To mend or not to mend. Women w/kids respond

[hinatticus]

Well, she apologized for acting angry that day. I even took her out for sushi a couple of days ago. And last night I took her grocery shopping and she invited me up to eat the mc donalds(I know it's crap food, but we like it sometimes) I bought us. We chatted a bit about random stuff. Her texting seems better too, but I gotta remember not to read too much into them. Go with the flow is how I'm trying to deal.

We're even celebrating our sons Bday together at the beach with her family/friends and mine as well.

I wish my situation was easier to figure out. I mean I can't do nc because we have to see each other and im going to help her when I can. She is the mother of my child after all. I guess I'm just gonna have to keep being kind to her until she sees more proof of my change. In over 4 months now she hasn't seen me yell or belittle her. I actually feel guilty when I start to get angry.

Anyway my ex asked me to pick up our son from daycare cuz she has to work late. Can't wait to see him again.

Thanks flitz. I'll keep giving her the space she needs and keep helping her when I can. At least I know I'm doing the right things. I think.....

[hinatticus]

Today I feel down but I don't really know why. Maybe because it's a Saturday night and I feel alone. Anyway today was actually a good day. I picked my son up at my ex's in the morning and she was beautiful as ever. No make up on or anything. We talked for a bit in the front loop where I was waiting. She seems to be holding conversations a bit longer and seems nice and friendly.

 

We had plans to check out the beach where we are having our son's Bday next month. After i picked my son up i went to the store to get my son some new swimming trucks and snacks. I pick her up around 11:30 and we go. There was a bit of a mix up(I went to her work to pick her up instead of her place, she was at work but I guess she bussed home), normally I would've gotten mad but I played it cool cuz my counseling is helping. I don't want to be mad around her anymore. Anyway, pretty much the whole way she is singing in my car to my music which she likes a lot(chevelle, demon hunter, blink 182, Beatles etc). I'm basically in heaven cuz I love her voice and she seems happy.

We get to the beach and it's actually pretty nice. It was a very hot day and our son had a blast. The sh*tty thing is we had to cut it short cuz she was meeting her work friend back in the city;( On the drive home she is singing again. Loved it! I drop her off at the mall where she is meeting her friend and we say bye. It was a great day.

 

I feel bad right now because I miss her. I think I feel more upset at the fact she is going to the beach with work friends on Canada day. That and the fact she hasn't texted me back today after telling her I had a great time with her today. I know I'm supposed to take what I get and not expect anything. It's just hard.

 

I think today was a win for me. Was it? I'm really trying hard to do this friends into reconciliation thing with her. I've even told her that and she says she doesn't want to lead me on or get my hopes up. To that I just keep telling myself what I've been told by others... DON'T believe everything she says but go by her actions. After all I've hurt her bad and lost her trust, so I gotta be patient.

[hinatticus]

So last was a great time with the ex. It's her weekend with him and she texted me that I could come by to visit him. I obviously say yes cuz I love seeing him. She then texts back that maybe she could just come over and we could play some rockband until our son falls asleep.

 

We end up having a great time, eating, drinking some and playing rockband. When I dropped her off we end up talking in my car for almost two hours. Talked a bit about the relationship. She tells me she enjoys hanging out with me but doesn't want to lead me on. She can't get back into this relationship right now. She's not interested in dating anyone else either. She tells me to go and date people to see what's out there. Meanwhile I'm telling her that she is the only one I want. I have this gut feeling she is testing me big time. She thinks all I miss is the family aspect and not her. After all I did neglect her and was very angry towards her sometimes. All I want to do is show her my consistent kindness and fondness towards her.

 

She worked today so I agreed to watch our son today. When she came by after work we went out grocery shopping and she came back to my place and made us dinner. Also she always looks good. She even put some make up on while she was waiting in my truck. I read somewhere when an ex does that it's a positive. I read into things too much I think.

 

Why do her words seem cold but her actions are warm?

 

Im gonna see her tomorrow too cuz she needs to use my computer to send out Bday invites for our son.

 

Man it's so hard to figure out how to play this.

[hinatticus]

Yesterday was great then terrible.

 

I told her about a song she should learn. I was practicing it on guitar and I know she likes the song. She wanted to come over even tho it's her day with our son. We ate, had a couple of drinks and practiced our song. It was great.

 

Her friend texts and asks her to go out. My ex asked if it was alright I take my son for the night and she'd take him Saturday. I showed that I was upset but I still said sure. I was upset because when we were together, a friend of mine has a buddy who separated from his wife; I was disgusted when the wife asked her ex to babysit while she goes out. I thought my ex and I agreed on that and that's why I was upset. My ex sensed I was upset and lost it. The next hour and a half were a blur to me. I was so confused why she was so mad. She started telling me I shouldn't be doing all these nice things for her, we're broken up, she just wants to be friends, she doesn't want me to have expectations, she thinks it time for more space(even tho she wanted to come by today), she says its been 6 months and im still trying to get her back(its only been 5 months), she gave the relationship everything she could, she thinks I'm being nice to get her back.

 

So last night I write her an email apologizing for the way the night turned out and I respect her space. I'll give her that. This morning she texts me that she's sorry about last night, how she couldn't sleep and that she's still upset, but more sad. She's sad that we can't give each other what we want.

 

I know she enjoys my company but I guess she feels she's given me my chance and I screwed up badly. I'm not gonna let this setback hinder me. I'll give her space to calm down. I know she's stressing hard with work right now. She also feels she's not where she wants to be in life, job wise.

 

Argh. I hope I'm going about this the right way.

[Gunny376]

Ive been reading lots of posts here and it is helping me through this. I won't go into all the details cuz I feel like I'm on the right path(but who knows for sure). Anyway we were together 4.5 years and have a 21 month baby. Im 33 and shes 26. We've been living apart for a month, been broken up for just over two months now.

 

We've had our usual relationship problems but those aren't the real problems. She has a background of abusive relationships and her dad left when she was young. I now know how emotionally abusive I was to her. In reality on a scale of 1 to 10, I probably was a 4 or 5. She felt the abuse was probably closer to 7-8. I never said stuff like, where's my dinner bitch, or why are you late whore. It was more along the lines of letting petty resentments(her leaving dishes out for days or making me wait everytime I picked her up) build up. Then I would bring it up and that would come across as nit picking. Things would escalate to the point of both of us yelling(me a lot louder), then would come me demeaning her. She would contradict herself and I would say "if you believe that you're an idiot".

 

Now, I know any kind of abuse is terrible and I've felt great shame and guilt. I'm seeing a counselor and I can honestly say I'm a lot calmer now. I know it takes a long time to change but I've been working on this stuff my whole life. It's just now I have to speed up progress plus I have more tools(counselor). My counselor said relationships are 50/50 and the stuff my ex has said to me were bad as well. She would be very sarcastic and mimic me while we argued. That drove me nuts. Having my counselor say that took a bit of blame off of me. Regardless, I feel terrible that my actions caused her so much pain. I cry of shame and not really sadness.

 

So right now I'm in LC because we share a child. I've done my snooping and there really isn't another guy, but that's beside the point. I'm the one who ****ed up more and I feel I need to fix this. If there is another guy I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I never call or text her unless she initiates. It's usually about our son then progresses to her asking me what I've been up to. I'll take her shopping every once in a while cuz I have a vehicle and she doesn't. I feel like I need to be taking care of my family cuz I don't want to be a deadbeat dad. I'm great with my son, that's never been an issue. We are 50/50 when it comes to him.

 

My question is this. How much time and space should I be giving her. Should i even help her out or let her struggle on her own? Some of my friends may think I'm being too nice to her, but remember I ****ed up. I haven't brought up relationship talk. Whenever we do see each other it's great. We're happy and she talks a lot about her day. She'll make me food and buys me stuff(not gifts, but snacks or food, gas etc,). I wonder if she's just being nice to so I don't blow up. I know I shouldn't try reading her mind.

 

I've done the usual. Bettering myself, hanging with friends and family, reading etc. but I hurt her so I feel guilty about being selfish right now. At the same time I don't want to push her further away or become a doormat. There's a fine line between being a man(good father) and being a doormat.

 

Any response is appreciated. Especially from the females out there with kids.

There's so much I've left out so if you guys have any questions that are pertinent, ask and I'll answer.

Thanks

 

You asked for my input through a PM and so here is my 2 cents worth. That and a buck~and fifty-eight plus tip will get you a cup of coffee at the Waffle House.

 

I should qualify any statements by saying that I'm just another Smuck of a guy that's been through a lot in life, seen a lot, ~ got my azz handed to me more than a couple of times. I've been where a lot of people haven't been ~ where others have gone or are going? Been there, done that, seen that ~ been back there ~ come back ~ and gone again.

 

I don't have any and all of the answers to all of the question ~ nor all of the solutions to all of the problems. If and when I do? I'll get back with you on any and all of that.

 

I'm an older guy ~ fifty five ~ by the Grace of God Almight. I don't consider myself a fool ~ you don't get old being a fool! You don't get old being a fool! You don't see too many old fools running around!

 

I've learned a lot, and I know a lot ~ And by the Grace of God himself I'm above average intellegence and above average educated ~ both formally and informally. I read a lot, and I am a friend of the nearest local library and the libiasry is my friend.

 

I consider myself a scholar of sorts in that I truly seek out on a daily basis knowledge and wisdom ~ be it through a book, a tv program, the wisdom of an older person than I, or through the innoncene of a baby or child (Children can and have a lot to teach us ~ before Life gets a hold of them)

 

I think IMHO you've got a shot ~ mind you I said a shot ~ at getting back with the DW.

 

Now don't take that as though you were Moses just coming off of the mountain and just received a revelation from God Himself. I said in my honest opinion? You'v got a window of opportunity at getting back with the DW.

 

I say that in that she engages you in conversation other than about the child you share with her. She's still geniunely engaged with you mentally, emotionally, pyschologically. Your still a part of her life and she's obvioually still a part of yours. She's concerned with what your doing, how your doing, and what's going on in and with your life.

 

Doing the NC thing right now is the best thing you can do ~ not only for yourself ~ but for her as well. The two of you both needed to pull back and re-group.

 

One of the definitions of insanity is repeatedly doing the same thing over and over again ~ all the while expecting different results.

 

Its NOT so much that you need to change? Its that you need to get another and different attitude and perspective? Perspective has a lot to do with it? Its the whole looking at the half filled glass as either half empty or half full?

 

A Mother who's being a stay at home Mom all her life ~ who finally has and sends her youngest off? Is oftentimes divastated at the prospect? She's invested so much time, effort, energy...................herself into raising her children ~ her Life has come to be defined by living her life for and through her children. And now? Her reason and purporse for living Life is gone?

 

While another same SAHW ~ who has a different persepctive and attitude looks forward to lauchiing her last child onto their adventerous journey that is their Life. She looks forward to re-claiming thier bedroom ~ to turn it into her hobby room, etc?

 

A person who's just got fired is devastated? While another looks upon it as an opportunity to be freeed from a dead-end going no-where job with an un-appreciative boss?

 

Its not so much that you need to go spend mega-bucks on some psycholgist ~ or theapy and such. And I agree we all need to go and spend some time on the couch ~ just to piss away some money ~ to realize we're all in someway or the other ~ disfuntional ~ quirky ~ different ~ not so-called "NORMAL" (Whatever the Hell that is?)

 

None us are quote "NORMAL" ~ and that's because we're ALL are like snowflakes! All snowflakes are the same! But no two snowflakes are ever the same.

 

You need to quit being a fool and get yourself back into school. You need to educate yourself about the differences that exsist between a man and a woman. I'm not speaking just about the obvious physicallogical differences ~ but in the way men and women think. And why they think the way that the do?

 

Women's brains are literally hard-wired differently than men's. I should qualify this in saying in and off as a general rule ~ as there are deviations from the rule.

 

But generally speaking there are more cross lateral neruol connections in a woman's brains that there are a man's brain. Thus the reason why are more explicity verbal in description of things than men. This is also the reason why most men when they engage in an verbal arugment with a wom are going to loose 9 out of 10 times.

 

Women also typlically have about 10,000 more ofactory cells in their noses than men? This is the reason smell and aroma are more important to women than men.

 

Who and what we are as men and women ~ as individuals? Is pretty much more or less ~ about 80 to 90% set by the time we reach the age of five. So all the pyschologist and setting on the couch in the World isn't going to change a whole lot. All any of that is going to accomplish is for you to accept you are and as you are?

 

Acceptance of such is the Golden Key. You can piss away thousands of dollars and hours of time ~ Or? You can do it on you own?

 

Its called "Self-Actualizaton" ~ Accepting yourself for who and what you are as you are. Who you are as you are! "Take me for who I am ~ or leave me the Hell alone!"

 

Who we are and who we're actually are? Those are two totally and completely seperate things.

 

We get a lot of BS dumped on us about who we are, and who we're suppose to be, how we're suppose to walk, how we're suppose to talk. About what it means to be a real man, or a woman. We here a lot of stuff about "Manning Up" ~ etc.

 

We hear a lot about "Real Men don't cry" ~ this comes from our childhood ~ we hear it from our parents ~ etc. Its programed into us by them, by movies, by tv, by magaziness, by newspapers, by ads.

 

Women have their own level of hell about what popular and what it means to be a real woman, a real wife, a real mother. Women have the worse of it IMHO! Their dragging all this SERIOUS guilt around with them like an old cowboy dragging a dead horse through the desert. About not measuring up to the standard of ALL of the above.

 

The standard put forth before them by society, our culture, the damned media?

 

ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO MEET!

 

There's a lot of ground to cover ~ and I can't cover it all in one post. We need to get a dialog going here ~ because there's a lot that I can show you the way on. (What you learn and take away from it is up to you ~ take what you can ~ can use? Leave the rest)

 

For now ~ suffice to say? Its not so much that you need to change?

 

Its that you need to "Pull back, re-group" and "Re-train your brain!" You need to go at this with a new approach, a new perspective, a new attiude! You need a new skill set ~ and that may mean ~ is going to require your letting go of a lot things that you've learned about women, life, marriage, relationships, relating to women.

 

Right now? I honestl think you've got a good chance at reconcillation ~ but you've got to work from the position that what you had with the DW is Done, Did, and over-with.

 

You screwed up~ just as I did. But you did so because you simply didn't know any better than to do as you did, say what you said. You were ~ like I ignorant.(Defined as you just didn't know any better ~ stupid is when you know better but do or don't do something anyway)

 

I'll post more later, but leave you with the above to digest (Sleep on it for a day or more ~ new things take time for the brain to digest)

[hinatticus]

Thank you gunny.

 

A lot of what you said makes perfect sense to me. I was taking the approach that since I f*cked up I need to show her the changes. Now that it's been 5 months I think she sees some changes in me. I've always wanted to go nc for my sanity, but I was torn. Couldn't decide if pulling away would validate her in thinking I really don't give a damn. Plus how would she see any changes. Now that she's gotten a taste of my changes(I'm not an angry person or atleast I'm consciously aware of it) I will have to pull back and give her space.

 

I know it's not the most scientific book, but I've read "men are from mars women are from Venus", and have learned quite a bit from it. My situation has a few role reversals tho. I'm by no means a girly guy and she's not fully a guy-ish girl, but I can relate females and she's guy ish in some ways. I'm sensitive and she can be so strong(mentally) like a man.

 

You mention being older and you're not a fool. That's exactly the reason I wanted your help/wisdom. I really respect people older than me. My brother is a prime example.

 

I'm into knowledge as well. Are there any particular books you recommend? I've been doing a free online self mastery program and I'm considering purchasing the rest of the sessions. I'm really learning to be consciously aware of my emotions, ridding myself of false beliefs, changing perspectives(diverting my attention), I've learned I have a lot to be grateful for(daily journal entries for things in grateful for), ive learned I'm not always right, I've learned how to validate her feelings(actively listening to her when she speaks), and much more..

 

The part on acceptance. I accept a lot about who I am. The thing I didn't accept I WANT to change. The anger needs to go! With that said, I can honestly say I'm as close to accepting it's over as I've ever been. I tell myself everyday that she's not coming back. I still have that glimmer of hope though. She's always telling me this, "we can't be together.....right now". Always throws in the "right now" part. She has a lot going on at work. She works late and she feels she needs to focus on her goals and ambitions. She really likes hanging out with her work friends. She's only 26 so I feel she's going through that quarter life crisis.

 

So... Giving her space. In my situation how should I go about it? We have to meet every Wednesday night and weekend at some point. She will text asking about our boy, do I respond to these. I'd like to text her about our son as well. Should I behave business like or friendly and happy?

 

 

Do you think I should have a several month long game plan or should I just take it day by day?

 

Thanks gunny.

[Gunny376]

I think you should have a very flexable, bendable Life game plan. Always remember what John Lennon said, "Life is what happens when we make other plans!" And this Life Game Plan should be innovative and adpatable on a day-to-day basis as you go through Life. Improvising, adpating and over-coming on a day-to-day basis.

 

I've long ago have given up any and all concerns about what other may think is mascualine / feminine. In fact I don't give a damn what anyone says or thinks about me? Having done over twenty years in the United States Marine Corps, and having pursued other so-called "Manily Pursuits" yada, yada, yada..............................I long ago have more than validated in my mind. What others may say or think? Well they don't pay my bills and in I simply don't give a damn. Accept me and take me the way that I am ~ or leave me the Hell alone. I frankly could give a damn.

 

I don't know that I would say you f***** up. To do so you would have to have had knowledge and expereince. And I like you at the time simply just did not have the preresquistite knowledge nor experience.

 

"Men Are From Mars, and Women Are From Venus" is a good book, but its not the End All To Be All when it comes to books about relationships.

 

When you read these books, you have to go about the with the attitude of taking what you can use from them, and leave the rest. While there may be similarties between any one given individual / couple ~ we're all each and every one unique and differents.

 

Probally about the single resource that I can offer up to you at this time would be Ellen Kreigmans "Light Her Fire" its available in paperbook for around $5 or $6 or even cheaper on Amazon. And even though I've read the book back in the early 90's when it first came out and was on the New York TImes Best Sellers List, I've gotten a lot of milage out the CD audio which can go for around $150. But to me, was and has been money well spent. I got a lot of mileage out of just reading the paperback book. I would also recommend her "Light Her Fire".

 

In "Light Her Fire" she goes into communication and how to resolve arguments and disagreements. And also how to resolve issues at one party always being fifteen minutes early for everything, and the other always been "fashionablly late" She also goes into simply deciding on such issues as wheather to go and do something, eat at this or that resturant, go to this or that event.

 

In short she offers up some hard concerte ideas as to resolve a lot of problems in relationships. She gives you the new tools that you need and a whole lot of "news you could use" She also gives you about fifty ways to be romantic ~ while pointing out that rommance for most men is simply something that men aren't born with ~ but rather is a learned and acquired skils. The ideas that she gives are just to wet one's appetitte and to get one's creative and imaginative with being romantic. And to be truly romantic? One really needs to be specific and really know the person that is their "target" so to speak. Rommance at its best is very specific catering the individuality of the person ~ knowing their likes and dislikes etc. And it need not be expensive nor exhortbant as seen on tv, the movies, etc :o Indeed the simpler and cheaper, but yet tailored toward the individual? All the better and the bigger bang ~ effect.

 

It really is much like the equation E=r, when it comes to rommance (as with most any and all human endenvors. In which E equals an tremedous amount of effort in the beginning yeilding very little if any results. But with time, trial and error, etc it flips and becomes, e=R, in which one achieves large results with little effort.

 

I would also HIGHLY recommend the audio series from the MIdwest Center titled, "Attacking Anxiety and Depression" it will greatly help you to take a good hard luck at yourself, and how you live your life. I don't care who you are, your generally aren't going to get through Life without having to deal with anxiety and depression. Its the No. # 1 leading cause of people acting out, subsistence abuse, breakdown of marriages and depression.

 

Both audio series go into getting real about yourself and about your Life, and becoming grounded in the present and putting the past into the past, and leaviing the future in the future, concentrating living life at the pace your meant to live it ~ the present.

 

I would also recommend reading, "You Just Don't Understand" and "GenderSpeak" about cross-gender communications and the different ways that men and women communicate (Hint women tend to be more detailed orientated. drawn out, and in-direct in their communication style ~ while men are more to the point, curt, and direct in thier communication styles.

 

There are reasons from a historical and antropological view and argument as to why men and womens communication styles have evolved as they have. This gets into my recommending "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex,and Women Don't Get Enough Love" as well as "Why Men Don't Have Clue and Women Need Another Pair of Shoes" If you really want to get deep and heavy into the bio-chemical differences, there's "Brain Sex", which when you read it you will come to understand why certain people are are attracted to the "type" of person their attracted to, as well as understanding homosexuality, bisexuality, etc. I would also recommend you read National Geographic's February 2006 edition about "Love ~ The Chemical Reaction" and The Sceintific American Mind August 2012 editon of "His Brain, Her Brain ~ How We're Different" (You can send off for a re-print of the National Geographic Feb 2006 ~ The Scientific American is supposely still on the newstands)

 

For more romantic ideas and to get your creative juices flowing? I would recommend Rommance 101", "1001 Ways To Be Romantic" and "1001 More Ways To Be Romantic" I would also HIGHLY RECOMMEND you read "How To Satisfy A Woman Everytime And Have Her Beg For More!!!!!" Has some flakey stuff ~ but it describes sex strictly from a woman's point of view.

 

In the "Light Her Fire" Ellen goes into how to fight and how to reconcile with one another. Its basically about doing something you don't feel like to ~ the whole ACTION preceding FEELING like doing something. Which is oftentimes that case ~ such as your spouse wanting to go and do something ~ you don't feel like it, but you go anyway and end up having one of the best times of your life!

 

Once you've learned about all of this your attitude and perspective changes, and you begin acquiring the new knowledege base you need and the skill set that you need.

[hinatticus]

Thanks again gunny

 

I will pick up "light her fire" tomorrow. I will also check out the other material you've pointed out.

 

I agree with so much of what you're saying. I generally don't give a crap what people think of me either. I've cried in front of my friends, I told a guy on here to start journaling even tho he said someone told him its for girls and just judging me from my looks, it's clear I don't care what others think of me. I feel I have a lot of traits that I'll be able to follow your recommendations.

 

I will implement the adaptable flexible lifestyle you mention. It's a general term but I will find meaning in it. I just don't want to start dating because today I feel like and then tomorrow I regret that decision. I will adapt to my ex's and my situation. Right now for instance, she wants space. I'll give it to her. She texted today about a sale on cheese at the store. I've not responded to that text. Im generally a stubborn person and when I believe in something I find it hard to be flexible. I am learning that I'm not always right and what's right to me may not be right to someone else. I'll be more flexible in that category.

 

The material on the romancing will come in handy if we start a reconciliation. The sex with us was never really a problem. There were a couple issues with it but I've got solutions to those. I agree with a little more romance that's tailored to her. She's not the typical female in that sense. She would much rather enjoy a nice drive out in the country than say flowers/gifts and dinner. BUT she couldve had a little more romancing on my part.

 

I really appreciate the feedback. Thanks again.

[Gunny376]

Well the romancing isn't the sole preview of the man ~ that door swings both ways. Ellen also wrote and has a CD colletction titled "Light His Fire" for women. Indeed that was her initial.

 

Its not so much that men wan to be romanced in the traditional sense as presented on television, the movies, ad nausem. And like your wife? Most women really don't care all that much about the "traditional" romance?

 

Men and women both? What they're seeking is valiadition of their worth as individuals, human beings. Men just as women want to know they are wanted, needed, valued, appreciated.

[hinatticus]

I've learned that validation is key!

 

She was going to be my wife. We were engaged for a couple of months. It pains me to think about that.

 

Both of us were not big on marriage, but we lived as if we were married. I committed myself to that girl. It feels like a divorce to me.

[hinatticus]

Well, after all this time it seems my hard work is paying off.

 

The new people here won't know my story, but if any of you remember it, here's an update. (We all like updates anyway). It's been forever since I updated this thread. Since my last entry she's been dating and so have I. We still hung out all the time, did family stuff and had our ups and downs. It's been a crazy journey that's for sure.

 

Here's the crazy part.....

She said she wants to try again. She's going into counseling and wants to do couples therapy later. Problem is I'm still dating around. Nothing serious but now I gotta figure out a new game plan.

 

She wants to go slow and get to know the new me. She wants to go on a date with me. How crazy is this!

 

I think I have to play it cool to see how serious my ex is. In the meantime I have to slow down the dating and get off of OLD sites.

 

My counselor says its ok for me to have certain criteria met before we try again. One thing my ex has to do is be serious about counseling.

 

One day at a time I guess...

Edited April 9, 2013 by hinatticus