musemaj11 Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I think what you don't like is American dating culture. Women come with all kinds of shapes, sizes, morals, values, and ideals. Most people are brought up into a custom and socialized to accept it. I can agree that American dating culture in its current incarnation is a bit broken. What really annoys me is when people tell me to accept a custom simply because we have been socialized to do so or because that is simply how they are accustomed to being treated. There was a time in the history of this country where having slaves was considered a normal and customary thing. It does not mean that it is right. In the same way, I have yet to see a cogent argument presented as to why I should pay to take out a virtual stranger. Give me a good argument and I will change my mind. I think Americans are too obsessed with rules. The man has to ask out. The man has to plan. The man has to pay. The woman has to open her wallet and pretend to offer. The man has to reject the woman's fake offer. The woman must wait for the man to plan a second date. I mean WTF? Why cant we be natural and love in whichever way our heart desires rather than following some hollywood step by step dating procedure? Link to post Share on other sites
WHOLESALEPACK Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I think Americans are too obsessed with rules. The man has to ask out. The man has to plan. The man has to pay. The woman has to open her wallet and pretend to offer. The man has to reject the woman's fake offer. The woman must wait for the man to plan a second date. I mean WTF? Why cant we be natural and love in whichever way our heart desires rather than following some hollywood step by step dating procedure?Not only just American women but I see Americanized women (esp those that were raised in the US at a very eary age) acting the same too. What was amazing is I was really asked out twice in my life by different women and I yet still had to pay. Link to post Share on other sites
mesmerized Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 I think Americans are too obsessed with rules. The man has to ask out. The man has to plan. The man has to pay. The woman has to open her wallet and pretend to offer. The man has to reject the woman's fake offer. The woman must wait for the man to plan a second date. I mean WTF? Why cant we be natural and love in whichever way our heart desires rather than following some hollywood step by step dating procedure? You must not have traveled so much. In most other countries, rules like this are followed even stronger. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
samsungxoxo Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 You must not have traveled so much. In most other countries, rules like this are followed even stronger.This.... OP I can guarantee you're gonna have it worse here. If the woman is younger, the man has make an effort to impress her parents (esp. the father). And with that ''I'm asking her out but she still has to pay'' attitude, he ain't getting anywhere closer to her family. And this isn't coming from an American but Peruvian. As a matter of fact, over here if the man picks up a woman at her apartment, he has to drop her off in the same spot (her apartment). IMO the OP has it easier in America so don't get why he is complaining. Come here and I can tell you it's gonna be your nightmare. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Algermas Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 You must not have traveled so much. In most other countries, rules like this are followed even stronger. Thing is, in the rest of the world you're rewarded for your effort. In North America and parts of Europe men are expected to be "real men" or "gentlemen" Except they're not allowed to expect to get a lady in return. I kid you not I've met women who were first ****ed over a decade ago who now wanted a man to court her. I almost choked on my drink when I heard that one for the first time. Link to post Share on other sites
john7474 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I recently ended a relationship of 18months. One of the things we had a disagreement about was paying for dates. In my relationship, I always paid for all dates the entire time. Personally, I never had an issue with it at all because I wanted to care care of my girl and make her happy. This is where I had a problem with the situation. She was a big believer and enforcer of Gender Roles, hence the man should always pay for dates. This was a became an issue for me because now I felt it was my Job or place to pay for dates and no appreciation for this act was shown. When i discussed it with her, she attempted to make me feel rediculous because she never said THANK YOU, or any type of appreciation like, " I had a great evening, thanks for taking me out". This is when it became a serious issue and I began to feel like a was being taken advantage of. Any guys out there ever dealt with this before? Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You must not have traveled so much. In most other countries, rules like this are followed even stronger. I have been to at least one country in every continent other than the Arctic and Africa and my experiences had been that elsewhere in the world gender specific norms exist when it comes to dating. But they are not rigid law-like rules as practiced in the US. Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Double post Link to post Share on other sites
Sanman Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 This was a became an issue for me because now I felt it was my Job or place to pay for dates and no appreciation for this act was shown. When i discussed it with her, she attempted to make me feel rediculous because she never said THANK YOU, or any type of appreciation like, " I had a great evening, thanks for taking me out". This is when it became a serious issue and I began to feel like a was being taken advantage of. Any guys out there ever dealt with this before? Have you been dating my ex-gf? Link to post Share on other sites
mesmerized Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 This.... OP I can guarantee you're gonna have it worse here. If the woman is younger, the man has make an effort to impress her parents (esp. the father). And with that ''I'm asking her out but she still has to pay'' attitude, he ain't getting anywhere closer to her family. And this isn't coming from an American but Peruvian. As a matter of fact, over here if the man picks up a woman at her apartment, he has to drop her off in the same spot (her apartment). IMO the OP has it easier in America so don't get why he is complaining. Come here and I can tell you it's gonna be your nightmare. I've talked to women from many countries. Golddigging is just as big in most other countries if not worse. There are even studies about this. Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) I've talked to women from many countries. Golddigging is just as big in most other countries if not worse. There are even studies about this. Except in other countries women DONT have equal employment opportunities. Even then from PERSONAL EXPERIENCES (not just hearsays) despite the financial disadvantage, I often found them always voluntarily trying to contribute monetarily during dates when they are into the guys. Compare that to American women. Not even worth comparing indeed ... Edited July 8, 2012 by musemaj11 Link to post Share on other sites
john7474 Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Have you been dating my ex-gf? Possibly, but that is one of many reasons why she is my ex. Lol Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Except in other countries women DONT have equal employment opportunities. Even then from PERSONAL EXPERIENCES (not just hearsays) despite the financial disadvantage, I often found them always voluntarily trying to contribute monetarily during dates when they are into the guys. Compare that to American women. Not even worth comparing indeed ... On most of my dates, the woman offers to pay her share. First dates, in particular. Link to post Share on other sites
Algermas Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 On most of my dates, the woman offers to pay her share. First dates, in particular. That's all part of their game. If you take her up on it you're almost guaranteed to never see her again. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 On most of my dates, the woman offers to pay her share. First dates, in particular. The woman pretending to offer and expecting the man to reject the offer is part of American dating ritual. Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The woman pretending to offer and expecting the man to reject the offer is part of American dating ritual. True. No one is ever honest or sincere. The guys are just suck-ups and the women are parasites. I see your point. Everyone is bad and stupid. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Ruby Slippers Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I hope I'm not jumping into a fire by asking this... ...but I'm dating someone new and have been wondering about this topic a bit. He has paid for everything we've done while out together. He hasn't even let me pay for small things like an iced coffee yet. I offered on the 2nd and 3rd dates to pay. The first time he just waved it away. The second time I told him I don't expect him to pay for all our dates and offered to pay, and he just smiled, said, "Don't worry about that," and paid. We're continuing to date, and I'm wondering if I should keep offering, just grab the bill and insist at some point, or just let him pay? Link to post Share on other sites
Nicomis Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I hope I'm not jumping into a fire by asking this... ...but I'm dating someone new and have been wondering about this topic a bit. He has paid for everything we've done while out together. He hasn't even let me pay for small things like an iced coffee yet. I offered on the 2nd and 3rd dates to pay. The first time he just waved it away. The second time I told him I don't expect him to pay for all our dates and offered to pay, and he just smiled, said, "Don't worry about that," and paid. We're continuing to date, and I'm wondering if I should keep offering, just grab the bill and insist at some point, or just let him pay? I don't know where your from, but where I come from men will likely insist on paying out loud. But if you were to just grab the check in secret, I promise you he would appreciate it, and it would bump up your stock in his eyes quite a bit. I know I would be pleasantly surprised if that happened. I won't hold my breath though. We don't usually mind doing it, but a truly awesome woman won't just expect it. Some women will offer to pay as an empty gesture. If the man lets her pay, she never talks to him again. He likely thinks your testing him. Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 It's amusing that so many women expect the guy to pay, and "won't be going again" if he doesn't, but some of those same women are dead set against prostitution. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Im have no doubt that fat old men dont mind paying their way for women's time and attention. After all how else are they gonna get those from them? Definitely not by relying on their spilling guts and balding head. Link to post Share on other sites
Mme. Chaucer Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 ^^^^ I haven't looked at this thread for quite a while. It's heartening to know that no matter how long it struggles along, there will always be this miserly refrain. From somebody who doesn't date. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Nicomis Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Im have no doubt that fat old men dont mind paying their way for women's time and attention. After all how else are they gonna get those from them? Definitely not by relying on their spilling guts and balding head. Well, this formerly fat, not that old, guy doesn't mind paying for a dinner date. HOWEVER, I DO mind being expected to. There is a difference. I don't mind acting like a traditional gentlemen, but I do despise a woman that feels like she is entitled to that treatment based on having a vagina, yet makes no effort to act like a lady, or show any gratitude or courtesy. There is a difference. In the instances where I would be paying for a meal or an outing, this would only be with a woman, I was seriously interested in. Cheap sex can be had for the minimum just by going to a club, and buying a drink or two, and first dates from O.L.D. are never more than coffee, due to the tendency of those women to stretch the truth a bit about their appearance. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Women from other countries expect a man to play his traditional role but at least they are willing to play their role. Tradition goes both ways while in some cases here it is seems that tradition is a one way street. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
aRealMan Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 If money for your meals is such a big deal, I suggest some of you women get a better job. There's no logical reason why someone else should be responsible for your food. Put your big girl panties on and grow up. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I can actually understand why women want chivalry but inspire that chivalrous instinct in men instead of demanding it and giving little to nothing in return. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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