No contact rule does work - Ex has called

[miggsbucks]

lonestar

 

hey i wasnt trying to mess you up at all! it just wasnt clear in your original post, and the quote i mentioned was what lost in chicago said in his no contact guide, it was just a general comment made about kids in the no-contact debate. i was not implying that you were doing that. it just looked at first read that your ex didnt see his kid in 2 years. i'm really sorry, and yes my tone when i said "how messed up is that" does look a bit harsh now.

 

i actually read your story and went looking on the site for you to see if there were any similar themes going on, because i think the regulars on this thread don't have any kids involved, alls i can remember about kids was lost in chicago's no contact guide.

 

i'm not saying you were intruding on "my" thread at all, its not my thread, its dreamguys. i was just saying that your situation is so much more complex than the simple "no contact" business.

 

i'm truly sorry to have upset you, but it wasn't the intention.

[Lonestar]

Thank you for apologizing, but I wish that you had asked me questions before jumping to your own conclusion. We all come here because of our pain. I had tried to edit my post to add this but I was past the 20 minute mark, so I'll put it here in a quote:

 

And this does apply to "no contact." There are weeks that can go by where there is no need to talk about anything child related. I am trying to do that now, stay away except for business, instead of the stupid reasons we phone each other now to see if the other one says something about getting together. My contact with him is essentially the same as running into your X on the beach and saying hello in a kind manner. My beach just has a kid on it.

 

I am really trying right now NOT to have contact with him, and it's not easy. It's not fair that you would exclude me because of my parental status. I could use advice as well as anyone else here.

[miggsbucks]

i am not trying to exclude you lonestar, i am trying to figure out a way for you to illicit responses from people who have gone through the same type of stuff as you.

 

there are probably new people visiting the site all the time, people who may be going through the same type of stuff as you. i just think that your plight merits a brand new thread all of its own, because people browse the general page and see the titles of the threads.

 

sometimes when i feel like replying to people, i go to the general page and look for new ones, ones which have only had a few replies.

 

new users may be put off by going to this thread when they see how many replies its had, they'll know its not a new one.

 

awwww.. don't be thinking that your being excluded, youre not, were all hear to listen

[miggsbucks]

lonestar - what advice i feel may be of use is that i am a man, and if my ex (not the one i've spoken about on here, its the ex ex who i dumped i'm talking about here) offered me sex with no strings attached, i certainly would not take it as i would not want her to believe that we had a chance of getting back together. so its not necessarily a bad thing in your situation.

 

i don't think you can always go by the rule "he's a man, he won't say no" well some of us actually do. he must be one real cold hearted person (which there ARE VERY FEW of these type of people in this world, so i doubt he is one) if he took up your offer for sex without having any feelings for you.

 

i think you have more hope than a lot of us on here, and you should not feel despair. even though i don't have a kid and i maybe am not sure what i am talking about here, but sometimes the ex i want back - i wish we would have had a kid together so that i would have been able to still see her.

[Lonestar]

I don't want to start a new thread that's going to die out after the average 10 posts. I want to post where I know people keep coming back, because this is an ongoing issue with me and will continue to be since I can't stop wanting the guy after 2.5 years. This isn't my first time here. I've been following this thread for about a week, and also went back to read most of the history. I like what many of you have to say, and believe it or not, miggs, we think a lot of like. It's the same thing when it comes to the heart. We want our Xs back, but we want to keep our dignity intact while we do it. Maybe some of us have to realize that the X is never coming back or that the X is not worth it because we deserve better, but it still all feels the same.

 

I am currently hoping that giving my X the axe regarding no more sex and telling him I'm moving on might make him realize that he doesn't want to lose me AGAIN. I left the door open for him to contact me should he want to have a talk about these things, but I have to be damn sure that I do NOT call him again. If I do, then I might as well tell him straight out not to believe a word I say and walk all over me. I thought this would be a good place to vent my feelings about wanting to call him, or sleep with him, or whatever. I also want to see what others are feeling and going through, and I'm sick of lurking.

[nikkicam71]

Miggs,

 

you haven't talked to your ex at all in 40 days? How long broken up? Did she try to talk to you at all?

 

~Nikki

[Lonestar]

Thanks, and that's what I'm thinking too. I would not sleep with an X unless I still had feelings also. I have X's I could care less about, and the thought of sleeping with them makes me want to vomit. He must still care about me in some sense, and as much as I would like to keep up the sex with no strings, my feelings are eating me up because I want more. Maybe I should have played it cooler, because at least that contact might have led to another level. But I made my stand, and if I don't stick to it, I look weak, right?????

 

I'm worried I did the wrong thing, because another ten days will go by and I'll be wanting that contact again. A kid might seem like a good reason to get one to see their X, but I didn't want that to be the reason, and that's exactly why I set up the last two years so there would be NO contact. I desperately wanted to get over him. I just found out that I can't.

 

If by chance he does contact me, what should I do? I'm guessing he won't contact me about "us" but will find some other stupid reason. If he contacts me for sex, I'm not sure I'll be able to say no, because that will be the first time he has called me for it. I've done all the initiating so far in that department because he likes it that way. He like the attention and the fact that he's wanted. That's what he said, so if he initiates it, I'm guessing I should take that as a big step in my direction because he doesn't want it to end, No? Keep in mind that a full get back together is not an option at this time. I think we would both test the waters in private before dealing with the public (i.e. family and friends). I also think the sex was an excuse for us to see each other. We have no other reason without admitting we still feel something. I really appreciate your view of things, miggsbucks. Believe me it helps to know what guys think on the other end.

[Kanejd]

Dreamguy or any other "experts" in dealing with this sort of thing:

 

I would appreciate any advice becuase I'm in a bad state of mind right now and I never went through anything like this before. I (33 year old attorney) began dating Laura (25 year old retail store director) in the Summer of 2002. We fell in love almost within a week. She lived in Philadelphia and I lived in New York City. After six wonderful months, she moved in with me based on many expectations and promises of happiness on my part. I dropped the ball and let her down (not infidelity). Six months later she moved to Washington, DC. with her sister. She told me that she would consider dating again if I got my act together. However, I kept pushing her for many months until she pulled completely away from me. SHe fell out of love and I am still in love.

 

Two months later we began to talk again. I had landed a job in Washington and she was open to dating again. After I had moved, I proceeded to smother her, not push her, just be with her all the time. I had no friends there, just her and her sister. The sister (33) had just been dumbed by her boyfriend and was quite insane. Throughout this time, I tried to be with Laura as much as possible to regain her trust, but the sister, who has no friends and is extremely self-centered, kept wanting Laura to go out to clubs all the time. Although I had not contested this becuase it is her sister, it was driving me crazy. Laura had told me that she wanted to fall in love with me again but couldn't seem to do it no matter how hard she wanted to. We had a great friendship and never argued, but there was no ramance.

 

We went on vacation for a week to get away from life for a while and see if that would do the trick. It didn't! I pouted when she wouldn't have sex with me and that turned her off big time. We were both frustrated and unhappy. We later met and she said that we needed to take some time apart. That she needed to miss me becuase I was always with with her; there was no balance. She told me that 75% was there, buit there was no sexual attraction. That I had lost my confidence (I AGREE) and let myself go (gained some wait and shaved my head). She said that she was scared and didn't want to take the chance of loosing me but that we needed to be apart for a while to hopefully make it work again like it was in the beginning. I verified all this becuase she confides in her brother and he called me up after talking with her and told me that she was telling the truth and not trying to just let me off easy or lead me on. The brother is definately trustworthy. She said that we should go on some dates and I should live my life because I can't keep all that pressure on her and always rely on her.

 

In the meantime, I am engaging in a diet and exercise plan, getting something done with my hair, and trying to gain my confidence back. I came this far, I have to see it through. She said she loved me, and wants to see the finished product when I am done with my transformation. Does this all sound like crap to you or am I right by sticking in there and giving it my all. I had alreay bought tickets to a concert in two weeks for her birthday. She and I had already took the day off of work and are still going. I'm not even sure how to act. She has called me two times since to help her with sending an e-mail. I act cool and sound like everything is fine. Please help!

[Lonestar]

I'm no expert but I'll tell you what I know from experience. I have never been able to make things work with a guy that I was not sexually attracted to. I tried to do that once with a very close friend of mine who I thought would make a great mate if I could only get past that. I never could. It's either there or it's not. There are very few Xs in my life that I am still sexually attracted to. Only a couple I can think of right now, but just one that I would consider having sex with (and have been).

 

I think what you need to do is pull away from her on many levels. Do not always be available, do not follow her around, and get your own life. A man without his own life and interests is not attractive to a woman, sexually or emotionally. Do not always answer her calls, or jump on your cell phone when it rings. Let her leave a message and wonder where you are. If you keep smothering her, you're going to lose her. Step back, get back your own life, and you'll see her come toward you. It's the only way. Transforming yourself for anyone but yourself, never works.

[miggsbucks]

Originally posted by nikkicam71

Miggs,

 

you haven't talked to your ex at all in 40 days? How long broken up? Did she try to talk to you at all?

 

~Nikki

 

Well the last time i actually saw her was May 12th, its a long distance thing. She told me when i got home that she wasn't sure about a relationship right now, because she has only been divorced since May 2003 and i bawled for about a month on and off. Sent her flowers, sent her messages for about a month. She had asked me to back off a little which i did. Matters came to a head on June 15th, when she announced during one of our weekly IM chats that "i am not the one for you", "you need to move on"

 

So i immediately called her for the first time in about 2 weeks, and the frustrating part was she said "ive had time to think, and i dont think a relationship is what i need right now i need to stay single for a while longer"

 

its frustrating cos that was the time i gave her, to think. she said that she does still love me, but doesnt know whether enough to bring a child into the world with (she keeps going on about her biological clock ticking, as she has no kids, really wants them, she's 32 - i'm 34, i dont have them either)

 

so the next day i sent her an email saying thanks for the wonderful time we had together, and told her i will always love her no matter what, and said that i would try and get on with my life, and let her get on with hers. think that was an announcement (not mentioned explicitly) that i would practice no contact from that point (i only dicovered this website beginning of july)

 

then i heard nothing until my birthday on June 22 when she sent me an offline IM wishing me a happy birthday. the next day i offlined her saying thanks.

 

then i got an offline IM from her on June 29 asking me to mail something back to her that i had inadvertently packed in my stuff and brought home with me. so i offlined her back saying i would do that.

 

she then offlined me 15 july thanking me for sending her stuff back, and asked how i was doing, and said that she hopes to get the chance to chat with me soon. i left it 3 days before replying back, and when i hit the send button she replied immediately, and we chatted for an hour and a half online. But it was all just everyday stuff, no dating talk, no relationship talk. she signed off by saying "it was great chatting to you" and i said "it was great chatting to you to, hope we can do it again soon"

 

and thats it, nothing since. so since june 16th i have not initiated any contact at all. i'm gonna stay on this path, because i pushed and pushed. and ended up getting the reaction i didnt want on June 15th when she said "you need to move on". But i am clinging to the hope bcos she said she still does love me, and she does still makes sporadic contact with me.

 

i'm just going to keep checking my IM's, but less frequently from now on. i may ignore her next one, in the hope she'll send a second one all panicking or something. in the meantime i have got back into dating (first date since parting with her was on 24 july) to try and take my mind off her. she will ALWAYS be the biggest love of my life i know this. but i am just trying to think less and less of her. its getting easier as time goes by.

 

i have played no-contact "perfect-textbook-way" it has really helped in dealing with the loss of her, but each of the 3 times she has broken contact its sort of got me back to square one. but i am never going to try with her again. my email of 16th June made it all perfectly clear to her, and it wasn't too long for her to read. i keep reading what i wrote and stand by everything i said in it, i just keep thinking - i wish that typo wasn't in it there (lol). if i plead again in the future, it will go against what i said in that i would let her get on with her life.

[dreamguy]

Excellent reply Lonestar, especially the second paragraph.

Kanejd read it a few times. Because I was about to say the same thing.

I'm no "expert" as you referred to me but I can give you a few pointers.

Get your act together. Get your life and your INDEPENDENCE back. Get busy and don't always rely on her or her sister to make plans. Don't always be available. Come up with your own ideas on what to do to have fun. Prove to her and most of all to YOURSELF that you don't need her in your life to go on. Of course you want her but you don't need her. Having her is a bonus, a plus, a blessing... but still, life without her is possible. There's a huge difference between both things.

When she sees this change in you she'll hopefully start getting attracted to the guy she liked in the first place. It takes time so don't lose faith and keep at it. Even if, in the long run, you don't get her back then at least you would have yourself back. Your self-confidence will sky rocket and this in turn will attract other women. Just make sure you don't put on a phony act of being in control just to get her back or she will see right through it. You have to literally change and, when you do, it will work wonders for you. Believe in yourself and in what you can accomplish Kanejd and start right from this second.

[miggsbucks]

i've just done something pretty drastic, i've deleted my yahoo ID that she has got in her list. when you try to view my profile from her pc, it will now say "Sorry, but the profile you are looking for is not currently available" it also means that i will no longer be able to see whether she has IM'd me. it has gone, kapput.

 

i reckon this is the best way forward for me now. she will prob IM me on my old ID, but.. alas.. i will never see it now, and not be able to respond either. she has my home and cell #'s, so if she wants to get in touch, she knows what to do. i also got rid of the personal answerfone messages that both of those #'s have. yes it mite be all a game all this, but i'm fed up of her using non-personal methods of communication (sms, IM, email etc).

 

it mite trigger a positive response from her, who knows. but right now i feel as though i have made a positive step in the healing process, and i just think "the sooner the better", in terms of what i have just done.

[Lonestar]

I read your other post, and it seems she's contacting you pretty consistently - okay every one to two weeks, but it's something. I'm also in my 30s, and it does take awhile to learn to trust anyone enough to settle down again after being divorced. Divorce wipes you out for a good two years, and usually anyone you get involved with soon after that doesn't work out. There's way too much to learn about why the marriage screwed up, and trust is very very hard.

 

I think deleting your Yahoo ID was a good move. I personally would take the sissy way out a lot of times if my X was anywhere near a computer (he's computer illiterate), and let me tell you something, I had one guy I liked disappear from all online contact, and it drove me absolutely insane. He was long distance, not too mention a jerk, but seeing him gone online, really bothered me. I ended up calling him once or twice after that.

 

It's a good strategic move on your part.

 

I'm aggravated over here because I have no chess pieces to move. Neither one of us has a reason to call, and the only day I'm sure to see him is every other Sunday at 6:00 for about two minutes. He's not online and we don't hang in the same social circles.

[fishman3226]

Hiya guys - I sent my email to her - it is not all bad as I made it out - no one can tell me it is not full of fact to be honest. It is not something of "oh, you are a b**ch - I hate you" it is my complete and honest point of view.

 

If she hates me after that well then she does - I dont care. Believe me after the crap she has put me thru she either comes back or is completely history. This woman has blatantly manipulated me and used me for the past six months (and into the relationship) so I am getting some of my own back.

 

As an example - yesterday she rings - not to say hi - just 'do you know where (these books) are?' I said no - I dont know where they are - and then she sproutsabout her wanting them - no 'how are you... kiss my arse... nothing.' I hung up and thought - get bent - you cant just expect my respect and to control me anymore - it has gone on too long.

 

This woman was a catalyst for my ex wife to deny me contact with my kids - she argued with her - and then after 4 months I finally after court battles my ex never went to I got contact with my kids. I lost 4 months of my kids lives to be with her. It cost me 1000s of dollars. I was used up for her 'improvement.' I put it an old thread how in essence she is a leech (and I have used that word) in dealing with me. I am like using dreamguy's analogy like a kid looking up to her - though this mum is an abuser. Yeah, I love her- but I dont like her as a person anymore. I basically said that she is emotionally immature and that i know i made some mistakes but what she did in the six months since we broke up is unacceptable.

 

I suppose it is some release. I have now said what i wanted to tell her in my darkest times and what I truly believe of her. She cannot believe that i am lieing for she has said some of those things to me. Oh well. I would sooner have no contact AT ALL EVER so I can move on or get her back - she is not strong enough nor mature enough to do that so I choose the latter. Yeah I love her - yeah I am hurt. I may always wonder what if but stuff it - it as gone on too far.

[Lonestar]

I'm sorry you had to send that. It sucks because I'm sure it makes you feel that this is the end, and it most likely is. Sometimes saying everything you always wanted to say before moving on can be very empowering, but if you're truly not ready to move on, then you might regret letting loose. Only time will tell how you feel about this.

 

I used to prefer to speak my mind, but these days I've learned to keep my mouth shut as much as possible. I also follow the 24 hour rule before reacting to something or going through with a crazy idea. I've saved myself a lot of dunce caps by following that one. I hope this all brings the closure you're looking for, and you're better off if she came between you and your kids like that. That's plain wrong.

 

** Oh Jee, miggs someone else here has kids and you've been chatting with him for awhile now. LMAO**

[lost_in_chgo]

Hey lonestar,

I want to hear whatever you can tell me about your state of mind, etc after the divorce.

My ex was recently separated then divorced when we dated (after working closely for 3 years).

When the divorce became final she flipped. That was about 11 months ago...

[Lonestar]

Divorce sucks. I don't care whether you're the one filing or not. The system is extremely draining and it takes a long time to push through the other end, especially when you have kids. Attorneys push their clients to get back at the other one. It's a money game for them. Get the client pissed at the X and they'll shell out more cash to take them down. I have also seen corrupt judges ( I work in the field of law). So you have this whole messy process on top of something that rips your whole world as you know it inside out. Many people in the middle of divorce consider reconciling in their heads just to stop all the bullsh*t. The divorce lawyers in my town jokingly refer to that floor of the courthouse as "the boulevard of broken dreams."

 

My state of mine during the separation (which is just the time period from when papers are filed to the actual divorce) was one of fear. I didn't know how I would make it on my own, didn't know what I was going to lose, what would happen to my children, how would I survive paying the bills all alone, etc. It is *very* easy at that point to hook up with someone who is nurturing and protecting. I stayed single for the entire period, and I'm so glad I did because I'm not sure I would have been with someone for the right reasons. My X filed for divorce 2.5 years ago, the divorce was final a little over a year ago, and I didn't feel I was ready to start dating until six months ago. It took that long for me to get my life back in order, but my situation was a little different than the average. I had a newborn baby throughout this whole thing, so my raging hormones did not make any of this feel better.

 

When the divorce became final, I was relieved, because it felt like an enitre nightmare was lifted off me. No more court dates, no more wondering what the hell was gong to happen with my future, my possessions, my children. When the divorce is final you can breathe again. Everything is in writing and you slowly get back on you feet. The fear dissipates very quickly at that point too, so you see everything in a different light. I stopped being so needy on my friends and family at that time. Instead I gave myself a kick in the ass, and did everything I needed to do.

 

I would never in a million years date someone going through a divorce. I have spoken with several people in that position, and they are all screwed up emotionally. Their self-esteem is not the greatest, and they're also very sensitive. A relationship during that time is so difficult because, really, the other person involved is just a catalyst to a new life, someone to lean on for support. I suppose these things can last, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

Is that enough help?

[fishman3226]

Nope, it will never be the end - she will keep on trying to come back and then pull away. Just what she does.

 

I actualy was thinking about the email for ages - say from about May or so - and I sent her draft number 100 I reckon. Oh well. I feel kind of great about it to be honest - like I just liberated myself of some angst.

[nikkicam71]

In the past two weeks, I've had two different ex's from approx 8 years ago and 6 years ago, consecutively, proposition me. No kidding. As in, I haven't seen you in years but how bout we get together and have sex. Are you KIDDING ME???

 

I've been dating this guy who is the ANTITHESIS of my ex. We have nothing in common...he isn't into art, music, politics or religion. His passion is SPORTS. I mean, I love baseball, but my ex and I looked at posters of Dali's paintings for 45 min on an afternoon outing....we argued about politics every chance we got. What the f*ck am I doing????

 

I miss him like fire misses oxygen. If I can't be with him, I need to "be" with him. Even if I can only be his friend. I can't have him gone from my life forever. He is like my other half and I feel incomplete. Empty without him.

 

I work on the rest of it. I love my life. I love who I am as a person. I can be happy alone. Nevertheless, I don't want to spend the rest of my life without him in it. In whatever shape or form he might take. I'm sure you all dont understand, but that is honestly and truly how I feel.

 

I'm kinda a hippie chick...very Zen and spiritual. he is part of my karmic present. If I can't have him in my life the way that I believed he was meant to be, than he was meant to be in a different aspect...but he belongs here, in my life. Do you understand?

 

Please help. I feel as though I can't wait much longer.

 

~N

[miggsbucks]

Nikki,

 

You are falling into the trap of making yourself believe that you need your ex. Nobody needs anyone. We are all capable of living as single people. Relationships that are based on needing to be with someone will usually run into problems. The person doing all the "needing" will become obsessed with the other person, and difficulties will arise in the relationship. If I started dating some new girlfriend, and she started giving me the vibe that she was needy and clingy, I would start to back off. Maybe you came over this way to your ex while you guys were still together?

 

If this is the case, then getting in touch with your ex while you are feeling this way will reinforce this perception he may have developed while you were together. The best thing that you can do is to work this out before getting in touch with him. Find out and discover that you do not need this guy, before doing anything. Believe in it. Nobody needs anyone. Yes you have very strong feelings towards him, and want to be with him, but you don't need him.

[miggsbucks]

Lonestar,

 

At the time of deleting my ID, i thought it was as you said, a good strategic move. But since then, I've replied back to the email yahoo sent me, asking them to reinstate it! I kept thinking "what if she has IM'd me? i won't be able to read it"

 

But i guess there is a possibility that they may not get back to me, in which case - fate is now playing its role in my dilemma. But it was driving me crazy signing in all the time, checking for IM's from her. I'd set up a new one a month ago now anyway, and having the two was a pain. The one my ex was on was exclusively for her, as I'd sent the buddies on my old one the new profile, and explained why i was changing to this one.

 

During the period may12-jun16, when i kept IM'ing her when she was online, and had decided enough was enough and had to set up a new ID, to stop the temptation.

 

I liked what you said about the guy disappearing from online, in that it got to you. Did you dump him? Did you get that feeling "i want what i can't have"?

[Lonestar]

Sometimes I have to wonder just how much of what we believe is love is actually addiction. I recently quit smoking and I know I am definitely a nicotine addict. I crave what I know was bad for me and rationalize it into something good, something incredible - there's nothing else on earth like that smoke. All this so I can justify doing something that's slowly killing me. That's junkie thinking on my part, and I have also seen myself do it with my own X. I know he was bad for me, but most of the time I look back and only see the good, the best. I have to force myself to face the facts, and what do you know... I'm STILL in love with him. My X is like a very bad drug to me, because love shouldn't hurt and if it hurts, you shouldn't want to go back for more. Yet, I do.

 

I don't know if this relates to you, but it's a thought and something to consider. Try to get through each day thinking you can get past the craving to call him, and I'll try to take my own advice too.

[nikkicam71]

hey guys! yesterday was just a really bad day for me....NOT at all sure why. One of those out of the blue really aching because I missed him so much kinda days.

 

I'm not a needy person at all...never came across that way to D. If anything, he always admired me for what a strong, resiliant person I am. He always turned to me for advice, support, etc. But we all have our weak moments...part of being human. My emotional breakdown last night was all day building, and by the end of the night, it was aided by quite a few potent margueritas

 

I do feel that certain people come into our lives for a reason...and that others absolutely belong there for whatever reason. My ex-relationship was not negative, destructive or damaging in any way. That was why it was so hard to let go of. On keeping him in my life (eventually) the only other man I've ever been in love with is now my best friend. He's engaged to someone else and I could care less...I still love him very much, but in a TOTALLY completely different way. But I'm so happy that he's still a part of my life. I know that may not make much sense to some people, but it works for me!

 

Anyway, thank you...ALL of you, for helping me get thru yesterday. I know that I will talk to my ex again at some point in the future. Just not today...and not yesterday either!!!

 

~Nikki

[Kanejd]

[/b]Lonestar and Dreamguy:

 

Thank you for your words of encouragement, they are much appreciated. It is quite theraputic reading this thread, I don't feel so alone.

 

It is a long road ahead, but I must stay resolve, not just in hopes of getting Laura back, but more importantly for myself. I realize now how I had been acting (dependent, needy, accessable, boring). I must regain my confidence. The strange thing is that I am extremely confident around other women. I have no problem talking to beautiful women and keeping their interest. Just last week, I met a beautiful woman at a wedding and she is calling me almost everyday now. I told her I just wanted to hang out once in a while as friends (she lives 4 hours away). I think it's the challenge thing right? My ex is very strong and extremely independent and emotionally unavailable most of the time (stems from her father who is exactly the same). I think her behavior intimidates me and I get extremely unconfortable sometimes because she will not open up. I have never met a woman like her. Maybe that's why I keep coming back for more.

 

Laura's sister called me last night to check up on me. She said that I just need to act like its over and if Laura calls, and you're ready, then go from there. But do not initiate anything because Laura will believe that I haven't changed a bit. Anyway, I'll keep updating this situation when and if anything happens. Keep hope everyone. Thanks!

[crazydawg]

contacted my ex just to meet her and tell her thats its important and all she did was throw it in my face and said that she DEF coudln't meet me. How ****ed up is that. So you guys learn from my mistake don't even bother with them. They are mean to us to get rid of us to justify what they did is right.