Consolidated discussion - The Friend Zone

[xxoo]

So youd cheat if you werent getting great sex what a saint you are

 

You may need a Venn diagram, but I am in neither the subset of dissatisfied, nor the subset of ready to cheat. Your pool of married lovers seems to fall where those overlap, and do not reflect how the rest of us view our sex lives.

[tbf]

I just speak from my experience and what i see women do which is the opposite of the facade and politically correct stuff said

Isn't it shocking how deceptive cheaters can be deceptive in other aspects of their lives? Whodathunk!

 

Provided free of charge sourced from critical thinking.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I just speak from my experience and what i see women do which is the opposite of the facade and politically correct stuff said

 

Your skewed bias has nothing to do with "political correctness." Maybe it's just reflective of the kind of life you choose to lead. Doesn't have much to do with the rest of us, though. Thank goodness.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Provided free of charge sourced from critical thinking.

 

Critical thinking????? Do you know how it works? Because it's a very rare commodity around these here parts.

[serial muse]

No but ive slept with enough married ones to know their true desires:D

 

does not compute, haven't you said many times that you're not average looking? therefore if they slept with you they can get better than average looking men.

 

or else you aren't all that. who knows.

 

i wonder what purpose you think you're serving by starting this kind of thread, aside from winding people up. if that's it, well played.

[tbf]

Critical thinking????? Do you know how it works? Because it's a very rare commodity around these here parts.

No kidding although I've over-exaggerated by using the term, critical thinking. Perhaps no-brainer might be a better term to have used.

 

To cheat, one must use deception hence if their go-to mechanism is deception to get what they want, the probability of using deception in other aspects of their lives greatly increases.

 

So not rocket science.

[Pompeii]

 

Not hot.

 

Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman are considered major sex symbols. They're aesthetically good-looking but leave me ice cold.

 

Hot!

 

Benedict Cumberbatch is not aesthetically considered good-looking, at least by any generic litmus test. But his personality, intelligence and more emotionally stoic demeanor shine through clearly, that he tops the above two by a light year.

 

So yes, it's true that guys are rejected because they're not attractive enough. Where the distinction lies is the definition of attractive, which will vary per woman.

 

No offense, but when I always hear women who say that attractive men aren't "hot" to them, it always sounds like a rationalization buffer that pretty much says "I wouldn't be able to maintain their attraction in me anyway". I'm not saying that you're one of those people and you may very well be not attracted to them. However, I always hear women say "he's hot, but he's a major ******* anyway" or something along those lines to justify why that guy isn't into them. I just see it as an ego protectant.

 

Carry on.

[USMCHokie]

No offense, but when I always hear women who say that attractive men aren't "hot" to them, it always sounds like a rationalization buffer that pretty much says "I wouldn't be able to maintain their attraction in me anyway". I'm not saying that you're one of those people and you may very well be not attracted to them. However, I always hear women say "he's hot, but he's a major ******* anyway" or something along those lines to justify why that guy isn't into them. I just see it as an ego protectant.

 

Carry on.

 

The idea of rationalization has plenty of merit in general. People tend to criticize that which they themselves do not possess. It's why fat people rationalize that fit people are vain and narcissist. It's why older women call men who are attracted to 18 year olds perverts. It's why people who don't go to Harvard call people who go to Harvard pretentious snobs.

 

If we don't have "it," then we rationalize that having "it" is a bad thing so we don't feel as bad about ourselves for not having "it."

[Emilia]

It's why fat people rationalize that fit people are vain and narcissist. It's why older women call men who are attracted to 18 year olds perverts.

and they are probably correct

[USMCHokie]

and they are probably correct

 

Probably.

[xxoo]

No offense, but when I always hear women who say that attractive men aren't "hot" to them, it always sounds like a rationalization buffer that pretty much says "I wouldn't be able to maintain their attraction in me anyway". I'm not saying that you're one of those people and you may very well be not attracted to them. However, I always hear women say "he's hot, but he's a major ******* anyway" or something along those lines to justify why that guy isn't into them. I just see it as an ego protectant.

 

Carry on.

 

Does this assume the woman doesn't think any hot guys are attractive

 

More commonly, it is a case by case impression. You may see a group of equally attractive men, and women will see one guy she thinks is super hot, others neutral, and still another is somehow unappealing-- all based on factors other than physical appearance.

[charlietheginger]

 

Not hot.

 

Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman are considered major sex symbols. They're aesthetically good-looking but leave me ice cold.

 

Hot!

 

Benedict Cumberbatch is not aesthetically considered good-looking, at least by any generic litmus test. But his personality, intelligence and more emotionally stoic demeanor shine through clearly, that he tops the above two by a light year.

 

So yes, it's true that guys are rejected because they're not attractive enough. Where the distinction lies is the definition of attractive, which will vary per woman.

 

None of them are knocking on your door and never will

So don't worry about wich movie stars you would like to date

[somedude81]

A lot of times if a guy gets "friendzoned" its overanalyzed to death.From the guys appproach or whter or not he wasnt agressive enough etc the bottom line is 99% of the time its because you werent good looking enough to the women.

 

I think guys would save themslvesalot of heartache and overanalyzing if they just realized this instead of beating themselves up as to what they could have done better when chances are it was out of their hands.

Guys want to believe they can change something do something different so the next girl will want them. They want hope. By telling them they they are doing badly with women because they are unattractive and that they always will be. You have taken away that hope.

[Blastoplast]

It's all in your confidence and who you are as a person. I'm bald at 29 years old, but it doesn't stop me from getting with women. However, I'm also extremely confident with who I am and what I do -- this takes you farther than any looks can. If a woman won't give me the time of day because I'm bald, her loss. My friend with a fat ass gut that looks like he swallowed a ****ing basketball gets laid all the time, it's all who you are man.

[Revolver]

And this is why I laugh when people say men are more shallow. Both men and women reject people 99% of the time because of physical attraction. If that's the case how can one gender be more shallow when they're both getting rejected for the same exact reason?

[TheGuard13]

Yes, girls friendzone guys because they're not attracted to them. That does not mean that the guys are not physically attractive. It could simply mean there's no chemisty or truly romantic feelings on her end.

[ascendotum]

I have to disagree with you. I think a good portion of the time, it is the approach and way a person comes off that gets them friendzoned or rejected. I have a friend, who is a good looking fellow, who constantly gets friendzoned, why ? Because he just walks up to groups of women in conversation and interrupts them. He has no couth. I think it is also how you hold yourself. Confidence begets confidence.

 

I would call this more of failed attempt to get to know a woman or failed chat up routine. Generally the friend zone scenario does not result from total stranger. The girl concerned is seen on a number of occasions (friend of a friend) or is a co-worker or fellow student or in guy's social groups. The guy gets to spend a fair bit of time in her company and becomes a friend/acquaintance/orbiter.

 

In simple terms I pretty much agree with the OP. While attraction is more than just looks, the guys in the typical friendzone scenario (that I consider friendzone), exhibit a lot of good partner characteristics, but not so good at generating desire (looks & behavior). They're a good supportive friend. Sometimes the guy screws up by not expressing his true feelings and misses out but more often than not I feel the girl knows his feelings, but just does not have any romantic desire for him but likes the support of the guy. imo much more often than not guys keep themselves in the friendzone (live in hope, she'll see what a nice guy he is) rather than the girl play them for a chump. Thinking of the friendzone scenarios I know of, I really don't think it would have turned out different if the guy had come straight and said, 'I want to be your bf' or 'I want to go on a date with you'. The girls were just not physically into the guy. They were putting out more IOIs for the guy's they hardly knew, but wanted to get with.

Edited May 6, 2013 by ascendotum

[TheBigQuestion]

The idea of rationalization has plenty of merit in general. People tend to criticize that which they themselves do not possess. It's why fat people rationalize that fit people are vain and narcissist. It's why older women call men who are attracted to 18 year olds perverts. It's why people who don't go to Harvard call people who go to Harvard pretentious snobs.

 

If we don't have "it," then we rationalize that having "it" is a bad thing so we don't feel as bad about ourselves for not having "it."

 

Excellent post. The ideas you expressed are accurate and go a long way to explain many of the posting patterns most commonly seen on LS.

 

With that said, this particular topic has been done to death. I'm pretty sure I was 15 the last time I settled for friendship with a woman that I wanted to date or to whom I felt significant attraction. The reasons women will "friend zone" men will always have something to do with lack of physical or other attraction. At some point, it's up to the men in the equation to figure out when to sh** or get off the pot. So a woman strings you along, makes you do her favors knowing that you're attracted to her, only to rebuff your attempts at dating with the all-too-stinging "let's just be friends" speech? Sack up and cut her out of your life unless you're sure you actually can be friends (which, if you are really attracted to her, you probably can't). The friend zone for whatever reason is one of the most extensively theorized topics on the internet pertaining to men's dating, yet to me it seems as simple as knowing when you are not wanted and acting accordingly.

[Titania22]

A lot of times if a guy gets "friendzoned" its overanalyzed to death.From the guys appproach or whter or not he wasnt agressive enough etc the bottom line is 99% of the time its because you werent good looking enough to the women.

 

At first glance I would agree with this statement, although I would also include men with unappealing behavioural traits, for example I don't smoke or take drugs, and so wouldn't consider any men who do those things.

 

That's right - because they are not 'attractive' enough (to the woman).....and being 'attractive' is about a lot more than looks.

 

This topic has been done to death!!!

 

But rarely after getting to know a guy better and uncover those other attractive traits my mind changes regardless of his outward appearance and I fall for him. All my infatuations have been to men that weren't that physically attractive. I have surmised it is because I let my guard down thinking there would be no chance that I could fall for them, and then 'bang' I did.

[iris219]

Disagree with the OP.

 

I have rejected many more attractive men than unattractive ones. Despite being physically attractive, there were things about them that didn't resonate with me, so I passed.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've said these sorts of things to friends: "He's cute, but I'm just not feeling it" or "He's really hot. I don't know why I don't like him."

[LilySun]

He's got to be sexually attractive to her in some way, this is true.

 

Women can find a man attractive and not be sexually attracted. She can also see that he is average in looks and find him incredibly hot. It depends on the whole package.

 

Exactly. A person can be good looking/attractive, but sexual attraction is what distincts "friendship" from more. I have known plenty men that have an attractive appearance, but that doesn't mean I would sleep with them. If I don't feel that part of it, then yes he is considered just a friend.

 

And, sexual attraction is not felt just of because of looks, either. Personality and attitude carry alot of weight (for women anyway) when it comes to feeling sexually attracted. For example, I have 1 ex-bf that actually not that great-looking on the surface, but I felt very sexually attracted for other reasons.

 

I actually think it's MEN who "friendzone" women based on looks. Men are much more visually inclined than women. All they need is to see is a pretty face, nice rear, or whatever to be sexually attracted. Even if her personality stinks, they would still hit that because it's hot. Women are more turned on mentally and men are turned on visually.

[tbf]

No offense, but when I always hear women who say that attractive men aren't "hot" to them, it always sounds like a rationalization buffer that pretty much says "I wouldn't be able to maintain their attraction in me anyway". I'm not saying that you're one of those people and you may very well be not attracted to them. However, I always hear women say "he's hot, but he's a major ******* anyway" or something along those lines to justify why that guy isn't into them. I just see it as an ego protectant.

 

Carry on.

Not at all. The first two men leave me cold where Cumberbatch has it all going. It's impossible to describe what triggers attraction, at least at the visceral level.

 

None of them are knocking on your door and never will

So don't worry about wich movie stars you would like to date

Actually, the relationship prior to meeting my husband was with an actor.

[charlietheginger]

Exactly. A person can be good looking/attractive, but sexual attraction is what distincts "friendship" from more. I have known plenty men that have an attractive appearance, but that doesn't mean I would sleep with them. If I don't feel that part of it, then yes he is considered just a friend.

 

And, sexual attraction is not felt just of because of looks, either. Personality and attitude carry alot of weight (for women anyway) when it comes to feeling sexually attracted. For example, I have 1 ex-bf that actually not that great-looking on the surface, but I felt very sexually attracted for other reasons.

 

I actually think it's MEN who "friendzone" women based on looks. Men are much more visually inclined than women. All they need is to see is a pretty face, nice rear, or whatever to be sexually attracted. Even if her personality stinks, they would still hit that because it's hot. Women are more turned on mentally and men are turned on visually.

 

Just the opppsite. Atleast for me i friendzone bitchy girls

Before i found my girlfriend i met several women that had nice

Faces a tight rumps but there personality sucked so bad i never

Scheduled the third date.

[Badsingularity]

 

I can't tell you how many times I've said these sorts of things to friends: "He's cute, but I'm just not feeling it" or "He's really hot. I don't know why I don't like him."

 

OP. Your theory is incorrect.

[Mme. Chaucer]

No offense, but when I always hear women who say that attractive men aren't "hot" to them, it always sounds like a rationalization buffer that pretty much says "I wouldn't be able to maintain their attraction in me anyway". I'm not saying that you're one of those people and you may very well be not attracted to them. However, I always hear women say "he's hot, but he's a major ******* anyway" or something along those lines to justify why that guy isn't into them. I just see it as an ego protectant.

 

 

Why do you see it like that? What basis to you have for it? I am perfectly capable of knowing what attracts me and what does not when it comes to men, and also of expressing it if I feel like it. No, it has nothing to do with my supposed concerns about not being able to captivate said hot, or not, guy. I'm not alone, either, am I, my ladies?

 

Helpful hint: Listen to what people say and tend towards taking it at face value, even if the person saying it is a woman, rather than attributing all kinds of convoluted meanings out of your own life experiences.