Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[Sanman]

If you buy a car and it turns out to be a lemon, you can sue the manufacturer and get your money back under lemon law. Unfortunately, you can't sue a woman for turning out to be a "lemon"...too bad

 

 

Only if it is a new vehicle. Used and private sale vehicles do not pertain to lemon law, IIRC.

[Bek404]

I think it depends entirely on the situation - like, if someone I known for awhile asked me on a date and we went somewhere mid-priced where our two meals and a drink each came to about $50 then I'd be happy to let the guy pay. If we went for a drink afterwards I would buy the first round.

 

But if it was a blind date and we went somewhere super expensive, I wouldn't feel comfortable letting someone I'd only just met pay for my meal. If he insisted on paying, I'd probably order the cheapest thing on the menu regardless of how hungry I was.

 

I found an infographic online http://www.onlinedatingwebsite.com.au/images/surviving-first-dates1_04.jpg, I don't know how reputable it is cause it doesn't quote its source but it says that if a woman insists on paying it means that she may not intend on meeting again, and I guess I can understand how a guy could get that impression, so I would probably offer to pay but never try to push the issue too hard. That can also lead to awkwardness..

[mtber75]

I think the OP date is just a cheapskate. The fact that he's Jewish and your not meant that he didn't take the dates seriously to begin with. Its that whole religious thing!

[Titanwolf]

The woman pays for her share >_> that includes condiments.

[musemaj11]

Paying for dates is like a big grey area, much like love and dating itself. Sometimes you stagger through and find that even though you might feel independent for paying for all or part of the bill,

Paying for someone should not be about feeling of independence. It should be out of care for that person.

 

A woman who is paying because she is holding feminist views, is like a man who is paying because he wants to increase his chance to have sex with the woman later on. Both are paying out of selfish reasons.

 

When people first start dating of course its all going out and stuff. Once you are in a relationship you don't go on dates very often and usually stay in. So how is it unfair when the guy pays for the dates in the beginning, and for the rest of the relationship the woman does more cooking?

 

It evens out. If you pay for dates, then eventually you will go over for dinner. And if you live together, then she will end up making more food than you go on dates. So in the long run, she is doing much more.

And who will be paying for the groceries?

 

Ever wonder why women go all mushy when a guy buys them flowers? It's not the spending part, it's the treating them to something nice part. Men still don't get it, and that's why they are all single and complaining on an online forum.

I guess women should give men blowjob on the first date then since men find it something nice.

 

After all, many of the things we do are investments in our potential futures with no guarantees -- whether that investment is buying a suit for job interviews, paying for a college education, or treating the woman you could end up marrying to an inexpensive dinner.

Marrying a woman who judges you by whether you pay for her or not on a date isnt a very good judgment in my opinion.

 

Had I been a guy in my position, paying for those would have been utterly inconsequential. Seriously, a video game costs more.

Firstly, video games are expensive. Thats why guys dont buy them like once a week.

 

Secondly, its not about money. These days women have as much money as men so we dont feel good if the money spending is one-sided as if the interest isnt mutual.

 

It seems women's brains are too deficient to comprehend that men want to feel treated, too.

 

Alpha males have the same effect on women...their looks/charm/charisma make women throw themselves at them. No payment required. So I guess an alpha male could spend money on women if he really wanted to...but why would he want to? Feeling empowered through playing provider is a typical beta male quality. Betas know that their wallets are the most appealing part of what they have to offer to women, so they cling to chivalry and try to convince the world that buying a woman's affection makes you a real man.

It seems to me women want you to pay if they dont feel that you are physically attractive enough so you need to make up for it with money.

 

If we are already married-- I'll be willing to pay for everything.

You are so young and naive.

 

I notice though that women are more generous when they are younger. But the older they get, they become cheaper.

[Feelsgoodman]

Let's make your fantasy a little less Hollywood and a little more real life:

 

Hmmm...now let me think for a minute. Would I rather go out with the ugly/average looking but generous guy who recently booked a Dinner/Murder Mystery Theater date for our 3rd date, went approximately 100 miles out of his way to pick me up because my sense of direction SUCKS, got us a suite with a jacuzzi and fireplace at this resort because we were too far from home to drive back that night, AND had arranged beforehand with housekeeping to have rose petals scattered all over the canopy bed when we arrived at our room - or some really hot guy who can't be bothered to pay for my $16.99 Fisherman's Platter at Red Lobster?

Many women wouldn't think twice about friend-zoning guy #1 (and use him for free food/entertainment) while spreading their legs for guy #2.

 

 

I think the truly financially successful guys (and the guy mentioned above is very much one of them) simply can't be bothered concerning themselves with 'who pays' when they're out on a date.

It's a way of weeding out the gold-diggers.

[denise_xo]

LMAO...52+ pages of men writing dissertations to convince everyone that women are cheap and since they're 'equal,' they should pay for dates.

 

I'm willing to bet all of these same guys, if put into a living together commitment with a woman, would conveniently forget the 'equality' argument they keep using and expect the woman to work fulltime AND do 90% of the household chores as well.

 

I prefer sharing both. I don't understand why men are expected to pay for dates. And I certainly will not ever get into a relationship with a man who thinks I should do the house work because I'm a woman.

[maybealone]

Marrying a woman who judges you by whether you pay for her or not on a date isnt a very good judgment in my opinion.

 

Since you judge women based on whether or not they pay on a date, does that mean that no woman would be using good judgment if she married you?

[Art_Critic]

It's a way of weeding out the gold-diggers.

 

A 20 dollar meal is gold digging...haha

 

Do you even know what a gold digger is ?

 

While you are worried about making sure to not pay for her meal you are in reality making sure you stay alone and not in a relationship...

 

When I was single I had always paid for the evening out on dates and never felt taken advantage of.

I have also paid for her baby sitter if she had to get one.. it isn't fair that I asked a woman out and she had to pay a baby sitter 50-60 bucks for an evening out.

[Algermas]

LMAO...52+ pages of men writing dissertations to convince everyone that women are cheap and since they're 'equal,' they should pay for dates.

 

I'm willing to bet all of these same guys, if put into a living together commitment with a woman, would conveniently forget the 'equality' argument they keep using and expect the woman to work fulltime AND do 90% of the household chores as well.

 

Typical.

 

Hmmm...now let me think for a minute. Would I rather go out with the very handsome, generous and successful guy who recently booked a Dinner/Murder Mystery Theater date for our 3rd date, went approximately 100 miles out of his way to pick me up because my sense of direction SUCKS, got us a suite with a jacuzzi and fireplace at this resort because we were too far from home to drive back that night, AND had arranged beforehand with housekeeping to have rose petals scattered all over the canopy bed when we arrived at our room - or some guy whose whining about treating me to the $16.99 Fisherman's Platter at Red Lobster?

 

Golly, that's a tough one.

 

I think the truly financially successful guys (and the guy mentioned above is very much one of them) simply can't be bothered concerning themselves with 'who pays' when they're out on a date.

 

That's because rich men can afford an expensive escort service.

[musemaj11]

I'm willing to bet all of these same guys, if put into a living together commitment with a woman, would conveniently forget the 'equality' argument they keep using and expect the woman to work fulltime AND do 90% of the household chores as well.

Okay lets bet then.

 

How old are you? Like 85? Then I could understand it must be very hard for you to comprehend that times have changed and the newer generation of men are very different than the men from your 1930s generation.

 

If you ever go visit a laundromat, these days you will see plenty of men there, too doing laundry for the whole family.

 

Since you judge women based on whether or not they pay on a date, does that mean that no woman would be using good judgment if she married you?

I said its not a good judgment to marry a woman who judge you by whether you pay for her on a date or not.

 

I dont expect a woman to pay for me. I just need her to take the initiative to chip in whenever the opportunity arises to show that she is willing to invest in me as much as Im willing to invest in her. Its not about money.

[Sanman]

 

Hmmm...now let me think for a minute. Would I rather go out with the very handsome, generous and successful guy who recently booked a Dinner/Murder Mystery Theater date for our 3rd date, went approximately 100 miles out of his way to pick me up because my sense of direction SUCKS, got us a suite with a jacuzzi and fireplace at this resort because we were too far from home to drive back that night, AND had arranged beforehand with housekeeping to have rose petals scattered all over the canopy bed when we arrived at our room - or some guy whose whining about treating me to the $16.99 Fisherman's Platter at Red Lobster?

 

Golly, that's a tough one.

 

I think the truly financially successful guys (and the guy mentioned above is very much one of them) simply can't be bothered concerning themselves with 'who pays' when they're out on a date.

 

All you have proved here is that you like rich men. In other news, many men like young and skinny women. So, I guess if you can stay young, attractive, and skinny, you can leave your wallet at home. However, when you get old and gain weight, don't be surprised if that financially successful guy is not concerned about picking up the check for a younger, skinnier girl.

[Kaniut]

Paying for someone should not be about feeling of independence. It should be out of care for that person.

 

A woman who is paying because she is holding feminist views, is like a man who is paying because he wants to increase his chance to have sex with the woman later on. Both are paying out of selfish reasons.

 

Whoa! I think you are completely misunderstanding what I said. Maybe I should clarify: it is not that I ONLY paid for all or part of the bill in order to feel independent. At the time, I did care for that person and that was why I did not mind paying for all or part of the bill. It is simply that I felt a sense of independence because I was financially able to do so, much in the same way I felt independent because I could buy things for myself and others. The two were not dependent on one another. Also, no offense but I really don't know that I should be taking advice about paying for someone because I care from someone who says "Its hard to have genuine interest in people who are more interested in whether I pay for their $20 expense or not." Shouldn't you be taking your own advice and paying because you truly care?

 

Also, I did not pay because I had feminist views . . . the two were not dependent on one another. I paid because I wanted to do so. Finally, how would it be selfish of a woman to pay because she is a feminist? Explain this to me.

 

Being a good man is not about always paying for dates, it's about treating the woman he is with with dignity and respect. If he chooses to give the woman flowers, buy her things, etc. that is (and should always be) up to him. Conversely, being a good woman (feminist or not) is about treating the man that she is with with dignity and respect. If she chooses to give the man flowers, or shower him with gifts, that should be up to her. Ideally, it should not have anything to do with who picks up the tab. It's about finding a way to show the person that you care, whether you spend any or no money.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Kaniut

[Drseussgrrl]

In my experience when a man asked me out on a date but expected to split the bill he wasn't all that interested in getting to know me, and they were the ones who never planned out dates, either.

 

The guys who DID pay were most often genuinely interested and made no bones about picking up the tab for a date THEY asked me out on. I, of course, would always coyly reach for my wallet and offer to split, out of politeness.

 

It has nothing to do with feminism, entitlement, gold-digging, or any of those things you cheapskates want to attach to it. It's a dating ritual, pure and simple.

 

Let's talk about all the time and money we women have to spend getting ready for said date. Then we can talk about fair.

[Drseussgrrl]

Oh and for the record - you need to learn the definition of gold-digging. We're talking about a DATE. Not paying her bills, buying her a car, or affording her a lifestyle she otherwise wouldn't have. Jesus.

[Sanman]

Let's talk about all the time and money we women have to spend getting ready for said date. Then we can talk about fair.

 

Oh, I show up to my dates wearing a tailored suit (usually hugo boss as armani is a bit narrow shouldered) and a pair of Gucci loafers. Of course you need sunglasses now too, shall we go with Burberry aviator lenses? Trust me, I look good. However, before I go out I need at least 45 minute massage to relax myself and put me in the mood for a fun night out after a long day at work. Lets not forget teeth whitening, eyebrow waxing (can't have a uni-brow) and a manicure (no polish, just a cut and nail buff) All that is for my date. I guess women should pick up the tab for me. I mean they get to see my 6' tall, broad-shouldered frame in a tailored suit with pearly white teeth, groomed eyebrows and perfect nails.

 

C'mon, let's not pretend like women are not interested in physical attraction as well. Everybody has to look good on a date.

[Drseussgrrl]

Are you gay?

[zengirl]

Oh, I show up to my dates wearing a tailored suit (usually hugo boss as armani is a bit narrow shouldered) and a pair of Gucci loafers. Of course you need sunglasses now too, shall we go with Burberry aviator lenses? Trust me, I look good. However, before I go out I need at least 45 minute massage to relax myself and put me in the mood for a fun night out after a long day at work. Lets not forget teeth whitening, eyebrow waxing (can't have a uni-brow) and a manicure (no polish, just a cut and nail buff) All that is for my date. I guess women should pick up the tab for me. I mean they get to see my 6' tall, broad-shouldered frame in a tailored suit with pearly white teeth, groomed eyebrows and perfect nails.

 

C'mon, let's not pretend like women are not interested in physical attraction as well. Everybody has to look good on a date.

 

That's quite metrosexual. Of course, women are interested in physical attraction, but really I don't know many men who spend that much on clothes or go through ANY of what you just listed. Yet the women in my social circle, including myself, do typically put some degree of time and energy into our looks, as expected, much more so than is for men. Let's not pretend that expectations are roughly equal there or that what you just described is how a typical man gets ready for a date either.

 

I'm not saying, "I did my hair/whatevs, so he should pay" makes any sense, mind you. It wouldn't be an argument I'd put forth. I'm just saying that expectations are hardly roughly equal in the looks-maintenance department for men and women. The amount of time and money the average woman spends on all that, to attract men, is definitely greater than the average man. Men are spending and doing more these days, especially in some circles, but that's hardly become equal either. Socialization for men and women still remains different and impacts that areas as well as the pay-for-dates area.

 

I'm curious, due to your comments in the other thread with V, what you think of my general philosophy --- the partner with more money/greater disposable income typically pays more (I'm not suggesting a mandate, just saying it makes sense and seems odd and rather stingy to me to have a partner with a lower income pay an equal amount, especially while one is buying expensive suits!)? Keep in mind, that could be a person of either gender, and of course, it'd be hard to apply it to early dates.

[Sanman]

That's quite metrosexual. Of course, women are interested in physical attraction, but really I don't know many men who spend that much on clothes or go through ANY of what you just listed. Yet the women in my social circle, including myself, do typically put some degree of time and energy into our looks, as expected, much more so than is for men. Let's not pretend that expectations are roughly equal there or that what you just described is how a typical man gets ready for a date either.

 

I'm curious, due to your comments in the other thread with V, what you think of my general philosophy --- the partner with more money/greater disposable income typically pays more (I'm not suggesting a mandate, just saying it makes sense and seems odd and rather stingy to me to have a partner with a lower income pay an equal amount, especially while one is buying expensive suits!)? Keep in mind, that could be a person of either gender, and of course, it'd be hard to apply it to early dates.

 

It depends where that typical man is located. I can show you plenty of straight men in Manahattan who have such rituals and many women in Manhattan love the metro male look.

 

If the whole, whoever makes more pays more works for you, then run with it. It can get complicated though. Are we excluding bills? Student loan payments? Tax percentages (small business owner/contractor vs employee)? How about retirement contributions? How are we arriving at our

 

I think that you can do a percentage based split like that. Personally, I do a fairly equal (50/50) split with my gf and she makes more than double what I do as I am currently on fellowship. However, she also has more overhead and school loans (private vs public for me). If one of us is short that week, the other tries to cover it or we stay home and enjoy ourselves. We both try not to put the other in a tough position. If she is doing something for me (say a wedding for a friend of mine), then I foot the whole bill and vice versa.

[zengirl]

I'll be honest in saying the NYC dating scene would not be for me. People who spend that much money on themselves hold no allure for me.

 

If the whole, whoever makes more pays more works for you, then run with it. It can get complicated though. Are we excluding bills? Student loan payments? Tax percentages (small business owner/contractor vs employee)? How about retirement contributions? How are we arriving at our

 

Anecdotal and on the honor system, without amounts, generally. It's easier to see if someone has a lot, a little, or no disposable income pretty quickly IME.

 

Hubby and I have a version of that, which is more official I suppose, with the way our prenup (expires later) was drawn up. Personal bills are paid first -- cars, student loans, prior debt, etc (I don't have any, so that's all him) -- and then a certain % goes into the joint account, with that amount increasing each year into the marriage and ending with all money and assets co-mingled after 10 years.

 

But all of that would be annoying in dating. It's always flowed pretty naturally for me -- whoever just got paid or had the most money at the time OR if I made significantly more overall OR if a guy made significantly more overall determines who foots the bill. I've never really done dutch. I'd prefer to pay for everything than have to have separate checks! That'd feel very disconnected to me. But the "you get, I get" is fine. I've only gone dutch when I didn't want to see the guy again. ETA: I think I wouldn't mind it on a very first date or something, per se, if the guy was otherwise fine BUT if he always wanted to go dutch, and had no flexibility on different ways to do that, he wouldn't be for me. That seems like a social signal of "we're not together" and I'm not comfortable with that.

Edited June 27, 2012 by zengirl

[Els]

Interesting. Are there really men who don't work in modelling or related industries (where they need to show their face/body to the world), who get eyebrow waxes and manicures?

[Sanman]

Interesting. Are there really men who don't work in modelling or related industries (where they need to show their face/body to the world), who get eyebrow waxes and manicures?

 

I hope I don't get yelled at by the mods for this:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/31/nyregion/31monobrow.html

[Sanman]

 

But all of that would be annoying in dating. It's always flowed pretty naturally for me -- whoever just got paid or had the most money at the time OR if I made significantly more overall OR if a guy made significantly more overall determines who foots the bill. I've never really done dutch. I'd prefer to pay for everything than have to have separate checks! That'd feel very disconnected to me. But the "you get, I get" is fine. I've only gone dutch when I didn't want to see the guy again. ETA: I think I wouldn't mind it on a very first date or something, per se, if the guy was otherwise fine BUT if he always wanted to go dutch, and had no flexibility on different ways to do that, he wouldn't be for me. That seems like a social signal of "we're not together" and I'm not comfortable with that.

 

NYC can get rough for anyone, at times, I think. I often refer to it as my longest-standing abusive relationship. The price I pay to be close to friends and family.

 

I think splitting is the best way to go on initial (say dates 1-3) dates as there will be no hard feelings if you change your mind later. Though, I'm fine with 'I pay, you pay' after initial dates as that is what usually happens now for me anyway. I spent the weekend away with my gf recently, she covered the hotel room and I paid for food, entertainment, etc. that weekend. It pretty much evened out, though we don't keep a strict tab.

[Drseussgrrl]

Sorry but if you're asking ME out, you can pay on the first date.

[Feelsgoodman]

Sorry but if you're asking ME out, you can pay on the first date.

Make sure you mention that to your date upfront.