Ghosts, Angels, Past Lives, etc

[thatone]

I don't think I can bump older threads, otherwise I would. I don't expect many responses, I'm just curious as to what you have experienced that has left you feeling that there is more "out there". I'm not religious, and I stopped believing in anything good out there for a while, but I've been thinking about this again.

 

When I was almost four years old, there was a lot of tension in our little home, and I couldn't remember why - in my strongest memory from when we first lived in America. I could only remember my mother being awake in the early hours of the morning (unusual for her then), and a friend of hers was sitting at the kitchen table, talking with her. My sister and I were playing underneath the table, with our toys.

 

Later that night, as mum's friend was leaving (around 5am) to go back to her own trailer (we lived in Clear Lake, CA, over the other side of a very steep hill, and my mother hated it there), I was running off to crawl into my parents' bed with my dad, when I suddenly stopped, and said to mum, "Oh, Mommy, look at the beautiful angel!" I was in awe of something that neither of them could see. Her friend, Mona, got all nervous, and asked my mother to call her at home, and to leave the phone off the hook so that she would hear anything if something happened (she was Catholic, I think, and thought that angels were a bad omen). I added something like,"Angels won't hurt you, will they mommy?" and she assured me that they wouldn't. I then went into bed with my dad, snuggled up and went to sleep. About half-an-hour later, my baby sister ran to my mother, buried her head in her lap, and was twisting around, frantically saying something about a bird, and that it was going to get her (she'd pointed up in the air).

 

I had a dream about this when I was sixteen, and going through a really hard time. I asked Mum if I'd ever mentioned seeing an angel, and she told me the above. It turned out that that parts of that night were burned into my memory, because it was the night before Mum left Dad, and took us back to England. She was afraid he would catch on to what she was doing, and stop her from taking us home with her. I feel bad talking about this, because he's a good dad (they remarried in 1990), and a good husband now, but they were going through a bad patch. He'd been upset that night, because he was annoyed, threw his shoe, and it accidentally hit me.

 

I've had a few experiences that lead me to believe in spirits hanging around, but this has stuck with me - and I'm not religious. I'm not sure what to believe, but I don't want anyone coming in here and saying, "Pfft, angels don't exist, you imagined it, blah blah blah." Not in this thread. I just wondered if anyone else had experienced something like that.

 

but children have 'imaginary friends' all the time. that's the most common and logical explanation.

 

or we could get into the notion that if the universe is infinite there are infinite versions of you, me, and everyone else out there. that's simple math...infinite is infinite.

 

when you add in the theory that parallel dimensions do exist and the theory that perhaps black holes are where they collide...

 

it's not hard to find a lot of perfectly plausible realistic explanations for such things. the catch is how to wrap it around human limits of perception.

 

i think as more answers become apparent over time mysticism and reality will blend more and more as such mysteries mesh up with plausible scientific theory.

[quickjoe]

Where are you looking for these divine beings? What would they appear like? How would you know if they did intervene?

Ugh. This has nothing to do with me; this is about people who (unlike me) do claim that gods intervene to answer prayers.

I suggest to you that it's happening everywhere, but for some reason only those who have spiritual discernment can see it. There are even cases in the Bible where beings physically manifest--but are only visible to a select person or group of people at any given time.

This is an entirely speculative and useless claim. You are simply making things up and I see no reason to waste any more of my time listening to your wild claims and fantasy presented as fact.

[M30USA]

Quickjoe,

 

It's very easy to brush a complex issue aside and say that, just because evidence doesnt come flying at you, that something doesn't exist. Regarding the existence (or nonexistence) of UFOs as angelic beings, I will make 2 points to you:

 

1) How long, in hours, have you researched the data and evidence on this subject? I don't mean Hollywood movies, X Files, or fiction. I'm talking about hard evidence research from people like journalist Leslie Kean, Dr. John Mack of Harvard, Dr. David Jacobs of Temple University, and Dr. Allen Hynek. The very nature of paranormal phenomenon is such that it requires proof by s method other than the scientific method. How can you prove something which lacks repeatability in a lab setting? You can't. In such cases we must use more along the lines of what courts use: testimony, reasonable physical evidence, consistency, etc.

 

2) Consider the possibility that the elusive, hidden nature of angels and UFOs doesn't mean they don't exist, but rather that they might have a REASON for remaining hidden. At least admit the possibility.

[Nohbody]

Who wants to perform the Abramelin Ritual?

[M30USA]

Who wants to perform the Abramelin Ritual?

 

Not sure, but the Suicide of Thought Ritual has already been performed already on this thread.

[Nohbody]

 

1)The very nature of paranormal phenomenon is such that it requires proof by s method other than the scientific method. How can you prove something which lacks repeatability in a lab setting? You can't. In such cases we must use more along the lines of what courts use: testimony, reasonable physical evidence, consistency, etc.

 

2) Consider the possibility that the elusive, hidden nature of angels and UFOs doesn't mean they don't exist, but rather that they might have a REASON for remaining hidden. At least admit the possibility.

 

1) I'm sorry, but this is completely irrational. Investigating the (para)natural world is not the same as convincing a jury or judge of innocence or guilt. The court assumes innocence until guilt is proven. Therefore we should assume something exists out of hand until we can disprove its existence? That's a logical fallacy called "appeal to ignorance".

 

2) Suddenly my comment about the star Sirius seems more poignant. What is the dog-star telling you?

[pureinheart]

 

BTW, since we are in the Spirituality and Religious section, those of you with faith, please keep me in your prayers as I am having a rough go at it with my job recently.

 

You got it....

[Zed]

I know I've commented that I don't believe in ghosts or anything but I've had experiences that I can't explain. So maybe I need to rethink my skepticism.

 

I don't know if these experiences apply but they sort of do I think?

 

1. When I was a teacher in China, I was told by a Buddhist monk that he'd known me in a previous life (my first reaction was to think he was trying to flirt with me because I was with several of my Chinese students. But who knows.)

 

2. I had a dream 6 months before my Dad died, where I saw the details of his death. And he died exactly like my dream predicted.

 

3. When I was biking home the day of my accident, about 5 minutes before the truck hit me that I didn't see coming, I felt warm hands on both shoulders. I never shared that with anyone before. This feeling of warmth washed over me and then I was hit by the truck, knocked off my road bike, and went unconscious. Edit: Makes me a little teary eyed to recall that and share it publicly here.

 

4. When I was in the ICU the 3rd day post-accident, my sister came to visit. She'd just learned that she was 3 months pregnant with my nephew. Out of nowhere, I groggily asked her how her ovaries were doing (head injuries make people say weird things) and then told her that she was pregnant with a son. I also knew he would be born with autism. Turns out he was.

 

5. The day of the 35W bridge collapse in my city (a terrible tragedy) I went to my sister's house to go shopping with them. She wanted to take the 35W bridge to the mall but I had a sick feeling and persuaded her to go to a closer store instead. When we watched the news and saw the bridge collapse and all the victims we both burst into tears because we would have been on the bridge when it collapsed driving back to her house.

 

6. When I was an undergrad, I heard a voice in my head tell me "you're going to be robbed today at work" as I drove to my work-study job which was at the graduate business office of my university. Turns out, I was robbed and safety and security didn't get to the business office in time to catch the guy who luckily didn't harm me.

 

These instances appear as if you are naturally intuitive. Have you considered training, because you would probably be quite good as a precog empath/clairvoyant. Very interesting experiences.

[pureinheart]

In continuation of my last post, I want to add that I have done hundreds of hours of research on this subject and have concluded that the biblical angels are the occupants of what we call UFOs. The Bible is ripe with examples of UFOs. It even says God, himself, is among the "chariots" which fly in the "clouds". I will warn people, however, that this subject poses great risk for deception and cult practice, so be warned. That being said, many of the so-called UFOs are either operated, occupied by, or remotely operated by angelic beings who carry out either Gods will or Satan's. Additionally, as is the case with biblical angels, they operate in secret for whatever reason.

 

This is way cool. Just out of curiousity, I watch the History Channel a lot. Every so often they do the documentaries concerning things that don't make sense like how things got accomplished without modern technoloy. Like Stonehenge for instance. They try to reinact the ways that those large stones got to their current resting place and you know, other such mysteries.

 

I'd be very interested to get your take on this:)

[M30USA]

1) I'm sorry, but this is completely irrational. Investigating the (para)natural world is not the same as convincing a jury or judge of innocence or guilt. The court assumes innocence until guilt is proven. Therefore we should assume something exists out of hand until we can disprove its existence? That's a logical fallacy called "appeal to ignorance".

 

2) Suddenly my comment about the star Sirius seems more poignant. What is the dog-star telling you?

 

Prove to me using every criteria of the scientific method that Napoleon existed. You can't. Thats why we use other forms of proof such as historical documents (termed "manuscript witnesses") in that case. The world is bigger than what can be proven by the scientific method.

[Nohbody]

Prove to me using every criteria of the scientific method that Napoleon existed. You can't. Thats why we use other forms of proof such as historical documents (termed "manuscript witnesses") in that case. The world is bigger than what can be proven by the scientific method.

 

We aren't talking about history. This has nothing to do with what you were just talking about. You are jumping rails and demanding nonsense.

 

Nothing in science is ever proven. To prove something would be impossible. What you can say is "there appears to be a statistically consistent correlation between X and Y" and you can make a hypothesis to support this. If this hypothesis passes muster, it is a theory. Eventually, another theory will come along and replace the old one. The universe is non-simultaneously apprehended.

 

Since we are talking about testing the validity of a phenomenon, we use the scientific toolbox. If you arbitrarily decide that this phenomenon is "too cool for science" (which is apparently the basis of your argument), then there is no point. Shake your juju stick. Rattle your bones. But don't pretend to know what you are talking about when you discount scientific practices - because you very clearly do not have a clear understanding of what those entail.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Nohbody
Sorry, that came out meaner than I wanted it to. It's not a good night.

[M30USA]

We aren't talking about history. This has nothing to do with what you were just talking about. You are jumping rails and demanding nonsense.

 

Nothing in science is ever proven. To prove something would be impossible. What you can say is "there appears to be a statistically consistent correlation between X and Y" and you can make a hypothesis to support this. If this hypothesis passes muster, it is a theory. Eventually, another theory will come along and replace the old one. The universe is non-simultaneously apprehended.

 

Since we are talking about testing the validity of a phenomenon, we use the scientific toolbox. If you arbitrarily decide that this phenomenon is "too cool for science" (which is apparently the basis of your argument), then there is no point. Shake your juju stick. Rattle your bones. But don't pretend to know what you are talking about when you discount scientific practices - because you very clearly do not have a clear understanding of what those entail.

 

I don't understand scientific practices? Buddy, in university we had labs where we created our own hypotheses and tested them using all requirements of the scientific method. Don't tell me I don't know all about it.

 

Okay, let's subject the UFO phenomenon to the scientific method. We have observability (ie, traces on ground, eyewitness testimonies, radar returns, radiation picked up via Geiger counters, etc); we have measurability (ie, speeds picked up on radar which exceed anything humanly possible starting as early as the 1940s); we have falsifiability (ie, while 95% of UFO cases can be explained via natural phenomenon or human craft, there is roughly 5% that we KNOW FOR A FACT are absolutely not natural phenomenon or human-made craft); however, the one trait we do NOT have is repeatability (ie, we cannot replicate it over and over in a lab, simply due to the nature that we do not control these things). Therefore, by qualifications of the scientific method, since the UFO phenomenon lacks repeatbility, it cannot be subjected to the scientific method. By the way, the requirement of repeatability is also why the evolution debate cannot be used with the scientific method. You cannot repeat evolution. All you can do is re-simulate what you ASSUME the variables were in the past.

[Nohbody]

M30,

Fine. Bio101 taught you everything you need to know about science. I'm wrong, you are right. You win the internet.

[M30USA]

This is way cool. Just out of curiousity, I watch the History Channel a lot. Every so often they do the documentaries concerning things that don't make sense like how things got accomplished without modern technoloy. Like Stonehenge for instance. They try to reinact the ways that those large stones got to their current resting place and you know, other such mysteries.

 

I'd be very interested to get your take on this:)

 

I am undecided as to how ancient monuments were built. The reason I don't necessarily jump to the extraterrestrial on THIS subject is because I've seen some pretty mind-blowing things about how simple tools can do seemingly impossible things. For example, I saw a 60 year old man rotate an entire barnhouse by himself. LOL. How? He put a rotating axis in the center with a long wooden rod coming out under one side. Then he gently balanced the barn on the axis, and proceeded the rotate the entire barn alone--as a 60 year old man!

 

What impresses me more than the actual architecture and building of these monuments are things such as the way they are aligned to constellations. For example, on of the openings of the Great Pyramid is lined up to the Draco constellation (the Serpent). There are also writings of anceint civilizations who somehow knew of planets and star systems that we didn't know existed until the 1800s! You want to tell me they just discovered them on their own? I believe in this regard they were given information by angelic visitors. I believe that, while humans themselves might have built these monuments, they did so with the assistance of information given to them from an external source. (And by the way, the same is possibly still happening today, albeit in secret. This is one possible explanation for Area 51.)

[M30USA]

M30,

Fine. Bio101 taught you everything you need to know about science. I'm wrong, you are right. You win the internet.

 

Submit.

 

You are a "nobody", lol.

[writergal]

These instances appear as if you are naturally intuitive. Have you considered training, because you would probably be quite good as a precog empath/clairvoyant. Very interesting experiences.

 

Hey Zed. Thanks for your comments. Yeah I've had some really crazy experiences with my intuition. You know, I don't believe in "psychics" because I went to see one in my city who has her own center for a reading and guess what...she totally made stuff up about me!! I was so mad I had wasted my money because I had considered finding classes like you suggested, to develop my intuition which seems to work great when I read other people, but not so great when I try to read myself (prob. b/c I don't trust this ability).

 

My father was extremely intuitive too and my sister is as well. I think it could be we have really overdeveloped pituitary glands or something that makes us really sensitive and able to intuit stuff.

 

Like, when I went to England as an undergrad for a winter break trip with a group of students, I accidentally outed this fellow student while we were all at a pub discussing palm readings and psychics and stuff because a fair had been going on at the time in the city where we were. So as a joke (I thought) I grabbed this gal's hand, and I don't know how to palm read, but I grabbed her hand and all of the sudden saw her making out with a woman on a couch in a basement. So I blurted this out, half-pissed you know, and everyone thought I was joking except for the girl. Her face turned red, her eyes welled up and she lept out of her seat and ran to the bathroom. I ran after her and apologized and she said, "No, that's not it. How did you know I made out with my roommate? You don't even know me? I am only 19 and just realized that I"m gay but haven't told anyone yet." So I felt horrible and took the time to really get to know her and we became friends.

 

Sometimes it's like an on/off switch and half the time i don't know if it's a prediction or something else. Sorry to blather on. I don't really talk about it in my life offline. People do comment when they meet me that I seem really tuned in. But I definitely do not identify with those hack psychics who charge people money and scam them with fake cold readings.

Edited June 19, 2012 by writergal

[M30USA]

All I know is a freaking angel visited Abraham and ate bread with him.

 

Ate bread?

 

An angel?

 

Enough said.

[pureinheart]

I am undecided as to how ancient monuments were built. The reason I don't necessarily jump to the extraterrestrial on THIS subject is because I've seen some pretty mind-blowing things about how simple tools can do seemingly impossible things. For example, I saw a 60 year old man rotate an entire barnhouse by himself. LOL. How? He put a rotating axis in the center with a long wooden rod coming out under one side. Then he gently balanced the barn on the axis, and proceeded the rotate the entire barn alone--as a 60 year old man!

 

What impresses me more than the actual architecture and building of these monuments are things such as the way they are aligned to constellations. For example, on of the openings of the Great Pyramid is lined up to the Draco constellation (the Serpent). There are also writings of anceint civilizations who somehow knew of planets and star systems that we didn't know existed until the 1800s! You want to tell me they just discovered them on their own? I believe in this regard they were given information by angelic visitors. I believe that, while humans themselves might have built these monuments, they did so with the assistance of information given to them from an external source. (And by the way, the same is possibly still happening today, albeit in secret. This is one possible explanation for Area 51.)

 

This I totally get. When having to get very heavy boxes, that were much bigger than me, off of shelves that were close to one story high, balancing the boxes in such a way allowing them to slide down me (and balancing myself on the ladder in different ways) then the ladder. I'm thinking it's about angles, balancing and causing gravity to be your friend:) does this sound right? It's on a much smaller scale of course, but I see how it's possible.

 

Your second paragraph makes complete sense, and thank you because while I appreciate the ideas of those who narrate and host those various programs, I just didn't agree with a lot of their findings...I really like the spirit of that one guy who has dark hair that kind of goes everywhere and appears to be in his 30's...man what a nice person he must be IRL. I tried so hard to understand all of that stuff but got stuck when I was unable to discern what was spirit was in operation in reality. The Mayan Calender is so fascinating also.

Edited June 19, 2012 by pureinheart

[TaraMaiden]

 

I also since I was about 19 or 20 years old had this annoying wart on my right middle finger. When I was nervous and agitated I alway had a bad habit of picking on it until it bled, and of course it always came back. I had bought this beautiful wooden crucifix, and one day when I was picking on it, I randomly touched the crucifix (not with the intent of being healed). The bleeding stopped and the wart went away, no scar no nothing.

when I was your age, my hands were absolutely covered in warts - I mean, I had 2 - 3 on every finger.

suddenly, at around your age again, they all began to disappear.

why?

because warts are closely linked to hormonal levels in the blood and a lot of teenagers experience warts, only to have them disappear when adolescence tails off...

Experts concur that these growths, caused by a fungus, are also highly contagious, and are far more common in people in the teenage band than at any other age....

 

However, here I am at a perimenopausal stage, and i have mysteriously grown a couple of warts on the lower palms of my hands...

Here we go again.

 

so while i can see how you might link your 'wart experience' to having inadvertently brushed a cross with your finger - i spent all my formative years as a devout, Roman Catholic convent student and it didn't do nuthin' for me....

 

as for the remainder, I wish you well....

[quickjoe]

I suggest to you that it's happening everywhere, but for some reason only those who have spiritual discernment can see it.

Then what's the point of evidence at all if all your claims can hide behind this kind of unfalsifiable offal?

I'm talking about hard evidence research from people like journalist Leslie Kean, Dr. John Mack of Harvard, Dr. David Jacobs of Temple University, and Dr. Allen Hynek.

Instead of just dropping names, what is some of this "hard evidence"? Do they have peer reviewed papers we can examine?

2) Consider the possibility that the elusive, hidden nature of angels and UFOs doesn't mean they don't exist, but rather that they might have a REASON for remaining hidden. At least admit the possibility.

I have no problems admitting the possibility, but it comes back to it being pointless speculation that isn't backed up by what we know. That's all we can do, go on what information we have. When you start speculating beyond or in spite of our current pool of knowledge, you are entitled to that opinion but nobody is under any obligation to take it seriously.

[Engadget]

I'm not religious at all, but I do believe there is something beyond this "plane of existence" if you will.

 

Maybe it's just human arrogance, but I think there's more to us than a physical body. Our energy goes somewhere when we die perhaps, maybe an alternate universe? I don't know.

[Lobouspo]

when I was your age, my hands were absolutely covered in warts - I mean, I had 2 - 3 on every finger.

suddenly, at around your age again, they all began to disappear.

why?

because warts are closely linked to hormonal levels in the blood and a lot of teenagers experience warts, only to have them disappear when adolescence tails off...

Experts concur that these growths, caused by a fungus, are also highly contagious, and are far more common in people in the teenage band than at any other age....

 

However, here I am at a perimenopausal stage, and i have mysteriously grown a couple of warts on the lower palms of my hands...

Here we go again.

 

so while i can see how you might link your 'wart experience' to having inadvertently brushed a cross with your finger - i spent all my formative years as a devout, Roman Catholic convent student and it

do nuthin' for me....

 

as for the remainder, I wish you well....

 

Thanks, I appreciate your well wishes :-). Here's the thing, I had that wart for about 14 or 15 years, and I had nasty habit of picking on that dam thing and it would always come back. Now in my mid 30's i rub it against a crucifex and it literally disappears. I cant explain it, I didnt do with the intent of healing it either. BTW, while I am Catholic, I dont put my faith in the church, because it is made up of imperfect people who fall short and sin just like myself. I do put my faith in Christ though, big difference.

[Lobouspo]

Sorry about the grammatical errors, I am using my phone..

[OpenBook]

I've heard from... somewhere, a Christian leader I think (Billy Graham?) that angels aren't human, they never were, and they won't be in the future. That surprised me. I've always thought that would be a great personal goal to reach for.

 

And then there's the movies about how angels (Nick Cage :love:) fell in love with humans and fell to earth AS humans.

 

I don't know what to believe.

[M30USA]

I've heard from... somewhere, a Christian leader I think (Billy Graham?) that angels aren't human, they never were, and they won't be in the future. That surprised me. I've always thought that would be a great personal goal to reach for.

 

And then there's the movies about how angels (Nick Cage :love:) fell in love with humans and fell to earth AS humans.

 

I don't know what to believe.

 

Angels are not human. They are direct creations of God who are not biological (at least not in the same way we are), do not reproduce (at least not in the same way we do), and are spirit beings. There is biblical support for them being able to take the following forms: as flames of fire, as identical to an ordinary human, and star-like in appearance. Furthermore, the Biblical SEEMS to indicate that fallen angels MAY NOT have the ability to physically manifest AT THE CURRENT TIME. They formerly did before the Flood when they committed heinous acts in God's eyes (warranting the Floord), but multiple verses in the Old and New Testament support the idea that they are NOW "chained in darkness" in what is referred to as the "abyss". Pairing this with the fact that demons in the New Testament desparately seem to find a body to host because they lack a body of their own, we can conclude that only holy angels are able to appear with bodies currently. This is perhaps a mercy of God's to prevent another pre-Flood world. By limiting fallen angels to mere spirits without bodies, it perhaps reduces their chaos. It's also interesting to note that EVERY case of a flying vehicle in the Bible referred to as a "chariot" (ie, UFO) is of the Lord and not of Satan. We see the term "chariots of the Lord" or "fiery chariot" or "the horsemen of Israel" who FLY in these chariots all throughout the Bible. I was shocked to find out through research that there is NO case of a Satanic "chariot". Is this because God has made them "chained in darkness"--to be released, as it says, before the day of judgement? I believe so.

Edited June 20, 2012 by M30USA