Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[Daniel5987]

This is why I prefer dates that don't cost money. I have no desire to share a meal or see a movie -- and then figure out how to split the bill -- with someone I hardly know. I'd much rather go for a walk and stop for a coffee.

 

 

 

I'm curious as to how you know all this. Am I missing the store that sells "I am entitled to a hot girlfriend" and the "If you want to take me out, pay for the date" t-shirts?

 

 

 

Exactly. I would never want a man paying for date because he feels he has to, I would only want him to pay if he wants to.

 

 

 

And that's why you are free to make someone like that your EX-girlfriend.

 

Haha I know.. She was a very unappreciative girl my ex girlfriend I can tell you that. Honestly, she wasn't bad at the start but it got progressively worse... Although strangely the night before we mutually broke up she actually took ME out to dinner and paid... But yeah so that happened once when I paid for everything through out the whole thing.

[Silly_Girl]

Many of these changes are ones that women demanded and now that they realize they are some aspects they might not like they blame men for them.

 

What aspects don't they/we like?

[january2011]

Oh I'm not sure if this is in response to my post but il answer it anyway

Basically whenever I said look I'm low on money now is it okay if you pay for your meal, she'd treat it as some sort of big deal. Just ungrateful really, I'd never dream of kicking up a fuss like that.

 

I totally understand what your saying it does make sense though but in my situation it was just a total lack of appreciation!

 

Oh well that's why she's my ex haha!

 

Thanks for the clarification. Her behaviour as you described doesn't sound very supportive. So, I agree that it was for the best that you went your separate ways.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Jakelongot;4052207]How is that what i said? I was just pointing out that it was a 2 way street. Meaning that women are just as responsible as men (no more, no less). In general, men might want to jump in the sack quicker than women, but no one is putting a gun to their head. Equal responsibility

 

That isn't called a 2 way street. That's called blaming women for everything and giving men free passes for everything. Talk about responsbility...you aren't talking about equal responsibility. YOu are talking about a double standard men exercise in their favor then whine about others when there are different expectatiosn placed on them that aren't on women.

 

What!?!? You are the one who started saying how hard it was to be a women. I simply replied with the fact that we both have it hard. And just when you say "there are advantages men have and there are advantages women have" you follow it up with "women have to do it all while giving birth and having higher expectations placed on their body..."

 

No you didn't. You didn't say both men adn women have it hard. I did. You argued your case strictly for men.

 

ANd yes, my comments still stand. there are advantages and disadvantages both sexes have to deal with. But there is increasing pressure on women today to be both the man and woman. Refer to the list I already made that illustrated what I was refering too. You certainly didn't dispute the list.

 

Again, men have just as many expectations placed on them. Maybe less based on pure beauty than women...

 

Yes, men are not judged as hasherly for their looks.

 

 

..but certainly more in regards to money and success.

 

Yes, men still have stigmas to deal with regarding success and money. However, most women have to work to suppor their families along with their husbands now-a-days. And this thread shows that wome nare now also expected to pay just as much as men. So I question how much of money and success factors in for most regular relationships now-a-days when we currently live in a time where women are earning mroe degrees and having kids ,raising families AND having to work jobs/careers to help support the family. On top of it all, it seems that women largly stilll take on a majority of the household responsiblities. Today's men certainly do more then ever before in that regard but I don't believe it's equal. I still see a majority of mother's out with children doing the shopping and errands after work vs the husbands.

 

 

And thank you again for bringing up "child birth" as a hardship. As I pointed out in my original post, one of the top 3 "go to" lines when talking about how unfair it is.

 

Whether you like it or not, women *DO* have that extra hardship/expectation. Sorry. That's simply the way it is. You don't get to put that down just because you don't like the fact that the reality is women have to go through things that men simply don't.

 

We all have it tough honey

 

Yeah, I think I said that first. Not you. Except I didn't add a condsending "honey" to it to make myself sound "better". Whenever people pull the "honey" and other endearments over the internet when debating an isssue, it's simply done to be condsending and tedious. Congrats to you in accomplishing that.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Mme. Chaucer

II certainly can't conceive of finding some kind of justification for a man paying for dates due to the fact that I go to the gym or spend money on my considerable vanities. I do all that stuff because that's what I want to do. No man has to "repay" me for getting a Brazilian blowout or a facial with expensive dates. What an absurd concept.

I am not "justifying" a man paying for dates because I pay to keep myself kept. I am simply reflecting the different ways cost takes up space in the whole dating equation. If we are going to talk about cost, lets talk about cost. There are certainly lots of grey area inbetween but the cost is cost is cost.

 

 

I also don't think that an older man should be stuck with a bill more frequently than a younger man. Maybe a richer man more than a poorer one … but what does age have to do with it? Is the underlying idea there that a young woman is somehow "selling" her youth and beauty to an old fart?

I see, so placing higher expectations on richer men vs men that aren't as rich is okay but it's not okay to do it based on age? Right.

 

I placed higher expectations on older men that I dated all around. Why? They were older. With age should come more experience and responsibility. We don't have the same exact expectations for someone that is 20 vs someone that is 30-40. Why would a woman or man dating an older person have the same expectations for someone older vs someone younger? They wouldn't.

You can choose to see it anyway you want..such as payment for a woman "selling" her youth. I just see it as common sense. When I dated older men, it was because they were more established. If they acted like 20 year olds or treated me like 20 year olds, then I would simply have dated 20 year olds. My expectations where different for older men vs younger men. I don't think this unreasonable.

Edited June 14, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PJKino]

 

 

 

Yes, men are not judged as hasherly for their looks.

 

Not true,women are just as harsh in judging looks,the ones who arent that harsh in judging looks probably dont have many options to be picky

[ATrainofAngels]

I am not "justifying" a man paying for dates because I pay to keep myself kept. I am simply reflecting the different ways cost takes up space in the whole dating equation. If we are going to talk about cost, lets talk about cost. There are certainly lots of grey area inbetween but the cost is cost is cost.

 

 

 

 

I see, so placing higher expectations on richer men vs men that aren't as rich is okay but it's not okay to do it based on age? Right.

 

I placed higher expectations on older men that I dated all around. Why? They were older. With age should come more experience and responsibility. We don't have the same exact expectations for someone that is 20 vs someone that is 30-40. Why would a woman or man dating an older person have the same expectatiosn for someone older vs someone younger? They wouldn't.

You can choose to see it anyway you want..such as payment for a woman "selling" her youth. I just see it as common sense. When I dated older men, it was because they were more established. If they acted like 20 year olds or treated me like 20 year olds, then I would simply have dated 20 year olds. My expectations where different for older men vs younger men. I don't think this unreasonable.

 

 

 

The problem is that you're making the mistake of assuming that older men will always have more money

 

 

I know 25 year olds making six figures and I know guys in their late 30s living paycheck to paycheck

Edited June 14, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Woggle]

What aspects don't they/we like?

 

Men not paying for dates

 

Men not pursuing

 

In general men not play our traditional role even when they assert their right to go against their traditional roles.

[Mme. Chaucer]

In the case of women and you, the question is more likely 'Why put in the effort when your partner thinks that 'wives who are not housewives are stupid''?

 

I KNOW. And, it's going to be quite a challenge for that housewife to keep up her housewifely duties and, at the same time, strive to earn as much money as her husband so as to avoid the charge of "riding on his coattails."

[wiigirl]

I actually went on a date last night, and the girl insisted on paying half! I was a little surprised, and she said "Hey, I'm a modern times kind of girl... Why should you pay for everything".... Wow! I was not only impressed, but I was also just not expecting that! This girl is already quite amazing in my eyes, and that just put her up another notch.

 

Only half? I only do that if I don't like the guy (no offense)

 

I always alternate until a rhythm is set.

[ATrainofAngels]

I KNOW. And, it's going to be quite a challenge for that housewife to keep up her housewifely duties and, at the same time, strive to earn as much money as her husband so as to avoid the charge of "riding on his coattails."

 

 

Guys, I have no issue at all in a situation where a woman does all the housework and the man earns all the money and pays for everything. I have no problem at all with that - that's an equal arrangement

 

 

what I have a problem with is women demanding that men pay for them even when it's just casual dating and the woman isn't doing anything else in the relationship. If you guys are living together and the man pays for everything while the woman does all the housework, there's nothing wrong with that at all (even if the woman earns money herself)

 

 

I'm not saying that women should do a big portion of the housework AND earn equal money. Hell I'm not even saying that women should pay equal amounts in relationships or dating. They should pay about equal to how much they earn in comparison to the man. If I'm making six figures and my girlfriend is making 30 grand, then I'm going to pay for everything. There's nothing really wrong with that - what I want in that situation is the girl to fully appreciate it and not feel that she's entitled to it

 

 

All I'm saying is that relationships should be reasonably close to equal like that

Edited June 14, 2012 by ATrainofAngels

[xxoo]

what I want in that situation is the girl to fully appreciate it and not feel that she's entitled to it

 

But why would a man continue to date a woman who acted otherwise???

 

Those wealthy friends wouldn't make plans with you if you didn't appreciate their generosity, and felt entitled. Why do men do that with women?

Edited June 14, 2012 by xxoo

[zengirl]

All I'm saying is that relationships should be reasonably close to equal like that

 

I think Rs should reflect what the people in them want them to be. I don't feel like I can call someone else's R "equal" or "unequal" --- nor do I think calculation makes any sense in an R, personally, or worrying too much about all that. If both people are happy with the dynamic, isn't that all that matters? If they aren't happy, then they should remedy that by leaving or attempting to amend the dynamics of the R.

 

As such, the solution is simple: Don't offer to pay if you don't want to pay! Super-simple. No one has mandated men pay for meals; the men who do so are choosing to do so, because they feel compelled to for one reason or another.

 

But if a man offers, why should a woman feel guilty for accepting his offer? No one has made any sort of compelling case towards that. I'm not saying men are duty-bound to pay for dates. All I'm saying is they can do what they want -- offer to pay or not. Why shouldn't men act out of their individual free will on this matter?

 

If you're saying men should be able to offer to pay without having to pay or ever being taken up on the offer, well, then you are asking for something 'for free,' really. You're saying men should get the benefit of believing they *would* pay (whatever that is to them, whether it is a good internal feeling or a good external appearance to the lady or others) without backing up his words with actions. Sometimes that will happen, and that's fine -- not just with that in dating, but with other offers of generosity. For instance, I offered to drive a friend to the airport, but didn't have to, and she was still just as thankful that I offered and I felt just as warm and fuzzy about offering, because I knew I would follow through if required. However, I think it'd be ****ty if I had offered but then judged my friend for taking me up on the offer because I didn't really MEAN my generosity of time -- I just wanted the benefits of being generous without having to put anything out there. That would be crap, and I'd never do that.

 

So, the solution is simple if you don't want to offer generosity. You're not bound to do so in any situation, really. Offer it or don't. But don't expect someone else to feel guilty for not turning you down. I hate that stuff in all aspects of life --- people who claim they care how you feel and will listen, but then judge you for confiding in them or people who put on a pretense of being helpful but then don't want to actually do the help, etc, etc.

 

Granted, if someone is ever, "Aren't you going to pay for my steak?" about things, then that's bad behavior, too! But it's pretty rare I meet a woman who doesn't understand her part in the etiquette and directly requests someone pay, especially a stranger.

[maybealone]

I don't understand why this issue is fought so much. In nature, males find mates by impressing them. They don't have $20 bills to throw down for a few drinks, but they have beautiful feathers, full manes, and elaborate mating calls. But somehow, over time, human dating has evolved into who can put in the least amount of effort and still win the heart of the person of their dreams.

 

If you like someone and you want to pay, pay. If it's an online thing or someone you don't really know, say that you want to go dutch before you ever go out. If you don't expect a woman to read your mind, you won't be disappointed. You won't waste your time on a woman with a sense of entitlement, and she won't waste her time if what she wants is beautiful feathers or a full mane.

 

It really doesn't seem all that complicated to me.

Edited June 14, 2012 by maybealone

[William]

These threads come up periodically. I'm considering creating a master thread on this topic. Let's keep the discussion focused on understanding without poking at each other. Thanks.

 

OK, master thread created and pinned at the top of the dating forum. All future posts on 'who pays for dates' will be consolidated into this thread. I'll add more posts as searches bring them up. Carry on.

Edited June 14, 2012 by William
Add information

[samsungxoxo]

I did the so called 50/50 long ago and you know what it resulted in?

 

A failed relationship and he took me for granted to the point of not even trying at all.

 

Incidents:

Getting nothing at all for Christmas, not even a simple Merry Christmas card

 

Not even calling to wish me on my b-day or Happy New Year now tell if that's rude.

 

Or he would refused to go out and only coming to my house

 

He never send me anything (during long distance) not even a damn card

 

Present-day: sometimes I hang out with this male colleague and don't pay for anything. It seems to be working so far. I guess some things are better left the old-fashion ways. Sometimes it doesn't work acting like a super modern woman. They can get confused and think Well she doesn't need anything and therefore, I do anything creative at all.

Never again will I do the 50/50 unless I'm in a great relationship with the man and trust him. Now if it was his b-day or a special ocassions yes I'll definately put an effort.

Edited June 14, 2012 by samsungxoxo

[samsungxoxo]

I've recently started dating someone. From the beginning he has not offered to pay for a single date. We are on our fifth date at this point and it makes me feel like he's not taking this seriously. We do chat all the time and he does make effort in calling me first. When we are alone he's very affectionate and passionate. He is from a different background than me. I don't know if it makes a difference. He is Jewish and I'm not. We both know that our parents would hate the fact that we are dating. Would that make a difference?

 

He's already told me that he does not plan on dating other people at the same time. However this makes me doubt him. (I know so old fashioned) Any advice would be appreciated.

If he's not going to impress you and isn't looking for dates, why are you still talking to him?

 

I would ditch him if I were you.

[jakelongot]

That isn't called a 2 way street. That's called blaming women for everything and giving men free passes for everything. Talk about responsbility...you aren't talking about equal responsibility. YOu are talking about a double standard men exercise in their favor then whine about others when there are different expectatiosn placed on them that aren't on women.

 

I'm literally telling you I think a lot of these issues are a "two way street" and you are saying I'm blaming women. I think that sums it up. I would continue the discussion, but what's the point?

 

 

Yes, men still have stigmas to deal with regarding success and money. However, most women have to work to suppor their families along with their husbands now-a-days. And this thread shows that wome nare now also expected to pay just as much as men. So I question how much of money and success factors in for most regular relationships now-a-days when we currently live in a time where women are earning mroe degrees and having kids ,raising families AND having to work jobs/careers to help support the family. On top of it all, it seems that women largly stilll take on a majority of the household responsiblities. Today's men certainly do more then ever before in that regard but I don't believe it's equal. I still see a majority of mother's out with children doing the shopping and errands after work vs the husbands.

 

Are you reading what you are writing? You state that women are expected to work more and conceed that men play a larger role in the home now than ever before, but then just go to "I see more women out shopping after work" so women have an extra hardship?

 

We are obviously speaking in generalities here...the large majority of men and the large majority of women. You can't pick and choose. So to say a woman who might be the bread winner in a 2 parent family is also the one taking care of the kids, taking care of the house and doing the shopping is unrealistic.

 

Yes there are single parent women who do all these things, but there is also single parent men who do this to

 

Whether you like it or not, women *DO* have that extra hardship/expectation. Sorry. That's simply the way it is. You don't get to put that down just because you don't like the fact that the reality is women have to go through things that men simply don't.

 

This goes back to what I was saying before. Women have to deal with childbirth and periods. I get it. You (women) are always quick to remind us of this when we argue hardships. But what you seem to discount is that men are expected to pay child support and alimony in the event of a breakup. If custody remains with the father, very very very few women are given that financial responsibility. We always have to be weary to women using us for our money, which is an economic hardship women will rarely ever have to consider. THERE ARE TRADEOFFS.

Edited June 14, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Since poster agreed comments were condescending, dicussion removed.

[RedFemale]

Any guy who pays for a stranger for that strangers time JUST BECAUSE she is a female...is a total loser, who has no value in him self.

 

I hear many girls here say that when they are not feeling it and are not planning on seeing a guy again, she will pay for her half and will let a guy pay, if she is interested.....

 

If so, how come same can't be true for guys?

 

If a guy pays, he is interested...if he wants to split or is not offering to pay, he is not feeling it, or interested....

Edited June 14, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[samsungxoxo]

Any guy who pays for a stranger for that strangers time JUST BECAUSE she is a female...is a total loser, who has no value in him self.

 

I hear many girls here say that when they are not feeling it and are not planning on seeing a guy again, she will pay for her half and will let a guy pay, if she is interested.....

 

If so, how come same can't be true for guys?

 

If a guy pays, he is interested...if he wants to split or is not offering to pay, he is not feeling it, or interested....

I don't about that but my father has always told me ''Hope you're not paying, if he asks just tell him you don't have any money''.

[RedFemale]

Your father has no idea about common sense, I am sorry to say. He also has no respect for his male gender. I would not be his friend, that's for sure. He is teaching his little girl how to lie, use and manipulate people. What a dad!

 

He should get a cup with #1 Dad on it for sure.

[maybealone]

I hear many girls here say that when they are not feeling it and are not planning on seeing a guy again, she will pay for her half and will let a guy pay, if she is interested.....

 

If so, how come same can't be true for guys?

 

If a guy pays, he is interested...if he wants to split or is not offering to pay, he is not feeling it, or interested....

 

This is why who pays for what should be part of planning the date. If a $20 check comes and the guy pulls out $10, the woman will assume he is not interested. If a woman pulls out a $10, the guy will assume the woman is not interested. If the guy pulls out a $20 and the woman says nothing, the woman might be thinking he likes her while the guy might be thinking she is a freeloader. If a guy pulls out a $20, the woman pulls out a $10, and the guy says it is his treat, the woman then has to guess whether he likes her or whether he is being polite and expects her to force the $10 on him. If the woman insists on paying $10 (or even the full $20), the guy might be convinced that she isn't interested. If she keeps the $10, the guy might think she was never serious about paying for half and that she is still a freeloader. If she keeps the $10 and adds, "I'll pay for the next date," the guy might think she is desperate or pushy.

 

This issue is made so much more complicated than it has to be. I don't think I will ever again go on a first date that costs anything!

[Els]

SO glad this master thread was created. Can we have a 30-day holiday for anyone who creates a new thread after this, please?

[RedFemale]

This is why who pays for what should be part of planning the date. If a $20 check comes and the guy pulls out $10, the woman will assume he is not interested. If a woman pulls out a $10, the guy will assume the woman is not interested. If the guy pulls out a $20 and the woman says nothing, the woman might be thinking he likes her while the guy might be thinking she is a freeloader. If a guy pulls out a $20, the woman pulls out a $10, and the guy says it is his treat, the woman then has to guess whether he likes her or whether he is being polite and expects her to force the $10 on him. If the woman insists on paying $10 (or even the full $20), the guy might be convinced that she isn't interested. If she keeps the $10, the guy might think she was never serious about paying for half and that she is still a freeloader. If she keeps the $10 and adds, "I'll pay for the next date," the guy might think she is desperate or pushy.

 

This issue is made so much more complicated than it has to be. I don't think I will ever again go on a first date that costs anything!

 

It is made complicated by women!

[maybealone]

It is made complicated by women!

 

Could you elaborate on that, please?