How much and how do you know about your affair partner?

[Radagast]

I read in another thread the claim that

 

All the WS knows of the AP is what they are told. All the AP knows of the WS is what they are told.

 

while there is also another thread that discusses many affair partners being introduced to the family of the married partner, so I was interested in hearing from other unfaithful spouses and "other men / women" to what extent they would agree with that claim, that basically all they know about the person that they are having an affair with is what that person told them.

 

It is not my experience at all. Nor from what I have read here is it the experience of many others, especially as many work together, or were friends that became lovers, or know each other from other contexts like shared hobbies or being neighbours. So I am wondering to what degree this belief is a "convenient fiction" that allows spouses to reconcile after an affair or to what degree it represents a different kind of affair, one that might be easier to reconcile from because the married partner was not that invested in the affair in the first place.

[wellwhynot]

that basically all they know about the person that they are having an affair with is what that person told them.

 

So I am wondering to what degree this belief is a "convenient fiction" that allows spouses to reconcile after an affair or to what degree it represents a different kind of affair, one that might be easier to reconcile from because the married partner was not that invested in the affair in the first place.

 

 

I absolutely believe it is a convenient fiction...for me anyhow, because we have a relationship we aren't just sleeping together.

That's like saying basically all someone knows of their fiance is what is told of them, or their long term boyfriend, or their spouse.

In some cases I would counterargue that in some relationships the AP may actually know the WS better than the BS, because the BS may no longer be participating in things that the WS is interested in. If they ever did.

[Bittersweetie]

I'd met my xOM online, and were the same age, but we had never met before or moved in the same circles. It turns out we'd been at the same university together for a year but still had never run into each other, there or in the years afterward in this area. After it was over, I've never seen him again because there was no situations or circles that we shared. From what I've learned here and in other places, it seems my situation was a little unusual.

 

In terms of what I knew about him, it was what he told me himself. Though I admit that during the A I googled and facebooked to learn more. But I never referenced the things I learned from those searches unless he brought them up. And it wasn't like I learned big things from those either; like I found out what street he lived on. So I would agree with the statement that all I knew about xAP was what he told me.

 

Does this answer your question?

[Bellechica]

I absolutely knew my exOM deeply. He had been a close friend for ten years prior to the A which destroyed the friendship. I knew his secrets, his vices, his kindness, desires, his complexity, his hopes, his moodiness. I knew him on all levels.

I also know that the best thing for my family is that the exOM will never be a part of my life.

[woinlove]

In some cases all one knows is what the AP tells you and in other cases not. For me, as an OW, the former was mainly true until the truth came out and we were out in the open as a couple, then it turned into the latter. Once we were out in the open, it was like any of my other Rs (for us, not for the effect on his BW and family, obviously).

 

As it turned out, what I knew from him wasn't even always the truth, and I guess him lying without my knowing was also easier before we were out in the open, because there just are a lot less connections as a couple when things are hidden. It's a bit more a world of two with your shared secret, and undetected lies are pretty easy for someone who can lie in that way, and obviously a WS deceiving his W can lie.

[bentnotbroken]

Mr. Messy knew the person the OW presented to the public. Then he got involved and found out the "real" OW. His family paid the price for his "knowledge". At least he knew that introducing her to any family would be an azz whipping he wasn't willing to risk, that was not an issue.

[Owl]

It might not be only "what you're told"...but it's certainly "all he let you see" of him.

 

Especially in cases where it's a MM/MW who has considered cheating for a while, or a serial cheater.

 

They can still share hobbies with you, present you with the person that they want you to see...it's a form of 'grooming'. Same thing about discussing their home life and marriage. If they have any reason to view you as a potential affair/play partner to begin with, it's easy to spin things from the very beginning to appear much worse than they really are. If you do end up as an affair/play partner, it's foundation work to let them succeed. If you don't, it's not like you'll ever know them well enough to catch them at that 'grooming' effort.

[carhill]

Though this is historical, I had broken bread in her parent's house, visited and stayed overnight at two of her four sister's homes, visited her son and daughter and their children in a distant state with her, and generally had a pretty good overview of her life. Some of this happened while she was M and some while she was with her BF later. I did her taxes, held her when she was wracked with pain and fear, and listened to her talk about her difficult childhood and matched that up with things I saw in her family as an adult.

 

The one area I presumed too much was the area about her H at the time of the first EA. I did not yet understand at that time (25 years ago) about marital re-writes and affair fog and all those things. She had me hating her H as much as she appeared to. I would learn much later that my hate was largely misplaced and that this is relatively normal to experience when one is ignorant in this area. So, in that sense, I didn't know her M well. Otherwise, few surprises, though lots of incompatibilities would come to light over the ensuing 25 years.

 

The depth of intimacy we had shared, the love letters (long prior to the internet), the phone calls, the ILY's, the physical affection, the future plans, in reality had little impact upon her multiple 'reconciliations' over the 20 or so years she was married. It was like a switch. When she flipped it, I was irrelevant. I would later learn in therapy about how such psychologies work. Therapy helped a lot. I'm at peace with it now.

[SoMovinOn]

I've known MOW for most of my life. We dated for 7+ years a long time ago. I've known her longer than her H has, and, because he has serious communications issues, it's fairly obvious I know more about her and know her better than he does. I know her family and friends and have spend considerable time with them as well.

 

Given all that, the concept that I only know her by what she tells me would be totally wrong.

[Furious]

Externally affair partners may know alot about each other, but internally, I don't think so. Most in affairs have their game face on, showing and telling all in the best of light.

 

OW/OM would be surprised to hear and see the real person in their home environment, who can actually be the opposit of who they have portrayed themselves as.

[beenburned]

All my H's OW were all young, single and were just f*** buddies. None of them had any kind of relationship, as he only made brief deliveries to their place of business. The deed was either done in the back room or in OW's car in the parking lot.

 

The only thing they knew about him was he was married with young children, and they didn't care as long as they got what they wanted.

[wellwhynot]

Externally affair partners may know alot about each other, but internally, I don't think so. Most in affairs have their game face on, showing and telling all in the best of light.

 

OW/OM would be surprised to hear and see the real person in their home environment, who can actually be the opposit of who they have portrayed themselves as.

 

Perhaps in short term affairs, where the time spent is very limited, but I can't imagine the mental stamina and how exhausting that would be to maintain an illusion of the course of a long term relationship with many hours a day spent together. I am sure it is the case in some situations of course, but I stand by my original thoughts.

[Radagast]

OW/OM would be surprised to hear and see the real person in their home environment, who can actually be the opposit of who they have portrayed themselves as.

 

There is ironically some truth in this. At home I had become a withdrawn shell which was the opposite of how I was with my lover. Sometimes the person and how they are at home is very different to how they are with their affair partner, but it is not always the affair partner who is getting the fake. Sometimes the marriage reduces the spouses to roles and parents rather than the individuals they used to be and so it is only outside of that context that they can really be themselves.

[Furious]

Perhaps in short term affairs, where the time spent is very limited, but I can't imagine the mental stamina and how exhausting that would be to maintain an illusion of the course of a long term relationship with many hours a day spent together. I am sure it is the case in some situations of course, but I stand by my original thoughts.

 

Unless the the OW/OM has a front row seat in the MM/MW's home, or better yet a civilized sit down with the BS and their spouse, no one will ever know what was fiction or reality.

 

In today's day and age, a person spends more hours per day outside of the home at their job, than they do at home. There many hours a day a WS can devote to their affair partner. I don't think it is as exhausting or requires an extraordinary amount of stamina to maintain a long term affair.

[wellwhynot]

Unless the the OW/OM has a front row seat in the MM/MW's home, or better yet a civilized sit down with the BS and their spouse, no one will ever know what was fiction or reality.

 

In today's day and age, a person spends more hours per day outside of the home at their job, than they do at home. There many hours a day a WS can devote to their affair partner. I don't think it is as exhausting or requires an extraordinary amount of stamina to maintain a long term affair.

 

THAT wasn't what I said. I said if he spends more time with her it would be exhausting to pretend to be someone you are not for that length of time and that many hours.

I think many times they've just change as a person, and they only continue to act in a way that is "expected" at home... because... well.. it's expected.

[Danie]

All we can ever know about any one is what they allow us to know. We can't truly know another's mind. I'd say this is true for all people and all relationships.

[Owl]

THAT wasn't what I said. I said if he spends more time with her it would be exhausting to pretend to be someone you are not for that length of time and that many hours.

I think many times they've just change as a person, and they only continue to act in a way that is "expected" at home... because... well.. it's expected.

 

Interesting to note that most BS's believe he's "acting differently" when he's out with OW/OM, but acting "normally" at home because they've known him for years...and the OW/OM claim that he's acting "authentically" with them but "differently" at home.

 

In truth...I'd expect that they're showing BOTH SIDES what each side wants/needs to see in order to continue on with the status quo.

 

In other words...both parties only know/see what the MM/MW wants them to know/see.

[wellwhynot]

Interesting to note that most BS's believe he's "acting differently" when he's out with OW/OM, but acting "normally" at home because they've known him for years...and the OW/OM claim that he's acting "authentically" with them but "differently" at home.

 

In truth...I'd expect that they're showing BOTH SIDES what each side wants/needs to see in order to continue on with the status quo.

 

In other words...both parties only know/see what the MM/MW wants them to know/see.

 

I think that's true for every relationship. No matter the status.

[Owl]

I think that's true for every relationship. No matter the status.

 

Perhaps...but I believe it's GREATLY exaggerated in an affair, where the deception of at least one (but more typically both) of the MM/MW's 'partners' is mandated.

 

He/she HAS TO lie, even if by omission, to at least one of the other two people. If he/she is capable/willing/demonstrating the ability to lie to one person to whom they cared enough about to marry/etc...it's a pretty good indicator that he's willing to do it whenever he/she feels it's required to maintain that same status.

 

It may happen in other relationships...but it's much more a REQUIREMENT in an affair than it is in one not based on the deception of one of the key 'players'.

[trinity1]

Externally affair partners may know alot about each other, but internally, I don't think so. Most in affairs have their game face on, showing and telling all in the best of light.

 

OW/OM would be surprised to hear and see the real person in their home environment, who can actually be the opposit of who they have portrayed themselves as.

 

For some wayward spouses this is true. It depends on what the motivation for the affair is. Just sex? - well, then the above is correct. But many WS are instead looking to put the guard down, to stop being the perfect man and husband, to show their own true inner emotions. Already having a woman (the wife) at home, they look for more and are not satisfied unless they find it. They can now risk being their true authentic selves because they have nothing to lose. It's an all or nothing case. Either you take me as I am or not at all, because I already have a woman at home and am not in need of a relationship unless it truly provides me with what I want.

[Furious]

For some wayward spouses this is true. It depends on what the motivation for the affair is. Just sex? - well, then the above is correct. But many WS are instead looking to put the guard down, to stop being the perfect man and husband, to show their own true inner emotions. Already having a woman (the wife) at home, they look for more and are not satisfied unless they find it. They can now risk being their true authentic selves because they have nothing to lose. It's an all or nothing case. Either you take me as I am or not at all, because I already have a woman at home and am not in need of a relationship unless it truly provides me with what I want.

 

 

I agree to disagree. I don't believe a person can be a truer or authentic self if that means having to be that in secrecy.

 

I just call that cake eating.

[trinity1]

I agree to disagree. I don't believe a person can be a truer or authentic self if that means having to be that in secrecy.

 

I just call that cake eating.

 

We all have sides of ourselves we show to noone. Daring to show them to one other person (in this case the affair partner) and thus be living more authentically on the outside can hopefully be a first step in living authentically across the board.

 

I know this to be the case with Neo. With me he has been more true to his authentic self than he has ever before dared to be with anyone. It has changed him. He is different in his marriage too now. He is more authentic there also as he has become stronger in his conviction that it is okay to not always be the perfect man and husband, to share emotions, to question old ways of living. Unfortunately there is a big lie of course in the marriage as he hides the fact that he has an other woman. Therefore the wife sees less of the authentic Neo than I do.

 

With me he has dared to be a partner in life rather than the perfect caring and providing husband.

[Danie]

It seems to me that one is either authentic or they are not authentic. I really don’t see how one can be both at the same time.

 

Trinity, I’m going to use Neo as an example here. Neo is authentic with you but not with his wife? Either way he is being unauthentic for a portion of his time. He’s essentially cut himself in two. I’m not sure if this type of self division can be sustained long term and the individual remain (or become) a healthy individual.

 

Let me explain my views on ‘self.’ I believe that every person has four parts of ‘self’ that are mental, physical, spiritual, and emotional. When I say he’s cut himself in two it’s literally he is living two different lives. In one he’s with his wife and he is not authentic to his true nature. In another he’s with you and he is authentic to his true nature. Both of these sides of himself are (probably) warring inside of him. Both are different. Each is true for whatever amount of time he needs them to be true. Then it’s off to the other side. I just don’t see how living this way is healthy for any individual. It seems to me that this type of existence would create a sense of…I’m at a loss for the correct word here….dissonance (?) within themselves.

 

To be honest this is one reason I was willing to let go of my husband when he was caught up in the pull of that relationship. I didn’t want him to be torn inside so I was willing to step aside so he could fully realize his life. If his life wasn’t with me then that’s the way it would be.

 

Anyway, this is to say that if one is truly to live an authentic life then, IMHO, they need to practice that authenticity in their actions and their thoughts.

[Bellechica]

I can see both sides of these authenticity of self. I do think if someone is leading two lives then it is impossible to be one's self with both. I agree with Trinity that perhaps Neo is learning to be ironically more open with his W....in some ways.

My exOM with whom I was more open, did teach me that I don't need to be perfect to be loved. He and I fought a lot. There was much more drama, and it was a roller coaster, but now that the A is over, I believe I've gained the strength to fight for my M and be more open with how my H and I can reconnect.

I didn't know all of my needs weren't being met. My H and I have serious communication issues as well as some other major problems, but at least we are both waking up to reconnecting and being there for each other.

It's a slow process, but we are much better now than before I had the A.

[Owl]

I'm going to disagree completely with some of this here.

 

I believe that people are "authentic" with those that have no impact in their lives. They're more "authentic" with strangers than with someone who matters....because they have nothing to lose when they're "authentic" with someone who doesn't matter in their lives.

 

To tie that thought back into the original post...perhaps at first the MM/MW is more "authentic" with their prospective affair partner...because they have nothing to lose if that person walks away.

 

But as that person becomes more and more 'valuable' to them....the greater the loss if that person walks away...they begin to lie and decieve as needed to maintain the status quo.

 

In my own situation...my wife was never more honest with me than the day that she was supposed to get on that plane and be with OM. Because at that point...there was nothing left to lose with me. She'd already 'lost' me...so she was pretty darned honest. Brutally so in fact.

 

Something to consider.