To mend or not to mend. Women w/kids respond

[fucpcg]

Okay, demeaning someone is abuse, and calling her an idiot is abuse and just because u feel the abuse is mild and a "tough woman could take it, doesnt matter " . Like I said abuse can go both ways, the female abusing also. But I kinda feel u both are blaming ur actions on a " victim of abuse " . which honestly makes me wanna throw up. Just because she has been abused . Give me a break. Sorry I am not trying to be mean, but read what u both have wrote. Nobody deserves abuse, NOBODY.. Bottom line. This is problem with our society, even with kids being abused.... Everyone protects the abusers , and blames the victims , UGH

 

You don't know our stories, so really its best you save the judgement. Im talking about my side, because that is what I need to be concerned about. You have no idea what I put up with, with this girls drinking, nastiness, insults, blowing me off at the dinner table when I spent hours and $100 in groceries on a homemade dinner she requested because she went out drinking instead and would simply be there "later", the nights she showed up drunk looking for sex before she blacked out on the bed, the mood swings and irritability of a constantly hung over almost 7 days a week person, the days her kids had to hang with me because she was soo misreable all she could do is put them down and I would make her go home and go to bed....

 

Yes after all this and a ton of stuff more, and after I broke up with her, we talked it thru, and we moved forward, and I called her my girlfriend. We get into one fight about her son, and I'm an abusive ******* that she has to declare to everyone around town she comes in contact with.

 

So you can save you BS cause you don't know my story, and just because you are the "girl" and I am the "guy" doess not allow for her rage to be relationship spats, and my rage is "abuse". This girl at times was the biggest monster I have ever dated. I am no more "abusive" than she was with me at times. And while I'm spending the past year in reflection and growth, she's spending it telling everyone at the bar I abused her, just before she gets drunk with that persona nd brings them home for sex.

 

If I am abusive and she's the poor helpless victim here, you are just as screwed up as her, and you have no idea what its like dealing with an alcohol addict.

[fucpcg]

Some things are unforgivable. Period. Abuse can at times easily fall in this category . This is the problem, everyone wants to blame someone and have a quick fix.

 

If abuse is soo unforgivable, then how come I was able to forgive my ex?

[hinatticus]

Hey fucpcg. Maybe we should give up on ever trusting women. I'm being sarcastic, I'm mean abusive, actually I'm trying to be funny.

 

Also Tornangel, what's worse, being abused for 2 years or growing up getting beaten, watching your mom get beat and having to see my own brother get beat down with ski poles? My dad tried laying a hand on me again when I was 16. By that point I told him " you touch me, I'll touch you back!". I think if you look at me and my ex, i may be the bigger victim. Thats not the point tho. I've grown, learned and forgave.

[tornangel]

Let me say what I said once again, okay. I said women abuse also. And I am not bitter , I just dont like hearing from anyone how tough people are okay and victims are not to deal with being demeaned or whatever. Second, It is great that u could forgive ur alcoholic ex , that doesnt mean everyone who has been abused can nor should . It isnt neccessary to heal. I am not bitter . I am just protective of those who cant protect themselves, as even they need a voice . I have been thru so much abuse u have no idea. And I am not trying to compete with who has been thru more. I was with an alcoholic who beat me for 3 yrs every other week, I was beat , molested and emotionally abused most of my life. But I will be damned if I am anyones victim. I treid to love people who could not love me back and were sick. That had nothing to do with me as a person. It hurt my heart, and I cant help that. But some abuse can not be forgiven. And in my case being abandoned by my ex was worse for me than the sexual or physical all together. Now I am not trying to take anything from u guys or what u went thru. But I was just saying that just because a woman or man has been victimized doesnt mean they were weak and not as tough as a non victimized person. They just were human and thats all. So I while I was never trying to judge, I cant stand to here anyone saying , leave the poor victims , they are so damaged, and etc. What has happened to this world anyways. Jesus shed blood for evryone , even all those victims.. We are all equal, noone is better than the next. We are simply in different places. And I dont know when I will ever forgive my ex. But at times its the only way we can protect ouselves. And its not because I am a woman and ur a man. That has nothing to do with it.

[fucpcg]

Which actually addresses what I was saying before. You may have an overreaction to what could be a normal everyday relationship argument. Your overreaction may be a defense mechanism to things you went thru in your life. I am very sorry you went thru these things, and I understand what it is like for women to be victims, my 5 sisters were abuse victims of my parents, and of men that came into their lives after. However us guys have gone thru **** as well, and sometimes we don't do as well as we hope, but doesn't mean we've earned a title of abuser. My 5 ex's now outside of this girl, have all told me "don't be silly" when I asked them if they ever found me abusive, yet this one ex declares it as a metal of honor in the horrific war of a relationship she had with me. How is it one girl can speak soo horribly of me, while all others are still very close, loving friends of mine? The only logical answer is the abuse victim had an overreaction to a relationship argument. Was I in the wrong? Yes. Does that by default make me an abuser, and her abuse victim? No. Is it unbelievably painful to be called abusive nonstop by an exgirlfriend you loved? No have no idea, especially when you have put your heart and soul into a relationship, given all that you could, gave more than should be expected in compassion and forgiveness, then find out your ex speaks nothing and sees nothing of you other than "abuser" when referring to you.

 

She was hurt, I get that, and I feel bad. However the response on their end is not "carte blanche" to say and do whatever to hurt the other person. That actually by definition makes you an abuser as well. I have a very close girlfriend who ended a relationship with a guy she was with who was abusive, they were together about as long as my ex and her husband. After splitting, she didn't run around town and the bars telling everyone how horribly she was abused. She broke up with him, started a new life with her children, started networking with good friends, and I helped set her up with her new fiance, who she has a wonderful life with, they share their children together, their lives together, and are a family together. She doesn't talk to anyone about what she went thru with her husband, or how horrible it was, or all the damage he did, how he was with kids, etc. She closed that chapter, she moved on. The only reason we talk about it, is in her efforts to help me in what happened in my relationship with my ex.

 

Running around calling someone abusive, who is undeserving, is painful and damaging. We all screw up. If you cant' give compassion and forgiveness for someone losing their temper, or even worse crucify him, while at the same time expecting compassion and forgiveness for at times acting poorly because of what you went thru with a prior abusive relationship, you are not a good and fair person. If you truly went thru abusive relationships in your life, you know that you are scarred, and that your own scars cause you to act poorly at times as well, and this I know for a fact. Judge not lest ye be judged yourself.

 

The tone in which hinatticus writes in here with tells me he is not an evil abusive person. True abusers don't feel remorse for their actions. Don't feel you know his story, or know who he is, because you know your story.

[fucpcg]

I think if you look at me and my ex, i may be the bigger victim. Thats not the point tho. I've grown, learned and forgave.

 

MANY people have made the case to me how abusive my ex is to me, under the veil of being abused, and every one of those people were actually women, some with their own stories of abusive relationships. Additionally, three of these women are mental health professionals.

 

Thats not the point tho. I've grown, learned and forgave

 

This is what makes you a man, this is what tends to disprove you are "abusive". I could start running around town now telling everyone what a horrible bitch my ex is, and how abusive she is by running around town telling everyone I'm the abuser, and how PHD Psychologists back me up on this one. That would make things easy, make me look better, and give me the ability to say "see I AM a good person, and I have NOTHING to work on as a man, I just dated the wrong woman, ask the professionals". But if I did that, what would I learn from all this? Nothing. How would I use it to become a better man? I wouldn't.

[hinatticus]

Fucpcg. Thanks for acknowledging that I am not evil.

 

To Tornangel. Do you believe what I put my ex through should be forgiven? I never beat her, called her derogatory names, or controlled her in any way. She makes more money than me, she's gone out with friends more than I ever did(in fact she wanted me to go out more, but I'm 33 with a new baby. Sorry if I just wanna spend time with him). People say abuse victims are controlled. What's the definition of controlled anyway? I believe both parties in a relationship should have some control. I've told my ex "when you're right you're right". I don't always "win" arguments. She spends her money freely(gets a $600 a month personal trainer), I haven't bought myself anything in ages(maybe some video games). So I get to control some things. Like where to put my tv or where to put the couch. I just hate when people generalize. There are so many different dynamics to a relationship.

 

Anyway. My ex called me at work today. Turns out she's working late and she asked if I could pick our son up from daycare. I agreed even though it's her day with him. I just wanna be with him so I agreed. I could've been a douche and said its your day, deal with it! But at my core I am a very good hearted person. It's my periphery(anger issues) that needs work!

[flitzanu]

Ive been reading lots of posts here and it is helping me through this. I won't go into all the details cuz I feel like I'm on the right path(but who knows for sure). Anyway we were together 4.5 years and have a 21 month baby. Im 33 and shes 26. We've been living apart for a month, been broken up for just over two months now.

 

We've had our usual relationship problems but those aren't the real problems. She has a background of abusive relationships and her dad left when she was young. I now know how emotionally abusive I was to her. In reality on a scale of 1 to 10, I probably was a 4 or 5. She felt the abuse was probably closer to 7-8. I never said stuff like, where's my dinner bitch, or why are you late whore. It was more along the lines of letting petty resentments(her leaving dishes out for days or making me wait everytime I picked her up) build up. Then I would bring it up and that would come across as nit picking. Things would escalate to the point of both of us yelling(me a lot louder), then would come me demeaning her. She would contradict herself and I would say "if you believe that you're an idiot".

 

Now, I know any kind of abuse is terrible and I've felt great shame and guilt. I'm seeing a counselor and I can honestly say I'm a lot calmer now. I know it takes a long time to change but I've been working on this stuff my whole life. It's just now I have to speed up progress plus I have more tools(counselor). My counselor said relationships are 50/50 and the stuff my ex has said to me were bad as well. She would be very sarcastic and mimic me while we argued. That drove me nuts. Having my counselor say that took a bit of blame off of me. Regardless, I feel terrible that my actions caused her so much pain. I cry of shame and not really sadness.

 

So right now I'm in LC because we share a child. I've done my snooping and there really isn't another guy, but that's beside the point. I'm the one who ****ed up more and I feel I need to fix this. If there is another guy I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I never call or text her unless she initiates. It's usually about our son then progresses to her asking me what I've been up to. I'll take her shopping every once in a while cuz I have a vehicle and she doesn't. I feel like I need to be taking care of my family cuz I don't want to be a deadbeat dad. I'm great with my son, that's never been an issue. We are 50/50 when it comes to him.

 

My question is this. How much time and space should I be giving her. Should i even help her out or let her struggle on her own? Some of my friends may think I'm being too nice to her, but remember I ****ed up. I haven't brought up relationship talk. Whenever we do see each other it's great. We're happy and she talks a lot about her day. She'll make me food and buys me stuff(not gifts, but snacks or food, gas etc,). I wonder if she's just being nice to so I don't blow up. I know I shouldn't try reading her mind.

 

I've done the usual. Bettering myself, hanging with friends and family, reading etc. but I hurt her so I feel guilty about being selfish right now. At the same time I don't want to push her further away or become a doormat. There's a fine line between being a man(good father) and being a doormat.

 

Any response is appreciated. Especially from the females out there with kids.

There's so much I've left out so if you guys have any questions that are pertinent, ask and I'll answer.

Thanks

 

i caught your comment on the other thread wondering if i'd give you some advice (i think that was for me).

 

first off, i feel you on the "abuse" side of it. you can't beat yourself up over it though, from the sounds of it you didn't beat her or physically mistreat her, and unless you've left it out, it doesn't sound like you "deprived" her of anything. i can relate to it, mainly because i'm the first to admit that i'm an arrogant prick. haha. for me though, it comes out during disagreement and argument. i can really quickly resort to belittling people, and it certainly isn't a positive or helpful trait...but i've started recognizing it in myself, which is why i can say i can at least relate.

 

thing is, you said you're getting professional help for it, and that's a huge thing. by no means am i a therapist, but i've gone through my share of anti-depressants and stress meds, and i can often tell a world of difference. there are so many things outside of your control that can affect your mood and such, so hopefully your counselor is probing those things to find the catalyst for what sets you on edge so easily.

 

now, "proving" to her you've changed, that's where it becomes rather...impossible. nothing you do or say is ever going to change that opinion she has, it's something she is going to have to see and experience for herself. she'll need to come to the realization that you've improved yourself, and also that you've improved for YOU, and not just to impress her.

 

it would be really easy for her to just accuse you of changing or doing things because YOU know it's what she wants. that was the issue i had. i knew how i should have been acting...and when i did those things, i was just accused of being fake, and that i couldn't change "overnight" and it just seemed to piss her off even more.

 

the whole kid thing changes the scenario so much more though. it's admirable that you're doing your part and being there for the child as a father and helping provide, otherwise she could be legally pursuing you for those things, and severely limiting your time in the child's life. that's a huge thing that is still in jeopardy though, as the result of your interactions could push her to that. so, wow. that's a heavy situation.

 

the breakup is still really fresh, so it's pretty tough to tell what direction you should go. and being the one that wants to work things out and reconcile, you've got to be careful not to push too hard. from my own experience, and at least most of the stories here...it's the "persistence" that can really push someone away from you. they don't want to deal with the stress of having to make a decision about the relationship, and they certainly don't want to be faced with an ultimatum on having to "choose" right now.

 

also for once, i'd say that i'm inclined to believe you, that chances seem slim that this is all because of another guy. could be that both of you just needed some time away from being at each other's throats to start focusing on yourselves and doing what's right for the child.

 

the gray areas, at least in my opinion, are going to be to not give her the "comfort" of the boyfriend role, because you're not getting the benefits of that, not just the intimacy i mean. she surely enjoys having you around as the child's father, and also as a friend for support, but since that's not the limit of what you want from the situation, you need to start watching those thin lines and not let yourself be the "pseudo boyfriend". ya know?

 

you may start slowly by focusing on the child, and less on "her". like, don't keep doing things a boyfriend would do, but continue doing what a father would do. and certainly don't let yourself be available 100% of the time whenever she wants to see or hang out with you. give her some space to be a person and be a mother without you constantly around. i think your current goal/step is to do your best not to push any issues on her, and definitely don't read into anything she's doing or saying.

 

now i'm going to read through the replies, since i wanted to reply before reading any of the other advice

[hinatticus]

Thanks for replying flitz. And wow, I thought I was gonna get shat on by you. You actually made me feel really good.

 

first off, i feel you on the "abuse" side of it. you can't beat yourself up over it though, from the sounds of it you didn't beat her or physically mistreat her, and unless you've left it out, it doesn't sound like you "deprived" her of anything. i can relate to it, mainly because i'm the first to admit that i'm an arrogant prick. haha. for me though, it comes out during disagreement and argument. i can really quickly resort to belittling people, and it certainly isn't a positive or helpful trait...but i've started recognizing it in myself, which is why i can say i can at least relate.

that's me exactly, well except for the arrogant part. I'm still a prick tho, but im the first to admit it(i guess second after someone points it out, but ill admit it)I've calmed down a lot in my years.

 

it would be really easy for her to just accuse you of changing or doing things because YOU know it's what she wants. that was the issue i had. i knew how i should have been acting...and when i did those things, i was just accused of being fake, and that i couldn't change "overnight" and it just seemed to piss her off even more.

I think I've passed that phase. She was so freakin mad at me for changing before, saying too little too late and so on, but I think I'm slowly breaking her ice brick wall down. She was and still is resentful but a little less now.

 

they don't want to deal with the stress of having to make a decision about the relationship, and they certainly don't want to be faced with an ultimatum on having to "choose" right now.

I never thought of it that way. Thanks. I guess time needs to go by..and me not pissing her off anymore than need be.

 

also for once, i'd say that i'm inclined to believe you, that chances seem slim that this is all because of another guy. could be that both of you just needed some time away from being at each other's throats to start focusing on yourselves and doing what's right for the child.

this was the part I wanted to see what you'd say. I snooped through her fb msg's and there was a guy pouring his freakin heart onto her, but there was zero reciprocation on her part. She even said she doesnt want to lead him on. I was proud of her for that and still have respect for her. She could've easily said ya let's go have sex or at least a date. My bro says she was probably lonely and needed her ego stroked. I agreed.

 

you may start slowly by focusing on the child, and less on "her". like, don't keep doing things a boyfriend would do, but continue doing what a father would do. and certainly don't let yourself be available 100% of the time whenever she wants to see or hang out with you. give her some space to be a person and be a mother without you constantly around. i think your current goal/step is to do your best not to push any issues on her, and definitely don't read into anything she's doing or saying.

I think I've accomplished that part somewhat. Now I'm slowly working the dating angle again. In two weeks my buddy has a gig that I invited her to. She seems really interested. I just gotta find a babysitter cuz it happens to be on the day she has our kid.

 

I have him til Wednesday so this is usually the part where I go dark. Practically zero contact unless she asks about our son.

 

On a positive note. She has accepted some relationship books I gave her and she sent me a text of her singing a song again. I love her voice and she knows it. That was today. So I think I won't push my luck any further and let her be for the next few days.

 

After reading about your love letters revisited I kinda lost some hope. Your reply here gives me some hope again. And I absolutely hate hope, I've never hoped for anything in my life except this!

 

Thanks again flitz. You and fucpcg are good sh*t

[flitzanu]

hehe, well, normally i'd totally destroy all hope in someone's story, but yours actually feels like there's a slight glimmer left. normally the problem is in the dumper's behavior, and in this case she doesn't seem to be acting shady or secretive or sneaky, so that's at least one decent sign that is indicating she was recognizing the problem between the two of you, and not just running off with some other dude to try to "fix it".

 

it sounds like things are remaining pretty neutral between the two of you, so that's at least better than fighting and negativity. just be sure not to fall too deep into the "friend zone".

[hinatticus]

I hear ya flitz. My ex is a really strong and independent girl, but sometimes she has her moments where her emotions run wild(she's a chick after all).

 

The thing about the friend zone thing is really confusing for me. We are co parenting so that makes entering the friend zone really easy. At the same time I think I need to enter friend zone to get to date zone again. There's no way she'll want to date me without getting to know the "new" me. It's a frickin balancing act. The timing has to be perfect. I gotta give her space but not take too long otherwise I end up in dreaded friend zone. If I move too fast that'll push her away. I think going to my buddy's gig on the 24th should be considered a small tiny baby step out of the friend zone. Agree or disagree?

[flitzanu]

i think going to the gig will be a good test, and my advice would be to NOT treat her like your date, let HER treat you like her date. like, sure buy her drinks or be a gentleman, but don't try to like, initiate any intimate contact. try some slight things though, like, touch her arm when you tell her a story, something casual you know? if she starts "feelin it" she will most likely be reciprocating with subtle physical signs too.

 

you gotta be really careful on this one not to push too hard!

[hinatticus]

Gotcha. Should be interesting if we actually make it out. Gotta get a babysitter first. I'm pretty good with not being too aggressive on a "first" date. I just have to remember not to read too much into her on that night. Unless ofcourse she flat out says lets try again. Ive had setbacks before and handled them pretty good. Man, the 24th can't come soon enough!

[flitzanu]

i'll be rooting for you

[hinatticus]

Looks like the gig on the 24th is a 50/50 chance they will play. This show is a small one and they might bail. They didn't really want this show in the first place, but they have a bigger better one on June 2nd that I will ask her to go to. It's on a Saturday so it should be easier to get a babysitter.

 

Thanks for the root flitz! I need all the rooting I can get.

 

On a side note.. You've been here for awhile and I was wondering if you've witnessed any successful reconciliations. Granted, most people who get back together stop coming here, but it surely must happen.

 

I read some of wilsonx's posts from awhile back, did he ever get his girl back. I'm guessing not since most of his posts are negative. Seems like he went through a crazy transformation. He seems to embrace his anger now. I'd be interested to hear what he'd say about my situation. Maybe I'll give him a shout.

 

I wish that gunny dude was still around. He seemed like an old guy who's been through the ringer a few times. He probably could've given me some good insights.

 

On another side note... Do you know how to change my thread title? I put I wanted women with kids to reply. Im thinking I should've left that out so I could get more hits. Or maybe my story just isn't too exciting. Tornangel replied but she seems kinda bitter. She's probably nice, but her view is heavily biased. I was hoping to get a few vets of the site to hear what they'd say. Oh well.

[flitzanu]

hehe, the few stories i've seen that people get back together usually is based on false hope, that one person believe it has happened but the other doesn't, and ends up with the dumpee being hurt again. i mean, it happens, but after an angry breakup...very very rarely. i've witnessed it in person a couple times, but there is so much truth in "your ex is an ex for a reason".

 

most of us dumpers want our exes because we think they're the best thing ever, but after enough time, we tend to realize they weren't all that great. you ever see the movie "500 Days of Summer"? if not, watch it. also...watch "Closer" with Jude Law, it's another VERY realistic love story about "the other woman/man".

 

not sure on the title change, i think it's probably somethign that had to have been edited right away, probably can't change it so far past the date now.

[hinatticus]

I'll check those movies out. I just hope it doesn't set me back with my emotional progress. I was a fracken mess the first two weeks.

 

I know most reconciliations are pipe dreams but this time I'm thinking having a child plus my transformation into "new" me will be enough. I know a guy who was separated for 2 1/2 years before they got back together, there were children involved in that one. My good friend went through something similar and was apart for 6 months before they reconciled and got married. They have kids too. I almost feel having kids makes it a tiny tiny tiny bit easier to reconcile. It also makes it so much more painful too though.

 

And why the heck hadn't Wilson commented yet!? I might have to pm him or start a thread calling for his expertise. Although it seems like he specializes in gigs break ups without kids involved. Either way I love his brutal harsh honesty. I love how he calls people idiots. I'm trying to stop calling people idiots but it makes me smile when someone else does it.

 

I should call the thread "Wiiiiiiiiiilson! Help me you idiot!" that might get his attention.

 

Anyway, the guys show on the 24th is cancelled but the June 2nd one will be a good one. Outdoors and all day. I'll ask her out to that one.

[KathyM]

Ive been reading lots of posts here and it is helping me through this. I won't go into all the details cuz I feel like I'm on the right path(but who knows for sure). Anyway we were together 4.5 years and have a 21 month baby. Im 33 and shes 26. We've been living apart for a month, been broken up for just over two months now.

 

We've had our usual relationship problems but those aren't the real problems. She has a background of abusive relationships and her dad left when she was young. I now know how emotionally abusive I was to her. In reality on a scale of 1 to 10, I probably was a 4 or 5. She felt the abuse was probably closer to 7-8. I never said stuff like, where's my dinner bitch, or why are you late whore. It was more along the lines of letting petty resentments(her leaving dishes out for days or making me wait everytime I picked her up) build up. Then I would bring it up and that would come across as nit picking. Things would escalate to the point of both of us yelling(me a lot louder), then would come me demeaning her. She would contradict herself and I would say "if you believe that you're an idiot".

 

Now, I know any kind of abuse is terrible and I've felt great shame and guilt. I'm seeing a counselor and I can honestly say I'm a lot calmer now. I know it takes a long time to change but I've been working on this stuff my whole life. It's just now I have to speed up progress plus I have more tools(counselor). My counselor said relationships are 50/50 and the stuff my ex has said to me were bad as well. She would be very sarcastic and mimic me while we argued. That drove me nuts. Having my counselor say that took a bit of blame off of me. Regardless, I feel terrible that my actions caused her so much pain. I cry of shame and not really sadness.

 

So right now I'm in LC because we share a child. I've done my snooping and there really isn't another guy, but that's beside the point. I'm the one who ****ed up more and I feel I need to fix this. If there is another guy I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I never call or text her unless she initiates. It's usually about our son then progresses to her asking me what I've been up to. I'll take her shopping every once in a while cuz I have a vehicle and she doesn't. I feel like I need to be taking care of my family cuz I don't want to be a deadbeat dad. I'm great with my son, that's never been an issue. We are 50/50 when it comes to him.

 

My question is this. How much time and space should I be giving her. Should i even help her out or let her struggle on her own? Some of my friends may think I'm being too nice to her, but remember I ****ed up. I haven't brought up relationship talk. Whenever we do see each other it's great. We're happy and she talks a lot about her day. She'll make me food and buys me stuff(not gifts, but snacks or food, gas etc,). I wonder if she's just being nice to so I don't blow up. I know I shouldn't try reading her mind.

 

I've done the usual. Bettering myself, hanging with friends and family, reading etc. but I hurt her so I feel guilty about being selfish right now. At the same time I don't want to push her further away or become a doormat. There's a fine line between being a man(good father) and being a doormat.

 

Any response is appreciated. Especially from the females out there with kids.

There's so much I've left out so if you guys have any questions that are pertinent, ask and I'll answer.

Thanks

I haven't read the responses on the thread, since it's pretty long, but just to respond to the OP, I vote you try to mend the relationship. You are apparently working on your anger issues in counseling, and working on being a better, healthier person. I would suggest you try to build back your relationship gradually. I know she's not real receptive to the idea right now, but I would suggest you ask her to go out for coffee or dinner "to discuss your son", and then on the "date", share with her pleasant interactions regarding your son, discuss parenting, and talk about insights you've learned in counseling, and show an interest in what is going on in her life. Be a fun and interesting "date" and let her see the side of you that she fell in love with originally. It may be possible to recapture those feelings for each other. I think it's worth a try. Don't pressure her to get back together, or that will likely backfire. Just keep in contact. Arrange time to go out under the guise of parenting talks, and gradually build up the attraction again. It's worth a try, and I think you should try to work on getting back together. You just have to progress gradually to get through the resistance, and hopefully she will eventually see that you have changed for the better and deserve another chance. Good luck. I know a family where the husband and wife were separated for seven months and were certain they were going to divorce, and they managed to reconcile, so it can happen. It's worth a try. You have the advantage of having a son, so you have an excuse to stay in contact with her. That's your chance to try to work your way back into her heart. But she has to see for herself that you have changed, and that you deserve another chance.

[hinatticus]

Thanks Kathy. Everything you've stated is basically what I'm doing at the moment. Reading books(relationship, anger etc), counseling, I've made amends with her mother, her best friend actually told my ex to tell me that she doesn't hate me(all of her friends and family "hated" me), I thought that one was a biggie(having an ex's best friend showing a bit of support is always good), she accepted some of the books I've been reading, she might go to a friends show on June 2nd(that's my "date" chance), we've hung out as a family a couple of times(threw the football around, she loves doing that;), every time I see her I am cheery and calm, she got a tattoo yesterday and even talked about me with her tattoist(I need a major touch up on one of my tats), basically I know it's gonna take time so I feel the best solution is to be there for her(not too much tho),give her space, and most importantly, remain calm even when she explodes! Wow that's a run in sentence If I've ever written one.

 

I'm hopeful because of the responses I'm getting. This place has definitely become one of the tools in my tool box.

 

Thanks again.

[hinatticus]

Hey Kathy... About that family you know. Were there any key points that helped with the reconciliation? Did one partner want nothing to do with the other? I know every relationship is different, but there has to be some commonalities. Are there any signs to look for or is reading into anything at this point, pointless? Was there a specific point when they agreed to mc? Or did they do it all on their own? I know, too many questions, but hearing about people getting back together peaks my interest. There's gotta be some kind of blueprint. Maybe it was just luck. Now I'm racking my brain. I should stop.

 

Flitz. I'm watching "closer" now and I vaguely remember seeing this before. I'm starting to feel depressed watching people in relationships. I might have to switch it up to misfits(cool show about yahoos with superpowers!)

 

Anyway. Time for my journal entry... Just dropped off my son at ex's place. She showed me her new tattoos and I really like them. We talked for about ten minutes while my truck was still running. I think she is pretty much a go for June 2nd. She even agreed to ask her mom to babysit. I think it being another 2 weeks will build up her excitement for it. She actually likes their music. The lead singer is my journeyman and he even wrote a song about my situation! That song he wrote is really good. I've heard a bunch of their new songs they're writing and they all sound really good. I've been telling my ex about the songs so hopefully that adds to her excitement.

I've been really working on becoming an active listener so I hope she senses that im validating her feelings and not just criticizing or offering solutions. Everytime she mentions her job or family is a chance for me to practice my new listening skills. Ever try active listening? Paraphrasing is key! Man it feels like I'm in university again. Study study study! I'm always up for learning a new skill, so here goes nothing I guess...

[hinatticus]

Havent updated in awhile so here goes.

 

My friends gig was a bust. The show was awesome but her fitness thing she went to started in the evening, not the afternoon. So she was basically there the whole time. We texted back and forth a bit that night.

 

My counseling has been going good and we are currently talking about when I should formally apologize. I'll see my counselor tomorrow and I'm gonna tell her I think my ex is ready for my apology. I know I am. I've been reading lots still and most importantly practicing what I've learned.

 

Things in the past few weeks have been mostly positive. But I still get the cold shoulder(expected). When I see her in person things are really good. It's the texting which can be at times very cold. Sometimes she will text promptly and with smilies and all that cute stuff. She will tell me to have a great day and so on. Other times it's a response after a long while.

 

Positive things:

I took her driving(she doesn't have her license yet). This one to me is a big deal cuz when we were together she didn't want me to teach her cuz she was scared I would get mad at her.

Texting has become friendlier

She commented that my arms look bigger

She came with me to my friend's house for father's day(she had a good time, even bought me a small gift)

We sat in my truck for a while looking at pictures when I was dropping her off

She wanted to come by and play rockband(that didn't happen cuz it got late)

We ended up playing rockband tonight( even had a few drinks)

 

Negative things:

Texting sucks ass sometimes. She doesn't answer questions and she doesn't seem happy sometimes.

 

I guess that's all that's negative right now although I still feel horrible sometimes. It feels like I've made some small baby steps, but I feel like I need a true step in the right direction. A real date night.

 

I'm thinking after I give her my true apology I might ask her out to something. What would be appropriate? Drinks? Movie? Dinner? A drive? I have no clue. Am i fooling myself? Am I stuck in friend zone? I think under the circumstances I need to get into friend zone first(but who knows). I'm still pretty sure there is no new guy on the scene. It's been 4 months now and I'm pretty sure I'd know about a new guy. Why would she come over tonight to play rockband? Or go to MY friend's house for father's day.

 

Any comments or suggestions are welcome. I'm gonna go and have another drink.

Thanks

[fucpcg]

Something personal, where you can talk. I never take a date to a movie. I take someone I am dating, but not a date. You two are starting over, you need to communicate, see how it feels and where it leads. If my ex wanted to talk today, I'd say lets grab a couple milkshakes, head to the beach, and watch the sunset and talk.

[hinatticus]

The beach sounds good. It's just that our son poses a small problem. Finding a babysitter is tough sometimes. Plus my son loves the beach. Hmmm what to do. We've had a few family days, just gotta get that date in there some how.

 

Thanks for the reply fucpcg.

[hinatticus]

So I just had an awful conversation with my ex. My counselor told me to have a little talk with her unless she gets emotional, stop. So I tried stopping the conversation which just upset her more.

 

First I wanna say she seemed upset before I even saw her(not with me). I just wanted to give her an update with my progress and she asked why I was saying all this. I wanted her to know all that I've done and she got all snarky with me saying do I deserve a medal! She told me she doesn't want me to do anything that will make me think I'll get back with her. Yet my counselor was saying her ACTIONS were very positive. We were both crying like little babies.

 

She kept telling me why I didn't do any if this before. I thought we had already gone over that! I was a little bitch who thought I didn't need to fix anything. I've learned from my mistakes and I'm trying my hardest to improve myself. My counselor says I'm doing all the right things and that I'm on a good path. She even said I don't really need anymore counseling but I wanted to continue anyway! My ex even says im not reacting to the whole break up like she thought I would. I would've normally stayed angry and cut her outta my life. Instead I'm taking a long hard look at myself and I'm trying to improve.

 

My counselor says I've hurt her to the core and she needs time. I really thought she was warming up to me. Maybe she was and her having a bad day didn't help my situation.

 

I think I just need to give her some more space. Kinda hard though cuz in ginba see her tomorrow. Any suggestions?

 

I feel so heart broken right now. Feels like I'm at square one again. Am I over reacting?

[flitzanu]

tough to say, but the least i COULD say about it is, it certainly doesn't sound like she's receptive enough to hear those things. sounds like you're right about giving her more space.