Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[StanMusial]

There is a fine line between what you describe and one sided relationships where one person is selfish. There are relationships when one person is doing hardly anything you describe yet the other person does it (and is expected to do it too). It has happened to me several times and Ive observed it in other relationships several times.

 

I remember when I first read "The 5 Languages of Love" and I dumped my boyfriend the next week because he literally did none of the 5 languages of love but made comments when I cut back on one (of the many) languages I used.

 

Crude- I cant take you seriously because if a woman did all the things you described you would still treat her like chattel. Thats the problem. I had a guy friend that complained women dont pay for themselves on dates and then he met one that did (that had a good job) and he was still bitching when she hadnt put out by date 5.

 

I def contribute beyond the initial stages of dating- suggesting date ideas, contacting first, initiating plans, doing stuff for him...some guys will run away with that and get lazy.

 

Ugh. I never heard of that book but that sounds shabby. Did you tell him you broke up with him due to a book's advice?

[soccerrprp]

He is definitely a selfish, bitter jack-wagon!

[runningfar]

I wouldn't want to date anyone who was

 

1. careless with their money (frivolous purchases)

2. selfish

3. prone to complaining about imaginary slights (paying for a woman)

 

Sounds like he was all of these.

[Seductive]

Yep. He never

-praised me at all (only put me down) which is verbal love

-he was not affectionate which is physical love. when we were physical (me initiating) he wanted quickies and bitched about having to go down on me and finger me

-he never bought me gifts. for my birthday he went out last minute and got a 15 dollar necklace and he forgot to get me a christmas present due to his "tennis playing tournament"

-he never did things for me but expected me to cook for him all the time and sometimes run errands which is acts of service

- he expected me to cater to his schedule and watch sports with him all the time even though at the time I both worked and went to grad school full time. He never wanted to do anything I wanted to (quality time)

 

I had been feeling he had been too selfish for me for awhile and other people told me he was a selfish person but reading that book put into words what he was lacking

 

 

I would say this particular man I was dating was very sweet overalll, until things crumbled towards the end. But, there were signs that I chose to ignore. He also didn't buy me a birthday gift. He didn't want me to have "alone time", which is important to me. He would beg me to drive 45 minutes to his apartment every weekend. There was nothing special on our one year anniversary either. He did compliment me frequently, show loyalty, was protective, and saw me as a serious girlfriend (which kept me hanging around).

 

I'm not a materialistic person where I'm expecting lavish dresses every week, but what harm is it to get something special on a certain occasion? It's not the gift or money, but the thought behind it that counts. I think many of us wouldn't dare show empty-handed if it was our mother's birthday.

[dasein]

The other issues in the relationship are separate issues, but what it boils down to on the money issue alone IMO is, "a man who spends money on himself instead of on me is being selfish." Sorry, that's how it reads to me, and I think that's a bad, outdated attitude for anyone to have about someone else's money regardless of gender, circumstances, rationalizations or dynamic.

 

I know way too many couples where "her money is her money and his money is her money too" so will disagree with the thread.

[sweetkiwi]

I have paid for dates. I have paid for drinks. I've bought countless gifts. Shoot I've even paid rent/utilities when my ex was out of work. AND groceries. Money comes and goes and honestly I prefer people who don't make a fuss about it whether they have it or not.

 

There are very few women who expect a man to pay for literally everything. And those ladies better be incredible lays or else I wouldn't even consider that as a man.

[somedude81]

Just because he's the man, doesn't mean he should have to pay for everything.

 

If she has a job, then why is it OK for a woman to spend her money on herself and is not expected to chip in?

 

I do agree that the man should pay for the first date, but that also means he gets to decide what they do.

 

Any woman who expects a man to spend a lot of money on a first date is nothing more than a gold-digger.

[StanMusial]

Yep. He never

-praised me at all (only put me down) which is verbal love

-he was not affectionate which is physical love. when we were physical (me initiating) he wanted quickies and bitched about having to go down on me and finger me

-he never bought me gifts. for my birthday he went out last minute and got a 15 dollar necklace and he forgot to get me a christmas present due to his "tennis playing tournament"

-he never did things for me but expected me to cook for him all the time and sometimes run errands which is acts of service

- he expected me to cater to his schedule and watch sports with him all the time even though at the time I both worked and went to grad school full time. He never wanted to do anything I wanted to (quality time)

 

I had been feeling he had been too selfish for me for awhile and other people told me he was a selfish person but reading that book put into words what he was lacking

 

He sounds like a major league A-hole. I just wonder what else are in these books and articles and whatnot.

 

Just to be on the safe side, I'm going down to my gf's shop on Thursday and I'm going to steal all the Cosmopolitan's and other mags I can find.

[Seductive]

I have paid for dates. I have paid for drinks. I've bought countless gifts. Shoot I've even paid rent/utilities when my ex was out of work. AND groceries. Money comes and goes and honestly I prefer people who don't make a fuss about it whether they have it or not.

 

There are very few women who expect a man to pay for literally everything. And those ladies better be incredible lays or else I wouldn't even consider that as a man.

 

 

I have paid for drinks, concert tickets, amusement park tickets, rental cars when we were vacationing and groceries before, so I don't see what the issue is here with me. All what I'm concerned about is a man complaining about not having enough money, but then spending a large amount of money. If you don't have money, then why blow it off?

 

I have also offered to cook fancy meals for my man, which I think is a kind gesture. I've given sweet cards. I've bought sexy lingerie for him to enjoy. I've given soothing body rubs. I've offered to cleaned up his place numerous times. I've also been told I'm a giving and selfless lover in bed. You can spoil your man in other non-financial ways.

 

If a woman demands the man to pay for everything and doesn't do anything nice in return, then that's an unhealthy relationship.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Seductive

[dasein]

what about the outdated attitude that a man is entitled to a woman's body after so many dates?

 

If that attitude actually exists anywhere, sure it's bad too. What's your point, that bad attitudes and behavior justify other bad attitudes and behavior? Not much of an argument. "Billy sneaked in the cookie jar so I can too?"

[Seductive]

Just because he's the man, doesn't mean he should have to pay for everything.

 

If she has a job, then why is it OK for a woman to spend her money on herself and is not expected to chip in?

 

I do agree that the man should pay for the first date, but that also means he gets to decide what they do.

 

Any woman who expects a man to spend a lot of money on a first date is nothing more than a gold-digger.

 

Who said we are expecting a man to spend a LOT of money on a first date? Spending a lot of money on fancy places is financially unwise, IMO. The most romantic date I've had was when a lover got low-cost ingredients from Trader Joe's and cooked me my favorite dinner. We had wine at my apartment and just talked. Do you understand how it's the the thought and gesture that counts?

 

There's a huge difference between a man that just wants to treat a woman through paying every now and then and being a gold digger thatn wants to wipe his account clean.

 

If it's my friend's birthday, I'm paying. No question about it. I would die if I had to ask her to pay on her own birthday.

[somedude81]

Who said we are expecting a man to spend a LOT of money on a first date? Spending a lot of money on fancy places is financially unwise, IMO. The most romantic date I've had was when a lover got low-cost ingredients from Trader Joe's and cooked me my favorite dinner. We had wine at my apartment and just talked. Do you understand how it's the the thought and gesture that counts?

That's awesome that you were happy with that and enjoyed it so much.

 

Was it a first/second date or much later on?

 

Still there are women that expect to be wined and dined from the very beginning. They are the ones I was referring to.

 

What I don't understand is the getting upset when he spends money on himself. He likes to spend money on things that make him happy.

 

Actually, the more I read about it, it just seems that he had poor money management skills.

[dasein]

If a woman demands the man to pay for everything and doesn't do anything nice in return, then that's an unhealthy relationship.

 

Not necessarily disagreeing with the above totally, but if anyone, regardless of gender, expects their SO to pay -more-, not for everything, just -more-, and expects that nonmonetary things they contribute entitle them thus, then that's an unhealthy relationship dynamic in itself. People in relationships do nice things for each other in back and forth ways, but to decide that one doesn't have to pay as much money and can just "work it off in trade" in other ways is presumptuous unless that is what the couple has agreed mutually, not unilaterally.

[Seductive]

That's awesome that you were happy with that and enjoyed it so much.

 

Was it a first/second date or much later on?

 

Still there are women that expect to be wined and dined from the very beginning. They are the ones I was referring to.

 

What I don't understand is the getting upset when he spends money on himself. He likes to spend money on things that make him happy.

 

Actually, the more I read about it, it just seems that he had poor money management skills.

 

 

This date occurred later on when we developed stronger feelings for each other. Just as I like to cook a meal for a man, a man cooking a meal for me makes me feel special. As for gifts, a man giving a handwritten card or lending me his favorite t-shirt is acceptable and thoughtful.

 

As far as getting upset over a man that spends money on himself, it's concerning as to what he would be like with his wife and kids. Sure, everyone has the right to pamper themselves. But, what if they spend their entire paycheck on themselves, and have nothing left over for the kids or mortgage? What if they tell their partner, "You take care of the kids' medical expenses, because I bought all of this stuff for myself."

[Seductive]

Not necessarily disagreeing with the above totally, but if anyone, regardless of gender, expects their SO to pay -more-, not for everything, just -more-, and expects that nonmonetary things they contribute entitle them thus, then that's an unhealthy relationship dynamic in itself. People in relationships do nice things for each other in back and forth ways, but to decide that one doesn't have to pay as much money and can just "work it off in trade" in other ways is presumptuous unless that is what the couple has agreed mutually, not unilaterally.

 

 

True. The couple has to talk that out.

 

The relationships that work best with the man paying is when the man truly wants to do it from his heart. I will agree that forcing a man to pay or arguing with him about it doesn't work. If two people have different views on money, I feel it's best to call it quits. As someone said, how one handles money can be ruin a marriage.

[miss_jaclynrae]

Nope.

 

 

Never.

Has nothing to do with him not wanting to pay, more-so his selfishness.

THAT is a huge red flag.

[fmaze]

never too late!

 

here is the best solution:

 

PrivyDate :: Home

[crude]

I expect to pay, and complaining about having to pay is probably going to "cost" me more than her half of the bill, so I'm not going to bother. If I know I can't win, I'm going to minimize my losses. Try to "not allow this behavior," as you say, and see what happens.

 

Are you referring to sex? Because men actually marry women who have the sense of entitlement, and it costs much more than $10-$60 to support them for the rest of their lives. Women who expect to be paid for are auditioning for marriage, and the "lucky" winner gets to pay for as long as he lives. And all the statistics I've read lately say that single women now make more money than their male counterparts, so unless you're just in it to get laid, don't fall for a cheap, selfish user with little moral decency and character.

[normal person]

Are you referring to sex? Because men actually marry women who have the sense of entitlement, and it costs much more than $10-$60 to support them for the rest of their lives. Women who expect to be paid for are auditioning for marriage, and the "lucky" winner gets to pay for as long as he lives. And all the statistics I've read lately say that single women now make more money than their male counterparts, so unless you're just in it to get laid, don't fall for a cheap, selfish user with little moral decency and character.

 

My "people picker" is world class and I can detect a liar/gold digger from miles away. Pre-screening does a world of good.

 

I wasn't referring to sex when I mentioned the cost, personally I only take out girls with whom I can see myself with long term. The "cost" in my eyes is how she's going to view you after you expect her to pay for half. So generally speaking, I think a guy is less likely to get whatever it is he's after if he expects a girl to pay or doesn't offer. Her opinion of him is probably going nowhere but down after that.

 

So hypothetically if you like her and you already spend $50 on dinner for yourself, you might as well just suck it up and pay the $50 for her food too. The reason being if you expect her to pay it then the whole effort will probably all be in vain anyways. You can either spend the whole $100 and have her not think any less of you (and possibly like you) OR expect her to pay and let her think you're a loser (not certain to happen but a very likely scenario). Then you just spent $50 on a night out with a girl who won't see you again.

 

So my advice to guys in the US/Canada (not sure about other cultures) is to just expect to pay. If she wants to split, great. If later on she wants to start incurring some of the expenses, awesome. You found a cool, reasonable girl. But don't suggest or expect her to, it needs to happen on her own volition.

[pbjbear]

I havent dated for the past 7 months, but when I did I always tried to pay for myself, especially for OLD dates.

Why? Because I find most men have an exchange ratio in the back of their mind where after so many paid dates they feel entitled to sex and get snippy/pissy if they dont get it. Its usually not that many dates either.

 

Nofool4u, many women have that same problem except with sex. Except when we write off a guy who is sleeping around when we are simply dating we are called judgmental.

[readytodate123]

I am a woman but I don't really understand why men should always pay for a first date. Who started this "trend", where did it come from, and what does it imply about our society? Do you think that men should continue to pay for dinner even after a first date?

I've always had this awkward moment when it comes to paying the check at a restaurant. Is it just me? I feel kind of guilty...

Thanks for your feedbacks and answers!

Edited May 5, 2013 by readytodate123

[ChessPieceFace]

You seriously have to ask this question?

 

Rewind 50-100 years, look at the gender roles and figure it out. Nowadays, not nearly as clear cut.

 

I doubt there are easy cookie-cutter answers to this question because it would depend on the expectations of the 2 people involved. Some people will be compatible on who pays and when, and some won't. But I will say that when girls post on here whining about how the guy didn't pay for everything all the time, it just makes me shake my head.

[fortyninethousand322]

I am a woman but I don't really understand why men should always pay for a first date. Who started this "trend", where did it come from, and what does it imply about our society?

 

Well, it all began on July 29th 100,127 B.C. (or B.C.E. if you're so inclined). There was a man named John and he invited a local woman named Sally to a social gathering at a food and beverage establishment.

 

Sally was supposed to pay for her own meal and John would pay for his own. But, on the way to the "date" someone stole Sally's gold pouch and she had no money to pay. John still wanted to enjoy a nice time with her so he offered to pay.

 

It's a copycat world, so obviously others took the idea and decided it would be great for men to pay for dates. And thus the tradition began. All by accident. As most things are.

 

The above story may or may not be true. I don't know, I wasn't there...

[readytodate123]

Yeah, it makes sense, though the world has changed now, women have more power than they had before. Why do guys still have to pay for everything all the time when they are not even wealthy? I think many women take advantage of men by going on "many" first dates. It's unfair!

[melaniechung292]

I am a woman but I don't really understand why men should always pay for a first date. Who started this "trend", where did it come from, and what does it imply about our society? Do you think that men should continue to pay for dinner even after a first date?

I've always had this awkward moment when it comes to paying the check at a restaurant. Is it just me? I feel kind of guilty...

Thanks for your feedbacks and answers!

I recommend you read the post on why men should still pay for a first date in a sociology perspective from a blogger here:

 

Date Advice by Jeannie: Who should pay for a date? Mystery of Gender Equality and Dating Bills

 

It discusses why men would still have to pay for a first date (or even second or third) and how gender inequality contributes to this phenomenon. Basically, every other guy is doing it so if you don't do it, women will hate you and gossip about it to their friends and family as if you are a loser. LOL