Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[Sanman]

In these discussions, I do (at least in my own head) make a distinction between men who ask out any woman that breathes, OLD, and men who actually like a woman before asking her out.

 

If you are going to take out dozens of women in a year, then I am not going to feel too bad about the "date" line in your budget. If it's OLD, I believe the date should either be free, limited to a cup of coffee, or split. But if you actually like the woman, it doesn't hurt to make an investment in your first date.

 

After all, many of the things we do are investments in our potential futures with no guarantees -- whether that investment is buying a suit for job interviews, paying for a college education, or treating the woman you could end up marrying to an inexpensive dinner.

 

Depends what you mean by like. If the woman is in your group of friends, a co-worker, or someone you know well that is different from most OLD, bar/party meets, etc. that are usually strangers. I have met women online that became friends first. As I mentioned above my current gf and I talked for 3 mths before meeting. However, for most people in their 20s, such a thing is largely unheard of. You meet someone, chat briefly, and date or hangout.

[Els]

However, for most people in their 20s, such a thing is largely unheard of. You meet someone, chat briefly, and date or hangout.

 

This is not always the case. Probably depends on locale/culture, but lots of people, even in their 20s, get to know someone before dating them like you did with your gf.

 

If someone is doing the multi-dating, 3 new dates a week thing, then of course it would make absolute sense for them to go dutch. I would simply go dutch, if it were me. But most people I know don't do that. I've only had early dates with 5 guys in my life (and had 3 LTRs - in fact, for the remaining two, I absolutely insisted on paying half because I hadn't even realized they'd thought of it as a date and wasn't interested in them), so the early-dating bit is nearly nonexistent for me. Had I been a guy in my position, paying for those would have been utterly inconsequential. Seriously, a video game costs more.

[Sanman]

This is not always the case. Probably depends on locale/culture, but lots of people, even in their 20s, get to know someone before dating them like you did with your gf.

 

If someone is doing the multi-dating, 3 new dates a week thing, then of course it would make absolute sense for them to go dutch. I would simply go dutch, if it were me. But most people I know don't do that. I've only had early dates with 5 guys in my life (and had 3 LTRs - in fact, for the remaining two, I absolutely insisted on paying half because I hadn't even realized they'd thought of it as a date and wasn't interested in them), so the early-dating bit is nearly nonexistent for me. Had I been a guy in my position, paying for those would have been utterly inconsequential. Seriously, a video game costs more.

 

It depends, most people I know have dated significantly more than that. However, the thing to realize here is that many times the guy will have to do the asking and risk the rejection. So, most people would not end up with 3 ltrs from asking out 5 people. The average guy may get 3 ltrs from 10,20,30 or who knows how many people. Out of curiosity, how many people has your bf dated? I have had about the same number of ltrs, 4 actually, but dated significantly more women.

 

Besides, I have met plenty of women who do the multi-dating, 3 new people a week thing and still expect to be paid for. In my younger and more naive days, I even did so.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Sanman

[Els]

It depends, most people I know have dated significantly more than that. However, the thing to realize here is that many times the guy will have to do the asking and risk the rejection. So, most people would not end up with 3 ltrs from asking out 5 people. The average guy may get 3 ltrs from 10,20,30 or who knows how many people. Out of curiosity, how many people has your bf dated? I have had about the same number of ltrs, 4 actually, but dated significantly more women.

 

Well, rejections don't typically cost anything . And if it's a date, it involves two people, no? Rejections don't really count as first dates and don't involve any sort of activity together, so there isn't any reason for there to be a discrepancy in the number of first dates men or women have in general.

 

The bf has dated one other person, or at most 2 - was never sure if that extra 1 led to an actual date or not and never asked. Had a couple of rejections though. He doesn't make his intentions clear until very late in the interaction, when he's positively smitten and can hold back no longer. It's a pretty different process.

 

Most of my close friends, even males, dated anywhere from 0-10 people. Dating in US metropolitan areas might be different, but I don't think 'not dating around' is nearly as nonexistent as you think. For one thing, I think multi- or even chain-dating is extremely uncommon in many other parts of the world.

[Sanman]

Well, rejections don't typically cost anything . And if it's a date, it involves two people, no? Rejections don't really count as first dates and don't involve any sort of activity together, so there isn't any reason for there to be a discrepancy in the number of first dates men or women have in general.

 

The bf has dated one other person, or at most 2 - was never sure if that extra 1 led to an actual date or not and never asked. Had a couple of rejections though. He doesn't make his intentions clear until very late in the interaction, when he's positively smitten and can hold back no longer. It's a pretty different process.

 

Most of my close friends, even males, dated anywhere from 0-10 people. Dating in US metropolitan areas might be different, but I don't think 'not dating around' is nearly as nonexistent as you think. For one thing, I think multi- or even chain-dating is extremely uncommon in many other parts of the world.

 

I mean rejections as in the 1-2 date rejection/disappearing act. If I counted the women I had been rejected by outright prior to a date as well, we might run out of numbers . Well, having pretty much only lived in metro areas, I have no idea what dating would be like outside of said areas. With fewer people, I assume the numbers are cut down severely on both sides. In some areas of the world, there is not even dating. However, I am mostly concerned with my experience in larger U.S. metro areas.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Sanman

[Els]

I mean rejections as in the 1-2 date rejection/disappearing act. If I counted the women I had been rejected by outright prior to a date as well, we might run out of numbers . Well, having pretty much only lived in metro areas, I have no idea what dating would be like outside of said areas. With fewer people, I assume the numbers are cut down severely on both sides. In some areas of the world, there is not even dating. However, I am mostly concerned with westernized dating and my experience in larger U.S. metro areas.

 

Nod, I guess it just bugs me slightly when people insist on generalizations based on their locale. I mean, there's a whole country/continent/world out there, and I figured it'd be interesting/enlightening to know that things people think are the norm in a particular locale really don't apply to many others. And LS is supposed to be an international forum after all.

 

In the places I've lived in, which included both Caucasian and Asian ones, I have not found most of the generalizations made in LS to be true. In fact, the multi-dating one is one that I've found to be especially specific - even some Americans whom I talk to outside of LS say they don't do that.

[Sanman]

Nod, I guess it just bugs me slightly when people insist on generalizations based on their locale. I mean, there's a whole country/continent/world out there, and I figured it'd be interesting/enlightening to know that things people think are the norm in a particular locale really don't apply to many others. And LS is supposed to be an international forum after all.

 

In the places I've lived in, which included both Caucasian and Asian ones, I have not found most of the generalizations made in LS to be true. In fact, the multi-dating one is one that I've found to be especially specific - even some Americans whom I talk to outside of LS say they don't do that.

 

 

That isn't to say that I do not want to hear about different experiences. I'm always curious to learn more. However, It really does not help my friends or I (if I were single) any as it is unlikely any of us are moving to another country or even a more rural part of the U.S. anytime soon.

[musemaj11]

Im just tired of all this.

 

You women are just effing cheap.

 

Yeah go ahead compete for my job and keep your money to yourself while Im always paying while we are out.

 

Its hard to have genuine interest in people who are more interested in whether I pay for their $20 expense or not.

 

Selfish cheapskates.

 

I say ban all women from the workplace.

[johan]

I love them. Women are great. Dating them is fun. Well worth the expense. I like working with them as well. They are smart and they work hard and they deserve to be there.

 

Women love me, too. They like how I treat them. They like my sense of humor. They try to be around me. They set me up with their single friends.

[Feelsgoodman]

It seems to me that many members of LoveShack have trouble discerning the difference between a person liking, wanting or even requiring something in a relationship with them feeling ENTITLED to it.

There is no difference between the highlighted parts. How can you require something and not feel entitled to it? Female logic...

[Feelsgoodman]

Of course I have.

 

I just don't think that "alpha status" is determined by whether a man will or will not ever pay for dates.

 

I suspect that an alpha person sets their own rules, and would be just as likely to reject a "rule" prohibiting him or her to pay for a date if they felt like it as a rule that shames them if they won't.

You know how celebrities never have to pay when they go out? If you are an A-list celeb, pretty much any establishment in the world would bend over backwards to have you as their patron. So why pay, when you can go anywhere you want for free?

 

Alpha males have the same effect on women...their looks/charm/charisma make women throw themselves at them. No payment required. So I guess an alpha male could spend money on women if he really wanted to...but why would he want to? Feeling empowered through playing provider is a typical beta male quality. Betas know that their wallets are the most appealing part of what they have to offer to women, so they cling to chivalry and try to convince the world that buying a woman's affection makes you a real man.

[zengirl]

That isn't to say that I do not want to hear about different experiences. I'm always curious to learn more. However, It really does not help my friends or I (if I were single) any as it is unlikely any of us are moving to another country or even a more rural part of the U.S. anytime soon.

 

I don't think it's impossible that people in large cities date the way Elswyth says. Many of my friends, especially my male friends (and the successful ones!), only date people they know already or meet through their social circle. NYC may be different - never lived there. But I wouldn't assume every city meets your experiences. I live in a very large city, but perhaps cities are different in different parts of the country. I have certainly dated people I knew before, as well as people I didn't know. I would say some people here date the way you say (though even then - I've dated people from OKC and such but always wrote them for quite awhile first, I would say it's only true 'cold calls' that came from someone I neither knew nor had any social circles in common, and that was rare - generally if I didn't know someone at all but went out with them, they were recommended by a friend), but some date the way Elswyth says and everything in between. All of that seems possible in NYC to me as well, but it'd depend on your social circle. I'm certain there are people there who've primarily dated people they already knew too.

[Sanman]

I don't think it's impossible that people in large cities date the way Elswyth says. Many of my friends, especially my male friends (and the successful ones!), only date people they know already or meet through their social circle. NYC may be different - never lived there. But I wouldn't assume every city meets your experiences. I live in a very large city, but perhaps cities are different in different parts of the country. I have certainly dated people I knew before, as well as people I didn't know. I would say some people here date the way you say (though even then - I've dated people from OKC and such but always wrote them for quite awhile first, I would say it's only true 'cold calls' that came from someone I neither knew nor had any social circles in common, and that was rare - generally if I didn't know someone at all but went out with them, they were recommended by a friend), but some date the way Elswyth says and everything in between. All of that seems possible in NYC to me as well, but it'd depend on your social circle. I'm certain there are people there who've primarily dated people they already knew too.

 

I'm not doubting that there are people that date mostly through social circles, but the numbers that Elswyth is talking about seem rare in any of the cities of college campuses that I have lived in. I know many people that date via social circles as one method, but I have met very few men (maybe a few more women) that limit all their dating to that. The other factor is how you count dates/relationships. I have a female friend that says she only had 3 ltrs in her life. However, I know of at least a dozen other people that she has slept with and hung out with on a somewhat ongoing basis. Now, they might have been just friends/fwb to her, but had something developed these were all dating possibilities she does not count. However, it is rare for anyone in any city I have met to say that they have only been romantically/sexually linked with 5 people in their life and had 3 ltrs out of that. Not to say that it does not happen, but there seems to be too much competition for that to work out.

[Mme. Chaucer]

There is no difference between the highlighted parts. How can you require something and not feel entitled to it? Female logic...

 

Easily.

 

If I felt I required a deep mental, physical and emotional connection to get into a relationship with a man, which was the case … that was what I required. If I did not meet a man who fulfilled that for me - I was going to remain single.

 

My choice.

 

I DID NOT feel "entitled" to finding someone who brought those things. I did not feel "entitled" to have a relationship at all. I consider that a gift and a privilege.

 

I also require money to live, but I am not "entitled" to money. I have to earn it, or steal it, or whatever - get it some how. But I'm not entitled to money.

[fortyninethousand322]

If you want to pay, pay. If you don't, don't. If she turns out to be a real creep and just uses you for a free meal you can complain on here. That's perfectly reasonable. It's like buying a car and having it turn out to be a lemon. You made the choice to buy the car, but you're free to complain about it.

[DuchessKaye]

I've got a new feeling about paying for dates!

 

While dating-- If the date is my idea, I'll pay, if his, I'll expect him to pay.

 

If we're already a steady couple -- Go dutch! Take turns. I'll cover 1,2,3, and he'll cover 4,5,6...

 

If we are already married-- I'll be willing to pay for everything.

[d'Arthez]

If we are already married-- I'll be willing to pay for everything.

Expect marriage proposals to come your way just about ... now!:laugh:

[Sanman]

I've got a new feeling about paying for dates!

 

While dating-- If the date is my idea, I'll pay, if his, I'll expect him to pay.

 

If we're already a steady couple -- Go dutch! Take turns. I'll cover 1,2,3, and he'll cover 4,5,6...

 

If we are already married-- I'll be willing to pay for everything.

 

If you are married, will you be paying everything out of the joint account?

[DuchessKaye]

If you are married, will you be paying everything out of the joint account?

 

No...

 

I'm serious. I'm paying for everything. My husband can keep his money

[d'Arthez]

No...

 

I'm serious. I'm paying for everything. My husband can keep his money

As alluring as the prospect of retirement is at 32, I think I will have to give it a miss. Sorry Kaye, nothing personal.

[Sanman]

No...

 

I'm serious. I'm paying for everything. My husband can keep his money

 

So, what kind of engagement ring were you looking for again?

[Art_Critic]

If we are already married-- I'll be willing to pay for everything.

 

What kind of man would allow that to happen if you both have good incomes ?

 

I certainly wouldn't let my marriage go down that path..

While my wife is a SAHM she contributes 5 fold in raising our child and doing the household chores during the day and times when I'm at work.

She also does some contract work during some nights that helps her feel she is doing her part..

[d'Arthez]

What kind of man would allow that to happen if you both have good incomes ?

As always such things ought to be decided by the people in the relationship themselves. They need to find something that works for them. One of the reasons your wife can be a SAHM is because you don't exactly bring in pocket change, and you obviously appreciate what she is doing.

 

It would really depend on what you want to get out of life Art. If you aspire to a relatively simple life, setting aside a few million dollars in some tax haven, would mean that you can live comfortably of the interest. You probably would be able to "afford" doing the kind of work you want to do, which is not necessarily the work that would make you the biggest paycheck.

[Feelsgoodman]

If you want to pay, pay. If you don't, don't. If she turns out to be a real creep and just uses you for a free meal you can complain on here. That's perfectly reasonable. It's like buying a car and having it turn out to be a lemon. You made the choice to buy the car, but you're free to complain about it.

If you buy a car and it turns out to be a lemon, you can sue the manufacturer and get your money back under lemon law. Unfortunately, you can't sue a woman for turning out to be a "lemon"...too bad

[Art_Critic]

As always such things ought to be decided by the people in the relationship themselves.

 

 

Of course.. from my experience though: Is that a large part of my self esteem and identity come from who I am at work and who I have become thru my job.

For me to give all that up would be a very monumental task.. likely impossible and I think many men and women are the same...

My wife didn't want to quit her job, but we felt it would be better than putting the little guy in a full day care.

She doesn't sit back and let me pay for everything just like I couldn't just sit back and let her pay for everything.. there is a balance that is struck that makes us both feel good about what we are contributing to the relationship.