Emilia Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Most men eat more or order more expensive dishes which makes splitting it down the middle not quite fair. Figuring out who pays what at the end of the meal is too messy. It is just easier to pay for the whole thing. I'm not sure I feel comfortable having a woman pay. Still it is silly to justify not paying since he was the one to ask you out when a woman asking a man out almost never happens. I have meals with men all the time and they tend to have a starter while I don't but I wouldn't say they necessarily have more expensive dishes? They often drink beer while I drink wine and that can be more expensive I have not found over the years that men financially consume more in a restaurant than women do. There is no basis for this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Flay Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 A dinner date as a first meeting is kinda weird imo. An activity like bowling or mini golf or something or even coffee would be more appropriate. I wholeheartedly agree! Why would you want to spend $50+ on a date with a person you don't even know yet. I thought that, at least where I come from, lavish dinners are reserved for family, close friends, people in a stable relationship and business partners who net you a lot of profit. I would find it very awkward to sit with someone until dessert is finished. What if you don't like the person, or he/she is psychotic? There's no way to excuse yourself early without coming off as a total ass. Why do you feel the need to boast your wealth (which you probably don't even have) and buy somebody's affection with a copious dinner? Or is this an American thing? Usually you need to date a lot before you find a suitable partner. It takes quite a big income to handle a steady stream of dinner dates. So I suggest the same thing as veggirl above: keep it simple, keep it cheap. The best dates I've had never cost more than $5 for the both of us. Some were even free because we went for a stroll along the river bank, or cycling in the country. Also, if it's a cheap date, there won't be any bitter recriminations and hurt pride. Principles are easier to swallow when only a few dollars are in question. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I guess there might be some cultural differences. Many times a man will get a large' date=' expensive steak while his date will get a non-steak entree that comes in at a lot less. I haven't seen many women go for the big seafood platters which could equal his. If a woman does go for a steak it is a smaller, cheaper cut. Men are also much likelier to order an appetizer and a dessert which if they share it she'll only nibble at it.[/quote'] I think alcoholic drinks tend to be the priciest items on the menu though I do think women tend to have a more expensive taste. I think it evens out. Link to post Share on other sites
pyramid Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 On first dates, usually I barely have to reach for my purse before the guy says "no, I got it." After that I try to get into an every-other-date kind of thing, but I've dated guys who refuse to let me pay at all. I have a hard time with that, honestly, and not because I feel like they expect anything. I had one guy say, as he picked up the check on our first lunch date, "may I take care of this?" and I said yes, thank you. I love that it eliminated the awkwardness. Link to post Share on other sites
jcm101 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Girl and I were dating for a good near 2 months. Nothing official. I started to get turned off after taking her out about 4 times to eat. First date I payed, and I expected too. She didn't offer to pay or anything, but I had no problems with it. I asked her out and it was our first. Each time I asked her out btw, so im not sure if you women take this into account for offering to split or not. Second time, just sat there when bill came not saying anything. 3rd time breakfast, same thing and then 4th time took her to a decently price place and nothing, same thing, just sat there. Actually not even sure if she said thank you this time. Would this be a turn off for you guys? Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Flay Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Actually not even sure if she said thank you this time. Would this be a turn off for you guys? Of course. Few things turn me off more than a sense of entitlement. The same goes for guys who expect sex. People of all races and ages should learn more humility when interacting with each other. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 3rd time breakfast, same thing and then 4th time took her to a decently price place and nothing, same thing, just sat there. If you asked her out, expect to pay for all of it regardless of any unspoken rule or societal implication. If she wants to split it, great, but certainly don't count on her to do so. This is just the way it is for guys and we just have to accept it. Every girl is different and you never know who you're dealing with. Although if she asked you out, she should probably be splitting it. Actually not even sure if she said thank you this time. This would be a turn off. Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 ^We dont have to expect anything. And we as men dont have to allow this behavior either. I wish more of my gender would grow a pair. Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 ^We dont have to expect anything. And we as men dont have to allow this behavior either. I wish more of my gender would grow a pair. Technically you shouldn't "have" to expect to if you live in a fantasy world, but in reality if you want it to go well, I think you'd be foolish not to. I was talking about the realities of the situation without putting my personal opinion into it because my opinion is irrelevant. Yes, it would be nice for a girl to pay her way... However, whether or not you/I/anyone thinks she should pay half isn't going to change the fact that there will still be plenty of girls who will frown upon a guy for not paying for all of it. If you want to insist that she pay half, you're going to look like a douche and turn her off anyways. So I suck it up and pay the additional $10-$60, I don't care. That's just how it is and I accept that. My opinion alone isn't going to change a custom imbedded deep into American society. I've got a pair but I've also got a brain too, and I know it's stupid to enter a losing battle like this. I expect to pay, and complaining about having to pay is probably going to "cost" me more than her half of the bill, so I'm not going to bother. If I know I can't win, I'm going to minimize my losses. Try to "not allow this behavior," as you say, and see what happens. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
J_L_C Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I guess there might be some cultural differences. Many times a man will get a large' date=' expensive steak while his date will get a non-steak entree that comes in at a lot less[/b']. I haven't seen many women go for the big seafood platters which could equal his. If a woman does go for a steak it is a smaller, cheaper cut. Men are also much likelier to order an appetizer and a dessert which if they share it she'll only nibble at it. This is funny because he actually did get a steak dinner, while I had a dinner-sized salad. It was a pretty significant price difference yet it still went down the middle. Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) Technically you shouldn't "have" to expect to if you live in a fantasy world, but in reality if you want it to go well, I think you'd be foolish not to. I was talking about the realities of the situation without putting my personal opinion into it because my opinion is irrelevant. Yes, it would be nice for a girl to pay her way... However, whether or not you/I/anyone thinks she should pay half isn't going to change the fact that there will still be plenty of girls who will frown upon a guy for not paying for all of it. If you want to insist that she pay half, you're going to look like a douche and turn her off anyways. So I suck it up and pay the additional $10-$60, I don't care. That's just how it is and I accept that. My opinion alone isn't going to change a custom imbedded deep into American society. I've got a pair but I've also got a brain too, and I know it's stupid to enter a losing battle like this. I expect to pay, and complaining about having to pay is probably going to "cost" me more than her half of the bill, so I'm not going to bother. If I know I can't win, I'm going to minimize my losses. Try to "not allow this behavior," as you say, and see what happens.You wanna know what my reality has been? My reality has shown me that this is not a problem in my dating life. I date women who are compatible with me on this front. Or they like me enough not to give much a damn about this.This is funny because he actually did get a steak dinner, while I had a dinner-sized salad. It was a pretty significant price difference yet it still went down the middle. This is where Ill say the dude is classless. I dont rip my friends off like this, and definitely wouldnt rip a date off like this. I assumed you guys just got separate checks....which is what I usually think of when going dutch. I never expect someone to catch a portion of my bill unless we've established that Ill get a portion of their bill later in another part of the date. Edited March 22, 2013 by kaylan 1 Link to post Share on other sites
clia Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Most men eat more or order more expensive dishes which makes splitting it down the middle not quite fair. I find a lot of truth in this, but obviously it depends on the people involved, what they like to eat and drink, and the restaurant. Certainly at a steak restaurant my date's entree is usually almost double in price to mine, since they get a bigger cut of meat. Also, I'm sometimes apt to get an appetizer and side salad or soup as my meal, while my date may get a full, more expensive entree along with salad/appetizer/soup. It may be that I just date guys who eat a lot, though... This is funny because he actually did get a steak dinner, while I had a dinner-sized salad. It was a pretty significant price difference yet it still went down the middle. The plot thickens! OP, I wouldn't have offered to pay on the first date (unless you knew you didn't want to see him again), but I find it in poor taste that he took you up on your offer. My view is only solidified knowing that he ordered an entree that was so much more expensive and split the bill in half. That is a huge pet peeve of mine unless I'm with friends/family who I go out with regularly, where I know it all works itself out. I can't stand going out with people I don't know well who order a bunch of crap and expensive drinks that they want and then at the end say "It's probably easiest just to split the bill..." Actually, we all have calculators in our phones now, so it isn't that hard to figure out what we all owe, thanks. (sorry for the vent...) I'm curious if you two have set up a second date yet? (I'm wondering if he accepted your offer to help pay because he wasn't interested in going out again?) Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) You wanna know what my reality has been? My reality has shown me that this is not a problem in my dating life. I date women who are compatible with me on this front. Or they like me enough not to give much a damn about this. You and I are a lot alike... I love girls who are similarly reasonable. But finding one isn't quite as easy as you make it sound. If that's been your reality, then you're a lucky guy. No matter how cool a girl seems before you take her out, you can't ask her ahead of time if she's going to pay half. I recently went out bar hopping with the most seemingly reasonable, low key, down to Earth girl I can imagine. That's exactly the kind I like. I paid for all the drinks all night, no mention of it from her. I'm not angry or surprised because there's that ubiquitous expectation of me, as a guy, to do so. What am I gonna say, "How about you pay for a few rounds?" 'Probably wouldn't work out too well for me. There is a bit of a curveball, and I'm not trying to be crass, but I have a lot of money for a 26 year old and I know a lot of people my age are pinching pennies. I'm not flashy about it and I live well below my means. But everyone knows it and I've sometimes felt that girls I'm with (and other people too) have this notion that it's just understood that I can and will pay for a lot of stuff because the money is seemingly insignificant to me. It's rarely stuff like "Will you buy me this?" (I don't bother with those girls) but it's a lot of picking up 100% of the checks/cabs/etc without discussion and whatnot. And I implicate myself in the whole process by always saying "It's cool, I've got this" because I feel like I have to. The thing is, there's usually no insisting or even discussion about it beyond that. What am I going to do? Be the jerk who asks a girl if she's paying half when she's struggling to pay rent? There's no easy way about it. I just expect to pay. It definitely clouds the water of this whole debate, but it's also probably why I don't really feel the need to fight the trend. I'd just like to know what's going on in a girl's head when I'm paying for everything. I'm not saying I need the girl to pay her half, because I don't. But her feeling that paying half is the right thing to do regardless of finances is a quality I'd really like her to have. Edited March 22, 2013 by normal person 1 Link to post Share on other sites
kaylan Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 (edited) ^However, plenty of girls arent struggling to make ends meet and still expect the guy to pull most of the financial weight even if he cant afford to do it by himself. Why would the girls you seem to go after care about pulling their weight if youre always willing to pay for their stuff? And yes, you do suggest that they get the next round. After youve bought a couple, simply say "babe can you get the next round?". Its never been an issue for me. Hell, Ive had girls let me sip on mix drinks theyve bought with them. And I didnt ask either. Edited March 22, 2013 by kaylan Link to post Share on other sites
GravityMan Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) Edit: Nevermind...misread the OP. Edited March 23, 2013 by GravityMan Link to post Share on other sites
KatZee Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Just caught this gem on FB and had to share... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=549993998357013&set=a.293411780681904.74193.288501767839572&type=1&theater :lmao::lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
Sanitarium Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 this has to be the dumbest thread I've ever read, on any website anywhere. OP offered to pitch in and then was outraged that the man accepted her offer Next time, just tell him thank you when he pays for it. How is this difficult? Link to post Share on other sites
Sanitarium Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 You and I are a lot alike... I love girls who are similarly reasonable. But finding one isn't quite as easy as you make it sound. If that's been your reality, then you're a lucky guy. No matter how cool a girl seems before you take her out, you can't ask her ahead of time if she's going to pay half. I recently went out bar hopping with the most seemingly reasonable, low key, down to Earth girl I can imagine. That's exactly the kind I like. I paid for all the drinks all night, no mention of it from her. I'm not angry or surprised because there's that ubiquitous expectation of me, as a guy, to do so. What am I gonna say, "How about you pay for a few rounds?" 'Probably wouldn't work out too well for me. There is a bit of a curveball, and I'm not trying to be crass, but I have a lot of money for a 26 year old and I know a lot of people my age are pinching pennies. I'm not flashy about it and I live well below my means. But everyone knows it and I've sometimes felt that girls I'm with (and other people too) have this notion that it's just understood that I can and will pay for a lot of stuff because the money is seemingly insignificant to me. It's rarely stuff like "Will you buy me this?" (I don't bother with those girls) but it's a lot of picking up 100% of the checks/cabs/etc without discussion and whatnot. And I implicate myself in the whole process by always saying "It's cool, I've got this" because I feel like I have to. The thing is, there's usually no insisting or even discussion about it beyond that. What am I going to do? Be the jerk who asks a girl if she's paying half when she's struggling to pay rent? There's no easy way about it. I just expect to pay. It definitely clouds the water of this whole debate, but it's also probably why I don't really feel the need to fight the trend. I'd just like to know what's going on in a girl's head when I'm paying for everything. I'm not saying I need the girl to pay her half, because I don't. But her feeling that paying half is the right thing to do regardless of finances is a quality I'd really like her to have. If you have a lot of money for you age, then you should pay for everything. I don't see why that's an issue. 50 bucks to a girl is probably 5 bucks to you in terms of money importance (or however you want to express it) I say this being in the same boat as you are. I make a lot of money for my age and will pay for everything when it comes to dating Link to post Share on other sites
Phoe Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I don't understand this at all. A woman who says "PLEASE LET ME PAY!" and then gets mad when the guy agrees. Sounds like such a mind game to me. Why play games?? You're mad that he agreed, but it's acceptable for you to play mind games with the man? When women act like this, how is a man supposed to know whether he's supposed to do EXACTLY as she says, or do the OPPOSITE of what she says? Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't... Sad =/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Terracotta Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I always, always offer to pay on a date and I think it's fair enough if I'm taken up on it. I think it's extremely rude to not offer and just expect the guy to pay. With my boyfriend, he paid for the first 3 dates (where I offered to pay every time) and now we just alternate and even then he secretly tries to take care of the bill when it's my turn, and it's only when I insist he lets me. I love taking care of my boyfriend, it makes me happy, and he feels the same way. Now with your situation OP, I think it's a bit disingenuous to offer to pay without actually having any genuine sentiment behind the offer. I don't think you should offer if you're going to punish the guy by marking him down for it if he takes your offer up. I do think it's rude that he ordered a meal significantly more expensive than your meal and then split it equally. That is tacky IMO, especially on a first date. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
J_L_C Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I find a lot of truth in this, but obviously it depends on the people involved, what they like to eat and drink, and the restaurant. Certainly at a steak restaurant my date's entree is usually almost double in price to mine, since they get a bigger cut of meat. Also, I'm sometimes apt to get an appetizer and side salad or soup as my meal, while my date may get a full, more expensive entree along with salad/appetizer/soup. It may be that I just date guys who eat a lot, though... The plot thickens! OP, I wouldn't have offered to pay on the first date (unless you knew you didn't want to see him again), but I find it in poor taste that he took you up on your offer. My view is only solidified knowing that he ordered an entree that was so much more expensive and split the bill in half. That is a huge pet peeve of mine unless I'm with friends/family who I go out with regularly, where I know it all works itself out. I can't stand going out with people I don't know well who order a bunch of crap and expensive drinks that they want and then at the end say "It's probably easiest just to split the bill..." Actually, we all have calculators in our phones now, so it isn't that hard to figure out what we all owe, thanks. (sorry for the vent...) I'm curious if you two have set up a second date yet? (I'm wondering if he accepted your offer to help pay because he wasn't interested in going out again?) He did ask me out again actually, but now I'm not quite sure what to do! Link to post Share on other sites
J_L_C Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I don't understand this at all. A woman who says "PLEASE LET ME PAY!" and then gets mad when the guy agrees. Sounds like such a mind game to me. Why play games?? You're mad that he agreed, but it's acceptable for you to play mind games with the man? When women act like this, how is a man supposed to know whether he's supposed to do EXACTLY as she says, or do the OPPOSITE of what she says? Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't... Sad =/ When I asked him if I could "please pitch in", I wasn't assuming he was going to split the bill down the middle seeing as his items accounted for 3/4 of the bill. Link to post Share on other sites
ja123 Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Honestly, OP, I understand what the nay-sayers are pointing out: that you did offer to pay. But, I don't agree. A woman offering to pay on the first date (with the exception if she knows she doesn't want a second date, in which case she should insist) is largely etiquette. The man refusing her offer to pay on the first date is etiquette also. I think it's decent etiquette, too, and that's how things should be. (I'm not talking about subsequent dates, but the first one.) I'm not sure with what degree of fevour you said, "Please let me pay." But, as someone pointed out, he might have wanted to respect your wishes. HOWEVER, the fact that he split the bill down the middle when he had a way more expensive meal (steak compared to your salad!) is very rude and selfish, IMO. I wouldn't except that from a friend, not to mention a potential love interest. PLUS, he texted under the table twice for 3-4 minutes?!! I wouldn't see him again. Next!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Uncle Indy Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 2 years in my relationship I let my girlfriend pay for both of us ~3 times and I felt horrible about it. We started to split the tab near the end of the relationship, but for 1 year 4-8 months, I paid every time all the time. Just the way I am though. I don't believe in letting the woman pay. Link to post Share on other sites
iKING Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 If I can't afford a date, I can't afford to be dating. I always pay, but if people want to do 50/50 that's fair to some extent I suppose. Personally money means very little to me. Link to post Share on other sites
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