Consolidated discussion - The Friend Zone

[GirlontheLam]

So I have a guy I have been friends with now for around 15 years (college and post college). To be honest, initially I though he was good looking, but I threw him into the friendzone after talking to him for a couple of minutes. Nothing there. Based on his girlfriend pattern over the past 12ish years, I am decidedly not his type. Basically the polar opposite.

 

About me: I can be very flirty. Not intentional. I have purposely toned it down over the years (after getting endlessly teased about it by guy friends). For me, once I have decided where we stand, I can go into my normal personality. I.E. expect me to pick on you, and I am moderately touchy feely. Moderate for me is along the lines of, I will touch your arm during conversation, lightly punch you in the shoulder when appropriate, and you get a hug as a greeting. Obviously, this can come across as flirting too. That's why I turn it off until there is a firm definition on what sort of relationship we have.

 

So with this particular friend, we've done group outings, one on one outings etc. We don't necessarily discuss feelings or serious stuff. I don't share a ton with him. He shares more with me. We have some mutual friends, and he has a big circle of friends I know nothing about. He knows pretty much all of my friends. We typically go to bars together, go to the movies, go to sporting events, and we all support his acting career.

 

Over the past few weeks, he has been acting a little different. Way more touch feely. Way more compliments.

 

Things that make you go hmmmm. I don't know how I feel about this.

Edited August 26, 2012 by GirlontheLam

[Emissary]

I sometimes wonder if I'm a jerk for having this attitude, but I don't generally accept friendzones. I told a real friend once that if I'm going to be friends with a girl, it's going to be because I wanted to be her friend, and not just because I failed at winning her over.

 

How could I possibly be her friend when I'm going to resent her the entire time for not giving me the chance I deserved? How do so many girls think it's possible to have a friendship in which the foundations were based upon rejection and disappointment?

 

if a girl friendzones a guy, he should just move on. Maybe it's a bit mean, and maybe it will hurt her feelings a bit, but maybe she needs to be taken down a level. She's not the only one who can dictate terms, if you don't get what you want, then she's not getting what she wants either, negotiations have fallen through. Maybe if more guys actually did this, more women would be willing to at least try a test date, knowing that rejecting a guy they like carries real consequences.

[moloko99]

Please excuse my direct approach. But I do believe most women (not all of them of course) can be, well...kind of hypocritical on this particular issue. I do believe that a guy can be an honest of god friend forever with an attractive girl, I really do. But what I have noticed over many years is that this may not apply if they guy is actually good looking. I hope they don't see this, but a lot of my female friends do end up in some kind of romantic entanglement (IE sex) with mutual friends who won't even initially demonstrate an emotional interest in them at first, but have the universal advantage of being very good looking guys, while the rest of us get the usual "friend" treatment. And this applies to any kind of relationship (work, school, etc.). I don't think any girl can look me in the eye and tell me that they don't like to hang out with better looking guys, even if there is no intimate involvement. It's all subconscious and conscious at the same time. It's hard to explain, but Freud once said "anatomy is destiny" and this could not be more accurate.

The friend zone does exist, and boy is it humiliating.

[Illusionist]

My perspective is even more f*cked up...I consider all girls friends until they express they want to be more than a friend.

 

I can feel with you.

[Babolat]

Interesting thread...

 

I am dating a girl who has a lot of guy friends, and it's new to me. She is a beautiful woman with curves in the right places. Men check her out when we are out.

 

1 of them she calls a best friend, 10+ year friendship, and 1 she refers to as a good friend.

 

I have met the best friend, not the good friend. Her interaction with him in front of me is 100% platonic. Him, I can't tell. he is kind of a playboy type, average looks. It seems to just be a friendship to him.

 

In 8+ months the good friend has taken her out for drinks once, dinner once and lunch once; he paid. She has seen the best friend 4 times and he always pays too. Funds are tight for her right now. She states when she was m aking more money she would often pay.

 

So, if the guy pays ladies, is he more than a friend?

[skylark100]

As the title says, can this happen?

 

Ladies have guys ever told you they'd rather just be friends? If so, what was your reaction?

[chex]

As the title says, can this happen?

 

Ladies have guys ever told you they'd rather just be friends? If so, what was your reaction?

 

Yeah, I'd say it does happen. Matter of fact, I've done it. There have been girls who have been .. quite obviously attracted to me, but it simply hasn't been the other way around. I didn't click with their personality, I didn't think they were attractive, I thought they would be too high maintenance.

 

So I made an effort not to flirt with them, and to keep the relationship strictly platonic.

[imtooconfused]

As the title says, can this happen?

 

Ladies have guys ever told you they'd rather just be friends? If so, what was your reaction?

 

I was only looking for a "shoulder to cry on" as my situation does not allow for a relationship. I get along better with women than men. I did meet someone, we became OK friends. There was unfortunately no attraction on my part, but I could tell she was starting to crush on me. As a result I didn't feel comfortable using her for moral support any longer.

[lakerman34]

Here's a theory:

 

Be interested in a girl for her mind, not her looks.

 

Imagine this:

 

5'9" girl, EXTREMELY fit, long, gorgeous brown hair, big, voluptuous lips, big blue eyes, super white teeth, VERY long legs, an incredible rack, an incredible ass, and an incredible personality.

 

EVERY guy wants her. She's a dime in ALL guys' books.

 

You, however, don't have her classified. You need to get to know her and then judge her on her mind. In her head, she's going "what is THIS? A guy who won't bow down to ME? HOW DARE HE? I MUST get him to bow down to me."

 

You're in

 

Easier said than done.

[red shoes]

What's the difference between a girl being friendzoned and a girl getting closer to a guy friend?

 

In the second scenario, think of it as the girl and the guy getting on and along really well as time passes. There seems to be chemistry but not as far as saying that there are sparks.

 

Are the two scenarios the same thing or heading in the same direction?

[Casablanca]

What's the difference between a girl being friendzoned and a girl getting closer to a guy friend?

 

In the second scenario, think of it as the girl and the guy getting on and along really well as time passes. There seems to be chemistry but not as far as saying that there are sparks.

 

Are the two scenarios the same thing or heading in the same direction?

Well, friendzone is usually a term when someone isn't attracted to someone, either physically and/or mentally. Sometimes someone is "off limits" because they work together, one is the other's boss, close family friend, etc.

 

A lot of times the "I only see you as a friend" means the other party told them about their feelings which will probably push the friendship part a little bit for awhile.

 

My best friend is a girl, she is attractive, BUT I am not physically attracted to her, she is mixed black/white and very few African American women turn me on sexually even if I think they are attractive and she doesnt really like white guys, and we have grown very close over the last few years. We are both in each other's "friendzone" but that is because we don't find the other person to be our type in the least. So you can grow closer as a friend which I guess technically means you are in the "friend zone" as you two are friends, but it is a one way street. Being in the friendzone doesn't mean you have to grow closer as friends

[red shoes]

Well, friendzone is usually a term when someone isn't attracted to someone, either physically and/or mentally. Sometimes someone is "off limits" because they work together, one is the other's boss, close family friend, etc.

 

A lot of times the "I only see you as a friend" means the other party told them about their feelings which will probably push the friendship part a little bit for awhile.

 

My best friend is a girl, she is attractive, BUT I am not physically attracted to her, she is mixed black/white and very few African American women turn me on sexually even if I think they are attractive and she doesnt really like white guys, and we have grown very close over the last few years. We are both in each other's "friendzone" but that is because we don't find the other person to be our type in the least. So you can grow closer as a friend which I guess technically means you are in the "friend zone" as you two are friends, but it is a one way street. Being in the friendzone doesn't mean you have to grow closer as friends

 

This makes sense.

 

The part where you said people that work together are off limits, does that mean they're naturally friendzoned? So if people that work together and they grow closer, it usually means just one thing - friends?

[TaraMaiden]

'Getting closer as friends', is a mutual agreement.

 

Being 'Friendzoned' is involuntary and enforced.

[Casablanca]

This makes sense.

 

The part where you said people that work together are off limits, does that mean they're naturally friendzoned? So if people that work together and they grow closer, it usually means just one thing - friends?

Not really, some people will date colleagues, some won't. Some places frown upon in and sometimes you are just growing closer as friends and boom in turns into romance

[red shoes]

'Getting closer as friends', is a mutual agreement.

 

Being 'Friendzoned' is involuntary and enforced.

 

Not really, some people will date colleagues, some won't. Some places frown upon in and sometimes you are just growing closer as friends and boom in turns into romance

 

That means there's potential in "getting closer as friends?" And in a friendzone, there's no chance of any recourse?

[Casablanca]

That means there's potential in "getting closer as friends?" And in a friendzone, there's no chance of any recourse?

I guess you could say that...depends on what you're looking for....I know people who have rejected someone and put them in the friendzone only to date and even in a case or two marry them later.

 

Getting closer as friends shouldn't really mean anything other than just that, I'd say if you are interested in someone, it is better to let them know sooner before you two become really good friends and if they reject you, it will hurt more if you two are closer friends than if you two were just friendly.

[TaraMaiden]

No, it means you become close friends.

 

If one of you has an ulterior motive, then that automatically becomes being friendzoned, whether the other person is aware of the ulterior motives or not.

 

Friends are friends, stay friends, are happy to be friends, and act just like friends.

That's it. Both happy, both free to date someone else, no jealousy, resentment, unrequited feelings.

 

Being in the friend-zone is either being relegated to the level of a friend, by someone who knows you have strong feelings for them, but cannot, and will not reciprocate,

 

OR -

 

You agree to be a good friend, and they are completely unaware that your actual motive is to step it up to 'exclusive relationship' because your H. over H. in love with them...

[Mrlonelyone]

Plenty of workplace relationship work out. Plenty of relationships which lead to long and productive marriages started out as friendships.

 

Marie and Pierre Currie: Pierre had to ask Marie, who he met through work, to marry him three times in the space of one year before he got her to

say yes. If he had obeyed the rules we lay out on LS he would have declared himself friend zoned, and gave up. Without their married collaboration science would have been set back by decades. Not only did they both win a Nobel Prize, one of their daughters did Nobel worthy work with her husband in the area of Chemistry.

 

John and Abbigail Addams: John and Abbigail wrote long full intelligent love letters to each other each one began with the salutation "My Dearest Friend." Famously in their diaries when the first met they didn't even like eachother.

 

John and Abbigail exchanged such letters in an age where their communiques would have taken weeks to get to their destinations in Europe and America. These great friends and lovers exchanged ideas and shaped the destiny of the United States of America. Abbigail's descriptions of the barbarities committed by the British, encouraged congress to declare independence.

 

When Abbigail wrote on her death bed:

Do not grieve, my friend, my dearest friend. I am ready to go. And John, it will not be long.

 

Either she's using the word friend, dearest friend, to express the profound love of 50 years of marriage, or she's inventing the friendzone. I think it was the first thing.

 

 

My point is it's really hard to come up with a hard and fast rule about the friendzone Vs real friendship.

 

What matters is the basis for the friendship. Is it based on common interest, likes, dislikes, in other words would you be friends with this person if sex wasn't a factor? If you would be friends if sex wasn't a factor then you are really truly friends.

 

If the friendship has no basis at all other than one persons sexual interest in the other, then it's the friendzone.

 

When it's a real friendship with a real basis in common interest and matching personalities it can grow in to a mighty oak of a relationship.

 

When it's a false friendship based on nothing but lust and scorn then it is a seed planted on stone. Withered no fruit to bear.

 

TL;DR: Meeting a coworker, and/or starting out as friends can lead to real romance. Just be honest with yourself and objective about the object of your desire. If they were physically 100% unattractive would you like them as a friend?

[phineas]

That means there's potential in "getting closer as friends?" And in a friendzone, there's no chance of any recourse?

 

Maybe.

But if you are hoping for that and it's keeping you from exploring other options it rarely works because you just can't hide it from the other person & it's a turn off.

[TaraMaiden]

Marie and Pierre Currie: Pierre had to ask Marie, who he met through work, to marry him three times in the space of one year before he got her to

say yes. If he had obeyed the rules we lay out on LS he would have declared himself friend zoned, and gave up.

John and Abbigail Addams: John and Abbigail wrote long full intelligent love letters to each other each one began with the salutation "My Dearest Friend." Famously in their diaries when the first met they didn't even like eachother.

 

Yeah.

 

Big problem:

 

That was then; this is now.

 

language and terminology has changed a great deal since those days.

For example, the word 'computer' and 'internet' were unheard of, then, although we are still familiar with the concepts of writing letters and keeping diaries.....

 

Things change, roles change, people change - even from one day to another.

 

While your examples are delightful, sadly, they're largely irrelevant because the situations are utterly incomparable.

[Mrlonelyone]

I disagree. Human nature does not fundamentally change on such a short time scale. Friendship real friendship is and always will be the basis of the strongest relationships.

 

I'm not alone or strange in thinking this. There is a whole line of psycholgical thought which organizes love and friendship around three axes, intimacy, passion and commitment.

 

Emotional intimacy = real friendship

Emotional intimacy + sexual passion = romantic love

Emotional intimacy + sexual passion + commitment = consumate love.

 

http://www.hofstra.edu/pdf/community/slzctr/stdcsl/stdcsl_triangular.pdf

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-love-and-war/201208/my-favorite-unromantic-theories-love

 

This is very much right now and current. If you need a real life example.

 

James Carville and Mary Matalin.

 

Met after the 1992 election where they were top advisors and operatives fro Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush respectively. Could not be more politically opposite. Yet they have made it work for 20 years. Now that's the real deal, and they certainly had to build that respect and friendship with someone they would have to see and speak to on TV again and again if it didn't work out...but boy has it ever.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/video/web-extra-james-carville-mary-matalin-17918674

 

Why James Carville And Mary Matalin Are Leaving CNN? | Mediaite

Edited February 3, 2013 by Mrlonelyone

[TaraMaiden]

You're totally missing the point.

 

The OP is asking what the difference is, between being friends, and being friend-zoned.

 

This short paragraph was a perfectly succinct and accurate answer:

 

Is it based on common interest, likes, dislikes, in other words would you be friends with this person if sex wasn't a factor? If you would be friends if sex wasn't a factor then you are really truly friends.

 

If the friendship has no basis at all other than one persons sexual interest in the other, then it's the friendzone.

[Mrlonelyone]

You're totally missing the point.

 

The OP is asking what the difference is, between being friends, and being friend-zoned.

 

This short paragraph was a perfectly succinct and accurate answer:

 

But it isn't because my other point is that one can be friends + have sexual-romantic interest. They are not mutually exclusive by any means.

[TaraMaiden]

I would assume one naturally comes with the other....doesn't it?

 

If you fall in love with someone, and the love is genuine, that person is automatically going to be your best friend and confidante, aren't they?

 

The two go hand in hand, I would hope....

 

The OP wasn't talking about friendship WITHIN a sexual/intimate relationship.

That's a given.....

[Mrlonelyone]

I would assume one naturally comes with the other....doesn't it?

 

If you fall in love with someone, and the love is genuine, that person is automatically going to be your best friend and confidante, aren't they?

 

The two go hand in hand, I would hope....

 

The OP wasn't talking about friendship WITHIN a sexual/intimate relationship.

That's a given.....

 

No, not necessarily. There are plenty of people who feel totally in love...who aren't really friends in any true sense. One could argue that they confuse horniness for intimacy but who am I to tell them their love is less real?

 

Then thre are others who will not feel romantic attraction for someone they feel true friendship for. Even if they start to feel that way after building an explicitly romantic relationship. As soon as the hot spark of lust is gone, and they start to act like an old married couple they jump ship.