Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[PhillySpecial]

Actually I adore attractive women (and they adore me). Gold-digging (as you've admitted) ignorant people who can't form a cogent argument, like yourself isn't one of them.

 

Since you can't seem to form an argument and have to resort to namecalling, it's safe to assume you have either no argument skills or no argument. Do you need help deciding?

 

I don't need to argue or prove anything to you, I have a date tomorrow night, and the next night. My dance card stays full. Bet you can't say the same :lmao:

[Woggle]

A lot of women don't respect guys who treat them like "jewels." Men aren't stupid and they quickly learn to stop treating women like jewels after they have had a few women take advantage of them.

 

Yup. If a woman wants to be treated like a jewel she should act like one.

[Twenty-ten]

I do not hate all women, and you can't paint all women (or men) with such a broad brush. In my life, I've known asexual men and women who actually have a strong aversion to being paid for. They say it makes them feel less independent.

 

 

I didn't mean that you do hate women, I meant you might as well jump on that bandwagon if that is how you saw it.

 

I fully agree in the gay world it is more like that, I always suggest to men who complain about having to pay for women on a date to just go gay, since in that world it is expected to go dutch since two gay men are exactly the same in the romantic equation.

 

Yeah, I do understand guys better than women - since I am a guy. Just as I'd assume you'd know more about women. This isn't complicated.

 

Where you seem to have comprehension difficulties is with the English language, I didn't say that you couldn't understand men better, you might very well understand how men think better but women know how men ACT in a romantic scenario BETTER than what you will ever know. So when you tell me that I assume that men are this and that, I am telling you that I am not working on assumptions I am working on real life dating experiences, where the majority of men I have gone out with are more than willing to pay for the date. No questions asked.... other than "when can I see you again?":D

 

 

 

Why would a guy want to date a cheap hypocritical double standard woman? A smart guy wouldn't want a second date with that anyways - so why would/should he pay for you (and he has no idea if that you're willing to go dutch to avoid a second date).

 

When a person sees something of value to them they will go all out to make sure they get what they want, and making a good first impression is a surefire way of getting that.

[Woggle]

I don't need to argue or prove anything to you, I have a date tomorrow night, and the next night. My dance card stays full. Bet you can't say the same :lmao:

 

More power to you. If these men are willing to do it that is on them.

[PhillySpecial]

A lot of women don't respect guys who treat them like "jewels." Men aren't stupid and they quickly learn to stop treating women like jewels after they have had a few women take advantage of them.

 

I agree. A lot of bad apples have spoiled it for us real women who just expect to be treated like a lady, but in return know how to treat a real man like a king. That's the other side which others didn't let me express, I spoil the mess out of my man when he treats me well. But in the beginning it's his job to pay for the dates, then he is ultimately rewarded handsomely with a loving, open hearted, generous woman.

[homersheineken]

I don't need to argue or prove anything to you, I have a date tomorrow night, and the next night. My dance card stays full. Bet you can't say the same :lmao:

 

You really want to keep a scorecard? I'll take that anytime.

 

And I've got an argument and argumentative skills (that you don't have) to boot). Throw in the fact I have a great paying job - I'm looking pretty.

 

When you lose your looks (if you have any - care to prove?), where will you be sitting?

[Woggle]

Her dance card stays full because the world is overflowing with men who think with their dicks and not their brains. I've fallen prey to doing that in the past, but I've learned to watch myself.

 

But yes, as you said, it is on them. If it's what she wants, and what they wants, and they both know what's up, then fine. Free country.

 

By the way, I've had plenty of dates since my breakup - MOST OF WHICH I HAVE PAID FOR. But I haven't found anyone who has done it for me, partly because I'm still trying to heal and dating isn't a great idea for me right now. So sorry if I don't evaluate my self-worth based on how full my dance card is.

 

Most of the time men know what they are getting into with these women. If they want to drain their wallets in order to have a piece of arm candy acknowledge their presence then that is their fault.

[Woggle]

Men can go gay or we can find a woman who puts her money where mouth is when it comes to equality and independence. They do exist though I wish there were more of them.

[PhillySpecial]

You really want to keep a scorecard? I'll take that anytime.

 

And I've got an argument and argumentative skills (that you don't have) to boot). Throw in the fact I have a great paying job - I'm looking pretty.

 

When you lose your looks (if you have any - care to prove?), where will you be sitting?

 

Dude what is your problem, seriously. I mean I'm happy with myself, I'm happy with my life, I'm going to continue doing me. The men I date love the way I am, they wouldn't change a thing, that's all that matters. You don't matter, sorry. You're just some internet guy whose bitter because you don't like to pay for dates and no one will go out with you twice.

 

If you're so happy with yourself why are you so concerned with me? I'm just curious, you seem to have real hard on for me right now and I'm trying to understand why :lmao:.

[homersheineken]

Where you seem to have comprehension difficulties is with the English language, I didn't say that you couldn't understand men better, you might very well understand how men think better but women know how men ACT in a romantic scenario BETTER than what you will ever know. So when you tell me that I assume that men are this and that, I am telling you that I am not working on assumptions I am working on real life dating experiences, where the majority of men I have gone out with are more than willing to pay for the date. No questions asked.... other than "when can I see you again?":D

 

When a person sees something of value to them they will go all out to make sure they get what they want, and making a good first impression is a surefire way of getting that.

 

Actually yo'ure the one with the English comprehension difficulties. I proved it before by quoting your posts and I'll do it again. I never said anything about how men think, just that I understand them better.

 

Yeah, I do understand guys better than women

 

Your exp's in dating do not make fact, no matter how much you want them to be. I'm basing it on exp too and I can tell you that not all women think like you. You continue this pattern of false assumptions about the generalizations of women based on 1 women's (yours) exp. That's just not true.

[homersheineken]

Dude what is your problem, seriously. I mean I'm happy with myself, I'm happy with my life, I'm going to continue doing me. The men I date love the way I am, they wouldn't change a thing, that's all that matters. You don't matter, sorry. You're just some internet guy whose bitter because you don't like to pay for dates and no one will go out with you twice.

 

If you're so happy with yourself why are you so concerned with me? I'm just curious, you seem to have real hard on for me right now and I'm trying to understand why :lmao:.

 

Oh the irony. Goodness, you need a clue. If you're so happy with yourself, why are you concerned with me?

 

So you'll continue doing you? Is that when you can't get a man to buy you and do you?

 

Carolina does make a good and humbling point here...

[Twenty-ten]

 

By the way, I've had plenty of dates since my breakup - MOST OF WHICH I HAVE PAID FOR. But I haven't found anyone who has done it for me, partly because I'm still trying to heal and dating isn't a great idea for me right now. So sorry if I don't evaluate my self-worth based on how full my dance card is.

 

 

Ok see this is unfortunate, and I do understand where you are coming from and can now see your frustration around this topic. I would strongly recommend that if

 

a) you need to be out just for a change of scenery and that is what you hope to get out of dates these days, then to not take them to big productions on a first date. Couple drinks or somewhere that is not going to run you a huge tab is ideal.

 

b) you are not in the emotional state to be out dating then it's no wonder that your projection to those you take out will be that of someone who is closed off emotionally.

 

Out of curiosity if you are not really in the right frame of mind to be dating what exactly do you hope to get out of these dates?

[Twenty-ten]

Actually yo'ure the one with the English comprehension difficulties. I proved it before by quoting your posts and I'll do it again. I never said anything about how men think, just that I understand them better. Your exp's in dating do not make fact, no matter how much you want them to be. I'm basing it on exp too and I can tell you that not all women think like you. You continue this pattern of false assumptions about the generalizations of women based on 1 women's (yours) exp. That's just not true.

 

And as I already said you may understand or know how men think better but women are better at knowing how men will act on a date. Most men don't have issue with paying, they insist. It's my experience and most women I know share this experience. As well majority of women posting in this thread have also said the same thing. According to you that still counts for nothing in terms of what you "understand" about men.

 

So if most men in my experience have acted a certain way, what I would consider a real man (by real I mean the common behaviour) is what I have seen.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Twenty-ten

[PhillySpecial]

I may have called you names but at least I'm not making wild and untrue assumptions about people that you're basing on absolutely nothing. You're telling me why my ex dumped me as if you're a psychic or as if what you're saying is the word of God and you're doing the same thing to the other guy. What if he's telling the truth? Who knows?

 

News flash: I'm just some internet guy. So is he. And YOU are just some internet chick. Maybe you are an extremely attractive socialite who gets rich guys to pay for you. You could just as easily be a 350 pound woman with psoriasis living off of Oreos in a double-wide somewhere. I am at least giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

 

It's the internet. No point throwing around accusations.

 

Well I can say that because pretty much nothing anyone can say on the internet is going to bother me that much. I simply made a statement that was not directed toward anyone saying no cheap man gets within 20 feet of my pu$$y and you and Homer took it VERY PERSONALLY. I mean it's almost like I said directly to you guys that you're cheap and you ain't sh*t. I'm just wondering why my statement about how I date and chose to live my life would upset the both of you so much. Obviously your reaction is rooted in some past traumas you've both experienced in dating. I'm sorry if I brought up some negative memories for you guys but I'm honestly just expressing how most attractive women feel. We don't have to pay for dates, so why would we? Its like why would a successful rich man date an ugly chick, he wouldn't. Same difference. But I've clearly made you both very angry

[Twenty-ten]

carolinawanderer I understand what you are saying and I am truly sorry to hear about your story and to see that you are still hurting. Love stinks sometimes, you are definitely not alone.

 

Dating is for most, a mixture of what you just described, a need to move away from past hurt, and an openness to the possibility of new hopes and love. Somewhere down the line of recovery from past hurt there is a proverbial turning of the leaf, and you do leave most of the pain behind and enter into a phase of less pain and more openness of the heart. But you have to cross that line in order to truly be ready for something healthy again.

 

What you described is less about paying or not paying and more about being at a place where you can confidently see dating as a means to an end as opposed to a means to less hurt. Right now you are probably still in somewhat of a limbo state so finding that you are making all this effort to be with new women seems even more trying and tasking. Perhaps it's best to stay away and allow yourself some more healing time. I think your frustration stems more from there than any of the dating rituals that you are getting caught in that don't seem to work right now. Realistically do you even think you could fall in love again the way you feel right now?

[PhillySpecial]

I can't speak for him, but as for myself - indignant, yes. Angry? Not really. It's the internet.

 

I actually had these values long before I met my ex - I've only had one girl I was ever really serious with. There really was no "dating trauma" that made me believe in a certain value system. I usually tend to be concerned with fairness..maybe that's why I'm going into law? There have been points in my life where I've been concerned with it to a fault.

 

Being cheap is certainly a negative personality trait. I do not wish to express it and do not AT ALL blame women for not wanting to be with a guy who is truly cheap and cares more about a few nickels and dimes than his partner. It was your *definition* of cheap I took exception to. You came off as extremely abrasive, and I overreacted.

 

Carolina, I do appreciate you acknowledging that you overreacted. You called me a bitch . But yeah, is dating really fair on either side, I don't think so. I mean I'll be getting up in a couple of hours and going to the gym, why because I have to look perfect. Got forbid I gain 5 lbs! There's alot of pressure being a woman in the dating world, its not all roses on our side either. A thin woman with an overweight man, no problem. But the other way around is rare. I know I'm off topic... Point is as men and women we're held to different standards.

[Twenty-ten]

Got forbid I gain 5 lbs! There's alot of pressure being a woman in the dating world, its not all roses on our side either. A thin woman with an overweight man, no problem. But the other way around is rare. I know I'm off topic... Point is as men and women we're held to different standards.

 

 

SO true. The amount of times I walk down the street and see absolutely gorgeous tiny little things of women, with average chubby guys and wonder why in the world there are so many double standards out there...when it comes to what men get. I rarely see it the other way around. It just doesn't happen.

 

I've read here on this very board a million times already men don't really care about how well educated or financially successful a woman is, it's youth and good looks that sit at the top of the wish list. So then so what if women expect a little extra attention on the first few days. I know in my case soon enough he will be enjoying some of the nicest home made meals on a weekly basis, amongst other treats courtesy of moi. so what if I would like him to put a little effort in the early stages. I never feel guilty about what I expect at first because I know what I am worth to him down the line. And fair enough he doesn't know what he is in for at first, but guaranteed if I am not into the guy I am not wasting his time or his money on day one or any day beyond that. The date ends there, and I will insist on going dutch.

 

But I do appreciate not all women out there handle dates with integrity, so for that I do see where guys are coming from on the "who pays" debate. It's just that time and time again I hear stories much like the OPs where women allow men to be very laid back in this respect early on and they end up with loser lazy guys who just want to freeload, and what woman wants that? I don't.

[dating2u]

hello im newbie here.......

[Woggle]

These chubby guys could never get these women without making tons of money. Many women care only about what a man can do for her financially and that is what many are trying to protect ourselves from. I don't blame women who want to prevent becoming trophy wives so why blame men who want to avoid goldiggers. It's not that men are afraid of a woman with too much education and success but it is not really a deciding factor for us. Why is it that whenever men want to protect ourselves and act in our own interests we get a bunch of flack about how we are selfish and not real men?

 

Also if a woman looks good and has a horrible personality she is getting no play from me.Too many attractive women can get away with murder because a lot of men think with the wrong head.

[bananalaffytaffy]

Dunno, but this sounds a bit like you have sex to get fed. I only have sex when I want sex. When I'm hungry, I make a sammich or something.

Hmm... My post didn't mention a word about sex, so I think some assumptions are being made.

I'm married now anyway. I'm free to make love to my H whenever I want for whatever reason.

Perhaps I'm aging myself, but if the guy asks, the guy pays. Once there is exclusitity, who pays usually evens out. This isn't "buying someone" or paying for sex. Where I come from, if a gentleman asks a lady out, he pays for the date. My point was that there seem to be fewer and fewer gentlemen out there.

Edited April 16, 2010 by bananalaffytaffy

[SomewhatExperienced]

I've almost always payed for the first two dates. The first one is cheap (i.e. coffee) and IF there is a second one it is dinner. If we make it to the third date she should at least start offering to go dutch.

 

I'm also a university student so my conception of who should pay and who should, especially because I tend to date other students, may be different then the working population.

[janie423]

I have skimmed through the posts on this topic and what I come out of this with is that there are double standards in the dating world. It has been that way for a long time and I suspect it will continue that way.

 

Among the numerous inequities in life is the one about who should pay for the first date. And the standard is that the man pays for the first few dates, if he is lucky enough to get them. There are many ways in which women take a hit, so this is one area where the man has to "come up or shut up." When I hear men complaining about paying for the first date I recoil in disgust. These guys need to "man-up" and pay for the company of a female on the first few encounters at a minimum. Any woman who lowers her standards and allows a man to slide in this respect lowers the image of women in general. This is not golddigging or asking to be paid for sex, as some posts have implied. This is courtship ethics.

[bananalaffytaffy]

I have skimmed through the posts on this topic and what I come out of this with is that there are double standards in the dating world. It has been that way for a long time and I suspect it will continue that way.

 

Among the numerous inequities in life is the one about who should pay for the first date. And the standard is that the man pays for the first few dates, if he is lucky enough to get them. There are many ways in which women take a hit, so this is one area where the man has to "come up or shut up." When I hear men complaining about paying for the first date I recoil in disgust. These guys need to "man-up" and pay for the company of a female on the first few encounters at a minimum. Any woman who lowers her standards and allows a man to slide in this respect lowers the image of women in general. This is not golddigging or asking to be paid for sex, as some posts have implied. This is courtship ethics.

Well stated, Janie. Thank you.

 

There's obviously a huge difference between being old fashioned and expecting a gentleman to pay for the first date, and being a prostitute and "having sex to get fed".

[kdark]

Well stated, Janie. Thank you.

 

There's obviously a huge difference between being old fashioned and expecting a gentleman to pay for the first date, and being a prostitute and "having sex to get fed".

 

As soon as I hear a girl say she is old fashioned, I run for the hills.

 

Old fashioned is just an excuse to take advantage of a time when women couldn't make a living on there own, and apply it to dating now, when the playing field has evened.

 

Luckily for you girls there are tons of old fashioned men out there to fight over you.

 

But not me. I value thoughtful, compassionate, and emancipated women. Not women who are taking advantage of an archaic double standard.

 

And why is it that so many women think that if the man is good and pays for so and so many dates, her way of reward is to sleep with him? I can go down to a bar and get laid tonight. Sadly I am working right now otherwise I would doing that... But the way I look at it is that woman is lucky that I chose to pursue her, not that I was lucky that she's letting me pursue her.

 

Beautiful women are very, very common. It's beautiful, compassionate, thoughtful, and intelligent women that are rare.

[ADF]

I don't understand--are you each paying your own way, or are you paying for both of you?

 

In either case, this man knows perfectly well it is customary for a man to pay in the beginning of a relationship. That's kind of the point, in fact. By paying, the man is making a gesture of sacrifice to prove he is serious about wanting your company. I have to think his refusal to pay is some kind of power game. Either that, or he is beyond clueless.