Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[Art_Critic]

Any girl who is not willing to go dutch by the second date , then set up and pay for the third date raises a major red flag IMO

 

With you posting this it begs the question... "Do you go on many second or third dates?"

[Ugh1]

I think that idea of men paying for dates comes from men showing their potential mates that they have the ability to take care of their wife (potentially). I do think men should pay for the first few dates. If you don't want to spend alot to get to know a woman, then don't. Go have ice cream and take a stroll through the park. Those have the tendency to be the least intimidating dates anyway.

Eventually, most marriages have a strong likelihood that the man will have to, at some point, provide the majority of the financial support for his family. That is just the way it is. Start it off right by showing her you have the ability to do just that.

All women want to know that their man can take care of them (I don't necessarily mean financially, but that is the start of the feeling of being able to "count on" them. )

[filani]

With you posting this it begs the question... "Do you go on many second or third dates?"

 

@ art_critc

 

I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours LOL

 

P.S you DID see the part in my post where I said it was MY opinion ,right ?

[xpaperxcutx]

From a biological point of view, women have a lot more to lose. They could end up pregnant or worse contract an STD.

 

I truly don't believe all women want something for nothing, thats only a small percentage of golddiggers and users. I do believe however that women are more like to want to protect themselves, physically and mentally. Even as children, girls have been told to be more careful than boys at their age and rightly so, because girls are physiologically inferior to men.

 

If you must bring sex into the equation, I believe statistically, women place more emphasis on the emotional effects of sex than men. If women are instinctively driven more by emotional factors it shouldn't be a crime when a woman does not want to put out.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I have a better idea. Why don't you try dating people who have what you actually think is the most valuable attribute possible - a penis?

[johan]

That's all well and good but there's no reason expect men to be like gentlemen of old when they aren't able to expect proper ladies in return.

 

I'll pay for dinner if I talked to your father about courting you and it's part of a process where you end up cooking my food and raising my children.

 

Appalachia seems like the place for you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

From a biological point of view, women have a lot more to lose. They could end up pregnant or worse contract an STD.

 

I truly don't believe all women want something for nothing, thats only a small percentage of golddiggers and users. I do believe however that women are more like to want to protect themselves, physically and mentally. Even as children, girls have been told to be more careful than boys at their age and rightly so, because girls are physiologically inferior to men.

 

If you must bring sex into the equation, I believe statistically, women place more emphasis on the emotional effects of sex than men. If women are instinctively driven more by emotional factors it shouldn't be a crime when a woman does not want to put out.

 

But according to the OP, even if she has sex with him, it still counts as giving "nothing." After he's

 

squandered his money on all her status seeking and materialistic whims simply because he has a penis.

 

I still don't quite get how having a penis makes a man squander his money, but whatev. I'll ask my husband about that when he gets home later.

 

Anyway, a guy with this perspective simply has no business doing anything at all with women. He dislikes us, and I'm sure that there haven't been many who like him despite all of his squandering and his penis.

 

So time to move on. To the "love that dare not speak its name."

[Nyla]

This question can be looked at another way.

 

What about men who do not want to invest time or money to date a woman, but expect sex?

 

What are you expecting from a woman you date? What do you want to give in return?

[xpaperxcutx]

I agree with most of what you say, BUT its not really a response to my post. It seems like you didn't read past the title.

 

Take another look at what I said.

 

I did read your post and I'm sticking by what I wrote. I just don't agree with your point of view hence my general answer. If i'm to quote the bitterness you have towards women in your post, then I have to say you've been meeting the wrong kind of women. Also you're not entitled to sex from every women you meet, that's like asking them to spread their legs just because you have a penis. I think your problem is that you're not getting enough tail hence you decide to create this thread and project your anger unto us.

[MrCastle]

From a biological point of view, women have a lot more to lose. They could end up pregnant or worse contract an STD.[/Quote]

 

What does this even mean? Both sexes can get STD's and both of them will be parents if the woman has a kid. The only difference is the actual pregnancy/child birth but that's a whole different convo not relevent to this topic.*

 

I know most girls in here will claim these girls don't exist or that it's a small percentage but it's not. OP is spot on. For 20 something year old girls at least. Most girls in school with me have no skills, talents, and a barely servicable personality. They all want to party on the weekends, and watch reality shows during the week. That's the extent of their life. Then they expect the man to have a stellar personality with charm, wit, smarts, hobbies/interests, good career, etc. This is not a small portion of people. It's a considerable amount, for both genders. That's why we try to hang on to those special ones, because they're rare.*

 

OP makes a point but I wouldn't just limit it to women, there are a lot of men that don't offer much either.*

[mesmerized]

Right, because we are BOTH having sex. She is receiving as much as she is giving.

 

 

 

 

Is that supposed to be an insulting and cutting remark? Hey guess what? Some people will have different opinions from you! No reason to insult and attack them over it.

 

Please grow up. For your own sake.

 

Maybe you suck at sex and it feels for them that they're only giving something if they're haveing sex with you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

OP, I don't have any anger or feelings of any kind about you. I think you are a fine example of a stereotype we see around here frequently, and which I find ridiculous and hilarious. Much of what you put out here is truly worthy of derision.

 

That said, I think this thread really belongs in the gigantic pile of identical ones that has a consolidated home in the "paying for dates" thread. Lord knows, we didn't need yet another one.

 

Like I always say, if you don't want to pay for something, why on Earth are you? And if you aren't paying for anything why is it something worth your time and energy to whine about?

 

Just so you know, I am certainly old enough to be your mother and I have young men and women in my life and family that are your age. They are mostly very attractive, many of them brilliant, interesting, vibrant, socially conscious, inquisitive, and they have a lot of fun AND have sex lives. Yes, they have troubles - which don't include freaking out about paying for something. They would be embarrassed to know a guy who holds the kinds of views that you so proudly display around here.

[ThaWholigan]

You shouldn't, and don't, have to squander anything. Why anyone still subscribes to this is pure retardation in my opinion. Quite a few women of varying ages (20s too) really aren't that bothered - unless you live with your mum and are broke or something. I get your point though - there are a lot of women like this, but it's not the epidemic you guys seem to think it is, or portray it as.

 

And I don't think we can speculate exactly how a lot of women see or use sex to even say that they use it for what you claim.

[ThaWholigan]

Maybe you suck at sex and it feels for them that they're only giving something if they're haveing sex with you.

http://lolpics.se/pics/126.jpg

[Badsingularity]

Most women who find a guy they realy like and are attracted to will go out of their way to make him happy because they want him to like her and start a relationship with her.

[Anela]

That's all well and good but there's no reason expect men to be like gentlemen of old when they aren't able to expect proper ladies in return.

 

I'll pay for dinner if I talked to your father about courting you and it's part of a process where you end up cooking my food and raising my children.

 

My father would show you the door.

[ThaWholigan]

I think you are a fine example of a stereotype we see around here frequently, and which I find ridiculous and hilarious. Much of what you put out here is truly worthy of derision.

 

That said, I think this thread really belongs in the gigantic pile of identical ones that has a consolidated home in the "paying for dates" thread. Lord knows, we didn't need yet another one.

 

The bolded is the problem with this thread IMO. Antagonism for it's own sake, as usual . Met with more antagonism .

[Art_Critic]

@ art_critc

 

I'll tell you mine if you tell me yours LOL

 

P.S you DID see the part in my post where I said it was MY opinion ,right ?

 

I don't date anymore.. I'm taken .. but your answer is fine.. it tells me what I was getting at.

[ThaWholigan]

Maybe its a location thing. Where I live, a lot of young women are very materialistic and expect men to pay. I even hear people arguing over this on the local radio station every other week.

 

Maybe its different where you live.

Wouldn't matter to me even if it were like this over here. There are probably a few over there, but I probably wouldn't be dating them anyway so I don't care.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Maybe its a location thing. Where I live, a lot of young women are very materialistic and expect men to pay. I even hear people arguing over this on the local radio station every other week.

 

Maybe its different where you live.

 

BUT WHY ARE YOU WHINING ABOUT IT?

 

Just DON'T PAY FOR DATES!

 

If women expect you to do so, perhaps they are materialistic individuals who you don't want to have anything to do with anyway, so walk on by!

 

Sheesh!

 

And also, you've told me to "grow up" many times by now. It's the kind of thing that little kids say in the schoolyard. Do you know this?

[bac]

That is just scary. It is nice for a man to be thankful that a woman let him have sex with her? So he should by dinner as pre-payment? Wow, so in you eyes women are pretty much prostitutes? Women cannot want casual sex as well? Men cannot want relationships? That whole statement just boggles my mind.

 

I do not think that if a man pays for the first dates it means that he is dating prostitutes.

A prostitute is a woman of the lowest/the worst quality.

A woman who allows a man to pay for dates can be any quality including very high quality. Also, the woman does not sell herself because she is free to say 'no' after the date. She just gives a man a chance for sex/or R in the future.

 

Also, anyone who does not want to pay for the first dates have many other options to do smth cheap or free. Why would he ask a girl out for an expensive dinner on the first date?

 

Women can want casual sex but it is hard to find the women. Most women have just 2-3 short periods for the whole life when they are OK with casual sex.

For example, a very short period when she is a teen/or early 20s. It is a period of trying reality and experimenting with casual sex. From what I know, it takes about 3 men to realize how unpleasant casual sex for a girl is. Next period might be during a long-term marriage or after the divorce. From what I know, it takes about 2 years to realize completely how unpleasant casual sex is.

 

Men can want Rs. But, those men who want Rs are already in Rs (unless they are in early 20s). Most men who are available online want casual sex.

[Sanman]

I do not think that if a man pays for the first dates it means that he is dating prostitutes.

A prostitute is a woman of the lowest/the worst quality. A woman who allows a man to pay for dates can be any quality including very high quality. Also, the woman does not sell herself because she is free to say 'no' after the date. She just gives a man a chance for sex/or R in the future. Also, anyone who does not want to pay for the first dates have many other options to do smth cheap or free. Why would he ask a girl out for an expensive dinner on the first date?

 

No, a prostitute can be of any quality. By definition, a prostitute is someone who receives some sort of payment for sexual services. If you are suggesting I need to pay for a date to thank the woman for possible casual sex, you are suggesting she is a prostitute. How much I spend is simply a function of how expensive she is. If I am paying for the possibility of sex, then saying no is simply in bad faith or not tactful. Rather, a woman should opt to return my monetary investment in some other way should she not sleep with me (maybe pay for a date of meal for both of us). Also, according to your logic, I should not need to pay for a relationship with a woman as there are fewer men who want relationships than women. Thus, you are suggesting men pay women for sex.

 

 

 

Women can want casual sex but it is hard to find the women. Most women have just 2-3 short periods for the whole life when they are OK with casual sex.

For example, a very short period when she is a teen/or early 20s. It is a period of trying reality and experimenting with casual sex. From what I know, it takes about 3 men to realize how unpleasant casual sex for a girl is. Next period might be during a long-term marriage or after the divorce. From what I know, it takes about 2 years to realize completely how unpleasant casual sex is.

 

Men can want Rs. But, those men who want Rs are already in Rs (unless they are in early 20s). Most men who are available online want casual sex.

 

Not true. I know plenty of women that like casual sex and continue to practice it for years. Many women I meet continue to practice casual sex or FWB whenever they are not in a relationship. A few of the women in one of my groups of friends has slept with most of the good looking guys over the years in just such a fashion. Nothing wrong with that is they want to do so, but let us not pretend there are a shortage of woman participating in casual sex (at least in the Western world). If most of the men who want relationships are taken, shouldn't women have to do something to impress a relationship minded man? Perhaps, she might pick a up a few checks herself.

[bac]

No, a prostitute can be of any quality.

 

Sure, it depends on person's values and attitude.

For me, any prostitute is not high quality. But, it is just my personal opinion and value.

 

Not true. Many women I meet continue to practice casual sex or FWB whenever they are not in a relationship. Nothing wrong with that is they want to do so, but let us not pretend there are a shortage of woman participating in casual sex (at least in the Western world).

 

Sure, but, there are women who are not fine wth ONSs/FWBs and paying for the first dates. Therefore, you should make sure that you are going out with the right girl who completely shares your attitude on dating. Therefore, before the first date, you should ask your girl 'Are you fine with ONSs/FWBs and also with paying yourself on the first date?'. If she answers 'Sure. That is great!', it means that she has the same attitude as you do and therefore you can expect her to behave the way you want.

 

But, if you did not ask her the questions before the first date, you have no right/evidence to expect that she is practicing casual sex/FWBs/ONSs and that she prefers to pay on the first dates.

[Sanman]

Sure, but, there are women who are not fine wth ONSs/FWBs and paying for the first dates. Therefore, you should make sure that you are going out with the right girl who completely shares your attitude on dating. Therefore, before the first date, you should ask your girl 'Are you fine with ONSs/FWBs and also with paying yourself on the first date?'. If she answers 'Sure. That is great!', it means that she has the same attitude as you do and therefore you can expect her to behave the way you want.

 

But, if you did not ask her the questions before the first date, you have no right/evidence to expect that she is practicing casual sex/FWBs/ONSs and that she prefers to pay on the first dates.

 

I don't see any reason that the onus be put on the man for either of those issues. In an age of equality, a woman should be able to make her own decisions regarding sex and pay for her own meals/activities. Should a man feel the need to be generous and pay for the woman, then good for her.

[NoMoreJerks]

I learned a valuable lesson from my experience with my ex. He almost never offered to pay for my dinner. In fact, a lot of the time, when the restaurant gave us one bill instead of two separate ones, he wouldn't even bother to touch the bill, so I used to pick it up and pay for the both of us. Only rarely did he pick up the bill, and I could tell he paid for both of us almost reluctantly. He would've preferred to ask them to split it up, but he was forced into not asking because I had paid for his in the past. At any rate, I later found out that, even though his company's per diem was $50, he was only spending $20 / day and putting the rest aside for his solo trip to Thailand (he goes there 3-4 times every year, to ogle ladies, and claims he just loved the country and the friendliness of people there). I was livid. I didn't tell him anything, though. And the relationship started going downhill anyhow.

 

But based on this experience: I will never EVER pick up the check at a restaurant, if I go on a date. Especially not the first 5-6 dates. Sure, it will feel awkward, as I hate it when someone pays for my meal, but it's the way to go, to make sure you are dealing with a decent man, not a selfish, narcissistic *******. Beyond the 5-6 dates, I would offer to split the check, but NEVER EVER will I pay for the both of us. EVER. That was a big mistake, and it was in tune with, and set the tone for, our relationship. Me constantly bending over backwards to keep him satisfied. **** that. Never again.

Edited September 16, 2012 by NoMoreJerks