Do you believe in Chiropractic Medicine?

[bean1]

Some people turn to alternative medicines because conventional medicine cannot or will not help them. I saw 5, yes FIVE different doctors for my son's improperly healing injury and none of them could help, so I turned to osteopathy because I didn't know where else to turn. It helped, quite a lot. Was it placebo? I don't know. My son was only 17 weeks old and had no concept of it.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to attempt it in place of pancreatic cancer or something like that, but its a fair alternative for those who can't get help through conventional means.

 

I'm not in the US. Here, you wait 3 hours before a walk-in clinic opening to get an appointment for 2 weeks later (an actual family doctor is a 3 year wait list). That is a product of social health care. Health systems here do not offer much help or relief for those who are not severely ill because there are too few doctors and not enough money. I didn't know what else to do.

 

As much as many Americans hate their health care, those with money are actually quite lucky to have access to what they do. Here, you're screwed. Everyone gets free and equal treatment but you might wait years.

[TaraMaiden]

Forgive me if I don't let my emotional attachment to a treatment that I believed helped me blind me to objective facts about chiropractic. You can believe whatever you want. Just do not pass off your beliefs as legitimate science or medicine.

When did i do that?

 

You permit your cynical and subjective bias to convince you you're right.

 

You sound like someone eulogising about a terrific banquet, the excellence of the dishes, the mastery of the chef, the sublime arrangement of the dishes - but all you've actually done is read the menu.

[snug.bunny]

I guess BigQuestion didn't want to answer my question. Hmmmph!

[TheBigQuestion]

I guess BigQuestion didn't want to answer my question. Hmmmph!

 

I didn't address you directly, but I've answered your question numerous times in this thread already. If you think chiropractic will help you, go for it. Again, my initial post here was a preemptive criticism of chiropractic because I know there are a lot of loonies on the internet who peddle all sorts of sophistry under the guise of it being legitimate medicine. My initial post also conceded that for some people, chiropractic can be effective. My only caution was to not put the same kind of faith in a chiropractor as you would an MD or even a DO.

[TheBigQuestion]

When did i do that?

 

You permit your cynical and subjective bias to convince you you're right.

 

You sound like someone eulogising about a terrific banquet, the excellence of the dishes, the mastery of the chef, the sublime arrangement of the dishes - but all you've actually done is read the menu.

 

I never said you did it. I just cautioned you not to do it, because that is a mountain I doubt you want to climb. You just got your panties in a bunch because you've had chiropractic training and I called out chiropractic as being mostly a silly pseudoscience that was founded by a snake oil salesman. A lot of people who may be reading this thread and this board may be considering chiropractic treatment without knowing anything about its history, the philosophies that underlie it, or the treatments it espouses. It is a practice that is worthy of considerable skepticism because of its shady history alone.

[TaraMaiden]

....my initial post here was a preemptive criticism of chiropractic because I know there are a lot of loonies on the internet who peddle all sorts of sophistry under the guise of it being legitimate medicine. ....

 

Chiropractic as a practice of "medicine" is complete and utter sophistry. Pseudoscientific to the greatest imaginable degree, exceeded only by BS like "energy healing" or homeopathic medicine (why a smart guy like Steve Jobs would forego traditional treatments for crap like this is astounding to me). ....

 

...With the added implication that anybody previously considered intelligent, and going for something like this must need their heads examined.

Yeah, we got you, thanks.

[TaraMaiden]

I never said you did it. I just cautioned you not to do it, because that is a mountain I doubt you want to climb. You just got your panties in a bunch because you've had chiropractic training and I called out chiropractic as being mostly a silly pseudoscience that was founded by a snake oil salesman. A lot of people who may be reading this thread and this board may be considering chiropractic treatment without knowing anything about its history, the philosophies that underlie it, or the treatments it espouses. It is a practice that is worthy of considerable skepticism because of its shady history alone.

 

I've had no chiropractic training.

I've had chiropractic treatment.

 

You're banging on about these documented reports, scientific research and written reviews, but that still doesn't alter the fact that you yourself are completely ignorant of any direct application. so you set great store by what you read, but no store at all by those who are able to give testimony to the efficacy of their personal treatment.

 

And here's the thing:

If you were eulogising and praising chiropractic, based solely on what you had read, I would STILL be telling you to not believe what has been written by others, but to go and see for yourself whether it's as good as they say".

[TheBigQuestion]

I've had no chiropractic training.

I've had chiropractic treatment.

 

You're banging on about these documented reports, scientific research and written reviews, but that still doesn't alter the fact that you yourself are completely ignorant of any direct application. so you set great store by what you read, but no store at all by those who are able to give testimony to the efficacy of their personal treatment.

 

And here's the thing:

If you were eulogising and praising chiropractic, based solely on what you had read, I would STILL be telling you to not believe what has been written by others, but to go and see for yourself whether it's as good as they say".

 

My apologies, I intended to say "treatment."

 

How do you know I haven't had any chiropractic treatment? Where are you getting this idea? Why do you feel the need to make that assumption? How many more mistakes in argumentation are you going to make in one day?

[Star Gazer]

I *think* I do. I didn't use to. A running group I train with had a chiro and his physical therapist come out to one of our training sessions to help us. The chiro watched our gait, and then manipulated us. Most people's training/running has dramatically improved since. The chiro's physical therapist worked on me, and my IT and hip/butt pain improved dramatically.

[snug.bunny]

I didn't address you directly, but I've answered your question numerous times in this thread already. If you think chiropractic will help you, go for it. Again, my initial post here was a preemptive criticism of chiropractic because I know there are a lot of loonies on the internet who peddle all sorts of sophistry under the guise of it being legitimate medicine. My initial post also conceded that for some people, chiropractic can be effective. My only caution was to not put the same kind of faith in a chiropractor as you would an MD or even a DO.

 

Oh. Well, I wondered if you had alternative suggestions, in place of Chiropractic medicine as I was genuinely curious. I appreciate the viewpoints on chiropractic medicine nonetheless!

[TaraMaiden]

My apologies, I intended to say "treatment."

 

How do you know I haven't had any chiropractic treatment? Where are you getting this idea? Why do you feel the need to make that assumption? How many more mistakes in argumentation are you going to make in one day?

As many as you....

I have asked you, or queried it on more than one occasion, and you simply haven't responded.

[shorty7]

I think Penn & Teller did a segment on Chiropractics on their Bull***** show a number of years back. While I do agree with their statements of performing chiropractic treatment on children a valid cause to point fingers at, if I were in a car accident and still in pain after regular medical attention, I'd see a chiropractor (and quite possibly promptly scolded by my father why I haven't seen one earlier).

 

For me personally, I went to the chiropractic once after I experienced a severe cramp/pain in my neck where I couldn't turn my head while at work. I still had 5~6 hours of work ahead in my schedule and it was a pretty packed day to where I couldn't afford to go home but the pain was unbearable. I was in/out in an hour at the chiropractic's office and felt remarkably better. Two hours after the incident, I was back at my desk chugging away the rest of the work I had that day.

 

I do have to ask TBQ since he's so medically educated, what is there out there that can heal pain like that in less than an hour that doesn't take you 3 hours at the doctors office? I mean, is a cramped muscle to the point where it's like your nerves are like crumpled pieces of polyester plastic tied in a million knots curable with Ibuprofen? I'm in such pain that I can't turn my neck and my job involves a LOT of having my head to a phone for 75% of the time and typing a lot. And I couldn't lift my shoulders due to the pain or my arms higher than my elbows for that matter of fact. Yes, my office should provide more ergonomically friendly equipment, but now that I've actually gotten hurt and NEED to get rid of this pain FAST so I can get back to work and take care of some urgent business, what do you recommend? Note that this is pain like walking on a million up-right needles only you're doing it in a handstand on your shoulders.

 

Please explain what you say creditable medicine would recommend in this scenario. I have no health insurance and no PTO/sick days, so I'm pretty dependent on not shaving off more hours than I need to. I went to my father's chiropractic who saw me within the hour. What would have been my alternative with creditable western medicine that you reign so superior?

[FitChick]

Love my chiro. I was one of her first patients when she got her license and I've been her patient through her marriage, two kids, one son joining her and her chiropractor husband in their family business and her husband's recent death. I've tried others but they weren't nearly as good and I consider her my primary care physician. As I have become fitter and stronger as I get older, I need to see her less and less, which is a mixed blessing. Most people who find a great chiro never let go of them.

 

I'm surprised some uninformed people today still think chiropractic is quackery when even the American Medical Association reluctantly gave it their stamp of approval several years ago.

[TaraMaiden]

How do you know I haven't had any chiropractic treatment? Where are you getting this idea? Why do you feel the need to make that assumption? How many more mistakes in argumentation are you going to make in one day?

 

As many as you....

I have asked you, or queried it on more than one occasion, and you simply haven't responded.

 

Still waiting, by the way......

[seren]

TBQ, when I was told to try a chiropractor I was extremely cynical, after all, I had tried everything else. Had I been told to boil toads in aspic and eat them standing on one leg under a full moon I would have, I would have done anything to stop my chest wall cramping and the awful neck cramps. I had tried all medicines, including some very toxic meds with godawful side effects. As I said, the Oseopath did nothing for me. I did not expect the chirporactor to, but he did. After the initial examination he said my back was way out and my pelvis was misaligned and was able to say that I always sit with one leg tucked underneath me and that hadn't helped.

 

The first treatment saw an immediate difference, over the next 8 treatments the difference was amazing. No chest wall cramps, a lessening of my limp and the neck pain has gone completely. I always lumped chiropractors as a bit dodgy, but have sung the praises of this one from the rooftops. I cannot use a standard chiropractor, but the McTimmoney works for me. Standard medicine has it's roots in alternative medicine and healing, Eastern medicine has always led the way. I have used meditation to stop stress and anxiety and saw a dramatic lowering in my BP after allowing myself time to declutter my very busy brain.

 

TBH I am now looking for a new McTimmoney practitioner as we have moved too far away for me to travel and see the old one. They work, not too sure about some of the alternative medicines, I don't get crystals, Reiki or the like, but if it works for some people then that is all that matters.

[shorty7]

I didn't address you directly, but I've answered your question numerous times in this thread.

 

No you did not. You've focused your entire energy on trying to convince us tgat chiropractice is "hogwash" as you've described it, with backup claims of an article linking as an explanation as to why you shouldn't see a witch doctor specializing in aligning your vertebrae for the common flu.

 

Snug, Tara, and I gave you specific examples of pain and injuries that may have resulted from vertebrae intrusion and asked for alternatives other than chiro that you can recommend since you seem to be so knowledgeable of the validity of it. Those of us fortunate enough to FIND good chiropractioners have had good experiences and have legitimate council of whether our pain was connected to our bad posture resulting in unnecessary pressure or some injury causing pain seemingly unlinked with the original source of pain.

 

The OP isn't stupid; she specifically said that she has pains resulting from a car accident that physical therapy and a $5000 bed hasn't taken care of yet. So obviously she's looked into practical medicine first and are looking for a means to an end which is raising her quality of life by removing that pain somehow. You simply have been ranting on as if someone has proclaimed they're going to be looking to get their backs realigned every time they got a UTI or something.

 

I think when you point fingers at the select few who believe aligning your back can cure cancer and dismiss a practice that's effective, you inadvertently insult the people who've had successful treatment. You insult their intelligence and their ability to distinguish whether they should just see a gastrometrist for their stomach pains instead of getting their backs straightened out to solve the problem. For that, I believe you were quite rude and owe these ladies an apology if you don't actually have an "alternative suggestion" to chiro for their back pain problems.

 

(I also think you owe Steve Jobs an apology for insulting his intlligence and choice in medicine as 1) he was smart enough to recognize that chiropractice isn't going to cure his cancer and did not go to one and 2) you bringing that up in this thread for which his choice in healing for his CANCER has nothing to do with the topic on hand which was "I f*cked up my back in a car accident and i'm seeing a therapist and sleeping on a tempurpedic; what else is there aside from chiro can I consider?")

 

So far, you have not answered that OP question.

[snug.bunny]

Welp, so much for the tempurpedic.

 

The pain in my shoulder/neck area seems to have resolved itself but reappeared back in the lumbar disk area as of this morning. I woke up with the same pain in my disk area that I did years ago. Grrrrrrrrr.

 

So, will just have to be careful with how I walk because I can feel my disk hitting the nerve and now I'm worried it's going to pop out at any minute. I engaged in some back exercises this morning and took Advil so I'll see if that helps.

 

Question for the women with chronic back injury: Have you noticed differences in intensity and/or certain areas of your back being effected, when Aunt Flow comes to visit?

[TheBigQuestion]

Still waiting, by the way......

 

I went back and read all your posts in this thread. You claim you asked me multiple times if I had ever sought the services of a chiropractor. All you ever did was strongly assume that I had never done so. You never once asked me about it until now. So to answer your question, I've had family members and significant others who have seen chiropractors, and their results have been largely the same. They felt relief from their symptoms but rarely did their treatment improve anything to a degree that the passage of time or any other treatment would have. But again, those are their anecdotal experiences, not a quantifiable scientific study, and I wont rely on such accounts to either confirm or deny the usefulness of chiropractic.

[TheBigQuestion]

No you did not. You've focused your entire energy on trying to convince us tgat chiropractice is "hogwash" as you've described it, with backup claims of an article linking as an explanation as to why you shouldn't see a witch doctor specializing in aligning your vertebrae for the common flu.

 

Snug, Tara, and I gave you specific examples of pain and injuries that may have resulted from vertebrae intrusion and asked for alternatives other than chiro that you can recommend since you seem to be so knowledgeable of the validity of it. Those of us fortunate enough to FIND good chiropractioners have had good experiences and have legitimate council of whether our pain was connected to our bad posture resulting in unnecessary pressure or some injury causing pain seemingly unlinked with the original source of pain.

 

The OP isn't stupid; she specifically said that she has pains resulting from a car accident that physical therapy and a $5000 bed hasn't taken care of yet. So obviously she's looked into practical medicine first and are looking for a means to an end which is raising her quality of life by removing that pain somehow. You simply have been ranting on as if someone has proclaimed they're going to be looking to get their backs realigned every time they got a UTI or something.

 

I think when you point fingers at the select few who believe aligning your back can cure cancer and dismiss a practice that's effective, you inadvertently insult the people who've had successful treatment. You insult their intelligence and their ability to distinguish whether they should just see a gastrometrist for their stomach pains instead of getting their backs straightened out to solve the problem. For that, I believe you were quite rude and owe these ladies an apology if you don't actually have an "alternative suggestion" to chiro for their back pain problems.

 

(I also think you owe Steve Jobs an apology for insulting his intlligence and choice in medicine as 1) he was smart enough to recognize that chiropractice isn't going to cure his cancer and did not go to one and 2) you bringing that up in this thread for which his choice in healing for his CANCER has nothing to do with the topic on hand which was "I f*cked up my back in a car accident and i'm seeing a therapist and sleeping on a tempurpedic; what else is there aside from chiro can I consider?")

 

So far, you have not answered that OP question.

Try minding your own business. I already told snug bunny to give chiropractic a shot if nothing else has worked for her or not. Did you miss that while you were writing a wall of text in order to defend people that never asked to be defended and whom I wasn't attacking in the first place?

 

Strve Jobs had nothing to do with chiropractic. I brought him up to demonstrate my general skepticism about alternative medicine in general. If you honestly think he made an intelligent decision by delaying a simple surgical procedure that would have almost certainly saved his life in favor of a natural cure involving juice fasting, I don't really know what to say.

 

You can try to dismiss the article I posted, but chiropractic is not exclusively a treatment for back issues. People have a right to know the sheer idiocy of its underlying rationale that is at odds with almost every established disease theory we know. I owe no one an apology.

[shorty7]

Try minding your own business. I already told snug bunny to give chiropractic a shot if nothing else has worked for her or not. Did you miss that while you were writing a wall of text in order to defend people that never asked to be defended and whom I wasn't attacking in the first place?

No, she didn't ask to be defended, but you're the only one not contributing to the original discussion topic in general and you've chosen to call BS on people who've had successful treatment and have extensive experience on WHY chiro works if applied correctly as intended. You said "you can give chiro a try, but I'm sticking to my 'chiro = bogus' theory" without giving a single helpful comment on how she can deal with her problem in the meantime.

You can try to dismiss the article I posted, but chiropractic is not exclusively a treatment for back issues.

And so we keep asking, what exactly is a treatment for back issues that doesn't involve attention and care to the vertebrae, which is what chiropractic is in a nutshell?

 

You're entitled to your own opinion and you can submit all the proof about how chiropractics aren't effective form of treatment, but it still doesn't answer the question as to how someone is supposed to deal with pains related to back injuries, the same way you keep dodging the question how the OP is supposed to look for help without chiro. The article mainly discredit the "belief" that all medical problems can be cured by aligning the back vertabrae. Which NONE of us have said we believed in! Everyone who have posted a positive OR negative response about chiro in terms of practice as a means for pain treatment have given some opinion based on experience which may or may not be helpful in the OP's decision to seek alternative medicine. Yours is an opinion based on another person's opinion, not personal experience.

[shorty7]

Welp, so much for the tempurpedic.

 

The pain in my shoulder/neck area seems to have resolved itself but reappeared back in the lumbar disk area as of this morning. I woke up with the same pain in my disk area that I did years ago. Grrrrrrrrr.

I'm so sorry to hear that. Hope you feel better soon!

 

Question for the women with chronic back injury: Have you noticed differences in intensity and/or certain areas of your back being effected, when Aunt Flow comes to visit?

According to my mother who does have that problem: yep, and so does cold weather! She complains that if she doesn't take a nice relaxing bath every night her muscles tense up easily and causes her pain through-out the day. I guess if all else fails, you can at least enjoy some 20 minute soaking time to relax. It's not treatment, but at least it's only the hot water you're paying for some temporary pain relief, not some bogus voodoo Chinese man with needles.

[snug.bunny]

No you did not. You've focused your entire energy on trying to convince us tgat chiropractice is "hogwash" as you've described it, with backup claims of an article linking as an explanation as to why you shouldn't see a witch doctor specializing in aligning your vertebrae for the common flu.

 

Snug, Tara, and I gave you specific examples of pain and injuries that may have resulted from vertebrae intrusion and asked for alternatives other than chiro that you can recommend since you seem to be so knowledgeable of the validity of it. Those of us fortunate enough to FIND good chiropractioners have had good experiences and have legitimate council of whether our pain was connected to our bad posture resulting in unnecessary pressure or some injury causing pain seemingly unlinked with the original source of pain.

 

The OP isn't stupid; she specifically said that she has pains resulting from a car accident that physical therapy and a $5000 bed hasn't taken care of yet. So obviously she's looked into practical medicine first and are looking for a means to an end which is raising her quality of life by removing that pain somehow. You simply have been ranting on as if someone has proclaimed they're going to be looking to get their backs realigned every time they got a UTI or something.

 

I think when you point fingers at the select few who believe aligning your back can cure cancer and dismiss a practice that's effective, you inadvertently insult the people who've had successful treatment. You insult their intelligence and their ability to distinguish whether they should just see a gastrometrist for their stomach pains instead of getting their backs straightened out to solve the problem. For that, I believe you were quite rude and owe these ladies an apology if you don't actually have an "alternative suggestion" to chiro for their back pain problems.

 

(I also think you owe Steve Jobs an apology for insulting his intlligence and choice in medicine as 1) he was smart enough to recognize that chiropractice isn't going to cure his cancer and did not go to one and 2) you bringing that up in this thread for which his choice in healing for his CANCER has nothing to do with the topic on hand which was "I f*cked up my back in a car accident and i'm seeing a therapist and sleeping on a tempurpedic; what else is there aside from chiro can I consider?")

 

So far, you have not answered that OP question.

 

Sorry, I didn't see this (trying to catch up with all the replies). I didn't purchase the actual mattress, but rather a mattress topper. Not sure how much it would make a difference (IE. mattress versus topper). The topper itself, is about 4 inches in foam density.

[snug.bunny]

I'm so sorry to hear that. Hope you feel better soon!

 

 

According to my mother who does have that problem: yep, and so does cold weather! She complains that if she doesn't take a nice relaxing bath every night her muscles tense up easily and causes her pain through-out the day. I guess if all else fails, you can at least enjoy some 20 minute soaking time to relax. It's not treatment, but at least it's only the hot water you're paying for some temporary pain relief, not some bogus voodoo Chinese man with needles.

 

 

Thank you. I'm going to try that as well.

 

I understand some are not in belief of acupuncture (voodoo Chinese man ), I will say the times I've gone, it has helped substantially. Has it cured it permanently? No. As most of us already know, it's an alternative medicine and I prefer (at this juncture) to explore alternative methods before considering any form of surgery. Hopefully it won't come to that point and I can alleviate the injuries through other methods.

[TaraMaiden]

I went back and read all your posts in this thread. You claim you asked me multiple times if I had ever sought the services of a chiropractor. All you ever did was strongly assume that I had never done so.

To which you never commented or responded, so I assumed - as it would appear, correctly - that I was right.

you have never actually tried it for yourself....

 

I've had family members and significant others who have seen chiropractors, and their results have been largely the same. They felt relief from their symptoms but rarely did their treatment improve anything to a degree that the passage of time or any other treatment would have.

 

"Any other treatment would have".... not did have, would have. Meaning they didn't seek other types of treatment...?

 

Unless they tried everything, this is pure hypothesis. How would they be able to compare?

 

But again, those are their anecdotal experiences, not a quantifiable scientific study, and I wont rely on such accounts to either confirm or deny the usefulness of chiropractic.

so what you're saying is, rather than eat the meal, which would be a direct and personally verifiable experience, you'd rather just stick to reading the critic's column of the meal - which really gives you no direct knowledge at all.

gotcha.

[TheBigQuestion]

To which you never commented or responded, so I assumed - as it would appear, correctly - that I was right.

you have never actually tried it for yourself....

 

 

 

"Any other treatment would have".... not did have, would have. Meaning they didn't seek other types of treatment...?

 

Unless they tried everything, this is pure hypothesis. How would they be able to compare?

 

 

so what you're saying is, rather than eat the meal, which would be a direct and personally verifiable experience, you'd rather just stick to reading the critic's column of the meal - which really gives you no direct knowledge at all.

gotcha.

 

Your meal analogy makes no sense in this context. Anecdotal or testimonial evidence rarely if ever has any scientific value. Modern medicine is a scientific discipline. Therefore, it is useless for me to consider the experiences of a handful of people as proof of chiropractic's medical value or lack thereof. Show me some independent research that demonstrates that chiropractors can do even a tiny fraction of what their wacky philosophy claims they can do, and then I'll be convinced.