Vacation love affair

May 17, 2012

everytime i hear a person say "i would rather not know," i always go back and think about "The Allegory of the Cave"(Plato).

How scared people are of realizing the "truth." i couldn't imagine a world where we are so afraid of the consequences when searching out truth and honesty. how some people would rather live in darkness, as opposed to light.

this is especially true in a marriage, because there is no marriage without truth and honesty. you are fooling yourselves - just as the prisoner did in the story - if you think you have it all figured out.

sad.....really sad. i feel sorry for these people.

May 17, 2012

everytime i hear a person say "i would rather not know," i always go back and think about "The Allegory of the Cave"(Plato).

How scared people are of realizing the "truth." i couldn't imagine a world where we are so afraid of the consequences when searching out truth and honesty. how some people would rather live in darkness, as opposed to light.

this is especially true in a marriage, because there is no marriage without truth and honesty. you are fooling yourselves - just as the prisoner did in the story - if you think you have it all figured out.

sad.....really sad. i feel sorry for these people.

Yep, it is an "illusion" when there is no truth.

It's a M based on NO foundation, lies and no REAL way of knowing what you "have" or " don't have".

It's all pretend - because what you "think you have" - you really don't have at all.

And when you find out that what you have isn't what you thought it was - its hard to ever "fully trust" again.

An illusion... Based on false evidence appearing real... Otherwise known as lies.

May 18, 2012

If I could take it all back and not have the As, I would but for the present Love is:
1. Choosing to stop acbehavior that even though it made me feel alive and exhilarated at times, stopping it because it was wrong and hurtful to my H.
2. Giving 100 percent of my devotion and attention to my H and family.
3. Staying NC with OM and setting up boundaries.
4. Seeking counseling so I never repeat horrible choices.
5. Being patient that reconnecting and rebuilding a M will take time.
6. Feeling remorseful for my actions.
7. Doing loving things each day for my H and seeing the positives in him, but realizing he isn't perfect. No one is.
8. Putting his needs before my own.
9. Knowing him well enough to know that he would rather not know of the As.
10. Being strong enough to take the heat on LS when others have opinions which differ from my own because I know that despite my pour choices, I know that I am a good person with morals who messed up, but that I'm growing and I will fight for my M.

That is love for now.....

#9 is self-preservation. Nothing more, nothing less.

#10 is laughable. This is an anonymous message board with no real consequences.

For the OP, honesty is a MUST in marriage. Without complete and total honesty, what do you really have?

May 18, 2012

Vlove,

Do what works for you and your family. I made the choice not to tell and we are reconnecting and contrary to the naysayers opinions, it's going very well.

Our M is better than it was before the As. We both are working on it and getting satisfaction in so many ways from each other. Lots of positives. I'm the only one who knows my H and our lives, so I know what works for us.

Vlove, are you still there? You never answered my question about whether or not you're still in contact with the OM.

May 18, 2012

How do you reconnect without being honest?! That's just not reality. Reconnecting is what happens when you know 100% truth about the other and ACCEPT it and still WANT to reconnect.

May 18, 2012

Vlove,
Do what works for you and your family. I made the choice not to tell and we are reconnecting and contrary to the naysayers opinions, it's going very well.
Our M is better than it was before the As. We both are working on it and getting satisfaction in so many ways from each other. Lots of positives. I'm the only one who knows my H and our lives, so I know what works for us.

Vlove, are you still there? You never answered my question about whether or not you're still in contact with the OM.

Bellechica -- I wish you both well -- because if your husband ever finds out -- no matter how he finds out and how long after the affair -- it will not be the affair and the acts that will hurt him the most -- but the years of lies and deceipt. Everytime you look at him and tell him you love him today -- it is tainted. Everytime you make love to him -- it is tainted. Maybe he will never find out -- you seem fairly certain of that -- but if you read this forum and other forums -- that may not be the case. --Good luck !!

May 18, 2012

Vlove,

Without complete and total honesty, you are always hiding this from your BH. While the cheating may end, the deception continues. As a BS, I can tell you, the lies and deception are worse than the actual cheating itself.

Are you able to live with the fact that, without telling your BH, you are willingly deceptive to him? Remember, there are lies of commission and lies of omission.

May 18, 2012

Vlove, besides the moral question of being honest or dishonest to your spouse, you still should be aware that the vast majority of affairs are eventually discovered. We have many examples, here on LS, of affairs being revealed 5, 10, or more years after the fact, and the more affairs a person has, the greater the chances of discovery. One thing is fairly certain, however, those affairs disclosed by the WS are far more likely to result in reconciliation, than those that are discovered by any other means. I would recommend that you visit other websites that are concerned with infidelity, and you will find that the VAST majority recommend that IF you want to stay in the marriage, you should disclose the affair to your MP in a positive, respectful way. This is your greatest tool for proving your renewed committment to your spouse, and regaining your trustworthiness.

May 18, 2012

I think Vlove left.....

May 18, 2012

OP do you know what is like to find out your whole life is a lie and the person who stands in your face telling they love you is the one doing the lying? It is devastating.

In the end, to the BS...THIS is what it boils down to. Any WS who withholds any information is NOT creating a good marriage no matter how much "nice" stuff they do or "happiness" they create. This crap about sparing the BS and keeping the secret is just that...CRAP! It is nothing more than self serving, self preservation, egotistical crap. In my humble opinion, not telling and keeping these secrets is worse than the affair itself. I wouldn't be in a positive point in my new marriage had my WW not told me the truth.

May 18, 2012

Vlove, if you're still here, please answer my question about whether or not you are still in contact with the OM. If you truly love your H, you can't be in contact with him ever again. Also, if you plan on keeping your A a secret, you need to be certain that your friend with whom you went to LV will never tell your H.

You also need to make sure there is no evidence of the A, no texts or calls to the OM while you were in LV.

If you love your H and want the M to work then you will need to fix what is broken in you so you never have another A.

Reconnection is possible even if you choose not to confess, but you have to be certain the secret never comes out and that you don't ever do it again. There will be times where you will feel guilty. Don't listen to the Eagle's song "lying eyes", but you have to consider what is being preserved for the greater good for all.

The path of less pain for the majority.

You haven't posted in awhile. I hope you are well and that starting this thread hasn't been too painful for you. I know it can be tough.

May 18, 2012

"Reconnection is possible even if you choose not to confess..."

WHAT?!! How can you reconnect if you aren't truthful? Besides, wtf is there to "reconnect" for if your BS doesn't know anything even happened? Again - self serving and selfish. There is no "greater good for all" by lying. That's not a marriage. Its a LIE. I'd say ask your BS if they'd be okay with you keeping such a secret for your marriage and then decide if not telling is for the "greater good" or not. People who espouse this kind of advice would be the first one's out the door if the shoe was on the other foot.

May 18, 2012

Reconnection is possible even if you choose not to confess

Sure. But only because the smited party is being fooled. And not confessing, IMO, is mental abuse and manipulation. The BS is being brainwashed into thinking their cheating spouse is something they are not.

May 18, 2012

Vlove..many a people have gone to their graves with the secret of an affair, and lived happy, productive lives in between. Only you can answer whether or not you can carry that burden. Most of the people on here bashing you were the BS's and are giving you their opinion about what they would have wanted. The people who carried the burden and lived on are most likely not posting here. So, IMHO, if this was just a fling as you said and just a mistake, and if you want to stay married, and if you can carry the guilt, then it would serve no purpose in telling him. If you don't want to stay married, then divorce him and keep your mouth shut. There are a lot of if's to consider, but either way, don't let anyone guilt trip you into doing something more foolish than what you did in Vegas.

May 18, 2012

True, standtall...it would seem that most of us who are "bashing" (not the correct term IMO but whatever) are the BS's. However, is there any way that keeping something like an affair secret...something that should eat one away with guilt, a way to live a healthy and good marriage? I think that is the question. Not telling is purely self preservation. Prove that otherwise. Maybe in the end, some people truly don't believe in doing what's right. Hence, they go "to their graves" with their secret(s).

May 18, 2012

I just can't bear the thought of Hurting him or leaving him alone. But I am not sure I love him enough to be married. His whole family will be crushed and I will have to live with that guilt. I'm not sure which guilt will be worse.

Does anyone have any advice?

Leave him. If you loved him, you would have never have cheated to begin with. You'll both be better in the long run. You will find someone who will love you again. Let your current husband go so that he may find someone who will truly love him, because no matter what you say, you don't love him. Divorces happen in the world, so don't act like it's the worst life changing thing in the world. Sometimes divorce makes EVERYBODY's life better.

Think about it.

May 18, 2012

Vlove..many a people have gone to their graves with the secret of an affair, and lived happy, productive lives in between. Only you can answer whether or not you can carry that burden. Most of the people on here bashing you were the BS's and are giving you their opinion about what they would have wanted. The people who carried the burden and lived on are most likely not posting here. So, IMHO, if this was just a fling as you said and just a mistake, and if you want to stay married, and if you can carry the guilt, then it would serve no purpose in telling him. If you don't want to stay married, then divorce him and keep your mouth shut. There are a lot of if's to consider, but either way, don't let anyone guilt trip you into doing something more foolish than what you did in Vegas.

Ok, so not only is your solution to get away with cheating, but to be a liar and deceiver as well.

Got it.

May 18, 2012

Vlove..So, IMHO, if this was just a fling as you said and just a mistake, .

It was not a "mistake". Forgetting to pay the water bill is a mistake. This was a calculated decision to betray her BH.

May 19, 2012

Vlove..many a people have gone to their graves with the secret of an affair, and lived happy, productive lives in between. Only you can answer whether or not you can carry that burden. Most of the people on here bashing you were the BS's and are giving you their opinion about what they would have wanted. The people who carried the burden and lived on are most likely not posting here. So, IMHO, if this was just a fling as you said and just a mistake, and if you want to stay married, and if you can carry the guilt, then it would serve no purpose in telling him. If you don't want to stay married, then divorce him and keep your mouth shut. There are a lot of if's to consider, but either way, don't let anyone guilt trip you into doing something more foolish than what you did in Vegas.

Vlove , I disagree with this poster. I was not the BS, I was the OM, but I feel that the only path to true recovery is through honesty and communication. I am not alone in this, as most MC's agree with a marriage based on integrity. Just so you know, I would look at the past posts of those posters that are advising you to continue to deceive your husband. They will always excuse their behavior with noble motives , but if you read their posts you will see how selfish they truly are. I advise you to see for yourself, don't take my word for it. Edited May 19, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

May 19, 2012

So what bs reason would she give? Because he is going to want to know. If he is kept in the dark, he will wonder what happened and won't be able to move on as easily.

On the other hand, if he knows she cheated, he knows the truth and possibly, like me, will more easily be able to accept divorce. If I hadn't found out about my x-wife's cheating, and she was the one that ended up divorcing without telling me the truth, I'd still be wondering why. But knowing that she cheated made it MUCH easier. It also prompted me to be the one to file for divorce.

The whole, "there is no reason to burden him and hurt him with the knowledge that I cheated" thing is bunk. Only reason to not tell is to save face.

She could simply tell him that she's not in love with him any longer and that he deserves to be in a relationship where his spouse loves him fully and completely. Short, sweet, accurate.

May 19, 2012

I do think that Vlove is no longer in love with her H. I think she would still be posting if she wanted to work on improving herself and making her M work.

Many people here on LS are religious. I see that. I am not. I am a spiritual person, but not religious. I obviously agree that cheating is wrong which is why I stopped on my own accord. I try to think logically. While I was in the A, I lost all sense of self. I wasn't able to think logically. I lost my sense of control. At present, I see the situation as such: three scenarios:

Choice A (keep A secret) harms person A (me)

Choice B (disclosure) harms personA, person B, person C, person D, person E, person F, person G, person H

Choice C (not really a choice but a very remote possibility, which is A is revealed by some means beyond my control) harms personA, person B, person C, person D, person E, person F, person G, person H

I realize that many posters will not agree with this logic. I choose choice A. Most people in my situation who would choose choice A most likely do not become posters on LS as they see the risk in posting here or they may become serial cheaters because they got away with it and may continue their behavior.

I love my H despite what anyone believes and I want to make our M work. I am fixing the issues, he is as well, that allowed me to get to a point in my life where I had the As.

I am able to work past the guilt and shame because I must now be the best W, mother, daughter, daughter in law, person that I can be. I am not perfect, but I'm not so flawed and stupid that I will repeat the choice to have an A.

I am much stronger than that....

May 19, 2012

Belle, i know you believe the stuff that you are saying but go read ladydesigns thread. You are literally mirroring what she did and she eventually realized that she had to tell and that all of her progress was not real.

You keep saying that you have decided not to tell and that it was the right path for you but this is still fresh for you and you are still learning. In a time you will realize that you are still doing the wrong thing and you will regret trying to convince others to follow in your path. Its destructive and your actions will consume you for years to come.

Ladydesign didn't want to believe everyone when we told her that she should tell and she fought it for a long-time.

I do not try to convince others to follow my path. I merely state that there are various views. There isn't only one solution or path to every issue. Each person should make his or her own choice based on his or her own situation. I'm not on LS to convert people to the "dark side".

You may view my M as fake or fantasy. The A was fantasy and an escape from reality in many ways. My M although still flawed is reality. I don't expect perfection in my M, my H or myself, but I see the work that it takes to reconnect as real. I know my H. I know myself. Both of us would choose not to know of an A if it meant recommitment to each other and choosing never to have another A. He and I are very similar and it's our conflict avoidance issue and lack of communication that drove us apart. We are addressing these issues and seeing improvement.

The As woke me up and allowed me to see the value in my M and my H. If he has or had an A to allow him to see the same then I would be pleased that he chose me and our M.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Bellechica

May 19, 2012

She could simply tell him that she's not in love with him any longer and that he deserves to be in a relationship where his spouse loves him fully and completely. Short, sweet, accurate.

This suggestion is still NOT being honest!

It with holds critical info that completely affects the BH.

May 19, 2012

True, standtall...it would seem that most of us who are "bashing" (not the correct term IMO but whatever) are the BS's. However, is there any way that keeping something like an affair secret...something that should eat one away with guilt, a way to live a healthy and good marriage? I think that is the question. Not telling is purely self preservation. Prove that otherwise. Maybe in the end, some people truly don't believe in doing what's right. Hence, they go "to their graves" with their secret(s).

Okay, I'm going to bite and take a completely different path on this philosophy.

All this talk about "doing what's right" and "self-preservation" is somewhat disingenuous if you look at the bigger picture and consider the average Western or European value marriage.

SD, even if it's for self-preservation what's the difference?

I don't disagree that coming clean is the best way, but each person must do it when and if the timing is right. Belle for instance may come to terms with telling her husband six months or six years from now. Or maybe never. Maybe she'll never reveal it and still turn her situation around at home. It happens all the time.

She's the one who has to decide if she can live with this and if she can, and she resumes trying to make her marriage work, and has forsaken the OM, then that might be what works for her.

My issue with all this focus on "lying" comes down to this. We are all liars. Nobody tells the absolute truth . . . even on a daily basis. That's actually a strongly Biblical position for those who care.

Trust me. I can stop 9 out of 10 people for a traffic violation and the most innocuous and ordinary average decent tax paying citizen will go into self-preservation mode as soon as I begin conversing with them. They will waste no time lying to me. I've had little old ladies do it. I'm talking about someone's grandmother! It's in our DNA to self-preserve and avoid harm, embarrassment, or even paying for a traffic ticket. This is why children do it from a very early age. Nobody teaches a child to lie. They simply know from the time they are old enough to walk that lying is a way to avoid trouble and angry parents. It's innately in us.

The problem with this "you can't build a marriage on a lie" approach is that millions and millions of marriages without an affair even tossed into the equation are built on a lie. How about the "lie of omission?" How many spouses are just *staying* in marriages where there is no love, no compassion, no intimacy? We see postings like this just about daily on loveshack. Why are we not treating those spouses the exact same way and demanding that they become *transparent* and tell their spouses that they truly are not in love with them? They are living a lie after all.

Oftentimes, what intimacy and love are still in the marriage are exaggerated or faked by one or even both spouses to get by, to avoid conflict, or to just pretend. It's the easy road for many of these people. Rather than being *truthful* they allow their spouses to go on believing that they still truly love them to avoid the conflict and create what they perceive as an unnecessary crisis. In other words, a form of self-preservation. Isn't this also a lie? Doesn't the spouse who is no longer in love have an obligation to share this with the spouse who may still be completely head over heals still in love? Otherwise, isn't this marriage built on a falsehood or a lie?

This is why we see the common pattern of those who enter into affairs but post on loveshack about not being truly "in love" with their spouse for a number of years, or they talk about a lack of touch, emotion, communication, or connection with their spouse long before they cheated. These people are often living a lie and just never owned up to it with their spouse. They stay in marriages because of children, finances, convenience, safety, security . . . the list goes on and on. Again, the motive is often self-preservation. But is this not living a lie?

When we see the 20-year old hot blond marry the 65-year old millionaire, we all know it's a lie. It's blatantly obvious to everyone who reads such tabloid stories what's really the true motive. But most marriages involving a spouse who has lost all emotional interest in the other spouse aren't nearly that obvious . . . and so that spouse who is faking it descends into remaining in the marriage for self-preservation reasons that are often never revealed, and we see millions of individuals in less than happy marriages simply go to the grave with that knowledge every single day.

You mentioned not revealing an affair as not allowing for a "good or healthy marriage" to ensue, and I'd argue the same in these facade marriage situations . . . it's just that these types of marriages go unnoticed because they blend in and never pop up on the radar like an full-blown affair does. But they are just as much based on an fabrication or untruth as not revealing the affair are they not?

The typical person often gets married for the right reasons. Unfortunately, they typically stay in a marriage that they really want out of for all the wrong reasons.

My point is simply this. None of us are completely honest with our spouses and therefore it could be argued that most marriages are indeed built on a lie, and while an affair is and will always be the King of Lies, I would argue that the Queen of Lies is staying in a marriage and allowing / leading your spouse to believe that you truly love them, when in fact you do not . . . but for self-preservation purposes and to "keep the peace" and "avoid conflict" you keep that information to yourself. There really isn't a big difference when you get right down to it.

May 19, 2012

Vlove, If you are still reading these posts, you can plainly see the lengths some people will go to, to justify continued deceit. They have absolutely no proof of any of their conjectures, Whereas, the VAST majority of responsible marriage counselors and the VAST majority of websites that deal with infidelity, will ALWAYS counsel honesty , communication and respect. (BTW, you also probably noted that those posters that say it is alright to continue to lie and deceive, very seldom mention communication or respect for their BS'S.) You are an adult, you obviously have access to a computer, so I say to you, look this stuff up. Don't take my word for anything or anyone else's. Look it up for yourself. Do the research. I am confident that you will find that I'm telling you the truth.

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