It's an affair, and I'm okay with it!

[VioletFemme]

I posted a week or two ago about how I was involved in the "most painful relationship ever." A lot of people gave some well-meant (or not so well meant, I'm not sure) advice. I didn't take any of it, really.

 

To recap: became friends with my neighbor, who is separated (moved out of home) from his wife. Friends became good friends became attraction became physical relationship. After it got physical, it also got deeper emotionally. I think I said LOVE first, but he wasn't far behind. And it is love, and there is love--it's just far outside the realm of traditional and accepted love.

 

I struggled for several weeks because--how could I love this man and NOT want it all, fight for it all, try to make the relationship into the shape of what a relationship should be--according to the rest of the world’s ideas. I should want to be with him forever and him me; he should sever all ties to his past, go through with a divorce, and settle down with me, happily ever after blah blah blah. This week, I realized--those ideas are NOT mine! I don't even want that! I never have, actually. I'm in my mid-thirties, a career woman who loves my work and is "married" to my job! I never wanted kids or dreamed of a white wedding. I always saw my perfect life as--free, independent, myself in a home I've created for me, with friends and lovers of my choosing, there when I want them, yet leaving me my independence and freedom. The shape of my life has NEVER matched the traditional mold.

 

When I looked it in the face, I can admit--I don't want to be with this man forever. I'm not sure we would EVER work out. In any permanent arrangement, that is. I do want him right now; I do enjoy his company right now; I enjoy some of the best sex of my life with him; I love how much fun we have. I enjoy all of this--when I'm not worrying about what the rest of the world thinks!

 

I picked a fight with him several days ago. I was mad that he was canceling some time we had planned to spend together, and I got quite a bit mean. Well, he put up with a little witchiness for a bit, and then snapped at me that I was taking this thing too seriously. Well, that hurt, but I pursued his thoughts--wanting the honesty--and got this from him: he sort of wishes that neither of us had developed feelings, that it had stayed some sort of FWB situation, that we could just be friends and have sex. He said that he can't or won't do anything about the feelings part of it, so he spends most of his time trying to think of us as that: FWB.

 

Well we did resolve the fight, but I was left feeling…oddly relieved. It hurt at first to hear he was having some regret, even if he was just regretting the development of feelings between us. I was a bit shocked that he had no intention of making a relationship out of this, that he was kind of scared by my idea that it was or could be a relationship--but then I realized--I'm okay with this?!! Huh.

 

I posted before because I was feeling tore up, upset, sad, hurt, and ashamed half the time. I'm not feeling most of those things anymore; instead, I feel relief and happiness and excitement. I still feel a bit of shame though, and I wondered this week where that feeling comes from. I personally don't believe I'm doing anything wrong; he doesn't think he is either. So he has no intention of pursuing a final break in his marriage at this time--so what? He's also not going back there any time soon. And in the meantime, spending time together, being friends, being lovers, sharing love and good times--it works for him. It works for me. I'm okay with it. We are both filling some need in each other’s life. The need might end, the affair might end, but why not enjoy what we have while we have it?

 

I remembered something I had said to him when we were flirting with each other and the idea of taking it physical. I said “If it isn’t fun, we’re doing it wrong.” I’m glad to remember that because it’s true. If it isn’t fun, why bother?

 

I know that many people here will disagree. To be honest, I wouldn't have posted this a week ago, but I have been watching a change in how things are moderated around here, and I finally feel safe to say it:

 

I'm in an affair with a (still) married (but separated) man, and it works for me.

 

Anyone else feel the same?

[jwi71]

I still feel a bit of shame though, and I wondered this week where that feeling comes from. I personally don't believe I'm doing anything wrong; he doesn't think he is either.....

 

...I'm okay with it...

 

...I'm in an affair with a (still) married (but separated) man, and it works for me.

 

 

Shame, for me, is a close relative of guilt - and typically associated with doing something wrong.

 

So why do you feel shame if you are ok with it?

And from what does this shame stem?

 

As far as this being an A...Im not so sure this is (well, technically yes...but that's really splitting hairs in my book at this point)...he's separated and there is nothing morally or legally wrong with that. So I guess my other question is why do you identify yourself and this R as an A?

[stillwater]

A week and a half ago you were describing this as the most painful relationship ever because he isn't yours completely. You said "I'm lonely half the time; I'm sad the other half" and that you wish things were different.

 

And now all of a sudden you have this argument where you decided to just be FWB, and it made all that other stuff go away? And this argument started because he had to cancel plans with you, presumably to do something with his wife(?), which presumably only bothered you so much because you're so emotionally invested (if somebody who is truly just a friend has to cancel I don't care enough to start a fight).

 

I'd tread verrrry carefully here. I told myself the same thing toward the end with MW. Oh well, the sex is great, I can just pretend the emotions aren't there and just transition to a FWB thing. Might as well just have fun. Yeah, that lasted until the next time she couldn't do something with me because of plans with her husband.

 

I was just deluding myself into being ok with accepting crumbs, and my advice is to make sure you're not doing the same thing. I can't just turn off emotions on a whim like a switch. If you can, then enjoy your situation! Just keep an eye out for yourself...

[woinlove]

Can't say I felt the same as an OW, as I never experienced the extreme pain and feeling so bad, that you described last week or even the conflict you describe now. I was what one would call a happy OW because I could walk away at any time and knew it and I was too selfish to care about how he was treating his family. Under those conditions, it is easy to just focus on having fun and not feel the negative stuff of wanting more than you are getting or feeling bad about how others are treated and how MM is treating others.

 

On the other hand, it is good that you don't feel the same as I did, because I've learned that real happiness comes from loving more, not just romantic love, but that too, and loving more brings along with it greater empathy and caring for others too - it is all connected.

 

You seem to be in a bit of a mixed state, loving and caring, but that brings you some pain like you expressed last week, and you seem also to be able (or want ) to not love so much so that you don't look at this man as anyone who want in your life forever, just for now and to have fun. If you browse through past threads, you will see quite a few OW who have posted here in the past, saying they loved MM, then they were fine with something more like FWB, then they weren't fine, and sometimes back and forth. Those were women who did care a lot, but were trying to fit all their feelings into the limited R that their A allowed. I hope you are different, because their path was very painful.

 

If you really don't have deep feelings, don't want this man in your future and just want to have fun, aren't concerned about how he connects to his W or if he does, then you should not need to go through the pain you experienced last week. But since you did go through that pain, I wonder if you are being honest with yourself.

[whichwayisup]

You are lying to yourself if you think things are going to be different or if you can handle FWB with him.

 

Don't expect to come first or second in his life. Your head probably knows this but your heart doesn't.

 

Expect more pain. Expect sadness and expect tears, anxiety and anger. That rollercoaster ride, so be ready to deal with crazy emotions.

 

He has told you how things are going to be and you've accepted this, so when it ends or when his wife realizes he's seeing you, OWN your part in this and don't blame him. You know the situation, know what's what.

[whichwayisup]

I still feel a bit of shame though, and I wondered this week where that feeling comes from. I personally don't believe I'm doing anything wrong; he doesn't think he is either.....

 

He is your neighbour. What happens if you see his wife and child go into his house? Where is your heart then. You see him get into her car and take off with them, family time. How are you going to feel?

 

It's fine for you to say as long as things are light and you're happy but you're in deep..Deeper than you realize.

 

If he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong then he must tell his wife about you. I doubt she knows you exist in his life.

 

I'm not judging you okay I just worry that you're lying to yourself, wanting to believe but this will be casual sex, but it isn't. It wasn't before and it won't be now or tomorrow. Not talking about it and pretending all is OK isn't happy nor is it fun.

[Summer Breeze]

He is your neighbour. What happens if you see his wife and child go into his house? Where is your heart then. You see him get into her car and take off with them, family time. How are you going to feel?

 

It's fine for you to say as long as things are light and you're happy but you're in deep..Deeper than you realize.

 

If he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong then he must tell his wife about you. I doubt she knows you exist in his life.

 

I'm not judging you okay I just worry that you're lying to yourself, wanting to believe but this will be casual sex, but it isn't. It wasn't before and it won't be now or tomorrow. Not talking about it and pretending all is OK isn't happy nor is it fun.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. The thing I got was as I've bolded. You're happy and everything seems good now but as WWIU said what happens when you fall, for whatever reason. The depth of your feelings will crushed you if you're not being honest with yourself and prepare for the things that slap you in the face. I know it's probably too late to say it but don't lose yourself in all of this.

[PeineDeCoeur]

Maybe defining what the relationship is, and what it's going to be has helped calm your heart?

 

I do have to say, I went through this as well. I thought I could continue to see my xMM and move on with the "real" part of my life, consider dating others, rebuild etc. BUT I learned that for myself, I cannot have a casual sexual relationship, which was all he could offer me. Maybe it's because I'm going through such a big transition right now that my heart and mind wants to fill those roles in. I did not see a long term future with my xMM either - I thought it would sex/friendship for awhile. This came and bit me in the azz.

[wellwhynot]

I

I remembered something I had said to him when we were flirting with each other and the idea of taking it physical. I said “If it isn’t fun, we’re doing it wrong.” I’m glad to remember that because it’s true. If it isn’t fun, why bother?

 

I know that many people here will disagree. To be honest, I wouldn't have posted this a week ago, but I have been watching a change in how things are moderated around here, and I finally feel safe to say it:

 

I'm in an affair with a (still) married (but separated) man, and it works for me.

 

Anyone else feel the same?

 

I feel the same. I'm very happy in my affair. MY only advice is as you are involved, pay attention to how you are feeling. It may not be the easiest type of relationship in the world, but if it's with the right person, you can certainly be happy if it's working for you!

[Got it]

I posted a week or two ago about how I was involved in the "most painful relationship ever." A lot of people gave some well-meant (or not so well meant, I'm not sure) advice. I didn't take any of it, really.

 

To recap: became friends with my neighbor, who is separated (moved out of home) from his wife. Friends became good friends became attraction became physical relationship. After it got physical, it also got deeper emotionally. I think I said LOVE first, but he wasn't far behind. And it is love, and there is love--it's just far outside the realm of traditional and accepted love.

 

I struggled for several weeks because--how could I love this man and NOT want it all, fight for it all, try to make the relationship into the shape of what a relationship should be--according to the rest of the world’s ideas. I should want to be with him forever and him me; he should sever all ties to his past, go through with a divorce, and settle down with me, happily ever after blah blah blah. This week, I realized--those ideas are NOT mine! I don't even want that! I never have, actually. I'm in my mid-thirties, a career woman who loves my work and is "married" to my job! I never wanted kids or dreamed of a white wedding. I always saw my perfect life as--free, independent, myself in a home I've created for me, with friends and lovers of my choosing, there when I want them, yet leaving me my independence and freedom. The shape of my life has NEVER matched the traditional mold.

 

When I looked it in the face, I can admit--I don't want to be with this man forever. I'm not sure we would EVER work out. In any permanent arrangement, that is. I do want him right now; I do enjoy his company right now; I enjoy some of the best sex of my life with him; I love how much fun we have. I enjoy all of this--when I'm not worrying about what the rest of the world thinks!

 

I picked a fight with him several days ago. I was mad that he was canceling some time we had planned to spend together, and I got quite a bit mean. Well, he put up with a little witchiness for a bit, and then snapped at me that I was taking this thing too seriously. Well, that hurt, but I pursued his thoughts--wanting the honesty--and got this from him: he sort of wishes that neither of us had developed feelings, that it had stayed some sort of FWB situation, that we could just be friends and have sex. He said that he can't or won't do anything about the feelings part of it, so he spends most of his time trying to think of us as that: FWB.

 

Well we did resolve the fight, but I was left feeling…oddly relieved. It hurt at first to hear he was having some regret, even if he was just regretting the development of feelings between us. I was a bit shocked that he had no intention of making a relationship out of this, that he was kind of scared by my idea that it was or could be a relationship--but then I realized--I'm okay with this?!! Huh.

 

I posted before because I was feeling tore up, upset, sad, hurt, and ashamed half the time. I'm not feeling most of those things anymore; instead, I feel relief and happiness and excitement. I still feel a bit of shame though, and I wondered this week where that feeling comes from. I personally don't believe I'm doing anything wrong; he doesn't think he is either. So he has no intention of pursuing a final break in his marriage at this time--so what? He's also not going back there any time soon. And in the meantime, spending time together, being friends, being lovers, sharing love and good times--it works for him. It works for me. I'm okay with it. We are both filling some need in each other’s life. The need might end, the affair might end, but why not enjoy what we have while we have it?

 

I remembered something I had said to him when we were flirting with each other and the idea of taking it physical. I said “If it isn’t fun, we’re doing it wrong.” I’m glad to remember that because it’s true. If it isn’t fun, why bother?

 

I know that many people here will disagree. To be honest, I wouldn't have posted this a week ago, but I have been watching a change in how things are moderated around here, and I finally feel safe to say it:

 

I'm in an affair with a (still) married (but separated) man, and it works for me.

 

Anyone else feel the same?

 

VF - I am glad to hear you have found peace with the relationship! I agree with your statement to him and really think you have to evaluate what you want and how much you want! It doesn't have to be more than it is and that is okay! Enjoy!!!

[jennisfora]

it sounds to me like you are trying to convince yourself that you believe this. it doesn't ring true, and the repetitions that you are okay with this and relieved, sound to me, like you want to be relieved, but aren't. sounds like you are trying to talk yourself into being okay with this arrangement. i hope i'm wrong. *hugs*

[truthbetold]

I think you're kidding yourself too. And the shame thing doesn't manifest from nowhere. Typically we humans are wired to have a conscience and understand trying to not hurt others.

 

This reminds me of an OW that came here and first said that her guy asked her to leave but wasn't going back to W was just "sorting himself"

 

Then she said if he does in fact pick his W that in no way will she go back to an affair bc after all she had a full relationship with him for 3 weeks BUT she's positive he'll be back for her. So she'll just wait it out.

 

BC she didn't receive the "support" she wanted (aka people pointed out the reality of her situation) She's since left and the truth of her situation is being played out elsewhere.

 

Sad for her, he likely has zero intentions on leaving. He went back and there's no kids, his reason, he can't "hurt" his wife but he's so miserable otherwise Sadder for her, she now decided to accept scraps. She actually will drive HOURS anytime he says he can meet in order to have some of him. Oh, but don't you know it's just a matter of time before he leaves bc he can't possibly stay away. Meanwhile all attempts to win him and have him see what he's missing FAILED. So she reduced herself to accepting scraps and convincing herself she's HAPPY:rolleyes:

 

That's called the junkie mind. And once the fix wears off....

 

I'm sorry you didn't feel "supported" before. As I think it's great that people can actually learn from this site. If this site turns into one of those that only "allows" delusional support. Then that will be sad. People should be able to understand the reality of these situations instead of being able to stay in the dark and a fantasy bubble, cause that's all it is.

[Got it]

I think you're kidding yourself too. And the shame thing doesn't manifest from nowhere. Typically we humans are wired to have a conscience and understand trying to not hurt others.

 

This reminds me of an OW that came here and first said that her guy asked her to leave but wasn't going back to W was just "sorting himself"

 

Then she said if he does in fact pick his W that in no way will she go back to an affair bc after all she had a full relationship with him for 3 weeks BUT she's positive he'll be back for her. So she'll just wait it out.

 

BC she didn't receive the "support" she wanted (aka people pointed out the reality of her situation) She's since left and the truth of her situation is being played out elsewhere.

 

Sad for her, he likely has zero intentions on leaving. He went back and there's no kids, his reason, he can't "hurt" his wife but he's so miserable otherwise Sadder for her, she now decided to accept scraps. She actually will drive HOURS anytime he says he can meet in order to have some of him. Oh, but don't you know it's just a matter of time before he leaves bc he can't possibly stay away. Meanwhile all attempts to win him and have him see what he's missing FAILED. So she reduced herself to accepting scraps and convincing herself she's HAPPY:rolleyes:

 

That's called the junkie mind. And once the fix wears off....

 

I'm sorry you didn't feel "supported" before. As I think it's great that people can actually learn from this site. If this site turns into one of those that only "allows" delusional support. Then that will be sad. People should be able to understand the reality of these situations instead of being able to stay in the dark and a fantasy bubble, cause that's all it is.

 

Sometimes what some describe is a fantasy is actually very much the reality. It isn't always doom and gloom, contrary to assumption.

[Artie Lang]

well, at least you know what you want. unlike some of the other posters who want reassurance and validation on their actions, you don't want any. sounds to me you know what you want out of this relationship and are getting it.

 

what i'm getting at, is that you're not "bitching" and "moaning" about it.

 

i don't not condone his behavior - or cheating - for that matter, but it is what it is.

 

 

i might have missed it, but are you married yourself?

[William]

have been watching a change in how things are moderated around here, and I finally feel safe to say it:

 

I'm in an affair with a (still) married (but separated) man, and it works for me.

 

Anyone else feel the same?

 

In no one else feels the same, let your silence speak volumes. If (general) you feel differently about your own affair with a MM or MW, share that. The thread starter is seeking experience from people in similar situations.

 

Members will learn how to post in a civil manner and stick to the topic or the crickets will take over this forum. That is all.

[twinsmom]

I might get an infraction for saying so, but I am loving the new moderators!!

Thanks to them, this forum might again become what it was intended for. Thank you, Moderators!!

[Radagast]

I'm in an affair with a (still) married (but separated) man, and it works for me.

 

Anyone else feel the same?

 

Being in an affair did work for me and my then-affair partner, for a while. And then what we wanted changed, and it no longer worked as well, so we changed things to meet our changing needs.

 

VioletFemme I guess what I'm saying is that things change in any relationship. You have already seen this in your relationship with this man. You wanted something else but have now settled on wanting the affair. I see no problem with that as long as you continue your self-awareness so that as your needs change in the future you can adapt or change your circumstances to meet those. With him or with someone else or alone, depending on how your needs change. It is important in any relationship to make sure that your needs are being met. Relationships should not only be about giving of yourself but also getting what you need. However that might change over time.

[VioletFemme]

I paused before posting again. I had some reading to do, then some thinking to do. I also apparently missed something as the thread was moderated…not sure what I missed as nothing I read here offended me.

 

I’m going to answer questions, respond as best as I can. Bear with me; I tend to write as I think, which means I write in a free-flowing and stream-of-consciousness way. I appreciate all the input here and many things you all said did make me pause. I considered your ideas and questions.

 

LadyGrey: what contradictions do you see? I wrote the first post in this thread much the same way I’m responding: off the cuff, as I thought. Not sure where you see contradictions; I followed my thoughts through to the conclusion I reached. Thoughts often begin one place and end another. This doesn’t necessarily indicate contradiction; evolution, maybe. But I’d love clarification from you on the contradictions you see. As for my part in this causing someone else pain: who? The wife? They are living completely separate lives at this point! I’d say…I would hope it wouldn’t cause her pain. If I were in a long term relationship (marriage or otherwise) and my partner moved out of our shared home into his own place, I’d be pretty silly to not know the score there. He’s either really gone, or taking space to work through stuff. She HAS to know—life goes on. Perhaps she even has her own new other person. Whatever she’s going through, I hope she’s not in pain—but I don’t really know her, or what she is going through. I do believe that she could / would be fighting harder to get him home if it were a priority to her. She doesn’t seem to be doing that. Remember, he’s my neighbor—I know most of his comings and goings, as well as her arrivals and departures. Not ALL of them—I’m not always home—but enough that I believe I see clearly here. To answer your input on me trying to convince myself of a thing: I don’t know that I’m trying to convince myself of anything; I am trying, as I always do, to sort things out and make sense of my world, my life, my experiences. Thank you for your input.

 

Jwi71: Guilt, for me, is unfortunately a natural part of life. My experiences, my upbringing—I was born and raised Catholic. Yikes! The way I was raised has much to do with this. Though I no longer associate with the Church, I have had a long hard battle against the intensity of…conversion. When you are raised with certain ideas, they imprint on you. Even when you grow up, begin to think for yourself, the imprint remains. For crying out loud, some part of me, to this day, wonders if there is a God up there who can see me when I masturbate! (I've concluded I don't care either way; if a God is up there watching me in that moment, oh well. But I can't stop that thought from occuring, I can only apply my rational experience to it. This is much the same as my current affair.) It’s so hard to completely let go of guilt, shame, etc. I don’t like the word affair; I do think that his situation and our seeing each other is different from an extramarital affair—but: he’s still legally married. No matter the details, that’s a fact. What we call it becomes irrelevant.

 

Stillwater: I guess part of me did wonder, and think, “what if?” I love this man, no denying that. Part of me was thinking what if. And debating what it meant to love someone like this; I’ve been in love before, but never in a situation where I couldn’t have that person any time I wanted them. If that sounds odd, consider that I’ve had all kinds of relationships: short, long term, live-in, long distance, etc. In no other situation that I have been in, in no other relationship, have I been separated from another person at times when I maybe wanted them there (excption being long distance, and that certainly did NOT work out...) And no, he didn’t cancel plans with me to spend time with his wife—or even his kids. He was home when he canceled the plans (yes, FOR SURE—neighbors, remember?) He was just tired from working a long day. I was resentful because it was my day off—work is our biggest obstacle, believe it or not. I work long as hell hours, but he works even more than I do! It’s a great deal of what keeps us away from each other much of the time--aside from his committment to seeing his kids several times a week. As for the FWB thing: that’s how this thing was supposed to go. I suggested it, for crying out loud! The first person to say those words was me—I even laughed and said “This will be fun.” I've done FWB before--granted, it was with an ex--we would sleep together when we were between relationships. Never developed or redeveloped feelings in that instance. The love thing threw me. Completely. I didn’t expect to have that strong of a reaction, nor to have those feelings and those words reciprocated. I expected to stay--well, friends and friendly. Calling it love—saying we loved each other—confused all heck out of me. That’s when I got off track. I though well, if it’s love, its got to be—GOT to be—something more. After hearing his side of things, I remembered where we started, what we both planned it to be. I think: why can’t it be FWB with love? And I’m no newbie to that—one of my best friends right now is an ex-boyfriend of mine, turned FWB, turned plain old friend with no sexual component to our relationship. I think people are capable of—evolving. Going where life takes you. He and I can love each other. We can use that love in a FWB situation. And when—if—the attraction wanes, or life takes us in different directions, I do realistically think we could someday be just friends without a sexual component. As I’ve stated-I’ve done it before. I haven’t turned off my feelings: I still love him. But the parameters of this relationship: FWB, with some feeling of love. Strange, I know. Yet, in my head—where I don’t think I’m deluding myself or in denial—it works.

 

Woillove: I answered some of what you were saying above. How the word and feeling of LOVE confused the original intent, and how I know from experience that relationships evolve. As for pain, what it costs him and his family: he was living apart, moved out, long before he and I got involved. Whether I was in the pic or not right now, he’d still be living apart. I don’t know that I’ll never feel pain again, or never be sad again—I might. But the place I’m at right now is calm acceptance: this is what we are to each other, this is what we have, and that’s okay with me today. I won’t predict next week, next month, next year. We’ll see when we get there.

 

Whichwayisup: I appreciate your input. But I do think I can handle FWB. If I get proven wrong, and you are right (more pain, sadness, rollercoaster) that’s a bridge I’ll cross when I get there. I do own my part in this; while I think his being separated makes some difference, I also call it like it is. An affair. Why would I blame him—and for what? This will go the way it goes: some relationships end well, others do not; that’s life. As for seeing him with his wife and family: already have. I’ve met his wife too. (Before people gasp in shock at the audacity of that: he introduced me once, a LONG time ago, when he had first moved in. He and I had spoken causally a few times, were just beginning to even be friends. He introduced me then, by name, as his neighbor. Since then…she hasn’t come or gone often enough for me to ever run into her again. She’s dropped the kids off and picked them up—but she drops them off VERY early in the morning, I’m not even awake; she picks them up at a time I’m still at work.) As for your point about this not being casual sex: good god, I hope not. I don’t have “casual” sex. I know all my partners, and know them well, long before we get in bed. I don’t sleep around. I don’t deny my feeling love for him, so it’s not casual in that respect either. I do hope that I can continue to see it as an arrangement of some convenience and not a long term plan.

 

Summer_Breeze: I don’t feel lost, anymore. I know the score. I tend to hate confusion; as I stated before, the admission of feelings threw me for that reason. But my acceptance is this: there is love, and there is still friendship. We sleep together when it’s convenient; we still hang out sometimes and not have sex. For now, just knowing his expectations helped. When we said the “love” word it made me wonder if we were going to try to make it something more, if he wanted to, etc. Having him be clear has helped me to clarify for myself.

 

PeineDeCoeur: Yes, that’s it. Defining it, taking some of the ambiguity out of it, has helped me immensely. And—I do still keep the rest of my life going. I work, see my friends, and even date still—much the same as before. But here, you’ve said it too: casual sex. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what people mean by causal sex. To me casual sex is one night stands, sleeping with someone and then moving on quickly… Is there a happy medium, I have to wonder, between “causal” sex and sex that declares itself to be a forever thing? Is there “this is good enough for now, and is loving enough” sex?

 

Wellwhynot: Thank you. I will indeed pay attention to how I am feeling. If my feelings evolve into something else: I’ll examine them just as closely, and make any new decisions that need to be made. But for now, why not be happy with the companionship that I have?

 

Got_it: Thank you as well. I have evaluated what I want: what I have with him isn’t enough FOREVER, but it’s enough for now. I continue to date: I may meet the man of my dreams who’s completely available and all bets are off. Until then…. I have love, sex, friendship, etc. It’s a good thing

 

Jennisfora: I disagree; I’m not trying to convince myself, I am convinced. I do still feel calm and at peace with it, in spite of the tough questions you all directed to me. That means something. Thank you for your input.

 

Truthbetold: I have no idea when or if he’ll make a decision about his marriage. When we’ve discussed it, he states he has no idea what he’s going to do. I think that’s pretty honest. He has expressed all sorts of feelings about it: guilt for not being with his kids full time, a sense of all he owes his wife as mother of his kids, all he owes her for the good years they had, etc. He doesn’t know what he wants. I can respect that, and his honesty. He may wake up tomorrow compelled to go back and give it a try. I would recommend to him that he be honest with her—that he briefly saw someone else—but other than that, I think I would let him go and be okay with it. I’ve been ambivalent about relationships before. It took me almost a year once to leave a relationship that fizzled—it just stopped working, and there wasn’t a lot left that was good, but I stayed, and stayed, out of obligation, fondness, reluctance to let go of something that had, at one time, been great. I can see how leaving a marriage would be even more complex. Or—deciding to not leave it. I hope he does find his answer. In the end, I think people deserve to be—happy, content, loved. I would hope he could find that, as I hope I could. And it’s not that I didn’t feel supported before—or that I don’t appreciate differing opinions—it’s that, before—it seemed that saying anything that was at all pro-affair was an invite for way more negativity. Controversial topics invite diverse opinions, I know, but there is a way to voice an opposing opinion without disrespect. I like that the intent to do this has been established, or clarified, by the moderators.

 

GotIt: I do agree; and don’t feel I’m living in a fantasy. The reality is what it is; there is positive, there is negative. I’ve decided to let go of the negative, and enjoy what’s good: companionship, love, sex. Thank you for your input.

 

Artie_Lang: Thank you for your input. And no, I’m not married. Never have been: not that the opportunity hasn’t come up. Even before my current situation, I’ve never really believed in marriage. Oh crap, here it comes: I’m about to say something that might piss people off. A quote I’ve used my whole life is: “I don’t believe in marriage or other fairy tales.” (I know, now some people will say “of course she’s having an affair, she has no respect for the institution of marriage.”) To be clear: I respect other people’s right to choose a life of marriage. I just…could never believe in, when so many people I know have divorced parents, have divorced themselves, etc. I feel overwhelmed by the statistics of failed marriages; the rational part of me analyzes the risk in marriage and it's way, way too big. And yes, it is what it is: and for now, what it is, is working. I'm not looking for anyone to cheerlead my life or give me validation. I did want to open a dialogue for peope to talk about why an affair works for them.

 

Hockeyfan: You ask some interesting questions. I would say: I HAVE loved someone before, and NOT planned to be with them forever. I’m not a believer in marriage, as stated above. I’ve been pretty clear about that with all of the people I have dated. A few relationships have ended because he—my partner at the time—wanted to take it to the next level, marriage, and I did not. And who says I’m not planning a future with him? You just have a more long-term idea of planning. My planning for the future with him is to enjoy the love, sex, companionship, and friendship for as long as it works for both of us. As for him finding another friend with benefits—I wouldn’t be okay with that. Here’s why: I only sleep with one person at a time. It’s hard enough for me to deal with the idea of him sleeping with his wife (he says they don’t have sex, EVER, but even I don’t believe that. I'm sure it's happened at least once or twice in this year--how could it not?) I’ve told him I will continue to date others. (He said, when I told him that, that it hurt him for me to say that; but half of him wishes I would find someone who could give me more than he can.) I’ve told him straight up: if I begin a sexual relationship with another man, I will not be having sex with him anymore. To me, that’s….not a thing I could do. Have one man in my bed one night, and another the next. I ask the same respect of him. I hear you about your family, and I say: to each their own. You like coming home to your family. I like coming home to a quiet apartment, just my cat and dog, settling in for the night, turning on the stereo as loud as I want, kicking off my shoes or clothes, etc… That’s the life I choose.

 

LadyGrey: I appreciate your further input. I don’t think I’m doing the things you state (normalizing, rationalizing, explaining away, ignoring)--but I hold the door open to the possibility that this could all come crashing down and I could realize you are correct. If that time comes, I’m glad to know that here is a place where people have “been through that” and can help me gain some wisdom or understanding, if I need it. Thank you.

 

Radagast: Thank you. I agree, this—my feelings, my understanding, my wants—could change. The affair may no longer work at some point. I hope I have the strength to deal if that moment comes. For now—contentment, peace, if not pure happiness—it’s enough.

[truthbetold]

OP thanks for your response, but I don't think you addressed the crux of what I was saying. It's all good though, I have no dog in this race.

 

I respectfully disagree that a marriage is so hard to leave. Personally I think it's a disgrace to make a mockery of marriage and there are plenty of people who do not. You mention that you "used" to associate to the the Catholic church but no longer do explains it all. I'd urge you to examine that real root of the guilt and not dismiss it so easily, but since that's likely not "on topic" with the opening and was something that you said later, I guess that's not fair to introduce to conversation at this point.

 

I'm sorry but I will no longer give myself a headache in trying to don a stepford wife mask in order to follow these new harder to follow guidelines. I feel really sorry for you and others, it's pretty plain to me.

But I get it, falling on deaf ears you only want the feel good at the moment and are dismissing anything else. All cool, your choice like I said no dog in this race. I was only trying to help you want better for yourself.

[VioletFemme]

OP thanks for your response, but I don't think you addressed the crux of what I was saying. It's all good though, I have no dog in this race.

 

I respectfully disagree that a marriage is so hard to leave. Personally I think it's a disgrace to make a mockery of marriage and there are plenty of people who do not. You mention that you "used" to associate to the the Catholic church but no longer do explains it all. I'd urge you to examine that real root of the guilt and not dismiss it so easily, but since that's likely not "on topic" with the opening and was something that you said later, I guess that's not fair to introduce to conversation at this point.

 

I'm sorry but I will no longer give myself a headache in trying to don a stepford wife mask in order to follow these new harder to follow guidelines. I feel really sorry for you and others, it's pretty plain to me.

But I get it, falling on deaf ears you only want the feel good at the moment and are dismissing anything else. All cool, your choice like I said no dog in this race. I was only trying to help you want better for yourself.

 

I went back to your original post to look again and try to see what you thought I had missed. With your first post and this one, I guess what you're trying to do is get me to...live in or experience the "guilt" or "shame" I should be feeling due to the nature of the realtionship. That it is rooted in conscience and therefore valid; that I'm denying what is. That I'm into just feeling good at what ever expense.

 

I see your point...and my initial reaction is this: what's wrong with taking the good from things when there is good? I have thought and analyzed and sorted what is going on here; I've realized it's truth, and have accepted it, even welcomed it. For now, I'm experienceing the joy and the pleasure of the thing; I've already agreed that there may be pain later. But--I think "that's life." If life becomes a mission of avoiding possible negetive experiences, positive ones get shut out as well.

 

As for the shame / guilt: I'm not going to wallow in that. I'm still not sure I should be feeling shame; he's not living a double life, or going home to his wife every night. He's not telling her all is well. His actions--moving out, staying moved out--speak to his intentions. He's not invested in reconciling--for now--so his seperated status is pretty clear to all, including his wife. Until I'm convinced that I have a legitimate reason to feel shame (not just a hangover from an overly religious upbringing) I tend to find that feeling invalid.

 

I understand quite clearly that he may decide to make a go of his marriage again. He hasn't yet; he still has some figuring out and some sorting to do, and at this time, we're good companions to each other. Getting what we need from the other at the moment.

 

Opinions to the contrary about my situation have NOT fallen on deaf ears; I've heard and examined. I've thought and analyzed. I believe I know what this is quite well, and am not in denial.

 

I still choose to enjoy this for what it is.

 

I wanted to post to hear from others that they have an affair which they are okay with, and even enjoy. Although most of the replies have been different from that--very few people have said anything like "me too"--I still find the opinions to the contrary to be relevant, and helpful.

 

You are keeping me thinking; I'm not just sitting here in a haze of "yay, all is wondeful!" I'm sitting here in reality, and reality is okay with me.

 

For now.

[truthbetold]

I went back to your original post to look again and try to see what you thought I had missed. With your first post and this one, I guess what you're trying to do is get me to...live in or experience the "guilt" or "shame" I should be feeling due to the nature of the realtionship. That it is rooted in conscience and therefore valid; that I'm denying what is. That I'm into just feeling good at what ever expense.

 

I see your point...and my initial reaction is this: what's wrong with taking the good from things when there is good? I have thought and analyzed and sorted what is going on here; I've realized it's truth, and have accepted it, even welcomed it. For now, I'm experienceing the joy and the pleasure of the thing; I've already agreed that there may be pain later. But--I think "that's life." If life becomes a mission of avoiding possible negetive experiences, positive ones get shut out as well.

 

As for the shame / guilt: I'm not going to wallow in that. I'm still not sure I should be feeling shame; he's not living a double life, or going home to his wife every night. He's not telling her all is well. His actions--moving out, staying moved out--speak to his intentions. He's not invested in reconciling--for now--so his seperated status is pretty clear to all, including his wife. Until I'm convinced that I have a legitimate reason to feel shame (not just a hangover from an overly religious upbringing) I tend to find that feeling invalid.

 

I understand quite clearly that he may decide to make a go of his marriage again. He hasn't yet; he still has some figuring out and some sorting to do, and at this time, we're good companions to each other. Getting what we need from the other at the moment.

 

Opinions to the contrary about my situation have NOT fallen on deaf ears; I've heard and examined. I've thought and analyzed. I believe I know what this is quite well, and am not in denial.

 

I still choose to enjoy this for what it is.

 

I wanted to post to hear from others that they have an affair which they are okay with, and even enjoy. Although most of the replies have been different from that--very few people have said anything like "me too"--I still find the opinions to the contrary to be relevant, and helpful.

 

You are keeping me thinking; I'm not just sitting here in a haze of "yay, all is wondeful!" I'm sitting here in reality, and reality is okay with me.

 

For now.

 

Violette thank you for your explanation. And please know, I NEVER think anyone should stay stuck or mired in guilt and/or shame. It's just those things surface FOR A REASON should be examined then moved on from. Generally it's not healthy for one's soul to be doing something that has those feelings to resurface because of the same issue, see?

 

Really I believe that life's best experiences are often stemmed from pain. I've said before you need to walk through fire to experience true growth and happiness. If you've ever heard the term "dying to yourself" I never fully grasped it, until it happened to me. And it was and continues to be the coolest thing! It's freed me to really see that big picture and there's so much peace on this side of things. I guess I just want others to have that, but maybe that's just not possible. But thank you for clarifying, I still don't know how much I'll participate anymore, cause I'm pretty sure I still went off topic, and that wasn't my intention! I hope that you do always stay in reality and wish you a peace filled journey.

[spice4life]

You are perfectly within your rights to choose to accept it for what it is, if that is what you truly want. If I were in your shoes, I would only accept it under my rules. It's not your fault that he is where he is, so if he chooses to be involved with you he can at least respect you by givng you some lee-way. For instance, guys like him have tendancy to try and train you to accept their limitations which is wrong in my eyes. If they want to straddle both worlds, they shouldn't try to impose "their rules" on you. His choice is his choice and you should have a right to live by your rules to stay involved with him. To me, that is the only way to have any peace with it. The only way I could survive peacefully under the circumstances you are in is if he didn't try to pull any "training" bulls**t to get me to accept it. No way. It wouldn't be worth the aggrevation to me and if it can't be fun then why bother? You're not married, so no need to torture yourself right?

 

Good luck to you. I hope you are able to continue feeling at peace with it.

[MissBee]

Hi Violet,

 

I've been where you are before and have also seen many people where you are. It's always a bit suspicious when someone goes from one extreme to the next, i.e. one minute they say they are in the "most painful relationship ever" and not even a month later everything is great now. Every single time I have done this or a friend of mine has, it's always some form of temporary rollercoaster and some form of denial and downplaying the reality in favor of the "good", it's usually the temporary upswing where all is not so bad until the downswing comes, rinse and repeat. I am not saying this to belittle you, I'm just saying that usually when you come to these "epiphanies" of a self-described bad relationship or situation all of a sudden being downplayed as not so bad...it's not usually very genuine, but part and parcel of the rollercoaster people go through in such relationships where you have to spend a good chunk of time justifying, minimizing, explaining your relationship to others and mostly to yourself so that you can continue it.

 

I think this is just the same and not anything unfamiliar. Most people go through this back and forth of seeing the reality and admitting it is bad....then next week they figure it is not so bad....and the cycle continues. A friend of mine has been in a bad relationship for over 5 years and every single month she complains and lists all the bad...then when you advise her based on this reality she agrees. By next week however, she decides her boyfriend is awesome and they will stay together and the good outweighs the bad, then she acts as though everyone is crazy and hateful because we're wondering why she is still with him. In any case, they are still together and the relationship is still not good and she still has to explain, minimize, justify and explain her relationship, not to convince anyone else, but moreso to convince herself because regardless of what we think, she KNOWS the truth. All relationships have problems, but fact is, some are more inherently problematic than others and those in good relationships spend way less time explaining them to everyone and trying to squint to see the good and ignore the bad and have to spend all this time bent out of shape to turn a blind eye to the obvious.

 

As for FWB...even outside of affairs these setups are usually fraught with problems and contradictions and are usually set up to fail from the beginning. I think you can have sex buddies with NSA and it works...i.e. you don't hang out, you are not acting like it is a relationship, you don't have emotional intimacy, you literally just have sex and perhaps hang out once in a while in a lead up to sex. But where you essentially have a relationship and share your feelings, hang out, act like a couple and have sex but try to say this is "casual"...I think that is pretty impossible and one has to contort quite a lot to make this make sense. I do understand how you feel about what you want and I can relate as I've felt the same....I also later realized how emotionally unavailable I was, hence choosing such situations for myself subconsciously. In any case, you have to be honest with yourself and your situation and assess whether or not what you say you want, if you can actually get it from your situation with little damage. I don't think one needs to have an affair in order to have all you've said....and I don't believe that just because you decided now that you can do this without feelings etc means you can. People come here and say this all the time, I've said it, millions of women especially try to play themselves in this manner and in the end....it still boils down to the fact that FWB is usually a losing scenario and was a lame horse from out of the gate.

Edited May 12, 2012 by MissBee

[Radagast]

If you're OK with it, that's great. If you're not, then do something about it. Be true to yourself and what works for you. Other people's experiences are not your own, so take from them what applies and forge your own path, for the rest. Hold your own happiness close to your heart.