love, when she was 13, 14 or 15?

 

I would have a hard time NOT feeling that I had locked my life in course way too young had I been with someone since I was 13. You are not now who you were then, and neither is she. Let go...because if you two get together and there is a grain of manipulation, pressure, ownership or beggership to have accomplished that, that one grain will be like a little cyanide in the drinking water.

 

If you divorce her, let her go, move on...if she comes back, you may have a different perspective and say, "No way." OTOH, if she comes back on her own, if you are still open to her, you have the baby steps of a new start but I suggest real counseling to plough through the issues, first.

 

Good premarital counseling results in lots of couples deciding not to get married at all; we can rarely change that much, but we can get an honest view.

[viktorious11]

Thx for the reply!

 

One of the best replies i've gotten yet. Very true - she was 13 and i was 17 and we both were madly attracted to each other. For 5 years we dated others, and then finally got together for an out of control love experience where we were already saying "forever" after a few days.

 

I experienced those "locked myself up with someone I'm uncertain is the 'one'" feelings too. It was haunting. I remember going to sleep at night thinking to myself "if it wasn't for the option of divorce I'd just shoot myself right now."

 

Well, I got what I was asking for and I'm having lots of trouble dealing with it. I like your advice though. To the park I go!