Why do some people seem to struggle all their lives when others seem to never suffer?

[turnera]

Even Jesus asked 'why have you forsaken me? upon the cross.

[january2011]

No, the individual's perception and reaction to the suffering is a choice. Not the suffering itself.

 

I don't think that it's a case of not caring and ignoring. My guess is that it's more a case of self-protection kicking in because the individual cannot handle the overload of emotions and mental anguish they feel from the loss of a child, for example. However, I think that these are best guesses. We don't know what people go through to survive or what thoughts they are thinking to get them through the day. Just because it looks like they don't care or are ignoring the problem, it doesn't mean that is the case. This is where our perception of the individual's situation and their reaction to it muddies the waters and we parse everything through our own worldview, which may or may not align with that of the individual concerned.

 

That is, we consider that the individual is not handling the situation in the way that we think that we would handle it, and therefore the reaction seems wrong, ineffectual or not solving the problem. I think that if you're a doer and solutions-oriented then it can be quite frustrating to deal with a thinker and someone who is more about the journey rather than the destination.

[writergal]

I love how this conversation continues to evolve on my thread and just want to say that I really appreciate everyone sharing their input.

 

To address Eve's earlier question as to how this will help me. When I posted the question is was more to start a philosophical discussion with everyone because I thought hearing what everyone thinks would help me gain more perspective on my situation. Sometimes it's hard to be objective in your own life, and hearing others' opinions and shared experiences can be really helpful. To address my other threads where I complain about my student debt and situation around prepping for a state math exam that I need to pass to get my state teaching license - I have decided to continue applying for jobs this summer in public relations and broadcast radio and tv as Plan B. If I get hired, I will postpone my student teaching for a few years (if the job pays really well and has potential to develop into a career) since my program's cap is 7 years. However, if this summer proves job-less for me, then I will proceed with student teaching in the fall, then resort to Plan B in the wintertime (while working multiple part-time jobs, or one job, ideally). This way, I've got the student teaching done which is required for licensure and required before I could complete my 2 final capstone courses for an education masters (if I wanted to spend another $20k for in student loan money, which I don't at the moment). That is my new plan. Bases covered (I hope).

 

As far as the points HOL brought up about my accident, student loan debt and his comparison to a concentration camp; I've grown up with the philosophy, belief, or awareness that the events in my life (or universally speaking - life in general) are the result of causes - that what happens to me (my truck/bike accident that caused me to rehab in hospital for weeks and took a year for recovery, incurring twice as much student debt b/c I don't work full-time and transferred to a more expensive grad program, fail college level algebra tests, for example) are caused by myself or external forces, and that the effect is also out of my control. My only control is how I choose to react based on my resources; if I have supportive people me that helps or if not just my inner sense of self-worth and strength, mine or others' similar prior experiences I can relate to, or my life philosophy, spirituality, etc. a lot of things influence how I react to each situation that happens to me.

 

I don't believe (and never have) in 'fate' or 'randomness' of life. I believe that my thoughts, words and actions directly influence and cause my personal experiences (excluding the ones that happen to me beyond my control like getting hit by an illegal immigrant driver who knocked me off my road bike. That accident happened because it had two causes - the driver speeding and my lack of spatial awareness of the intersection because I was distracted by something when I got hit. Had I been more aware, the effect would have been me not being hit.

 

As far as HOL's reference to my student debt - I caused that based on my choices with the effect being that I brought on more unnecessary debt for myself because I didn't think my situation through well enough before I acted. Had I made different choices, I wouldn't have accrued enormous student loan debt. Now I have made more choices regarding the repayment of my student loan debt (enroll in an income based repayment program to lower my monthly payment amount, for example). If I had passed the Praxis Series math test two years ago instead of failing it a few weeks before the new required state exam that replaced it, I'd have my teaching license already before I finish my program this fall with student teaching. I didn't know the Praxis Series was going to be replaced. I also didn't know that when I took the tests, that the state requires you to wait 3 months before you can retake the tests. Cause and effect, right? Or if I had not transferred to a more expensive grad program, I would not have accrued more student loan debt. Cause and effect.

 

As far as HOL's Korean concentration camp reference and all the bad, evil things that get done to others; I believe that the victims of those camps (and any victims of violence on any scale) didn't have a choice to endure those experiences. The cause of their pain was violence. The effect of violence on those camp victims (and any other victim) gives them the opportunity to either heal from it and become stronger, or other ways to react. When I was an undergraduate student I had the lead role in a play that told the story of one woman's survival in the Terezin ghetto when she was young. Opening night of our play she spoke at a pre-reception about her experience and then the cast got to meet and speak with her. I'll never forget that experience. The woman returned to Prague where she got married, had children and attended medical school to become a pediatrician. Amazing example of a survivor.

Edited May 10, 2012 by writergal

[Anela]

I go back-and-forth on fate. I was just thinking about cause and effect, when I was in the shower: thinking about my own experiences, and how in some ways I did cause my own suffering - but it can be difficult to pull yourself up when you're constantly getting slammed.

[writergal]

I agree that it can be hard to confront how we contribute to our own situations. I think where people get tripped up is when they think they are the effect of some cause (with the exception of an external cause beyond their control, wow i sound like a broken record). Clearly I couldn't control the speed of the truck driven by that illegal immigrant who hit me. But my distracted mind was my contribution to my accident - my cause. I wasn't a victim of circumstance. I was a victim of two causes colliding together to create a nasty accident.

[Anela]

If only it were that simple.

 

Try telling that to a mother watching her child die in Africa, or to someone who cannot get over being abused, no matter *how* hard they try.

 

We all react differently to horrible things, some will have ways of coping better with it, maybe because they grew up with solid foundations, or maybe they are just different genetically, maybe their circumstances or their support system means they have the strength of mind to get through it, and we all have differing character traits. Some people will cope far better with stressful things, this doesn't mean the people who react badly to stress are not trying hard enough or choosing to suffer, who would 'choose' to suffer?!

Some people are not able (for varying reasons and circumstances) or have the strength, for varying reasons, to respond in a positive way to stress.

 

Also, if someone has mental health problems these are often caused by things beyond our control and can mean a person does not cope as well with stress.

 

Some people who suffer a lot with depression and anxiety will battle to recover, some won't get help, and will feel unable to recover without support. Others will have a lot of support and still not recover.

 

Some people are more sensitive and emotional than others, something we're pretty much born with and our upbringing plays a part too, this will affect how we react to horrible things.

 

Anne Frank is very inspiring to me, she remained hopeful much of the time, despite everything, but maybe because she had solid foundations, and she was popular, well loved, she had strength of mind, she was amazing, but not everyone would have coped in the way she did, so many would have had their spirit broken, this does not mean they chose to suffer, chose not be positive, it just means everyone is different, everyone's circumstances, personality, background, genetics are different.

 

This is fitting for me. Thank you for posting this. There have been times when I couldn't cope with what I was feeling, and I really didn't want to live anymore. There's a constant battle between the rational and the irrational when it's bad, but I'm too tired to go into more.

[TaraMaiden]

I expected this sort of response. And my answer to that is a question: "At what point is mental suffering no longer linked to physical factors?"

 

At this point.

 

On how he survived using the techniques he learned as a monk:

 

“You are receiving the anger and hatred and exchanging it with your love and compassion to that ignorant person who is torturing you... Whatever I learned (as a monk) I put into practice during my severe torture."

It can be done.

 

Palden Gyatso | Free Tibet

 

Palden Gyatso - 33 years in Chinese concentration camps

......

 

While the concentration camp scenarios are way worse than my personal example of lovesickness, it's just the extent of the suffering that differs, but not its nature. In both cases the source and nature of the suffering is physical and it is external in the sense that I do not control those physical factors by choice. So then how is the suffering a choice?

 

Pain is not a choice.

physical suffering, is not a choice.

 

the the source and nature of the suffering is physical and it is external in the sense that I do not control those physical factors by choice.

The source may be physical, but they are not laying a finger on you. Ergo, the suffering you perceive is inflicted, is emotional.

You cannot control the actions of others.

And it is their actions which are harmful.

Actions impulsed by Emotion.

 

Emotional suffering - is optional.

Edited May 10, 2012 by TaraMaiden