Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[Snakechammah]

I was reading on another forum, and a guy brought up a decent point. Women hold out f/r sex, and say that if the guy can't go without it, then that's all he wanted.

 

Now, what if men did the same with their wallets? This way, both parties, would play the hold out game until they are sure about one another.

 

Something tells me there is a double-standard should the guy decide to hold out, though.

 

Fred, there is a huge difference here.

 

Sex is a personal thing. It is a woman's BODY. It is part of her. Part of who she is, it is her temple. When you have sex, there are risks - STDs, intimacy, every emotion in the world comes out. It is her very being.

 

What is money? Just external validation. It's just paper. A card. A collection of material stuff. It is NOTHING compared to a woman's body. Money can be earned anytime anywhere. Anyone with half a brain can make money. Work. Do something. It's just money. Something man created. No big deal.

 

See the difference. In a classy girl's mind: "Your money has nothing on my body. You can keep your cash if you think so highly of it."

 

If a woman holds out sex, it is her right - it is HER BODY. If a man holds out cash, it just means he has his priorities wrong. If money is so important to him, at the expense of his date, then he shouldn't bother to date at all.

 

Sorry, but if a girl wants money, she can earn it for herself.

And if a man wants sex, he can go f*ck himself.

[brahmabull117]

And if a man wants sex, he can go f*ck himself.

 

 

If you know how to do it right, f*cking yourself feels absolutely amazing

[MrCastle]

Fred, there is a huge difference here.

 

Sex is a personal thing. It is a woman's BODY. It is part of her. Part of who she is, it is her temple. When you have sex, there are risks - STDs, intimacy, every emotion in the world comes out. It is her very being.

 

What is money? Just external validation. It's just paper. A card. A collection of material stuff. It is NOTHING compared to a woman's body. Money can be earned anytime anywhere. Anyone with half a brain can make money. Work. Do something. It's just money. Something man created. No big deal.

 

See the difference. In a classy girl's mind: "Your money has nothing on my body. You can keep your cash if you think so highly of it."

 

If a woman holds out sex, it is her right - it is HER BODY. If a man holds out cash, it just means he has his priorities wrong. If money is so important to him, at the expense of his date, then he shouldn't bother to date at all.

 

Sorry, but if a girl wants money, she can earn it for herself.

And if a man wants sex, he can go f*ck himself.

 

You could have trimmed this down to two short sentences.

 

Women withholding sex, acceptable. Men withholding cash, unacceptable.

[fishtaco]

Yeah, I want to know too. Women say by holding out on sex, it gets them a better man. So what should a man hold out that will get them a better woman?

[darkmoon]

i am a woman who does not like dates - a date for what? dressing in uncomfortable clothes? the pressure of having to make great witty conversation? the hiding the fear of being hurt? it's all unreal, i can get dates but prefer standard friendship

Edited July 15, 2012 by darkmoon

[Negative Nancy]

It's not possible. Guys are so desperate to get laid that if you choose to "hold out", there will be a line of guys willing to do whatever it takes to get in her pants

 

That is true, but that clearly isn't women's fault.

 

Still, I think "holding out with the wallet" is a funny and good idea.

[Radu]

It is called sarcasm. The second bolded part I meant though, do I find is kind and considerate when the guy does pay? OF COURSE. Does that mean I expect it and get my panties in a wad when he doesn't? Hell no. Please read my posts in a majority of threads and you will see what my real POV is.

 

7% of information is transmitted by the words you say

93% is a mix of body language and tonality [mostly the former]

So complex messages don't get transmitted well through text.

 

Then again with time on forums ppl do end up getting a certain feel for how a person is like.

You have 92 posts at the time of my writing this, do you think that most of the ppl who frequent this forum's many subforums have made their impression of you well enough for it to register as sarcasm ?

 

OP, holding out with the wallet on dates while it may look like a good ideea, in fact it isn't. Some girls prefer to cherrypick their feminism ideals to their heart's content [leading to even feminzai] while some have a strong inclination to independence/traditionalism.

It's better to just go on cheap dates, live frugally and let them hang themselves with the rope you give them [tried it myself].

 

Let them have their cakes, icecreams, movie tickets, and from time to time restaurant.

If it gets to a relationship with one that cares about you, she will go 50:50 ... and if it doesn't get to that, you didn't lose much.

 

Now, holding out sex for 'relationship' might be an interesting way to play.

 

PS: jaclynrae, among internet forums Cali has a reputation when it comes to the women there, though depending on the place. I hear SF is fierce competition between girls for men [maybe you should lower standards].

Are you from SF ?

[Pyro]

Yeah, I want to know too. Women say by holding out on sex, it gets them a better man. So what should a man hold out that will get them a better woman?

 

Treating her to a fancy date.

 

Go dutch or inexpensive until then.

[musemaj11]

How do you expect to learn anything if you say that anything a woman says that proves your beliefs wrong to be fake/a lie?

 

Believe or not women do exist who pay or chip in. Its not an impossible feat.

I didnt say such women do not exist.

 

I simply implied that such women probably only make 5% of the whole female population.

 

Fred, there is a huge difference here.

 

Sex is a personal thing. It is a woman's BODY. It is part of her. Part of who she is, it is her temple. When you have sex, there are risks - STDs, intimacy, every emotion in the world comes out. It is her very being.

 

What is money? Just external validation. It's just paper. A card. A collection of material stuff. It is NOTHING compared to a woman's body. Money can be earned anytime anywhere. Anyone with half a brain can make money. Work. Do something. It's just money. Something man created. No big deal.

 

See the difference. In a classy girl's mind: "Your money has nothing on my body. You can keep your cash if you think so highly of it."

 

If a woman holds out sex, it is her right - it is HER BODY. If a man holds out cash, it just means he has his priorities wrong. If money is so important to him, at the expense of his date, then he shouldn't bother to date at all.

 

Sorry, but if a girl wants money, she can earn it for herself.

And if a man wants sex, he can go f*ck himself.

A bunch of bullcrap repeatedly used by women.

 

Unless you are a trust fund baby, we earn money by exchanging our BODY, TIME, and ENERGY. Everyday Im basically selling my body for 9 hours in exchange for money.

 

On the other hand, having sex only takes most of the times 20 or 30 minutes of your time. Certainly overrated.

 

You are downplaying the value of money because YOU ARE NOT THE ONE PAYING.

 

I say ban women from jobs other than menial jobs.

 

When a man has money, chances are his money will also go to at least one woman and a child.

 

But when a woman has money, chances are most if not all her money is spent on herself only.

 

Giving jobs to men mean less concentration of wealth in a society.

Edited July 15, 2012 by musemaj11

[FredRobbins]

Fred, there is a huge difference here.

 

Sex is a personal thing. It is a woman's BODY. It is part of her. Part of who she is, it is her temple. When you have sex, there are risks - STDs, intimacy, every emotion in the world comes out. It is her very being.

 

What is money? Just external validation. It's just paper. A card. A collection of material stuff. It is NOTHING compared to a woman's body. Money can be earned anytime anywhere. Anyone with half a brain can make money. Work. Do something. It's just money. Something man created. No big deal.

 

See the difference. In a classy girl's mind: "Your money has nothing on my body. You can keep your cash if you think so highly of it."

 

 

***MODS: PLEASE REVERSE THIS BACK TO ITS OWN THREAD. THIS IS NOT ABOUT DECIDING WHO SHOULD PAY FOR DATES. IT'S SIMPLY HOLDING OUT FOR SEX VS HOLDING AGAINST A GOLDDIGGER TO SEE WHERE HER INTENTIONS ARE. WAY TO RUIN A GOOD TOPIC

 

If a woman holds out sex, it is her right - it is HER BODY. If a man holds out cash, it just means he has his priorities wrong. If money is so important to him, at the expense of his date, then he shouldn't bother to date at all.

 

Sorry, but if a girl wants money, she can earn it for herself.

And if a man wants sex, he can go f*ck himself.

 

I like this. Typical women logic. I have the right to keep my "power", but I am also entitled to his as well, or else he is wrong.

 

You can say a girl's body is "special" all you want, but it's just another body in a sea of other bodies. A man's bank account is worth more than that girl's body (literally quite often). And money is a means of survival, so you can't really downplay it as just a piece of paper. Otherwise I could downplay a girl's body as nothing but a sexual dumpster.

 

If a girl is too broke too afford herself, then she shouldn't be dating until she gets a better job.If a girl needs to be financially stimulated to progress the relationship towards a sexual nature, she should just go stand on a corner, as she is nothing but a low-budget hooker, anyway.

Edited July 15, 2012 by FredRobbins
typo

[Sanman]

I like this. Typical women logic. I have the right to keep my "power", but I am also entitled to his as well, or else he is wrong.

 

You can say a girl's body is "special" all you want, but it's just another body in a sea of other bodies. A man's bank account is worth more than that girl's body (literally quite often). And money is a means of survival, so you can't really downplay it as just a piece of paper. Otherwise I could downplay a girl's body as nothing but a sexual dumpster.

 

If a girl is too broke too afford herself, then she shouldn't be dating until she gets a better job.If a girl needs to be financially stimulated to progress the relationship towards a sexual nature, she should just go stand on a corner, as she is nothing but a low-budget hooker, anyway.

 

The point I made in that thread that you guys are missing. Is that men also give a part of themselves and risk STDs when involved in sex. While women may tend to wait longer to engage in sex, there is no reason that a man's body and sexual intimacy should not be held to equal value. Sure, a woman can get pregnant, but a man is on the hook for that child as well if he is any sort of upstanding individual. Both men and women are involved equally in sex. That has little to do with paying on dates.

 

Women giving up sex = men giving up sex

Men paying for dates = should be women paying dating expenses as well.

[dbzeng]

I still haven't heard a good reason why a woman shouldn't chip in half?

 

We don't live in the 1950s, women have jobs, earn money, have careers, why shouldn't they pay their fair share?

[miss_jaclynrae]

I still haven't heard a good reason why a woman shouldn't chip in half?

 

We don't live in the 1950s, women have jobs, earn money, have careers, why shouldn't they pay their fair share?

 

... that is because no one has argued that they shouldn't...

[zengirl]

I still haven't heard a good reason why a woman shouldn't chip in half?

 

We don't live in the 1950s, women have jobs, earn money, have careers, why shouldn't they pay their fair share?

 

Well, I wouldn't necessarily suggest that 'half' is anyone's fair share, male or female, but that's an aside. At any rate, I don't think there's a problem with expecting women to chip in on dates, and I think most women DO chip in on dates to varying degrees or at least offer to do so. I certainly think one should always offer to do so.

 

I still haven't heard a good reason why women should turn down a guy she likes and plans to see again if he says he wants to pay for the entire bill. As I said to Ruby, if a guy is constantly doing so, it's nice to chip in sometime, though not at the expense of arguing about it. And I certainly get why she should decline the offer if she plans to ignore his calls or something. But generally when men pay, it's because they offer. Why is the woman wrong for accepting that offer?

[Ruby Slippers]

As I said to Ruby, if a guy is constantly doing so, it's nice to chip in sometime, though not at the expense of arguing about it.

And I did finally get to pay last time. He was at my house, and we ordered takeout. Once we were done and ready to pay, he said, "Let me get my debit card." And I said, "Oh, I'll get this," and paid. He seemed surprised, and thanked me.

 

I'm already worrying a little about how I'm going to keep up with him financially, because he makes way more money than I do. But I'll figure things out as I go, I'm sure.

[Negative Nancy]

I still haven't heard a good reason why a woman shouldn't chip in half?

 

We don't live in the 1950s, women have jobs, earn money, have careers, why shouldn't they pay their fair share?

 

 

because a woman already pays with her mere presence, okay, you should be grateful enough that she showed up to hang out with you in the first place because that already is a really priceless sacrifice in itself

[Sanman]

I'm already worrying a little about how I'm going to keep up with him financially, because he makes way more money than I do. But I'll figure things out as I go, I'm sure.

 

With honesty. Let him know when you can't keep up and a considerate partner will accommodate you in some way, whether it is paying or being more reasonable about your plans. No one, male or female, should feel financially pressured in a good relationship. This person is trying to be your partner and that is part of being a good partner.

[aprilmay]

He is definitely cheap if he hasn't offered to pay! c'mon girl you deserve better. you dont want to live with a cheap guy forever and he also knows its common sense for a guy to pay when on dates so the excuse of 'well he didnt know' is definitely not a legitimate one. Here's some other tips about dating and guys that i think is really applicable to you. i wrote it so let me know what you think! Check it out!

[D87]

This has got to be the dumbest thread I have ever read in my entire life. No wonder the men on this forum have so many problems with women. If you think paying for one girl's dinner is bad, try being in a 3-way polyamorous relationship with two girls and paying $150+ every time you're out at a decent restaurant.

 

I don't know about you, but I like the gender roles how they are supposed to be. They clean my house, do my laundry, cook for me, but when we go out, I'm the man, so I pay. Thank God I make decent money lol.

[Sanman]

try being in a 3-way polyamorous relationship with two girls and paying $150+ every time you're out at a decent restaurant.

 

No thanks, seems like more trouble than it is worth. I have my hands full with one.

[Snakechammah]

Haven't checked this thread for a while... and extremely amused to see all these boys crying "gold-diggers" at my post... Incredible indeed.

 

Boys, yes the right word is boys, if you don't want to pay that's fine. Nobody wants your money.

 

If we want to hold onto our belief that our body is sacred, it's up to us. Who are you to say otherwise? Don't like the idea, go bang another woman. So many fishes, so many types... why are you complaining?

 

Though it doesn't surprise me there are disrespectful boys going generous with the insults (but miser with the money) just because someone else has a different opinion, this thread seems to attract the lot of them.

 

This is why we know you don't have dates - with that attitude.

 

Nobody said the women can't pay for themselves. In fact, most of them make more money than you. Most do pay for themselves and for some of their dates too.

 

For crying out loud, if you're feeling insecure, do seek help. No need to insult anyone in this forum. Everyone has their own opinions, no need to get angry

[Snakechammah]

I don't see any insults, expecting to be financially compensated for your presence makes you an escort by definition, if you're insecure about your desire to be treated as a higher eschelon prostitute don't take it out on others.

 

Do you feel better now? Do you feel like a man now? Happy that you've made your point by implicating cheapness on a random online poster just because she shares a different belief?

 

Did you read my post about women and their body and not giving it up easily? Obviously not. Because you are quick with your insult about prostitution... think about it... Would a girl who holds out sex gives out sex for money? Your insult, though not making sense, comes from such a bitter perspective. Why are you upset, really?

 

If you don't respect women, why do you want them to love you?

[maybealone]

Im not implying anything, im stating that a person who trades their companionship for money is, by definition, an escort.

 

I have not seen anything on this thread where a woman expects cash payment for providing companionship.

 

If you are talking about payment in terms of coffee or food, well, unless someone is willing to break out a calculator and split everything down to the exact penny -- including gas for each person to get to the date location -- one person is going to come out ahead financially in any kind of date.

[dbzeng]

Well, I wouldn't necessarily suggest that 'half' is anyone's fair share, male or female, but that's an aside. At any rate, I don't think there's a problem with expecting women to chip in on dates, and I think most women DO chip in on dates to varying degrees or at least offer to do so. I certainly think one should always offer to do so.

 

I still haven't heard a good reason why women should turn down a guy she likes and plans to see again if he says he wants to pay for the entire bill. As I said to Ruby, if a guy is constantly doing so, it's nice to chip in sometime, though not at the expense of arguing about it. And I certainly get why she should decline the offer if she plans to ignore his calls or something. But generally when men pay, it's because they offer. Why is the woman wrong for accepting that offer?

 

There is no clear right or wrong. I feel that women should be more assertive in paying because the precedent we have now is not good. Society should move to place where women shouldn't expect to be paid for, where they should expect to pay half.

 

As it stands there is a lot of pressure on guys to pay for everything especially in the beginning. If you don't you are seen as cheap or poor, which maybe a complete misrepresentation of a guy. He might just want to do what he thinks it is fair.

 

We are in a society where equality is considered good. Women fought for the right to vote, women fought for the right to be educated, to work to have careers. Women fought for all of the things that so far have befitted greatly from them.

 

So why stop now? Shouldn't women fight for this to be equal as well? Yet, you constantly see women putting down guys who want women to pay their equal share (numerous examples in this thread).

 

Why stop fighting for equality when it stops being a positive and becomes a detriment? That is hypocritical.

[maybealone]

Yes, lets pretend the issue is with who spends a whole dollar more over the course of ten dates instead of the mentality that women expect men to pay for the pleasure of her company.

 

If you want to consider someone who comes out ahead financially an escort, then I am not going to differentiate between $1 or $100.

 

I don't have a problem paying for dates. I typically prefer alternating (if he pays for one date, I will pay for the next) rather than splitting each bill down the middle, but splitting is fine with me too.

 

What I do have a problem with is men that don't say what they want and use paying for a date as some secret test on the women they go out with.

 

Want to split the cost of the date? Then be a man, grow a pair, and ask the woman out on a dutch treat date. Don't complain that that will limit the number of women that will say yes to an invitation because if this an important issue to a man, he should have no interest in a woman who would say no to that invitation.