Consolidated discussion - The Friend Zone

[Oxy Moronovich]

Let’s Talk About Why the ‘Friend Zone’ is Bull**** | STUFF YOU WILL HATE

 

Enclosed is a lovely, humorous blog post from one of my favorite blogs about why the friend zone is BS and how grown men who get themselves caught in those situations need to pull their heads out of a certain cavernous orifice. I, for one, think it's spot on.

 

Thoughts?

It's all true. There also needs to be an article for women too. So many women will get into a relationship with an uncontrollable guy, thinking they can change him. Then they get devastated when it doesn't happen. It's similar to friendzone but in this case she gets laid.

[mortensorchid]

That's a funny blog! And yet so true. Hey, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. This whole "friendzone" thing is ridiculous, because when the other party says "let's be friends" they say that because they are really saying "things are not working out, it's not you it's me, and I hope that you will always think of me nicely which is why I think we should be friends rather than lovers." But you never are friends afterward. Just move on and if they want to contact you, let them.

 

I remember years ago I was seeing this very religious man who said that he had actually prayed on these issues and "God wanted us to be friends." My response was not a happy one, to say the least. "Oh stupid me, GOD told you that we are supposed to be friends?" Needless to say, that was a long time ago.

[Tommyboy129]

The problem goes the other way as well. Women get seriously turned off and don't want to be actual friends with if that is all you want. They definitely try to hide behind friendship in hopes you will eventually fall in love with them. When they realize you are not interested romantically, you wont likely hear from them again. The advice I would give a male friend is this: do not ask a woman out if you are not attracted enough in her to want to sleep with her. It can get awkward with expectations that you may not want to fulfill.

[thatone]

When the choices are, "be her friend and never anything more", or "cut all contact and never spend time with a woman", it's hard to make a choice.

 

The guys who get friendzoned by women, usually go long periods of time without knowing a girl who would spend time with him. So it's either her or nothing.

 

Sure choosing to be alone looks like the high road, but it's not that easy.

 

As much as I hate how things ended up with D and I. Spending time with D in her friendzone, was a hell of a lot more fun then not having anybody around at all. Life is different when there is a woman involved, even if you aren't sleeping with her.

 

that's why, as a man, you should not validate yourself by attention from women.

 

no good can come of it. once you see women as just another thing in your life that you can have or not depending on your mood, you'll find that you do fine with them.

[threebyfate]

that's why, as a man, you should not validate yourself by attention from women.

 

no good can come of it. once you see women as just another thing in your life that you can have or not depending on your mood, you'll find that you do fine with them.

Seeing women as things to have or not? Whoah, bad advice.

[thatone]

Seeing women as things to have or not? Whoah, bad advice.

 

not really. men compartmentalize everything. if i'm working on one of my hobbies or what not and my gf is upset about something, she might as well be on pluto. it doesn't even cross my mind.

 

sure, i'll remind myself to keep promises, but when we're not together she has literally zero impact on my day to day life, other than the time we spend on the phone being subtracted from the available time i have that day.

 

this, for the vast majority, is normal male behavior.

 

i'm sure it sounds terrible to most women but it is what it is. that's how a normal man's brain works.

 

for someone like SD who has all the time in the world and rather than occupying it with something worthwhile, spends it obsessing over his lack of a social life on LS, women become an obsession and that obsession will reveal him as weak and needy to any girl he does meet, which is a sure recipe for failure.

[Eddie Edirol]

Sometimes I wonder if it's a good idea to cut ALL ties with such a woman, because they could introduce you to their network of friends, which in turn may be single.

 

Not really. If you have female friends, who arent attracted to you, and they know you have unattractive traits that they wont tell you about or help you with (nice guy), they wont introduce you to their friends. It makes them look bad. So unless they are attracted to you in some way, or they know other women are attracted to you, they aint hookin you up with anyone that you would want.

 

It's all true. There also needs to be an article for women too. So many women will get into a relationship with an uncontrollable guy, thinking they can change him. Then they get devastated when it doesn't happen. It's similar to friendzone but in this case she gets laid.

 

Thats not friendzone, thats just foolish optimism. But theres tons of people who are in relationships hoping to change things about their SO's.

[Lexa]

in a sense, could a female version "friend zoning" be when a woman accepts a casual arrangement - sleeping with a guy without a relationship? Apparently a lot of men devalue (consciously or unconsciously) women who "give it up" too easily and thus don't feel motivated to "upgrade" them to girlfriend status.. ever. and take them for granted. I made a thread about this and it's been on my mind

[verhrzn]

in a sense, could a female version "friend zoning" be when a woman accepts a casual arrangement - sleeping with a guy without a relationship? Apparently a lot of men devalue (consciously or unconsciously) women who "give it up" too easily and thus don't feel motivated to "upgrade" them to girlfriend status.. ever. and take them for granted. I made a thread about this and it's been on my mind

 

I have long been saying that's the case... guys worry about the "Friend Zone," girls worry about the "Sex Zone." I myself have been in both situations, and they both equally suck. (I'd say the "friend zone" sucks a tiny bit less, because after a while, you really don't have a whole lot of evidence to hang your hat on that the person finds you attractive, whereas in the "Sex Zone" they're sleeping with you, so obviously you're attractive to them in some way.)

[fishtaco]

I have long been saying that's the case... guys worry about the "Friend Zone," girls worry about the "Sex Zone." I myself have been in both situations, and they both equally suck. (I'd say the "friend zone" sucks a tiny bit less, because after a while, you really don't have a whole lot of evidence to hang your hat on that the person finds you attractive, whereas in the "Sex Zone" they're sleeping with you, so obviously you're attractive to them in some way.)

 

As a guy, I have been in the position where the woman only wanted to have sex with me, and nothing more. Way back when, when I did not know how to manage my own expectations, and when I didn't know the ways of dating, I was unhappy in that arrangement. Now, I see it as what it is. Plus I multidate, so this is now a non issue for me.

 

Friend zone, sex zone, and probably other "zones", exist for both men AND women. It's only unpleasant when you are in the position where you want more and the other one doesn't. And that is easily fixed with managing your own expectations, and knowing what you want, and not overstepping your limits.

 

When it comes to dating (courting, casual, what have you, but not committed relationships), you have to take everything at face value. A kiss doesn't mean anything. It means you kissed, nothing more, nothing less. Don't read into it. If something is going to happen, it will. If not, it won't. Be prepared and have one foot out the door at all times.

[Lexa]

ugh.. so complicated. I'm only 21.. all of this makes me want to be ten years older so I can be somewhat past all this stress!! though I guess it doesn't necessarily get any easier. lol "the sex zone" I like that phrase

[somedude81]

Oh wow... I didn't realize he like this...

 

Somedude, making friends with your own gender is the foundation for making friends with the opposite gender.

 

Making friends with the opposite gender is the foundation for being able to generate romantic/intimate responses from them.

 

It doesn't mean the same person. You don't make friends with your buddy, turn him into a woman, then have sex with him/her. It means you take the skill set as a starting point, add to it, then use it on someone else.

 

So my suggestion is to start making friends. If you can't be bothered to do that, then I guarantee, you will not be able to get women to be interested in you romantically.

When I bother to put in the effort, I can make female friends.

 

Right now I have zero interest in making female friends. What I try to do is get into a relationship with a girl, but I always stumble along the way and end up only becoming her friend and getting stuck there.

 

I've had about 10 real good female friends in my life and zero girlfriends. So excuse me for doubting that, "making friends with the opposite gender is the foundation for being able to generate romantic/intimate responses from them," because it hasn't helped me at all.

[ThaWholigan]

I couldn't agree more. He's been told this before, but I think you said it much better than I've ever said it or seen anyone say it. Maybe he'll actually listen to it put this way!

 

Looks like we were wrong

 

 

[somedude81]

Frankly, I've had enough fights with female friends, and having things go very wrong because they couldn't return my feelings that it is just not something I want to deal with again. Those have happened in situations where I liked the girl from the start and it's happened when I had no feelings for the girl at all, and she wasn't even remotely my type, but I still fell for her.

[ThaWholigan]

Frankly, I've had enough fights with female friends, and having things go very wrong because they couldn't return my feelings that it is just not something I want to deal with again. Those have happened in situations where I liked the girl from the start and it's happened when I had no feelings for the girl at all, and she wasn't even remotely my type, but I still fell for her.

Well you need to stop falling for girls so easily then. One of the easiest ways to do this is to have a social circle. That way, you will continue to meet new girls and won't have time to fall for them because there will be more than a few in your life.

 

I have a theory that you fall for these girls simply because you don't have a social circle, therefore you aren't exposed to their company often. So when one comes along, you treasure their company more than they do yours, causing you to fall for them. It makes sense. Tell me if I'm wrong.

 

How comes I can be friends with a girl I have feelings for/want to have sex with and it not affect the friendship I have with her at all?

[somedude81]

Well you need to stop falling for girls so easily then. One of the easiest ways to do this is to have a social circle. That way, you will continue to meet new girls and won't have time to fall for them because there will be more than a few in your life.

 

I have a theory that you fall for these girls simply because you don't have a social circle, therefore you aren't exposed to their company often. So when one comes along, you treasure their company more than they do yours, causing you to fall for them. It makes sense. Tell me if I'm wrong.

For some reason, I've never had a social circle that included girls. It was always me and a few other guys.

 

I fall for these girls because I am desperate to have a girlfriend. It's been the thing I wanted most in the world since I was 13. Any girl I see on a somewhat regular basis automatically gets placed in the potential girlfriend role.

 

How comes I can be friends with a girl I have feelings for/want to have sex with and it not affect the friendship I have with her at all?

I doubt your desire for a GF is anywhere close to mine. Also, how close have you gotten to that girl and how long have you known each other?

 

I was pretty close friends with a girl who knew I wanted her for the entire time we knew each other. That lasted almost two years.

Edited May 15, 2012 by somedude81

[ThaWholigan]

For some reason, I've never had a social circle that included girls. It was always me and a few other guys.

 

Well it's a start. My core social circle is all dudes, yet I manage to meet girls all the time as acquaintances.

 

I fall for these girls because I am desperate to have a girlfriend. It's been the thing I wanted most in the world since I was 13. Any girl I see on a somewhat regular basis automatically gets placed in the potential girlfriend role.

 

Not healthy for you. You need to coach yourself out of this mentality, otherwise your desperation will kill your chances. You need to want something else. It might not be what you want to hear, but you need to hear it. You need to find something else to want. The very desperation you harbour for a girlfriend will preventy you from getting a girlfriend. This is EXACTLY why you need friends. The more friends the better I say. They will take your mind off of this desperation. If you persist, they will force you out of it . That's what you need. Meeting more girls will help you. Way more girls than you meet now. That way, you won't latch onto one so easily.

 

 

I doubt your desire for a GF is anywhere close to mine.

 

Why do you think that is?

[Badsingularity]

 

I doubt your desire for a GF is anywhere close to mine.

 

There is no way you could know that.

[ThaWholigan]

I doubt your desire for a GF is anywhere close to mine. Also, how close have you gotten to that girl and how long have you known each other?.

 

I got pretty close, close enough to share intimate details and actually be in bed with her. We weren't super close friends, but close acquaintances in that we were frank with each other about stuff. I've known her for about 7 years now. I liked her for ages. At various points this was reciprocated, but I never pulled the trigger so it never happened. I accepted that my own fears foiled my chance at getting her. Since then, we've hung out, but I've never ever gotten that close to getting with her. She was the only girl I really truly liked both sexually and romantically and all that other stuff.

 

And we're still on pretty good terms. Because my feelings never got in the way. I stepped back, and got on with my social life, and talking to other girls and being interested in other girls.

[somedude81]

Well it's a start. My core social circle is all dudes, yet I manage to meet girls all the time as acquaintances.

Yeah I make female acquaintances too, but they're not people I hang out with one-on-one.

 

 

Not healthy for you. You need to coach yourself out of this mentality, otherwise your desperation will kill your chances.

Much easier said then done.

 

You need to want something else. It might not be what you want to hear, but you need to hear it. You need to find something else to want.

People just can't chose something to want.

The very desperation you harbour for a girlfriend will preventy you from getting a girlfriend.

 

This is EXACTLY why you need friends. The more friends the better I say. They will take your mind off of this desperation. If you persist, they will force you out of it .

Yeah when I had friends, they often got on my case for being down so often and wanting a girlfriend so badly.

That's what you need. Meeting more girls will help you. Way more girls than you meet now. That way, you won't latch onto one so easily.

Sure meeting more girls isn't going to hurt. But I still latch on to my favorite one and try to spend more time with her.

 

Why do you think that is?

Why do I think I want a GF more than you, or why do I want a GF more than you?

 

The first one is because of how often each of us brings it up. Anybody on these forums would say that I'm desperate for a GF and that you seem to be fine on your own.

 

If it's the second question, I can't answer that.

[somedude81]

I got pretty close, close enough to share intimate details and actually be in bed with her. We weren't super close friends, but close acquaintances in that we were frank with each other about stuff. I've known her for about 7 years now. I liked her for ages. At various points this was reciprocated, but I never pulled the trigger so it never happened. I accepted that my own fears foiled my chance at getting her. Since then, we've hung out, but I've never ever gotten that close to getting with her. She was the only girl I really truly liked both sexually and romantically and all that other stuff.

 

And we're still on pretty good terms. Because my feelings never got in the way. I stepped back, and got on with my social life, and talking to other girls and being interested in other girls.

That is a real long time. My guess is that she was able to put up with your interest and it didn't bug her. She also seemed to like you on a few occasions so that made it easier for you.

 

"My girl" just seemed to finally lose patience and abruptly ended the friendship.

[ThaWholigan]

Yeah I make female acquaintances too, but they're not people I hang out with one-on-one.

 

Hang out with them more, go out to places. Go in groups, whatever. Do something else besides what you normally do. Bring some dudes. Whatever, mix it up.

 

Much easier said then done.

 

thats what they all say. I used to say that too. Then I actually started talking to people. And having fun while doing it. Even making it fun for myself as well as others.

 

People just can't chose something to want.

 

Well why do you want a girlfriend so much? What is it that is so important that it's more important than having a social circle, a healthy sense of self, goals and motivations that are purely for your own enjoyment and achievement? You can't live life just to have a girlfriend. That girl will get bored of you. If she sees that you have a life where you actually have wants and needs that don't always have to do with her 100%, that you have friends you see, a job or career or business you love, hobbies you do that vary, and you are generally a multidynamic character, then she will never leave. But if you are just meandering through life, angry and depressed, doing stuff you don't like, bemoaning your height, and even your heritage, and desperately hoping some girl is going to come along and change all that for you, you'll be waiting a LONG time .

Yeah when I had friends, they often got on my case for being down so often and wanting a girlfriend so badly.

 

As they should. If I was your friend in real life, and all you did was what you do on LS all day (seeing as you're so adamant you don't project this in real life, I'll take your word for it), I'd get on your case before long too! And I'm just as **** with girls as you, and it would still get jarring after a while.

 

All jokes aside, your friends would and should encourage you to actually start being proactive socially, and start getting to meet new girls every so often.

 

Sure meeting more girls isn't going to hurt. But I still latch on to my favorite one and try to spend more time with her.

 

And that's fine, as long as you don't fall head over heels for her like a prize mug. Because there will be other girls to talk to, no matter how magnificent this one appears to be.

 

 

The first one is because of how often each of us brings it up. Anybody on these forums would say that I'm desperate for a GF and that you seem to be fine on your own.

 

I'll let you in on a secret. Ever since I knew the difference between girls and boys, I wanted a girlfriend. Ever since I was in Primary school, I can remember being a 7 year old and daydreaming about kissing the hot girls in year 6 (or 6th grade to you guys). That graduated to full blown sex dreams as a 10 year old, both day and night. I would get crushes on certain girls very easily for long periods of time. But I never pined, I learned from an early age that life was about more than that and I started to pursue other interests. I had obsessions that were outside of getting a girlfriend to tide me over.

 

If it's the second question, I can't answer that.

 

I answered it for you. I have obsessions outside of having a girlfriend. You don't have anything you want besides a girlfriend.

[ThaWholigan]

That is a real long time. My guess is that she was able to put up with your interest and it didn't bug her. She also seemed to like you on a few occasions so that made it easier for you.

 

"My girl" just seemed to finally lose patience and abruptly ended the friendship.

 

My interest didn't bug her because I didn't make a big deal out of it, both externally and internally. I accepted that I felt a certain way about her, and I didn't agonize over it. She is used to guys liking her anyway because she's really hot. Plus, we actually did have a friendship, we were music buddies that were meant to work together, we had projects and stuff. It never panned out that way, but hopefully soon we will work together, she wasn't just painstakingly beautiful, she's talented, intelligent and a real grafter. Headstrong rebel . I'm honored to be her friend, she's always been cool.

 

You need to find activities that you do, this is how it was easy to have a friend like her. I do stuff, I have hobbies that include people. Interests that include people. I interact with the world, and it interacts back. I live for a lot of things, not for any 1 girl. That's why I could be friends with her. and it not bother her. She knew I had more about me than just wanting her.

[fishtaco]

When I bother to put in the effort, I can make female friends.

 

Right now I have zero interest in making female friends. What I try to do is get into a relationship with a girl, but I always stumble along the way and end up only becoming her friend and getting stuck there.

 

I've had about 10 real good female friends in my life and zero girlfriends. So excuse me for doubting that, "making friends with the opposite gender is the foundation for being able to generate romantic/intimate responses from them," because it hasn't helped me at all.

 

Wow 10. You know the other day, I tried to play guitar 10 times. I couldn't get it, therefore I doubt that practicing makes me better at playing guitar.

 

I have 10 times more friends than you do. Counting past friends that I no longer keep in touch with... even more.

[ThaWholigan]

Wow 10. You know the other day, I tried to play guitar 10 times. I couldn't get it, therefore I doubt that practicing makes me better at playing guitar.

 

I have 10 times more friends than you do. Counting past friends that I no longer keep in touch with... even more.

. It's taking me ages to get really good at guitar and bass. But I'm getting results, I learn new things every day.