Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[oriole man]

I can understand a woman wanting to be treated like a princess but will a woman treat a man like a prince in return? Does the queen have a king or just some lowly servant doing her bidding? I am just curious as to what exactly a man gets out of this.

she won't get treated like any princess until she treats me like a prince.

[Treasa]

What does being treated like a princess even mean?

 

I often pay for others, I open or hold open doors for others, I pay compliments to others and listen to them and remember things they tell me....does that make me a prince? A decent friend?

[oriole man]

What does being treated like a princess even mean?

 

I often pay for others, I open or hold open doors for others, I pay compliments to others and listen to them and remember things they tell me....does that make me a prince? A decent friend?

watch a disney movie and you will find out, but come on you already know.

[aussie sam]

The average earnings of a U.S. man these days is lower than the average earnings of a U.S. woman so I would make the guess that you got a bit too entitled for your own good.

 

I would tend to disagree with this statement... based on that fact that it is ENTIRELY UNTRUE. Whilst the gender pay gap has slowly been getting better, in the USA the average woman's wage is still only around 80% of a man's average wage.

 

I really like the fact that everyone has different mating and dating habits and beliefs. I personally feel uncomfortable trying to seduce women by spending money, but I can understand the American dating etiquette too.

[123321]

I would tend to disagree with this statement... based on that fact that it is ENTIRELY UNTRUE. Whilst the gender pay gap has slowly been getting better, in the USA the average woman's wage is still only around 80% of a man's average wage.

 

For the same job, women get paid the same or a little more, however you are correct; women and men don't tend to put in equal time in equal jobs and therefore men do statistically take home more.

 

My view is simple; If she asks, she can expect to pay, otherwise if I ask, I will pay. Since men tend to do the asking, men end up paying. Simple.

[crude]

Men can ask a woman out and pay for the first date, then simply say "if you'd like to go out again, it's your turn to ask, plan, and pay. Taking turns each doing our share is fair."

 

 

"Forget equality for women, the fairer sex is on pace to outrun men when it comes to making money.

In remarkable shift from even a decade ago, the majority of working wives will out-earn their husbands in the next generation, according to Time magazine's cover story this week.

it's not just married women who are breadwinning. In the majority of U.S. metro areas, single women with no children in their 20s outearned their male peers, according to Time's story. In Dallas, for example, a 20-something woman makes $1.18 to a man's $1."

 

 

 

Income Gap Closing: Women On Pace To Outearn Men

[serial muse]

I've looked at a condo owning woman's budget. She goes out to fancy restaurants 2 times a week (2x$75), eats at cheaper restaurants twice a week (2x$15), gets 2 mini-trips a year (2x$300), and 1 major vacation ($1200), all paid for by the chumps she goes out with, so not in her budget even though those are things she wants to do, man or not. That adds up to over $11,500 a year, including gas she never needs to get because the men are her chauffeurs. $11,500 a year pays for a $165,000 mortgage, give or take. More than enough for a place of her own.

 

There's a word for this particular brand of made-up numbers bullshxt, and it's "proofiness". Sounds a lot more convincing when you slap a bunch of numbers you made up on the spot on a hypothetical story about a person who doesn't exist to prove a nonsense trend. But at the end of the day, it's still just a bunch of overcooked crap, and you know it. Nobody's fooled by made-up numbers, friend. You can spout 'em all day long and it's still transparent.

 

Oh, and as for this:

 

Obviously you haven't heard about this woman.

 

 

Apparently her and her room mates was using men for free meals. They agreed to only on dates with each man only 5 times then disappear.

 

This Young Woman Scored $1,200 A Month In Fancy Dinners Using Match.com - Business Insider

 

Well, I think I'll call you on your bullshxt, too. Hey! I found a news story about a baaaaad man, I think I'll assume that all men are like this, shall I? Good plan, right? There's nothing over the top or irrational about that. Here it is, for science.

 

Arizona man kills wife over fears he gave her HIV, police say - CBS News

 

Ugh, you people and your gender wars. Get real.

[Woggle]

I don't have an issue with women who prefer a traditional relationship. People want what they want but when you have some people saying that it should always be this way and that a man should always pay it comes across the same way men do when they try to forced a 1950s role on a woman. There was one thread where the OP insisted that a woman should always take a man's name and understandably the women in that thread took issue with it. That is the way many men see this issue.

[daisybuchanan55]

Totally and 100% agree with edgygirl here. I really do believe it's a biological thing. Women naturally want a man to "take care of things" so she can be free to have the babies. It goes back to caveman times, like it or not.

 

Very interesting to hear the varying cultural perspectives. I never knew that in Europe dating etiquette was much more "equal." Remind me not to move to Europe!! That would drive me bananas.

 

Someone asked what a man gets out of it. Well, I'll tell you what, as a more "traditional" girl who also happens to have a great career. Ironically I think many men would LOVE to date a girl who dresses and acts like I do, simply because I'm very traditional in some senses but also very modern when it comes to my career.

 

I LOVE cooking for my boyfriends and do it regularly. I love decorating and I have had many men tell me my house is incredibly comfortable and pleasant to hang out in because of the feminine touches I take time to add, like scented candles, a stocked fridge, clean towels and sheets etc.

 

I love wearing dresses and looking nice. I never go out at night in flats; always heels.

 

When there's a big game on I like making tons of snacks and getting the party set up for my man and his friends. It just makes me happy!

 

When it comes to sex, I have a high sex drive and I am pretty open to anything. Use your imagination. I'm very enthusiastic.

 

If I see a cool shirt I'll buy it for my boyfriend. If he's had a hard day I will make him his favorite meal. I'll go out of my way REGULARLY to do things like replace socks and underwear. I've hired my boyfriends maids.

 

When we're out in public I defer to him so he can feel like "the man." I don't nag him about directions when he's driving. I let him protect me from weirdos and walk on the street side. I let him hold open doors and choose wines.

 

All this and I have a GREAT career, make plenty of money and can take care of myself. I don't rely on a man to pay my rent but I do I allow him to feel like a king in the relationship? YES.

 

I'd say I treat my boyfriends wonderfully. So...what does he get out of being chivalrous and picking up the bill? A well-dressed, feminine, intelligent girlfriend who cooks for him and gives him a blow job every day.

 

I'd say it's a fair trade-off.

[pteromom]

It died when women demanded equal treatment, you can't have it both ways.

 

Equal treatment doesn't mean that men and women are exactly the same. They aren't.

 

Everyone is different, but in general, women value feeling cared for. It's why we like men with big strong arms, because we feel safe and protected in their embrace. It's why women look for men who are financially secure, so that we can feel safe and secure. And it's why women appreciate men who pay on dates... because we feel CARED FOR. We like that feeling... a man taking care of us.

 

That's a completely different issue than equality. When we are talking about equality, that is about women having equal opportunities in the world for jobs and education and voting and salary. It's about women and men having equal power in the world. And sure, it's about a woman having an equal voice in a relationship and not being controlled. But there is a huge difference between being controlled and being protected and cared for.

 

Equality does not mean men and women are magically the same and value the same things.

[daisybuchanan55]

Oh, and btw, the "equality" argument is dumb because when I refer to equality, I'm talking about the workplace...and I would NEVER expect a male co-worker to treat me like a girlfriend or pay for anything.

[pteromom]

I can understand a woman wanting to be treated like a princess but will a woman treat a man like a prince in return? Does the queen have a king or just some lowly servant doing her bidding? I am just curious as to what exactly a man gets out of this.

 

Of course! A king protects her queen, and a queen nurtures her king.

 

A man buys dinner and opens doors and treats a woman like a lady, and a woman gives her man a backrub after a long day at work and gives him her love and treats him like a man.

 

There is nothing wrong with traditional gender roles if they are appreciated by both partners.... actually, it takes advantage of the nature of men and women. Men are protectors and hunters, and women are nurturers and caretakers. That is naturally who we are, even if a man is a stay-at-home-dad, and even if a woman is a hotshot attorney. We can bend gender roles all we want, but there is something sexy about holding onto them a bit within a romantic relationship.

[Woggle]

Totally and 100% agree with edgygirl here. I really do believe it's a biological thing. Women naturally want a man to "take care of things" so she can be free to have the babies. It goes back to caveman times, like it or not.

 

Very interesting to hear the varying cultural perspectives. I never knew that in Europe dating etiquette was much more "equal." Remind me not to move to Europe!! That would drive me bananas.

 

Someone asked what a man gets out of it. Well, I'll tell you what, as a more "traditional" girl who also happens to have a great career. Ironically I think many men would LOVE to date a girl who dresses and acts like I do, simply because I'm very traditional in some senses but also very modern when it comes to my career.

 

I LOVE cooking for my boyfriends and do it regularly. I love decorating and I have had many men tell me my house is incredibly comfortable and pleasant to hang out in because of the feminine touches I take time to add, like scented candles, a stocked fridge, clean towels and sheets etc.

 

I love wearing dresses and looking nice. I never go out at night in flats; always heels.

 

When there's a big game on I like making tons of snacks and getting the party set up for my man and his friends. It just makes me happy!

 

When it comes to sex, I have a high sex drive and I am pretty open to anything. Use your imagination. I'm very enthusiastic.

 

If I see a cool shirt I'll buy it for my boyfriend. If he's had a hard day I will make him his favorite meal. I'll go out of my way REGULARLY to do things like replace socks and underwear. I've hired my boyfriends maids.

 

When we're out in public I defer to him so he can feel like "the man." I don't nag him about directions when he's driving. I let him protect me from weirdos and walk on the street side. I let him hold open doors and choose wines.

 

All this and I have a GREAT career, make plenty of money and can take care of myself. I don't rely on a man to pay my rent but I do I allow him to feel like a king in the relationship? YES.

 

I'd say I treat my boyfriends wonderfully. So...what does he get out of being chivalrous and picking up the bill? A well-dressed, feminine, intelligent girlfriend who cooks for him and gives him a blow job every day.

 

I'd say it's a fair trade-off.

 

 

I would say it is a fair trade off with you but there are many that consider what you do to be degrading and something that a stepford wife does. After a few decades if hearing how women won't do all those things for men anymore can you blame guys for saying the hell with chivalry? What most men have issue with is the fact that traditional roles only seem to go one way.

[Treasa]

You know what I like to hear from a man at the end of dinner on a first date?

 

"That meal was great. I'm glad we had a chance to get to know each other better. I hope you don't mind, but I insist on getting the check." And accompanied by a warm smile.

 

I will always reciprocate in some way, because that's very charming and gentle and yet masculine.

 

No one has told me what actual princess treatment is like. The princes in Disney movies do jack **** for the princesses except marry them. Oh. Yay.

 

Those who do things for the princesses: the horse, the fairy godmother, the mice, the woodland creatures, the little dragon guardian, etc.

 

Also, the generalizations about women from men are pretty amusing. There's a high correlation between that and the amount of whining by men about not being able to get a quality woman. Maybe eventually you'll figure out what the actual problem is.

 

Love,

~An awesome woman

[Treasa]

Apparently men whine when we speak up but if a woman speak us it's empowering. I don't date so I have nothing to whine about btw.

 

I'm fairly sure that, if I whine, I don't make generalizations about men. When I complain, I complain about the specific source, and don't crucify everyone else who has the same type of genitals.

[daisybuchanan55]

I think it's ironic that my way of doing things has led to dating high-quality men with great morals, character, humor and careers. I go on awesome dates and when I'm in a relationship have lots of great sex.

 

Crazy Canuck, you sound lonely and depressed. For your own sake why don't you try doing things another way?

 

Btw, I don't find treating men well "degrading." It's only degrading if you feel like you're not in a loving, caring relationship. I always am. When you love someone, you're happy to cater to each other and make each other happy.

[Treasa]

Sorry that's been the truth every time I speak up it doesn't matter who it is. Some men do it too so it's not gender related, try again.

 

That sucks for you. I tend to look at people in a good light, and I tend to look at individuals, not genders, and as a result, I have amazing men and women in my life.

[pteromom]

 

Crazy Canuck, you sound lonely and depressed. For your own sake why don't you try doing things another way?

 

The "doing" isn't the issue as much as the thinking behind the actions though. You can't be successful in dating with an "us vs. them" mentality. Unless your definition of success is manipulating "them" so that you "win".

 

But if your definition of success is a mutually satisfying partnership where both people feel appreciated and accepted, then the THINKING has to change.

[pteromom]

 

FYI I don't need someone to make me happy I'm happy without someone.

 

FYI - you don't SOUND like someone who is happy. You sound like someone who is bitter and angry toward women.

 

Obviously, only YOU know your own feelings, but it's how you come across on here.

[daisybuchanan55]

Oh now it's lonely and desperate lol

I choose not to date sorry I still have women hitting on me. Try another? I was the pathetic nice guy when I was younger guess what ?????? It didn't work. You can only see the BS for so long until you enlighten to the truth.

 

FYI I don't need someone to make me happy I'm happy without someone.

 

You seem to think there are only two ways of "being" -- the "pathetic nice guy" or the "'I won't let women take advantage of me, there I won't date' guy"

 

There IS a middle ground you know. Most men fall in that middle ground. I remember reading a few posts back that you refuse to spend money on a woman "until she likes you." That's ridiculous! If I'm out with a man on a first, second or third date you can assume I like him. Sure there are women who user men for free drinks and meals, but like someone else pointed out, there are also men who rape and murder women. That doesn't mean ALL women and ALL men are like that. In fact, very few are--which is why they make headlines!

 

I think you are using not paying for women as a way to protect yourself from being "used," which indicates that in your past you were TOO nice to women who maybe didn't deserve your kindness.

 

The problem is, you will miss on some wonderful, caring women by putting up walls and not taking a chance on them. I consider myself a generous girl with a lot to offer but if a man were stubborn and rude enough not to offer to pay on a date, he would never get a chance to find out what kind of person I am because I wouldn't go out again. I'd assume he was cheap, selfish, bitter and immature.

 

Dating involves a lot of trial and error and unfortunately a lot of heartbreak. For every time you've felt monetarily used by a woman, ten women out there have felt sexually used by a man. It's unfortunate, but it happens. Just because there are some bad parts about dating doesn't mean you should take yourself out of the game. You are missing out on some fun times and possibly meeting your soulmate.

[musemaj11]

A man not wanting to pay on dates is like a woman not wanting to have sex.

 

You are going to have a tougher time finding someone.

[musemaj11]

Oh, and btw, the "equality" argument is dumb because when I refer to equality, I'm talking about the workplace...and I would NEVER expect a male co-worker to treat me like a girlfriend or pay for anything.

The Benefits YES! The Responsibilities NO!

 

Havent you ever thought that men might want equality outside the workplace the same way women want equality in the workplace?

[crude]

 

A man buys dinner and opens doors and treats a woman like a lady, and a woman gives her man a backrub after a long day at work and gives him her love and treats him like a man.

 

 

I think those are artificial stereotypes that aren't all that accurate. Nowadays a $200,000/year female lawyer can pay for dinner and a man can give her a foot massage when she comes home. She treats him like a gentleman she cares for and he treats her like a woman who deserves respect and nurturing.

[thecrucible]

Hi all,

 

I went on an internet date about a week ago and we had 3 rounds of drinks. He paid for everything. I pretty much went along with what was happening. I didn't really notice at the time that I should have contributed some of my share and now I'm thinking, "Whoops. I should have asked him if we could go dutch". Do you think a man is likely to judge a woman on that? He still asked me for a second date but I want to contribute something next time. I feel a bit bad and don't want him to think that I didn't appreciate the gesture. I think I am just used to men spending money on me.

 

So he has asked for a second date. If I meet him again, should I just say what I've said here, explain it to him that I do care and I'm not a freeloader?

 

Thanks

[GI_Joy]

Actions speak louder than words. No need to make a big deal about it, you're a kind soul for being that way. Most guys don't really mind paying for everything. It's only the first date, don't feel like your lack of paying is a reflection of who you are. The next date you can always return the favor and buy him drinks. Or dessert. You don't really have to explain yourself.