Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[its a lifestyle]

You make it sound like society changes with time. In this particular time, that sexual double standard is adhered to by weasels. Many a woman has an active sex life and isn't tarred and feathered. And women now earn good money, and shouldn't expect to be paid for, like it or not. These idiotic double standards only last as long as people are too gutless to say no way and do the right thing.

 

You WISH!!

You WISH you could be a slut and not be tarnished with the slut brush...

You WISH that double standard didn't exist...

 

Well guess what? It does exist!

[impendia]

Thanks to everyone for responding.

 

In response to "What is the issue?", I've generally had poor luck at dating. I often hear "Be yourself" and "be confident", followed by specific suggestions that don't jibe with my gut. I've tried paying for dates and so on, but it has felt like I was being fake, and it has often led either to me getting rejected, or to a dating experience that hasn't been a lot of fun.

 

In response to "Count yourself lucky", I count myself lucky to have a fantastic job and an interesting personal life, so that staying single isn't all that bad. In that regard I'm extremely lucky. If I just wanted to get laid, I would be less averse to "playing the game", guessing what women are expecting it, and doing it. But I am looking for a fulfilling relationship, and I've found that my first step has often been a misstep -- and so I'll looking to understand the process better.

 

Thanks.

[impendia]

You WISH!!

You WISH you could be a slut and not be tarnished with the slut brush...

You WISH that double standard didn't exist...

 

Well guess what? It does exist!

 

Of course, you are right. Such an unfortunate double standard does exist.

 

But, in the grand scheme of things, does it matter? I can't imagine why anyone, "slut" or otherwise, would want to date someone who didn't respect his or her decisions.

[Mumbles]

I think for the specific case you are asking about .. the men paying bit, its mainly just a cultural hangover from times not all that long ago (really) when women by and large didn't earn an income or not a very large income if they did. Its doubtless linked to the "traditional" coupling model too, where the woman stayed home to have babies and look after home affairs whilst the man worked the world. The further back you go the more reinforced this was. Essentially, women didn't have any money, this was the mans realm. Additionally, and because of this, in a historical traditional courtship, the man had to 'prove', for want of a better word, that he actually did have some money and could look after the woman and a family.

 

I'm not convinced this old traditional norm holds any real present day value, except that there _is_ still a lingering cultural normalcy about it. Whilst change in this regard will eventually beget more change, its a slow process that can, and has, taken generations to get past.

 

As a proof that this isn't just some weird traditional hangover that women collectively cling to, notice when you go anywhere that requires after service payment, like a restaurant, who the waiter will bring to the cheque to... almost 100% of the time, if you don't give him/her a strong signal, the cheque will come to the man. Its deeply embedded in (western) society.

[ThaWholigan]

Of course, you are right. Such an unfortunate double standard does exist.

 

But, in the grand scheme of things, does it matter? I can't imagine why anyone, "slut" or otherwise, would want to date someone who didn't respect his or her decisions.

Good point. Might as well tell anyone who doesn't like it to eat a dick and die .

[Esoteric Elf]

The girl and guy both, on the count of 3, throw money on the table in $1 bills as fast as they can. Each pays what was able to be thrown on the table. Fair enough.

[StanMusial]

Thanks to everyone for responding.

 

In response to "What is the issue?", I've generally had poor luck at dating. I often hear "Be yourself" and "be confident", followed by specific suggestions that don't jibe with my gut. I've tried paying for dates and so on, but it has felt like I was being fake, and it has often led either to me getting rejected, or to a dating experience that hasn't been a lot of fun.

 

Thanks.

 

Paying for a date is not why you got rejected.

 

If you ask a girl out, you should pay.

[Keenly]

I'll answer the why. Because that's how I was raised and that's how its going to be. If I am on a date with a woman. I am paying. End of story. First date... ten year anniversary, doesn't matter. If you don't like it don't go on any dates with me haha.

[crude]

I'll answer the why. Because that's how I was raised and that's how its going to be. If I am on a date with a woman. I am paying. End of story. First date... ten year anniversary, doesn't matter. If you don't like it don't go on any dates with me haha.

 

I was raised to be racist, but didn't buy into it. You just leave yourself wide open to be taken advantage of financially.

[normal person]

I'll answer the why. Because that's how I was raised and that's how its going to be. If I am on a date with a woman. I am paying. End of story. First date... ten year anniversary, doesn't matter. If you don't like it don't go on any dates with me haha.

 

I feel like you think this is some ultra-chivalrous knight-in-shining-armor behavior or something, but I think it's quite the opposite. "Because that's how I was raised and that's how it's going to be" is a weak justification. Not everyone was raised on the same terms and to assume that just because you were, everyone else has to follow suit is just ignorant.

 

- What if the person you're with was raised to always pay their way and not have to rely on other people?

- What if the other person wants to pay their way so they don't feel like they owe you anything?

- What if someone wants to pay because they make their own money and they don't want to feel like you're paying out of pity?

 

Saying "because that's the way I was raised" and denying them the right to do so implies that they're somehow "wrong" for having their own opinion or wanting to conduct their own transaction. I know this is the reverse end of the discussion usually had, but if a girl wants to pay her own way, she has every right to.

[Mumbles]

Oh, and there is a lingering 'norm' that if you invite someone to something, particularly food/drink based, then as the inviter, you pay for your invitees.

 

As men are going to be doing most of the 'inviting' given cultural norms in that regard, then chances are you will be paying.

 

Think about how odd it would be for a girl to invite you to a dinner and show, and when you agree and she books, she then puts her hand out for the money ... I'd find that very strange indeed and I'm not sure I've ever come across it.

 

Of course, chances are, particularly early in a courtship, the man will be organising such things and so part of the reason he's paying is that he's the 'man' and part is that he's doing the inviting.

[Mumbles]

One more thing comes to my mind. I've had a few dates over the years where the woman has been very very upfront about paying her half of whatever bill we're receiving. Its not always the case, but 90% of the time this is her giving me a fairly unambiguous signal that she's not viewing the activity as a romantic 'date'. In other words, she's telling me that I'm in the friend zone.

 

I have to watch this one, as its not 100% of cases, but its a sure signal of something and needs (usually) to be explored.

[bac]

You make it sound like society changes with time. In this particular time, that sexual double standard is adhered to by weasels. Many a woman has an active sex life and isn't tarred and feathered. And women now earn good money, and shouldn't expect to be paid for, like it or not. These idiotic double standards only last as long as people are too gutless to say no way and do the right thing.

 

 

How is it even possible to ask a girl out for dinner and expect her to pay?

IMO you should let her know before the dinner that you would like her to pay.

She should be aware of your expectations. Because it changes the dating situation a lot. So, If a man pays, I am fine with any place of his choice. But, If I pay, my desicions about the date and the dinner would be totally different.

[Els]

I feel like you think this is some ultra-chivalrous knight-in-shining-armor behavior or something, but I think it's quite the opposite. "Because that's how I was raised and that's how it's going to be" is a weak justification. Not everyone was raised on the same terms and to assume that just because you were, everyone else has to follow suit is just ignorant.

 

- What if the person you're with was raised to always pay their way and not have to rely on other people?

- What if the other person wants to pay their way so they don't feel like they owe you anything?

- What if someone wants to pay because they make their own money and they don't want to feel like you're paying out of pity?

 

Saying "because that's the way I was raised" and denying them the right to do so implies that they're somehow "wrong" for having their own opinion or wanting to conduct their own transaction. I know this is the reverse end of the discussion usually had, but if a girl wants to pay her own way, she has every right to.

 

Keenly is quite right in this sense though, in that he says, "If you don't like it, don't date me." So if you want to pay, pay, then go your separate ways. He isn't saying that women don't have the right to pay. He's just saying that they aren't compatible with him. It's the same as kaylan wanting a compatible woman who pays half. Neither is wrong, and I don't see either of them throwing out the piss-poor attitudes and blanket generalizations about women that have largely dominated this thread.

 

Seriously, I don't see what's the big deal with this.

[man_in_the_box]

I'm Dutch,

[123321]

I'm really OK with either way but don't make us do impromptu accounting at the table. That's not OK.

[Philosopher]

I don't normally mind paying for dates. However if my date has little or no intention of meeting up again then the bill should be split. Otherwise it feels like you have just been taken advantage of.

[Joan Clyde Parafina]

Some people say that it should be the man, others say it can be both. But most of the time, or in a regular setting, who should really pay?

[Eternal Sunshine]

Always go in expecting to pay for both.

 

You would pay for me. I knew it

[ltjg45]

The male will pay unless shown otherwise.

[ImperfectionisBeauty]

The guy I'm with now pays for everything

[Eternal Sunshine]

They sell fancy feast for two?

 

Is your kitty Tardar Sauce? He is so adorable, just like you

[kaylan]

Girls Ive dated pull their own weight and dont have many expectations of what a man 'should' do. Thats how it ought to be.

[123321]

I'm OK either way, the money isn't the thing really.

[musemaj11]

Men who complain about gold digging women tend to be men with the least gold because wealthy men realize that the fact that women can be bought with money is actually an advantage to them and not something to complain about.

 

Also, the amount you have to pay a woman is in equal proportion to the gap between your physical attractiveness and hers. The uglier you are in comparison to her, the deeper you have to reach into your pocket.