Consolidated discussion - The Friend Zone

[cerridwen]

And if you threw a party, and invited everyone you knew. You would see the greatest gift would be from me and the card attached would say "Thank You For Being A Friend".

 

Thank God for MrCastle.

I thought you'd leave me hanging.

[Radu]

Guys who fail to escalate get friend zoned. As someone else stated though, they do it to themselves.

 

I make my intentions known, if the girl shuts me down, I don't settle for a consolation prize where she gets all the benefits (attention, ego stroking, emotional tampon, etc) and I get nothing. That's not a friendship.

 

If I'm not dating you, we're not talking. Simple as.

 

But if you do that, you miss out on the 'good girls' that will drop you for suggesting anything sexual like before the 6th date, like some poster here suggested.

 

What, oh, what is a guy to do ?

[MrCastle]

Thank God for MrCastle.

I thought you'd leave me hanging.

 

Haha of course not! I'm the one who lit that candle!

[MrCastle]

But if you do that, you miss out on the 'good girls' that will drop you for suggesting anything sexual

 

Good girls want to get ****ed too.

[USMCHokie]

Good girls want to get ****ed too.

 

Cross quote from Wholigan's thread earlier tonight:

 

BUT...there are other women--in far greater numbers--who simply find it

EASY TO REJECT men who appear to want them only for sex. To those

women, YOU are part of the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION.

 

So guys who are sex-focused do not see that women who reject them

often do have low self esteem.

 

Either that, or...um...they have HIGH self-esteem. Enough to know that

they aren't going to settle for a guy who only wants sex.

 

Is the proposition of sex enough for the good girl...?

[MrCastle]

Cross quote from Wholigan's thread earlier tonight:

 

 

 

Is the proposition of sex enough for the good girl...?

 

It's very human and very natural to want to have sex. It's primal. It's built into our dna. I don't just walk up to a girl and say "hey can I put my penis inside of you and slap your ass?"...it's all in the delivery. jokes, innuendo, etc

[USMCHokie]

It's very human and very natural to want to have sex. It's primal. It's built into our dna. I don't just walk up to a girl and say "hey can I put my penis inside of you and slap your ass?"...it's all in the delivery. jokes, innuendo, etc

 

Well of course. So are you of the theory that sex underlies everything, and "rest of it" is just fluff...? That is, a guy can't be anything other than sex-focused"...?

 

EDIT: I'm really just trying to understand the article Wholigan posted...so my questions are based off of that...

Edited August 15, 2012 by USMCHokie

[MrCastle]

Well of course. So are you of the theory that sex underlies everything, and "rest of it" is just fluff...? That is, a guy can't be anything other than sex-focused"...?

 

Not sex focused per se, but that is the main thing, right? It's the ultimate display of love and affection, it's pleasurable, it keeps our population growing and our species in existence. Some people find it so sacred they wait until marriage to have it.

[USMCHokie]

A FZ is when there's no sexual interest but they're a great person who I'd continue to want to know.

 

Not sex focused per se, but that is the main thing, right? It's the ultimate display of love and affection, it's pleasurable, it keeps our population growing and our species in existence. Some people find it so sacred they wait until marriage to have it.

 

So this seems to caveat the article, again quoted in part below:

 

BUT...there are other women--in far greater numbers--who simply find it

EASY TO REJECT men who appear to want them only for sex. To those

women, YOU are part of the PROBLEM, not the SOLUTION.

 

So guys who are sex-focused do not see that women who reject them

often do have low self esteem.

 

Either that, or...um...they have HIGH self-esteem. Enough to know that

they aren't going to settle for a guy who only wants sex.

 

Men can't be exclusively after sex, but it appears that it should be on the top of the list...

[MrCastle]

So this seems to caveat the article, again quoted in part below:

 

 

 

Men can't be exclusively after sex, but it appears that it should be on the top of the list...

 

Right. There's a delicate balance between being a complete pussy beggar, to the point where the mighty vagina rules your life, and being a neutered friend.

 

You have to express that yes, you do want to have sex with this woman, but you can take it or leave it. Pussy doesn't rule your life.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Right. There's a delicate balance between being a complete pussy beggar, to the point where the mighty vagina rules your life, and being a neutered friend.

 

You have to express that yes, you do want to have sex with this woman, but you can take it or leave it. Pussy doesn't rule your life.

 

Pretty much. I can get easily turned off if a guy doesn't seem to want sex from me at all, or if he invites me to his place on second date. He has to express sexual interest but it has to go along with him being just as interested in me as a person.

[USMCHokie]

Right. There's a delicate balance between being a complete pussy beggar, to the point where the mighty vagina rules your life, and being a neutered friend.

 

You have to express that yes, you do want to have sex with this woman, but you can take it or leave it. Pussy doesn't rule your life.

 

For my next question, I'll first have to quote my dear Cerri:

 

He doesn't give off a sexual vibe/makes me wonder about having sex with him.

 

If he's sexy because he's great at innuendo, flirts well, knows how to use his body language to send a message of sexual interest, its unlikely I'll be friend zoning him.

 

So how does the guy's sexual interest factor into this dynamic versus the girl's sexual interest? Like you said before, girls want to have sex too, so you can't assume they are exclusively reactionary to the guy's interest. It'd be silly to assume that a girl cannot herself be sexually interested in a man if he doesn't give off the "sexual vibe," right...?

[MrCastle]

Pretty much. I can get easily turned off if a guy doesn't seem to want sex from me at all, or if he invites me to his place on second date. He has to express sexual interest but it has to go along with him being just as interested in me as a person.

 

Agreed. Now with that said; your place or mine?

[Eternal Sunshine]

Agreed. Now with that said; your place or mine?

 

You have no interest in me as a person

[MrCastle]

You have no interest in me as a person

 

I do! I want to get to know you inside and out...but inside first.

[Necris]

He doesn't give off a sexual vibe/makes me wonder about having sex with him.

 

If he's sexy because he's great at innuendo, flirts well, knows how to use his body language to send a message of sexual interest, its unlikely I'll be friend zoning him.

 

I suppose you are right I have never had a relationship with a woman at best I have been friendzoned perhaps I do not give off a sexual vibe. I have no idea on how to do this unfortunately flirting and such is just so strange and alien.

[somedude81]

I understand the intent of your question, so I only mention this as a quick aside, but guys do not get friend-zoned. Guys friend-zone themselves. If you are unhappy with the type of relationship that a girl is willing to offer you, then you shouldn't settle for that relationship.

 

The choice is yours and yours alone.

 

 

I definitely disagree with Hokie.

 

It takes two to friendzone. But a guy does have to let it happen.

 

There are a few ways to get into a friendzone. I've been friends with somebody then fell for her and officially got friendzoned. I've also chosen to be friends with a girl I like, who was fine with being around me, knowing I liked her. Which leads into what cerri said.

 

To you, there's probably no difference but in my book, I reject someone I don't care to ever know/see again.

A FZ is when there's no sexual interest but they're a great person who I'd continue to want to know.

It's not just a rejection.

 

"I don't want to screw, but I still like you."

 

It's up to the guy what to do next.

 

Based on my experiences, flat out rejecting a guy is more humane. It's easy for a guy to have false hope and trick himself.

[ThaWholigan]

Guys get friendzoned because they don't know how to be attractive to the women they like. Escalating, flirting, playing the seduction game (or the dance, as one other poster so eloquently put it ).

 

Guys also allow themselves to be friendzoned in a way because they basically get blinded by infatuation instead of accepting friendship and looking for other options, or rejecting friendship and looking for other options. Guys who are more concerned about finding someone they like who actually likes them back will actually commit more to being attractive than getting mad about the friendzone.

[Forever Learning]

Apparently, girls can get friend zoned by guys as well, even after being intimate. I am still trying to figure out if my neighbor has done this to me or not, he sends me mixed signals, it's quite intriguing to be honest. And confusing!

[MrCastle]

Apparently, girls can get friend zoned by guys as well, even after being intimate. I am still trying to figure out if my neighbor has done this to me or not, he sends me mixed signals, it's quite intriguing to be honest. And confusing!

 

I'm sure he'd still be willing to sleep with you.

 

That's the whole thing right? When it comes to relationships, women are looking for emotional support and commitment, men are looking for a steady flow of sex. When girls friend zone a guy, they're saying "I won't give you the sex you're looking for, but you can be my emotional sponge, and treat me as if I'm your girlfriend." And when a guy friend zones, he's saying "Well I won't commit to you or get exclusive with you, but if you want to sleep with me, we can do that."

 

In both cases, the person being friended is getting used. That's why the best thing to do if you get friend zoned is eject.

[ThaWholigan]

Apparently, girls can get friend zoned by guys as well, even after being intimate. I am still trying to figure out if my neighbor has done this to me or not, he sends me mixed signals, it's quite intriguing to be honest. And confusing!

That's what Scot McKay calls the Just Be Sex Zone rather than Just Be Friends Zone.

[Kamille]

I know that most of it has to do with physical appearance as in if you aren't attractive you will get friend zoned, but are there personality characteristics too?

 

What are somethings that a guy does or doesn't do that makes you think of him as a friend as opposed to a boyfriend?

 

In my case the perspective is flipped: I consider all guys friends until one strikes my fancy. So it isn't like I'll start out being attracted to someone to then think: oh no, he has opposing political views, I'll just friendzone him. Guys start in the friendzone and a few get drafted up to the attraction zone.

 

So the question isn't what can to do to avoid the friendzone, more what can guys do to create attraction. And, well, Cerri answered that quite well - flirt, be playful, make me feel special without being over-bearing and, more importantly, show me who you are. In your case ptp, you have a wicked sense of humor, so really it should be easy to create attraction with some women.

 

And yeah, not all men are attracted to me. Don't expect all women to be attracted to you. If one girl seems somewhat unresponsive, don't sweat it and move on.

[ptp]

In my case the perspective is flipped: I consider all guys friends until one strikes my fancy. So it isn't like I'll start out being attracted to someone to then think: oh no, he has opposing political views, I'll just friendzone him. Guys start in the friendzone and a few get drafted up to the attraction zone.

 

I always was under the impression once a woman sees a guy as a friend, they can't see him as anything more?

 

So the question isn't what can to do to avoid the friendzone, more what can guys do to create attraction. And, well, Cerri answered that quite well - flirt, be playful, make me feel special without being over-bearing and, more importantly, show me who you are. In your case ptp, you have a wicked sense of humor, so really it should be easy to create attraction with some women.

 

Thanks Kam:). I have always wondered if part of my problem has been that guys relate to my sense of humor while women don't find me particularly funny.

 

 

And yeah, not all men are attracted to me. Don't expect all women to be attracted to you. If one girl seems somewhat unresponsive, don't sweat it and move on.

 

Yea I always need to be reminded of that.

[USMCHokie]

In my case the perspective is flipped: I consider all guys friends until one strikes my fancy.

 

My perspective is even more f*cked up...I consider all girls friends until they express they want to be more than a friend.

[joystickd]

I know for me the only women I will be friends with are lesbians because they like women too and it won't be the craziness of heterosexual women. Lesbian women usually fix their male friends up with women. Have you seen a heterosexual woman do that? That's is usually because it take the attention away from them. It's not such a one sided friendship or a surrogate boyfriend like a heterosexual woman as a platonic friend.

 

Steve Harvey the man some of you women see as a guru says this: "Just about all of my friends are men. I don’t really have any female friends. For the most part, I am incapable of maintaining a platonic friendship with a woman. My wife is my closest female friend, and beyond that, I don't have any. Many women will say, 'I have a number of men who are my good friends.' That’s not true. Those men are your friend only because you have made it absolutely clear that nothing else is happening beyond the platonic friendship that you created, not him.

Men will remain your friends in the hope that someday, there will be a 'crack in the door' or a 'chink in the armor.' Once you open the door of opportunity, that guy who you thought was just your 'buddy' will put forth his best effort to slide into that 'crack in the door' you opened. 99.9% of men feel the same way I do about platonic friendships.

If you don't believe me, ask your 'male friends' if they would be okay dating you or having sex with you. Then, watch the fireworks happen."

 

 

What do you think the reaction would be for you women if you asked your male friends if they wanted to date or have sex? It would show you how genuine of a friend they really are.