Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[pbjbear]

I've found that most PEOPLE are selfish.

 

Like I said in another discussion, don't start hating on men until you've dated some women.

 

I have already said women can be selfish too, but I know far more selfish men than selfish women in my dating world.

 

Women are taught to be the more caring, nurturing sex so this isnt a surprise. Men are not expected to be caring and nurturing

[pbjbear]

I pay, I never let people I don't know well treat me regardless of gender so until I know a guy well enough I will refuse any attempts to pay for me.

 

This also balances out my other life philosophy of waiting 3 months before being intimate, if the guy chooses to bail after a month or so I won't feel guilty and like I've used him.

 

This....most men will bail. In NYC good luck finding a man who will wait more than 2 months with no sex

[clia]

Then they expect things from you quickly. Most men have an exchange theory in the back of their mind whether they are willing to admit it or not. Sad buts its the truth. I used to let men pay for me

 

Ive had several men flat out say they thought it was awesome they didnt have to pay.

 

But don't they still expect it even if you do pay? Men are men. They want sex. They can expect whatever they want, but obviously you don't have to give it to them. (As you know...)

 

Of course they think it's awesome if you pay -- they think they don't have to actually court you and they will still get sex. I just can't imagine going dutch on a first date. Not romantic at all.

[pbjbear]

But don't they still expect it even if you do pay? Men are men. They want sex. They can expect whatever they want, but obviously you don't have to give it to them. (As you know...)

 

Of course they think it's awesome if you pay -- they think they don't have to actually court you and they will still get sex. I just can't imagine going dutch on a first date. Not romantic at all.

 

 

I have never ever ever put out before 5 dates. I could write a book on men that have tried its pretty pathetic. Once I slept with someone on the 5th date and that was a long time ago. Most men I date I am not previously friends with and do not know well. Me not putting out quickly is a huge part of my dating problems Im sure because men feel entitled to sex quickly nowadays

[clia]

I have never ever ever put out before 5 dates. I could write a book on men that have tried its pretty pathetic. Once I slept with someone on the 5th date and that was a long time ago. Most men I date I am not previously friends with and do not know well. Me not putting out quickly is a huge part of my dating problems Im sure because men feel entitled to sex quickly nowadays

 

That's what I'm saying, though. Even when you do pay, they still expect sex by the third date. You paying doesn't magically make them want to wait longer for sex. They wait longer if they are into you and think you are worth it.

 

So, why not just let them pay?

[MyPoutine]

This....most men will bail. In NYC good luck finding a man who will wait more than 2 months with no sex

 

Thing is even those who put out early end up being dumped anyway, if a guy likes you enough he will be willing to build something meaningful with you - sex won't change that.

[pbjbear]

Thing is even those who put out early end up being dumped anyway, if a guy likes you enough he will be willing to build something meaningful with you - sex won't change that.

 

Oh I know that..but there are tons of beautiful women in NYC. There is a surplus of women. If you dont put out within 3 dates they can easily find someone else who will. To all the average men on this forum who complain I tell them to move here. I know several average looking men who moved here and brag how easily they can get dates left and right. It goes to their head and they start using other people. People are selfish! I will probably be single until I am in my mid 30's here Ive accepted it.

 

When I start dating again I might let a man pay more in the beginning, but yeah they still expect sex within 3 dates because most men are more animalistic than human and think with their dick and see women as sex objects.

[e40]

Me not putting out quickly is a huge part of my dating problems Im sure because men feel entitled to sex quickly nowadays

How is that part of your dating problems? Waiting weeds out those looking for just sex.

[ltjg45]

Oh I know that..but there are tons of beautiful women in NYC. There is a surplus of women. If you dont put out within 3 dates they can easily find someone else who will. To all the average men on this forum who complain I tell them to move here. I know several average looking men who moved here and brag how easily they can get dates left and right. It goes to their head and they start using other people. People are selfish! I will probably be single until I am in my mid 30's here Ive accepted it.

 

When I start dating again I might let a man pay more in the beginning, but yeah they still expect sex within 3 dates because most men are more animalistic than human and think with their dick and see women as sex objects.

 

I will keep that in mind.

 

After all, all I'm looking for is a female that I can love and respect. While I have preferences outside of that, it can be dropped if I find the right female.

 

If there really is a surplus of woman in NYC, I might as well see what they can offer. Besides, I wanted to visit the Pokemon Center there anyway if it still there. I certainly hope it is.

 

Hell, what do I have to lose? My sanity?

 

For what it is worth, I'm posting here, for crying out loud. I'm not considered "sane" any longer.

[ltjg45]

In my experience, changing locations to get girls isn't a good idea. If you can't get girls where you're at, it probably won't change simply by moving.

 

There isn't a high amount of decent females down here in Jacksonville FL.

 

The sheer majority you can tell because they are driving around in vehicles and already have boyfriends/husbands.

 

The leftovers? There is a reason why they are still single and I normally would tell pretty quickly.

 

Not to mention they aren't very attractive and I don't have a high standard.

[ltjg45]

Fair point.

 

There are a lot of attractive, single females in NYC.

 

I don't know much about the Jacksonville dating scene.

 

I'm going out more often right now but, if riding on the city bus is any indication, I need to keep my standards low because only 5% of the females who do ride the city bus, I would approach towards.

 

The rest? Attitude, their fashion style, or they stink worse than me sweating in 100-degree weather.

 

It really do make me sad that I was born and raised here all of my life. I so need new scenery.

[pbjbear]

It's funny that you say that.

 

I used to live in NYC. Many of the women out there that I met in their 20s are either:

 

1) looking for sexual relationships

2) make poor dating choices (are interested in guys that have no job or are not bf material)

 

This is based on my observations. Many of my female friends are successful women that date losers with no jobs that leech off of them.

 

I was never like that, but (admittedly) I was not bf material when I lived in New York, but many women tried to convert me into that.

 

My friends that were really nice guys and bf material went dateless.

 

Again, that was based solely on my observations. Obviously, it could be different in different circles.

 

yeah when I say "leech" I dont mean financially...

I have dated several different personality types. Some have been real outgoing and funny, others more reserved and introverted. Some have been nerdy some have been big into fitness. I can do either because I have interests in both. I made mistakes when younger but Ive made an effort to broaden the type I date. Luckily, I like different types.

 

The vast majority of my friends avoid guys that seem like players (like me...they all want something real) but the thing is people are deceptive and alot of them have dated guys I thought were nice but they turned out to be the same.

 

Men are only as faithful as their options it seems- when theres a surplus they are less likely to settle down (unless its a girl way out of their league) add into the fact that there are alot of attractive females here and its even worse.

 

People on this site dont seem to get how someone presents themselves and acts during the first 2 months of dating is often not representative. Many men will lie about their motives too

[pbjbear]

I will keep that in mind.

 

After all, all I'm looking for is a female that I can love and respect. While I have preferences outside of that, it can be dropped if I find the right female.

 

If there really is a surplus of woman in NYC, I might as well see what they can offer. Besides, I wanted to visit the Pokemon Center there anyway if it still there. I certainly hope it is.

 

Hell, what do I have to lose? My sanity?

 

For what it is worth, I'm posting here, for crying out loud. I'm not considered "sane" any longer.

 

Im sure if you moved here you wouldnt have issues as long as you avoid the girls that do constant clubbing or are overly obsessed with their jobs.

 

I hear SoCal has a surplus of men so it must be the opposite...maybe I should move there

[ltjg45]

Im sure if you moved here you wouldnt have issues as long as you avoid the girls that do constant clubbing or are overly obsessed with their jobs.

 

I hear SoCal has a surplus of men so it must be the opposite...maybe I should move there

 

Just don't come to Jacksonville. There is a lack of both decent males and females.

 

There is a reason why I only have 2 friends from Jacksonville on my FB friends list.

[123321]

Many men will lie about their motives too

 

Or just change their mind as they get to know the woman in question ....

[normal person]

'Don't know what geography has to do with paying for dates, but you guys might find this useful.

 

http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry/wp-content/blogs.dir/454/files/2012/04/i-3a59a493c18d0a3b17f1ee95d9bd3248-singles_mapsingle.gif

[pbjbear]

Or just change their mind as they get to know the woman in question ....

 

If you change your mind you should let them know. I have had that happen to me (dated a guy, got to know him and didnt like what I saw and stopped being interested) and Ive never strung some along. I always tell them. I am a blatantly honest person and I aint no hypocrite. I also dont like hurting people

 

Men will find any excuse to get what they want while using somebody I find. Many become not interested and just keep going because they dont have alot of options and they wanna see how long the girl will go before she starts questioning things...SELFISH

[pbjbear]

Are you sure that it's not the guys you're dating.

 

My best female friend (or BFF, if you will) seems to have similar issues. She seems to have the worst taste in men and even denies guys that seem, to me, like genuinely good guys.

 

She always seems to date the same guy in different forms and claims that no other guys are around.

 

However, from my objective standpoint, there are other guys interested in her that I know to be good guys. But she usually just friendzones them and says something like "I'm not attracted to him."

 

Every woman that I know that has trouble with guys does this same thing.

 

I dont know. Ive asked my friends for their opinion but they dont think I have a broken man picker. A few guys that burned me they seemed pretty surprised about it as well. Most of it stems from many guys where I live dont see the point of staying with one girl when theres so many to pick from.

 

If I have any guy friends that are interested in me I sure as hell dont know about it (except one but hes too much of a manwhore for me and is prob only interested because I refused to sleep with him and he sees it as a challenge)

[crude]

I disagree that men aren't expected to pay on dates. (At least the first few dates -- obviously if you start seeing each other more often, the woman should start picking up the tab sometimes.)

 

 

So the man should pay not just the first time, but the first few, then she can pay sometimes, but mostly still him. If a man pays 90% of the time, you find that romantic. I find it romantic if a woman pays her own way, so I know she's not just going along with me for the free meals and trips. How else is a guy to know? The arrogance and sense of entitlement of women is supernatural.

[123321]

Men will find any excuse to get what they want while using somebody I find. Many become not interested and just keep going because they dont have alot of options and they wanna see how long the girl will go before she starts questioning things...SELFISH

 

When I was younger I just wasn't good at breakups. I seldom dislike the other person, I just don't see things working out and I know it's gonna hurt when the inevitable happens, so I used to put it off and put it off, because no one normal likes to see a girl they like cry.

[clia]

So the man should pay not just the first time, but the first few, then she can pay sometimes, but mostly still him. If a man pays 90% of the time, you find that romantic.

 

Who said anything about 90% of the time? Not me. Who said anything about "mostly still him?" Not me. Please don't put words in my mouth.

 

A man doesn't have to choose expensive dates for the first few dates if he doesn't want to spend a lot of money. Have coffee or ice cream. Go to the beach and have a picnic. Take a walk through the park. Go to a free festival. Go to a museum on "free day." Take advantage of the $10 entree deal at TGI Fridays. Go for a run together. Take a walk around downtown or a cool neighborhood together. There are tons of things of things you can do so you don't break the bank on the first few dates, if you aren't sure of her interest level.

 

And yeah, I don't find it romantic to split the bill on the first few dates. Neither do most women.

 

I find it romantic if a woman pays her own way, so I know she's not just going along with me for the free meals and trips.

 

Who said anything about trips? Not me. But hey, if a man wants to take me on a free trip, who am I to decline? If you don't want to take a woman on a free trip, don't invite her on a trip and offer to pay. That's a really easy solution.

 

Here's a clue for you: Unless you are really, really wealthy and buying a woman all kinds of expensive stuff and regularly taking her to the top restaurants in town and on fancy trips, you really don't have to worry about a woman using you for your money. In other words, most women aren't going to put up with a guy they aren't interested in just for an occasional meal at Olive Garden or the local brewpub.

 

This might be shocking to you, but a lot of men out there have no problem treating a woman to a date. They are your competition. If you don't want to do it and you are so afraid of being used for your wads of money, then don't do it. Ask her to chip in her half of the dinner bill when it comes. It's no skin off my back.

 

How else is a guy to know?

 

If a woman is never reciprocating at all, that's a clue. If she isn't returning your calls, doing nice things for you, giving you kisses and hugs, and paying attention to you, that's a clue. If all she ever does is suggest expensive restaurants for you to take her to, that's also a clue. I'm sure there are about a thousand threads on this site regarding how to tell if a woman is interested in you.

 

The arrogance and sense of entitlement of women is supernatural.

 

Yep, I like a man to court me. So sue me. I've never had a problem finding quality dates, either, so you keep on dating women who are willing to deal with the crumbs and split the bill with you, and I'll keep on dating the men who don't mind buying me dinner. Cool?

[crude]

 

 

 

Yep, I like a man to court me. So sue me. I've never had a problem finding quality dates, either, so you keep on dating women who are willing to deal with the crumbs and split the bill with you, and I'll keep on dating the men who don't mind buying me dinner. Cool?

 

I'm way past caring. Now, all I want is sex, and by focusing on insecurities, vulnerability, and knowing human nature, I can do well.

[pbjbear]

I'm way past caring. Now, all I want is sex, and by focusing on insecurities, vulnerability, and knowing human nature, I can do well.

 

Funny how all you want is sex yet you hate on any woman with a vengeance who shows the slightest sign of liking money,

 

Tell ya, men are selfish little misygonist pigs nowadays

[pbjbear]

When I was younger I just wasn't good at breakups. I seldom dislike the other person, I just don't see things working out and I know it's gonna hurt when the inevitable happens, so I used to put it off and put it off, because no one normal likes to see a girl they like cry.

 

 

 

That but I find its more so you like the SEX

[crude]

Funny how all you want is sex yet you hate on any woman with a vengeance who shows the slightest sign of liking money,

 

Tell ya, men are selfish little misygonist pigs nowadays

 

 

I don't care anymore because women have shown themselves to be takers, not partners. And pbjbear, don't be fooled by a man who waits for sex. He probably is getting it elsewhere, and can afford to wait, and make it seem like he's a great guy who's respectful and considerate. When she finally thinks it's time, he adds her to the rotation. I swear I don't understand why women don't just have sex with men they've know for years, friends, and not some stranger after 3-5 dates.