musemaj11 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 The only reason women can still expect men to pay for them is because there are still plenty of men out there who still think its their job to pay. Today its pretty hard to find a woman who can be expected to stay in the kitchen because most women no longer accept that its their gender responsibility. As a result, the newer generation of men in turn no longer expect their women be able to cook. So in other words, men should do the same. Link to post Share on other sites
allenpo123 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I'm all about gender equality, but if the guy doesn't offer to pay for the date, it's a big NO. Haha, talk about double standards, but hey, if the guy is so UNWILLINGLY to pay for his girl, is he worth keeping? And if the girl cares a whole lot about the guy paying or not, she isn't right for the guy either. What happened to me and my ex was he offered to pay for the meal, tickets, taxi, but I would offer to pay a couple times which eventually evened it out. I feel like he should be able to provide because he's the "guy"(I know, not fair), but I'm also working so I can help pay as well. Although I have to admit it would be such a big turn on if he wouldn't let me pay Link to post Share on other sites
123321 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I pay for most things, but my GF cleans my place and does most of the laundry, and that's no tongue in cheek, it's called teamwork and a decent sign of compatible lifestyle choices. Link to post Share on other sites
musemaj11 Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Maybe I am progressive, or just trying to make it clear that I am independent. So If i am on a dinner "date", when the check comes I will reach for my purse and casually offer to pay. Which I think is something women can do if they feel like they are imposing, or something. And the man will either let you, or he will state that "he's got it". It doesn't have to be a big deal, and at least for me personally, I feel better for at least offering:) Most men know that accepting an offer to pay from a woman is a bad move because most if not all women expect their offers to be turned down. Personally I hate being expected to pay but for this reason I never accepted a woman's 'offer' to pay because I didnt wanna ruin my chances to at least have sex with her. Besides, I noticed that when a woman truly intends to pay, she simply goes ahead and pay rather than pretending to offer which puts the man in an awkward position. Link to post Share on other sites
zebracolors Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Most men know that accepting an offer to pay from a woman is a bad move because most if not all women expect their offers to be turned down. Personally I hate being expected to pay but for this reason I never accepted a woman's 'offer' to pay because I didnt wanna ruin my chances to at least have sex with her. Besides, I noticed that when a woman truly intends to pay, she simply goes ahead and pay rather than pretending to offer which puts the man in an awkward position. For me at least thats not just pretending to pay. If I offer to pay I fully intend to. And I don't expect the guy to turn down my offer to pay. If he lets me pay I do it. And since where is it written that if the guy pays for the dinner, she is somehow obligated to have sex with him? Link to post Share on other sites
sillyanswer Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 And since where is it written that if the guy pays for the dinner, she is somehow obligated to have sex with him? In this thread, ad nauseum. Link to post Share on other sites
KungFuJoe Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I will always pay for a first date...in fact I'll INSIST on paying. I mean, it's just something a guy is supposed to do, as far as I'm concerned. I don't question it. One time, though, on a first date with a girl, she "tricked" me and ended up paying. I thought it was a very sweet gesture. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
crude Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 And since where is it written that if the guy pays for the dinner, she is somehow obligated to have sex with him? I think it's written where it says if a woman walks into a shoe store and pays $400, she expects to walk out with 4 pairs of shoes. People who pay for things expect to get something in return. At least you're willing to pay and not make it a game of chicken, where the man always backs down for fear of not getting sex. Link to post Share on other sites
trevzilla Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Oh come on... It's supposed to be that a guy pays for a couple of first dates and then comes a point when she offers to treat him and then there comes a point where it pretty much evens up, right? If it's OLD hell no, there are lots of serial daters who just line guys up for free meals and movies and drinks. Link to post Share on other sites
FitChick Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 If it's OLD hell no, there are lots of serial daters who just line guys up for free meals and movies and drinks. That wouldn't affect most of the men on LS since they aren't dating at all. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Flay Posted January 19, 2013 Share Posted January 19, 2013 What's that about free meals and stuff? Is it customary in America to go to an expensive restaurant for a first date? Would anything else be considered frugal? Where I come from, a first date or meet-up usually means meeting for a cup of coffee or a piece of cake somewhere. Sometimes even for a walk along the river bank. It's short, but if the two of you click, you can always make it longer by ordering more drinks or going somewhere else. Why would I sit at a dinner table with a person I barely know, with the implicit obligation to stay until the dessert is finished? That's just setting yourself up for an awkward time if things don't go well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
harnold Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Ok, so it was always understood to me that the guy takes care of the bill. That's always been the case for me whether dating or in a relationship, and for many of my friends. For example, going out to dinner. I'm not talking crazy extreme dinners, like 80$ a meal type stuff, but moreso like 30 or so. But now as I look around - maybe I am just starting to notice it now - I see many couples where there is a definite "division of labor" in the way they pay. Guys picks up his tab, girl picks up hers, etc. That's weird to me, and I've never been a white knight or anything, but is that the trend/proper way to do things? Does it differ for whether youre dating or in a relationship? Is there a certain price range/activity that is moreso conducive towards both parties picking up the tab than just one? Lemme hear! Link to post Share on other sites
Majoras Mask Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Here's my opinion. As a female in my 30's, anytime I am asked on a date, I will always offer to pay my own share, particularly on a first date because I feel like if we don't click then neither of us wasted any money and I can walk away without feeling guilty. Now if he adamantly insists on paying then I do not make a scene, I refuse once or twice but then will allow him to pay. I never expect anyone to pay for me unless he specifically tells me beforehand that he is taking me out for a big night on him. It's a treat to have a man take me out for dinner and drinks and I'm always very thankful if a man is sweet enough to do that for me but I never expect it. Just my take on things. Link to post Share on other sites
pbjbear Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Ive always paid for myself on dates (unless the guy is super insistent...) I find that way I dont owe a guy sex or anything if I pay. I like to be independent anyway. I have probably over 10 guys tell me how much they appreciate it and how it is "so easy to date me" I havent had great success with dating. I live in NYC and Ive dated a ton and Ive sometimes wondered if I make it too easy for them (I dont with other stuff, I dont put out early, but with paying I might...) However, with feminism really women have taken away the only disadvantage men had previously which is being expected to pay. Now men arent expected to pay and women are expected to put out earlier or shes a "prude" and he can get it somewhere else with no judgment. I think its much easier to be a guy today in the dating world assuming you have options with women. Nowadays, women are expected to not be only beautiful but also to be educated and financially independent (or at least in NYC that is how it is) The men? Average looking and financially independent... Edited February 19, 2013 by pbjbear Link to post Share on other sites
harnold Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Ive always paid for myself on dates. I find that way I dont owe a guy sex or anything if I pay and I like to be independent anyway. I havent had great success with dating. I live in NYC and Ive dated a ton and Ive sometimes wondered if I make it too easy for me (I dont with other stuff but with paying I might...) However, with feminism really women have taken away the only disadvantage men had previously which is being expected to pay. Now men arent expected to pay and women are expected to put out earlier or shes a "prude" and he can get it somewhere else with no judgment. I think its much easier to be a guy today in the dating world. That's actually very interesting. I was having a conversation with a girl few days ago, and we were comparing the perception of dating through the eyes of a guy and the eyes of a girl (namely, the art of approaching vs "being approached"). One of the thing she mentioned was what you said... that she's always cautious when she gets flowered with gifts, because it implies the guy wants to have sex with her (which is analogous to your viewpoint). I found that pretty interesting, because I never drew a correlation between that and sex. I always thought gift showering was just wrong cause it was... inappropriate. You barely know the person. I mean, I never shower anybody with gifts, I do always pay for the meals and whatnot, but not because I'm trying to get sex but because its the traditional way I guess (I mean, I am trying to get sex, but by creating attraction through personality, not via gifts). So that's very interesting to me!! That aside, do you think it differs within the context of an actual relationship? Like in terms of who should pick up what Link to post Share on other sites
SJC2008 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Ive always paid for myself on dates (unless the guy is super insistent...) I find that way I dont owe a guy sex or anything if I pay. I like to be independent anyway. I have probably over 10 guys tell me how much they appreciate it and how it is "so easy to date me" I havent had great success with dating. I live in NYC and Ive dated a ton and Ive sometimes wondered if I make it too easy for them (I dont with other stuff, I dont put out early, but with paying I might...) However, with feminism really women have taken away the only disadvantage men had previously which is being expected to pay. Now men arent expected to pay and women are expected to put out earlier or shes a "prude" and he can get it somewhere else with no judgment. I think its much easier to be a guy today in the dating world assuming you have options with women. Nowadays, women are expected to not be only beautiful but also to be educated and financially independent (or at least in NYC that is how it is) The men? Average looking and financially independent... I don't mind paying for the first few dates at all and wouldn't even let a woman who offered to pay or split do so until the 3rd date. TBS just becaue I'm dating a woman and paying for dates doesn't mean I have a she owes me sex attitude nor do I expect her to put out early. I want a woman who's not gonna give it up to just anybody and don't mind waiting at all. Plenty women say guys just want sex but plenty of them would be quick to think a guy's a virgin or lacks exp if he doesn't try to have sex with her within a certain time frame so it goes both ways. Link to post Share on other sites
pbjbear Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Feminism is all good but one thing I havent liked is that it has allowed men to give up the only disadvantage they have in dating nowadays: being expected to pay Now women are expected to pay for themselves AAAAANNNNND we are expected to put out early...men have it easy nowadays Link to post Share on other sites
crude Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I don't mind paying for the first few dates at all and wouldn't even let a woman who offered to pay or split do so until the 3rd date. Why does a person feel that he simply HAS to pay because he's a male? Link to post Share on other sites
pbjbear Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Why does a person feel that he simply HAS to pay because he's a male? For the same reason a woman HAS to put out early (meaning before 5 dates...good luck finding a guy who will wait a few months for sex like I would love to do!) because shes a female and thats all we are useful for (thats what most men are after at least its no. 1 on the list) Link to post Share on other sites
SJC2008 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Why does a person feel that he simply HAS to pay because he's a male? I don't feel that I have to persay. Yes it is the "norm" and/or a gender role if you will. To me it's a normal part of courtship. You meet a woman you like, take her out and treat her to a good time. After a few dates she can start chipping in. I have no problem with that at all. I honestly have no idea why it's such a debateable topic?? It would only be debateable for me if she never wanted to pay. Link to post Share on other sites
SJC2008 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 For the same reason a woman HAS to put out early (meaning before 5 dates...good luck finding a guy who will wait a few months for sex like I would love to do!) because shes a female and thats all we are useful for (thats what most men are after at least its no. 1 on the list) First of all let me clear something up. I'm don't just want sex! I want STEADY sex!!! lol I have no problem waiting at all for sex. I can't be the only man on the face of the earth that will wait for sex. We're out there, trust me. But like I said, the longer you wait the more she's gonna question your interest and whether you're a virgin boy scared of the coochie. Where are the women who won't ask these questions when a man waits? That's what I want to know! Link to post Share on other sites
pbjbear Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 First of all let me clear something up. I'm don't just want sex! I want STEADY sex!!! lol I have no problem waiting at all for sex. I can't be the only man on the face of the earth that will wait for sex. We're out there, trust me. But like I said, the longer you wait the more she's gonna question your interest and whether you're a virgin boy scared of the coochie. Where are the women who won't ask these questions when a man waits? That's what I want to know! Ive dated a virgin and a few shyer guys. I didnt care. I even broke my own rules and did alot of effort in the beginning of dating with them. I tend to do better with people who seem more genuine. It still resulted in the same thing. It came out differently because they didnt have as many options compared to more outgoing men though. Ive coming to think most men (meaning around 80%) are just selfish no matter what their personality type is Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 However, with feminism really women have taken away the only disadvantage men had previously which is being expected to pay. Now men arent expected to pay and women are expected to put out earlier or shes a "prude" and he can get it somewhere else with no judgment. I think its much easier to be a guy today in the dating world assuming you have options with women. I disagree that men aren't expected to pay on dates. (At least the first few dates -- obviously if you start seeing each other more often, the woman should start picking up the tab sometimes.) 99% of the men I've encountered and dated expect to pay on the first date, and are happy to do so. And I don't feel like I owe them anything for doing so, much less sex. Do you really always pay for yourself on dates? If you do, then how can you complain that they guy isn't expected to pay, when you don't even give him the chance to pay? Maybe you should try a different tactic and let the guy take you out on a date without feeling like it has to be halfsies. That doesn't feel romantic; it feels like two friends going out. I think maybe you do yourself a disservice by offering to pay. For the record, the only time I offer to pay on a first date is when I know I don't want to see the guy again. Then I feel obligated to at least offer, so he isn't out anything. Link to post Share on other sites
MyPoutine Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I pay, I never let people I don't know well treat me regardless of gender so until I know a guy well enough I will refuse any attempts to pay for me. This also balances out my other life philosophy of waiting 3 months before being intimate, if the guy chooses to bail after a month or so I won't feel guilty and like I've used him. Link to post Share on other sites
pbjbear Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I disagree that men aren't expected to pay on dates. (At least the first few dates -- obviously if you start seeing each other more often, the woman should start picking up the tab sometimes.) 99% of the men I've encountered and dated expect to pay on the first date, and are happy to do so. And I don't feel like I owe them anything for doing so, much less sex. Do you really always pay for yourself on dates? If you do, then how can you complain that they guy isn't expected to pay, when you don't even give him the chance to pay? Maybe you should try a different tactic and let the guy take you out on a date without feeling like it has to be halfsies. That doesn't feel romantic; it feels like two friends going out. I think maybe you do yourself a disservice by offering to pay. For the record, the only time I offer to pay on a first date is when I know I don't want to see the guy again. Then I feel obligated to at least offer, so he isn't out anything. Then they expect things from you quickly. Most men have an exchange theory in the back of their mind whether they are willing to admit it or not. Sad buts its the truth. I used to let men pay for me Ive had several men flat out say they thought it was awesome they didnt have to pay. Link to post Share on other sites
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