Any Hope for reconciliation

[Domino63]

My wife has decided to divorce me after 24 years of marriage and 26 together. We have had Codependency (emotional abuse) in our relationship since the beginning along with parent/child issues (me 6yrs older). I am to blame for much of the problems but both of our families were plagued with Codependency. I was sort of the white knight that road in scooped her up from her stressful home right out of high school. The first few years were great but the first stumbling block occurred in 93 and then again in 97. Seen a counselor about 12 visits and chalked it up to lots of communications issues which truely still occur today. I always thought she could ride my "coattails" and I could bring her up to speed emotionally/mentally (wrong). She has alway came to me for answers (still does today) on what to do about a lot of different topics and I would give her answers and work with her "a lot like a child). Typically no big issues would arise but recently she started asking what to do about weight issues and parenting (I was way over my head when it came to helping with these subjects). I had no business taking these subjects on but not really thinking about it I just went ahead and answered like any other issues that she brought to me. Well she has always had a problem with following through on these subject so I (like a father) became a little more aggressive in my tactics/approach when she came back and said Im not able to continue. So I used negative communications, then removed communications then stopped affection, then intimacy trying to force her to follow through. Then sustained removal of the above. Boy I just spiralled out of control trying just about anything even a couple times saying cruel things to motivate her (obviously now realizing all very destructive relationship issues). This basically tore down trust, love care and just about every other important aspect of our 26 year relationship. We have 2 wonderful 13 & 7 yr old girls that I get along with extremely well and love me dearly. My issues have always been with my wife only, too high expectations, Codependency, Parent/child relations. Fast forward to today. In November she let me know that she thought I was emotionally abusing her, I said lets go see our family counselor even though she wanted to see a new christian counselor (what a big mistake I made, we should have went to see him). Our family counselor was unable to diagnose what was going on and my wife had already started checking out. Even though I took my own shotgun approach and started doing all the chores around the house that I could find. After a few weeks I said is this helping and she said no, it just made her feel guilty. I should have asked her earlier if there was anything she thought would help. She started asking the family counselor how she would know if she still even loved me. We tried several dates, nothing worked and I was at a loss in trying to win back her love. One day a couple weeks later when visiting her at her office she motioned for me to come in and closed the door. She said I have found an apartment, me and the girls are moving out. I was instantly in panic mode. I thought of the girls and said please don't do that, I will move out. She wanted 3 mths of trial separation, no contact. 2 wks into the separation she filed for divorce (mid March). Today I have sold or got rid of all toys in my life and am down to caring for our 2 girls and tried very hard but probably did everything wrong to win my wifes love back. We work so well and agree on almost all issues with our girls, each time we talk about us there was just misunderstanding after misunderstanding and she just said I'm through, too little too late (just a few days ago). She has always been a very passive person but somehow she has become empowered and is now very aggressive and in many cases down right mean. She has never been on her own but has just rented a house, we're in the middle of mediations for our divorce, she is still in our house for another 2 weeks with our girls but I'm staying with them this weekend (they stay at the house and my wife stays with family when its my turn). She still asks me to do things like figure her bills and monies for the rental house and she has asked me about maintaining the vehicle, what mower to buy and how to do different things. She seems to still want to rely on me for several things but she "just doesn't want to waste any more of her life with me". She has built up a impenatrable wall. I don't know how much longer it will be before we get a court date. Oh yea, I am in a 26 week behavioral class, have been seeing a counselor as well as the christian counselor that she originally picked. I have learned an awful lot about my and her codependence ways and all seem to agree that we both have hurt one another but feel with enough interest this relationship could be salvaged for us and our girls. She says she has been working on this problem for a year and just mentioned divorce to me a couple months ago. We have been through a lot together and I never heard the D word before.

 

Do I let her grow independently for 6mths - year and see if anything has changed with her feelings. I feel I have changed a lot, my extended family has noticed a big difference as well as both our girls. I've made such a big effort for our family but it seems the window of opportunity is gone.

[Texsec]

Sounds a lot like a MLC....I think for any chance you have to let her go...Let her go be on her own and make her own choices.....Also I would look for someone else in the background.....She may be leaning on someone else for the crutch to move out....That is what my WS did.

[standtall]

A third party is lurking.

[Domino63]

Forgive me, what is an MLC.

 

Also, she told me divorce was her decision not anyone elses, although she has been seeing a state abuse counselor for a year now every week.

 

I do know there are lots of people in her head ie: sister in-law, lawyer, counselor, parents, co-workers.

 

Thanks for the replies

[worldgonewrong]

MLC = mid-life crisis.

[xenomorph]

I agree with standtall and Texsec that there may be a third party involved.

 

It would be wise to see if you would be able to get on her personal computer or phone. (keyloggers will be helpful in breaking into her password protected emails and social network sites). Record audio (and video if you can) while she is home and you are away.

 

I would caution against confronting her about a possible affair until you collect enough evidence to support an accusation.

 

Go 180 for now.

 

My stbxh suddenly asked for a separation, then quickly wanted a full divorce. Nothing would change his mind and he acted very cruelly towards me.

Two months later to my utter shock and dismay, i discovered he had written about an affair, how unhappy he was with me, and how marvelous life back home will be. He had planned this for months without my knowledge.

 

There is no *sudden* exit without a third party involved, whether it be an influencial friend or affair partner. However, the exception are abusive relationships, and perhaps she had an epiphany that she no longer wants to be in a co dependent relationship and is getting help in taking steps towards that goal.

 

If you want to reconcile, try and rule out the affair first. Otherwise you will be talking to a brick wall.

[Domino63]

She got in a big argument with our 13yr(going on 18) daughter. She told my daughter that I just need to keep working on me and getting better, my daughter said, he has changed a lot, much more caring, compasionate, our daughter then said what about you mom, why aren't you working on you. She then started to ignore my daughter by talking to our second daughter 7yr old. The 13yr old said mom you always want me to tell you what I'm thinking and now that I'm telling you, you start to ignore me. She continued to tell her, you are making a very big mistake, you are tearing up this family when you should be working with dad more on fixing your problems not divorce. My wife then said something to the effect if your father continues to work on his problems then maybe there might be a chance for us in the future.

 

To me that just sounds like she is still very angry at me and wants to place blame, be done with this relationship and not look at anything she may have done other than let co dependency continue on too long. I can not get her to talk with me at all about our issues, she simply says there is no need, it doesn't make any since, since we are getting divorced. She is still pushing as hard/fast as she can to finish up the divorce process. She seems to care very much that our 13yr old daughter has no interest in moving out or living with her. Unfortunately I don't believe I can get sole custody of her since she and her 7yr old sibling is very close.

 

One more piece of information that is interesting to note, I seem to still be able to strongly upset her which leads me to believe that she still cares somewhere down deep. I truly don't believe there is anyone else involved, I just feel that she didn't know what else to do and strongly questioned if she was still in love with me. A couple/Three more weeks with the mediator and then however many weeks/months to get a court date, then it will be over. for a few months now, I have been going to the house every couple of weeks to stay with our girls, they really love seeing me, hugs, kisses etc. My wife and I have agreed on Shared/Joint custody 50/50 so I've started asking her to give me more time with the girls. This weekend we are up to 4 days eventually it will be 7. After 2 days she seems to start calling the 13yr old asking for updates.

 

I just don't see how a loved one of 26 yrs can just switch off feeling even if she has been working for a year on her own to resolve our issues.

[reboot]

I truly don't believe there is anyone else involved

 

The famous line repeated thousands of times by thousands of men on this forum.

[Domino63]

My wife has been seeing a womens shelter abuse counselor for almost a year. According to the psychiatrist at our local hospital, quite extreme. He indicated they lightly brainwash by empowering the women, teaching them to live on their own and leading them to believe their once trusted and loved husband is the enemy. Stay away from and do not believe anything he says.

[worldgonewrong]

My wife has been seeing a womens shelter abuse counselor for almost a year. According to the psychiatrist at our local hospital, quite extreme. He indicated they lightly brainwash by empowering the women, teaching them to live on their own and leading them to believe their once trusted and loved husband is the enemy. Stay away from and do not believe anything he says.

 

A similar thing happened with my wife, I believe.

 

All perspective gets chucked out of the window with these 'counselors' -- the woman who has an argument with her husband is every bit as abused, in their eyes, as the woman who gets slapped around. If the man doesn't shuddup and go with the flow on everything, he's labeled an Abuser, period, no wiggle room, no nothing. The man's accused of limiting the woman's potential, her dreams, etcetera, and meanwhile no consideration WHATSOEVER is given to the woman's culpability in how she's affected her husband. Hence, a lot of these women are given psychological blank checks to go f*ck around and not feel guilty about it. I hope there's a special level of Hell awaiting these 'counselors'.

[wow04]

I am throwing my 2 cents in on this one. Your marriage sounds a lot like mine was, but I was in the role of your wife. My ex husband was 10 years older than me. I didn't make it as long as your wife. I left after 6 years. I took my kids and filed for divorce.

 

There was nothing my ex could do to make me come back. I knew it was over. When I left him I had never been on my own, but I did it. I didn't ask him for anything though.

 

I don't think she has anyone else. I think she is trying to figure out who she really is. Is there a chance she might come back? It depends on if she really loves you.

[Domino63]

I wished there was some way to let her know that I would be happy to team with her and make everything peered. She has certainly gained my respect by being very capable. I just wonder if she is trying to protect herself from herself by simply not returning to this relationship for concerns of giving in and everything just going back to the way it was. I have been through so much pain there is no way on this earth I would let that happen if I had any say so about it. I know that I can still make her quit upset with me, which I've been told is an indicator that she still has feelings for me. I know from my daughter that I can still make her laugh hysterically. Just this morning we were discussing how this divorce is affecting our girls. The oldest (13yrs) does not want to speak with her and wants to live with me 100%. I told her I don't think I can do anything more than 50/50 because of the younger daughter (7yrs) and the courts don't like to see the siblings split up. I mentioned that I am very concerned about her comment, if the girls need therapy somewhere down the road then so-be-it. Our girls have never experienced us aggressively arguing at all until the last couple of months. Our 13yr old told me that she didn't realize until the last couple of months there was a problem when we started going into closet mtg's and both of us coming home from work (carpooling) upset. Now, each time we argue my wife contacts the abuse counselor for directions on what to say and do. I can see she is trying to be nice but the extreme anger they teach at the abuse counselors office just keeps glaring through. Sure never seen this type of anger from her in 26 yrs, wow how do they teach her that in just a few short months? I continue to be as nice and honest as I can. At this point I'm confident she is going to lose our oldest daughter (shutdown now and start coming back to the house to stay as soon as she can. My youngest daughter wants to live with me as much as she can but feels very sorry for her mother. I'm certainly not trying to pit the girls against their mother, this is just how they feel about this situation. I know that she has to go away to see if she would even be interested in coming back but I so wished that she could just see a professional couples counselor with me, we have only spoken with a family counselor about 3 times then she started putting up a wall and shutting down. I dearly love her and our girls and am willing to do whatever it takes. For some reason I have only had behavioral issues with my wife, not our daughters, relatives or friends. I am taking a behavioral class and working with a codependence counselor.

[worldgonewrong]

And the abuse counselor that she's seeing will come up with 1 zillion reasons to doubt even the more pure, loving, and honest of your intentions regardless. Expect more of the same, or worse, from your wife.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Ugh, I'm so sorry. I'm also in the middle of mediation. My wife also claims emotional abuse...I don't really think I was all that much worse than she was in reality. In fact she hit me twice! So I could claim physical as well as emotional, but I'm bigger and louder... And with us, yeah there was a third party, she did have an affair. With you, I'm not so sure. A lot of times when women leave there is another person, or someone they are thinking of at least...but I didn't hear any of the telltale signs from you other than her wanting out.

 

I think for both of us, we just need to start taking care of ourselves, just like your wife said (and mine). Gotta let go. I hate divorce =( I'm not helping her too much with setting up her new life. If she wants to be on her own, she can be on her own. I'm not her husband anymore. She still gets it easy though cause her parents are here taking care of everything for her =\ Eventually they'll be back out of state though. For me, if she has a change of heart, it'll probably won't be until a few months after the dust has settled. =( She's such a coward, I couldn't see her plucking the courage to try to start fixing things even if she wanted to at that point. Sorry for the hopeless tone... I think we just have to move on, if a miracle happens, a miracle happens. Don't expect it.

[M30USA]

Ugh, I'm so sorry. I'm also in the middle of mediation. My wife also claims emotional abuse...I don't really think I was all that much worse than she was in reality. In fact she hit me twice! So I could claim physical as well as emotional, but I'm bigger and louder... And with us, yeah there was a third party, she did have an affair. With you, I'm not so sure. A lot of times when women leave there is another person, or someone they are thinking of at least...but I didn't hear any of the telltale signs from you other than her wanting out.

 

I think for both of us, we just need to start taking care of ourselves, just like your wife said (and mine). Gotta let go. I hate divorce =( I'm not helping her too much with setting up her new life. If she wants to be on her own, she can be on her own. I'm not her husband anymore. She still gets it easy though cause her parents are here taking care of everything for her =\ Eventually they'll be back out of state though. For me, if she has a change of heart, it'll probably won't be until a few months after the dust has settled. =( She's such a coward, I couldn't see her plucking the courage to try to start fixing things even if she wanted to at that point. Sorry for the hopeless tone... I think we just have to move on, if a miracle happens, a miracle happens. Don't expect it.

 

Ninjas,

 

It's been 4 months since my wife was arrested for assaulting me and I still haven't received an apology. All I've heard is that she broke down and told her parents that she ruined her life. That's different than an apology.

 

Women aren't generally known for their accountability. I hate to say it, buddie, but women have dominated society and, even when they kick your ass, it's still your fault and it's your job to repair the marriage. That's how it is, dude. Sucks.

[pteromom]

I always thought she could ride my "coattails" and I could bring her up to speed emotionally/mentally (wrong).

 

I would give her answers and work with her "a lot like a child).

 

I (like a father) became a little more aggressive in my tactics/approach

 

So I used negative communications, then removed communications then stopped affection, then intimacy trying to force her to follow through. Then sustained removal of the above.

 

Boy I just spiralled out of control trying just about anything even a couple times saying cruel things to motivate her (obviously now realizing all very destructive relationship issues).

 

This basically tore down trust, love care and just about every other important aspect of our 26 year relationship.

 

You said it all in these few sentences. You were controlling (like a father), then emotionally abusive to her (don't play it off like the counselor is brainwashing her into believing it - you are admitting it yourself!)

 

Abused women just take it and take it and take it until they break and can't take it anymore. By the time they get to the breaking point, there is NO love left for the husband, and it is very difficult to get that back.

 

If you are truly changing, you have to show her that - through your ACTIONS. If she sees that you are ALWAYS kind, respectful, nice, and accepting of her choices, she will see you have actually changed, and maybe her feelings toward you will reawaken.

 

But maybe not.

 

I'm not saying your wife was blameless in the situation. It was her responsibility to stand up for herself and keep herself an EQUAL in the relationship, and she failed at that. It was her responsibility to communicate her needs and her issues, and she failed at that.

 

But I get where she's coming from. It takes a LOT of time and guts to get to the point where you actually LEAVE. And by the time you make that final leap, you feel there is nothing left to fight for. When you get to that point, it has taken so much energy and so many tears to get there, the last thing you want is to go backward...

[worldgonewrong]

Abused women just take it and take it and take it until they break and can't take it anymore. By the time they get to the breaking point, there is NO love left for the husband, and it is very difficult to get that back.

 

Conversely 'abused' men just take it and take it and take it until the day that they drop into their graves, 'cause they're expected to. They're expected to make sure there's still love left for their wife, regardless.

 

Sigh...too many ding-a-ling's went to see "Eat, Pray, Love", that's the problem with this current batch of divorces.

[Character Floss]

The one negative my coworker could point to in her marriage of thirteen years (together seventeen) was that he was controlling, paternalistic, etc.

 

I have another coworker who is the primary breadwinner in her house (two or three to one), by working several professional jobs (my firm and moonlighting). Yet she has to report in to her husband if she stops at Wal-Mart and takes thirty minutes instead of fifteen, or get his permission to go on a business trip, etc. A controlling bent...from H or W...will kill the love.

[pteromom]

Conversely 'abused' men just take it and take it and take it until the day that they drop into their graves, 'cause they're expected to. They're expected to make sure there's still love left for their wife, regardless.

 

Sigh...too many ding-a-ling's went to see "Eat, Pray, Love", that's the problem with this current batch of divorces.

 

 

I've never seen that movie (or read the book). I just know it because I'm living it.

 

And yes - abused men take it and take it too. But I don't believe ANYONE should take it just because they are "expected to". We each have but one life, and I don't believe in living it unhappy because of a promise we made.

 

That promise was real and true, but (in my case) was made without full knowledge of who I was making it to.

[soserious1]

OP, before I can give you any sort of opinion I need to hear more details about the " cruel" behaviors you admitted to in your first post. Sorry but hearing that your wife has been state sponsored counseling for those in abusive relationships compells me to seek more detailed info from you as to what abusive behaviors are involved in this situation, if you can elaborate it would be helpful.

[soserious1]

Conversely 'abused' men just take it and take it and take it until the day that they drop into their graves, 'cause they're expected to. They're expected to make sure there's still love left for their wife, regardless.

 

Sigh...too many ding-a-ling's went to see "Eat, Pray, Love", that's the problem with this current batch of divorces.

 

But we aren't talking about all of those other people. The subject at hand is being presented by a man who has openly admitted to "cruel" behaviors in his 1st post. If we are to be of any help to the OP it would be best if we stick to that & not risk the thread being locked by getting sidetracked.

[worldgonewrong]

pteromom- thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'm not ragging on you, btw.

I've just seen and read too much about certain women (not all!) who check out without making sure divorce is the very last, justifiable option. I am heart-sickened by our disposal culture that has bled over into how people treat relationships, 's all.

So if I bring something up, rest assured I'm not gunning for you.

I'm wrestling with my own bitterness/sadness.

[soserious1]

pteromom- thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'm not ragging on you, btw.

I've just seen and read too much about certain women (not all!) who check out without making sure divorce is the very last, justifiable option. I am heart-sickened by our disposal culture that has bled over into how people treat relationships, 's all.

So if I bring something up, rest assured I'm not gunning for you.

I'm wrestling with my own bitterness/sadness.

 

I don't seriously think the majority of people, men or women bail out of a 26 year relationship lightly. The OP states that he felt his wife " could, ride his coat tails & that he could bring her up to speed emotionally and mentally" I cannot imagine spending 26 years with someone who clearly felt me to be his inferior in literally every way that matters.

[worldgonewrong]

I don't seriously think the majority of people, men or women bail out of a 26 year relationship lightly. The OP states that he felt his wife " could, ride his coat tails & that he could bring her up to speed emotionally and mentally" I cannot imagine spending 26 years with someone who clearly felt me to be his inferior in literally every way that matters.

 

oh i'm totally with you.

 

i apologize too for my comments not being on-point with the thread, sorry. i've made it more confusing.

[pteromom]

pteromom- thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'm not ragging on you, btw.

I've just seen and read too much about certain women (not all!) who check out without making sure divorce is the very last, justifiable option. I am heart-sickened by our disposal culture that has bled over into how people treat relationships, 's all.

So if I bring something up, rest assured I'm not gunning for you.

I'm wrestling with my own bitterness/sadness.

 

Hey, we are all defensive about our own positions and we all see our own situations reflected in others' posts, so I get it.

 

In the case of this thread, OP admitted he took on a father role and was cruel to her. I can only imagine what his wife went through in wrestling with whether to leave, but since he admits his wrongdoings, I can't fault her for leaving.

 

I wouldn't want to be in a marriage like that either, and I can't help but applaud her for leaving.

 

I also am glad the OP admitted his wrongdoings and is working on fixing his own issues. Whether he ends up back with his wife or not, this will serve him well in the future.

 

In my case, I have struggled with leaving vs. staying for over two years. I've seen counselors (both independent and joint), I've communicated my needs to my husband over and over and over (mainly the need to be spoken to respectfully). I've read countless books, both on how to fix things and how to leave. I've tried changing my own behaviors to change the cycles in our marriage. It's definitely not something I have taken lightly, and I am to the point where I am pretty sure I am leaving - now it's just a matter of getting the strength to do it. I'm to the point where my only choices are to continue to live in a marriage that is very emotionally unstable and unpredictable, or to move on...