Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[zengirl]

Typically disingenuous. Try taking OLD dates to Starbucks, McDs or Dennys and you -will- be slandered by women. Not all of them, but enough to damage your dating reputation in your pool.

 

I think being someone who has a 'dating reputation in your pool' that you want to maintain is the whole problem. I'm not surprised you meet problem women, as Elswyth says.

[Els]

Oh, dasein. Just because you perceive accepting a coffee from someone who wants to buy you one makes you submissive, dependent, property and not-self-sufficient (your words, not mine) doesn't make it the truth. Every post I read from you, I can understand more and more why you have so MANY personal anecdotes about dating horrible women. Your inability to embrace (or even listen without insulting) any points of view remotely differing from their own opens a huge window into the multitude of undesirable elements within your psyche. I'm genuinely sorry that the women you've encountered in your life turned you into such a person, but I wonder if it's a chicken-and-egg thing. Regardless, your prerogative to continue along this path. There are plenty of men who genuinely believe in and enforce gender equality in their personal lives who have no trouble with women.

 

TL;DR: It's just you.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I am exhausted, yet amused by trying to wrap my mind around the concept (not to even mention the histrionic, florid sentences used to express it) of men being "expected" to pay for dates equaling some kind of heinous conspiracy launched by an Illuminati-like group of Marxist/feminists hoping to take over the world … for what? To have dates paid for by men for all eternity? Sounds like a worthy cause. Wait, I need to make a placard.

 

There.

 

For some reason, I just can't get all fired up along with dasein and his little team of dittoheads about the outrageous abuses and inequities heaped upon the general population of white males in North America. I'm just not feeling it.

[Els]

I am exhausted, yet amused by trying to wrap my mind around the concept (not to even mention the histrionic, florid sentences used to express it) of men being "expected" to pay for dates equaling some kind of heinous conspiracy launched by an Illuminati-like group of Marxist/feminists hoping to take over the world … for what? To have dates paid for by men for all eternity? Sounds like a worthy cause. Wait, I need to make a placard.

 

Don't forget communism! I could've sworn that had some part in the tirade.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Sure, men can certainly say they like to pay, that's their prerogative. Women who seize on that as opposed to simply admitting "I'm willing to toss all my high-minded ideals about independence and self-sufficiency out the window the minute I get free stuff and $$$ from a man!!" are hypocrites. Most of this thread is rationalization.

 

.

 

Wow! Hey, you just might be right! Now that I'm being honest, the very thought:

 

"I'm willing to toss all my high-minded ideals about independence and self-sufficiency out the window the minute I get free stuff and $$$ from a man!!"

 

was exactly what was running through my mind when I went on my first date with my husband. Which he elaborately planned and paid for.

 

What a sucker! And me, I'm such a hypocrite for subverting my high minded ideals of independence and self sufficiency in order to accept the gesture!

 

But wait. What does independence and self sufficiency, or lack of them, have to do with somebody buying me a dinner?

[dasein]

I'm not surprised you're meeting women like that constantly, though, to be perfectly honest.You're right - it isn't your people-picker that's off either. Birds of a feather simply flock together.

 

I think being someone who has a 'dating reputation in your pool' that you want to maintain is the whole problem. I'm not surprised you meet problem women, as Elswyth says.

 

Since we are going there, as you lot inevitably do, your marriages must be truly out-freaking-standing as much time as you supposedly happily married fem-cliquers spend here haranguing men on a -dating- board when -none- of you are in fact -dating-. Get more personal, and I will happily oblige you. Or just drop the personal stuff and speak to the topic at hand, which is not -my- personal dating situation. Any anecdotes I offer are illustrative of the topic issue, my opinion of it, and experiences with it, not of my seeking advice or potshots from you lot. "Birds of a feather" indeed.

 

Why would married people spend so much time on a dating board opining on activities they aren't even involved with? Rationalizing all around the topic with respect to an activity they don't even do? Who knows, but I have my suspicions.

[Els]

Haranguing men here? Would you like to post the last quote of me 'haranguing' a man on LS for not paying? You and women who simply accept, on the other hand...

 

People in LTRs need time alone too. If you believe you should be spending 100% of your time off with your partner, good luck in your next relationship (if she doesn't rip you off first ). LS is my hobby. The difference is, I don't actually HAVE 328649084 personal dating anecdotes about utterly horrible men. I know some women who do, and, just like I can see why with you, I can see why with them.

 

You need to get with the times. Lots of people who don't even play football IRL on football fan forums, people who don't own sports cars on sports car forums. The list goes on. Your insinuation is slightly amusing, to be honest.

[Els]

Also, I'll indulge your request and return to the topic.

 

Originally Posted by dasein

This thread isn't about paying because you want to, but about feeling you have to in a world where female privileges remain somehow, yet all obligations have faded away. Either pay or face slander. I'm sure the woman who took me to the fancy event and I didn't pay for it all slandered me up and down the entire state.

 

Originally Posted by Elswyth

And the women who feel like they have to shave their legs, put on makeup and wear heels in a world where there is supposed equality? If their perceptions are nullified by the 'hundreds of women who want to do it for themselves', then I'm certain johan et al nullify the men who feel they have to.

 

There you go. It was your turn, I believe.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Why would married people spend so much time on a dating board opining on activities they aren't even involved with? Rationalizing all around the topic with respect to an activity they don't even do? Who knows, but I have my suspicions.

 

Why would a person such as yourself spend so much time talking about a subject you aren't even involved with? Such as feminism? And why on a dating board? Your ranting and raving about feminism is not pertinent to dating.

 

And I seriously doubt you are actively dating, yourself.

 

I got to LS when I was not married, but dating. I still have a lot to talk about on the subject of dating.

 

Dasein, I think it's really cowardly, the way you dismiss every single thing posted by a woman or a man who doesn't share your sad perspective as "rationalization," a "straw man," etc. And boring. It renders you and everything you say as utterly dismissible itself, and we don't even have to make up a fake label for it to be so.

 

You do have an impressive vocabulary, though, even if you tend to misuse it.

[zengirl]

Why would married people spend so much time on a dating board opining on activities they aren't even involved with? Rationalizing all around the topic with respect to an activity they don't even do? Who knows, but I have my suspicions.

 

I don't believe Elswyth is married, though she does have a boyfriend. I'm fairly newly married and was single when I first came to LS. I felt no need to leave the second I signed my marriage certificate and my experiences and opinions were not wiped from my mind just because I got married.

 

I would assume -- as I certainly valued the advice of successfully married or coupled people when I was single and dating -- that voices of the non-single who have already navigated the dating waters would still have a place in such discussions. You can ignore that voice, certainly, but I definitely don't feel like it says anything bad about me and my dating opinions that I'm married! That's like asking why someone would give tips on job-hunting if they're employed!

[d'Arthez]

The difference is, I don't actually HAVE 328649084 personal dating anecdotes about utterly horrible men.

It is amusing that dasein fails to spot the common denominator in every interaction he engages in. Of course the whole world is wrong. Women are wrong. Everyone who disagrees with him is wrong, because the world does not obey his will.

 

Fact is that most of the people who disagree with him don't go from "whore to whore" (his words), but actually are able to keep functional and loving relationships going.

[dasein]

Aww, seems I touched a nerve. Shall we stop with the personal stuff and discuss the topic? I'm not going to play compliant punching bag like SD and Woggle in light of some of your very obvious, persistent agendas of taking potshots at and "having one over on men" here. So let's all stop, shall we?

 

Feminism, like all politics, is a dogma that affects everyone's lives. Dating and who pays for it does not, certainly doesn't affect married people. This will be my last off-topic reply here or response to off-topic posts concerning me, feminism, Mrs. O'Leary's cow or anything else not on topic.

[Els]

 

Dasein, I think it's really cowardly, the way you dismiss every single thing posted by a woman or a man who doesn't share your sad perspective as "rationalization," a "straw man," etc. And boring. It renders you and everything you say as utterly dismissible itself, and we don't even have to make up a fake label for it to be so.

 

Shh, you. Potshots are only allowed when they given by dasein, not received by him.

[bac]

He's already told me that he does not plan on dating other people at the same time. However this makes me doubt him. (I know so old fashioned) Any advice would be appreciated.

It is fine if a woman pays for dates. It depends on people's personal values, situation, people and your goals. It does not depend on nationality. You can do whatever you feel comfortable and enjoyable.

It is good that he is Jewish because they are typically great at sex and at making money. If he wants you to pay for dates, you have to respect his values if you want to be his GF.

Paying on dates has nothing to do with anything. Men do pay a lot for casual sex dates, ONSs, FWBs and even prostitutes.

[d'Arthez]

Shh, you. Potshots are only allowed when they given by dasein, not received by him.

Famous glass chin, I suppose. How manly.

[Els]

Famous glass chin' date=' I suppose. How manly.[/quote']

 

You're going to have to explain that simile to me. English as a second language and all that.

[d'Arthez]

Glass chin: one hit to said chin, and he is down for the count (the simile comes from boxing).

 

Dating does not have to be expensive. Certainly not to the tune of spending thousands of dollars on a few dates. If you make the wallet talk, that says a lot about the person in a dating situation as well. No idea why anyone would want to go along with that, unless they wanted to date someone who is digging for gold.

[Els]

Glass chin: one hit to said chin, and he is down for the count (the simile comes from boxing).

 

Dating does not have to be expensive. Certainly not to the tune of spending thousands of dollars on a few dates. If you make the wallet talk, that says a lot about the person in a dating situation as well. No idea why anyone would want to go along with that, unless they wanted to date someone who is digging for gold.

 

I agree completely. It boggles me how someone could pay $3000 to a brand new date just so that they're not called 'cheap' by the requester and then blame 'women's expectations of men'. Any man worth his salt would have refused that attempt, laughed at the con-woman, and not thought twice about it after.

[Sanman]

Wow, this 'master thread' seems to be getting more out of hand than the regular ones. A few quick points:

 

- While there are many nutty posters in LS, Elswyth and Zengirl are two that I have never had issue with. While I don't always agree with them, I have never had anything but civil discourse with them on any issue. Many of us in relationships hang around LS and the dating forum because we spent time here and still enjoy coming back and conversing with those that we know or giving advice. If no one here was in a relationship, it would be the blind leading the blind.

 

- Dasein, while men have been called cheap (even in this thread multiple times) for not wanting to pay for dates and women may gossip to their friends about such things, they are not alerting the whole eastern seaboard. If they had, I would never have gotten so many dates. I get the artistic license and going to Nth degree with some things here, but it takes away from the legitimate points I know you have. I appreciate some of your contributions and as I have read many points from you, but sometimes you let the bitterness override your better judgement.

 

 

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. While several female posters have mentioned that men can just tell women they want to go dutch, I do wonder why in this day of so many different wants and needs in relationships, women cannot be expected to disclose their preferences as well. After all, in any other relationship the assumption is that everyone go dutch unless otherwise stated.

 

Also, the women arguing on the last few pages, tend to be more reasonable than most of the women some of the men have issue with in real life. I can't tell you how many women coyly look away or excuse themselves to the restroom the minute the bill shows up to the table during my years of dating. I have also met plenty that will show on dates still hung up on an ex or too busy to really date. If there is the expectation that the man should pay, should there not be an added expectation on the woman that she be truly ready to date prior to accepting such from a man and treat that relationship with respect. As I stated in my personal struggles to find the right person, it is not paying for a woman that I truly despise but paying for a woman that has not taken the time to show any investment in a relationship with me. In this age of OLD, multi-dating, text break-ups, fwb, or just plain ignoring you, it seems that this expectation of paying (or investment) does not entitle a man to any sort of expectation of investment from the woman.

[zengirl]

No nerves touched here, ftr.

 

I agree completely. It boggles me how someone could pay $3000 to a brand new date just so that they're not called 'cheap' by the requester and then blame 'women's expectations of men'. Any man worth his salt would have refused that attempt, laughed at the con-woman, and not thought twice about it after.

 

Basically, this is my problem. I have the same problem if someone spends 5 hours looking hot and then complains about the expectations of beauty men enforce on women. You get the fish based on the bait. Always true.

[RedFemale]

A world would be a better place, if they were no human females and we had no natures call to desire one......oh what a world it would have been....

[Els]

Wow, this 'master thread' seems to be getting more out of hand than the regular ones. A few quick points:

 

- While there are many nutty posters in LS, Elswyth and Zengirl are two that I have never had issue with. While I don't always agree with them, I have never had anything but civil discourse with them on any issue. Many of us in relationships hang around LS and the dating forum because we spent time here and still enjoy coming back and conversing with those that we know or giving advice. If no one here was in a relationship, it would be the blind leading the blind.

 

 

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. While several female posters have mentioned that men can just tell women they want to go dutch, I do wonder why in this day of so many different wants and needs in relationships, women cannot be expected to disclose their preferences as well. After all, in any other relationship the assumption is that everyone go dutch unless otherwise stated.

 

I guess it's just societal habit for the most part. If there is a certain thing you like from your dating partner, you don't go all out and tell them the first time you meet them, usually. I don't think saying, "I love women who wear red lingerie" would work well as the first sentence out of a man's mouth.

 

Also, the women arguing on the last few pages, tend to be more reasonable than most of the women some of the men have issue with in real life. I can't tell you how many women coyly look away or excuse themselves to the restroom the minute the bill shows up to the table during my years of dating.

 

There definitely are some women like that. Exceedingly uncourteous. I once overheard a conversation from a neighbouring table in which the woman said, "Hey, will you pay for the food? I'm the girl... *cue eye batting*". So disgusting. It's one thing to have preferences, but to say/do stuff to AVOID paying one's share altogether is just low.

[RedFemale]

 

 

 

I guess it's just societal habit for the most part. If there is a certain thing you like from your dating partner, you don't go all out and tell them the first time you meet them, usually. I don't think saying, "I love women who wear red lingerie" would work well as the first sentence out of a man's mouth.

 

 

 

There definitely are some women like that. Exceedingly uncourteous. I once overheard a conversation from a neighbouring table in which the woman said, "Hey, will you pay for the food? I'm the girl... *cue eye batting*". So disgusting. It's one thing to have preferences, but to say/do stuff to AVOID paying one's share altogether is just low.

 

You are correct. Women are pathetic creatures of selfish, rotten core of darkness. I never even heard about a guy on a date, saying or doing thigs, so he would not have to pay his share.

[Sanman]

 

I guess it's just societal habit for the most part. If there is a certain thing you like from your dating partner, you don't go all out and tell them the first time you meet them, usually. I don't think saying, "I love women who wear red lingerie" would work well as the first sentence out of a man's mouth.

 

Agreed, that is why I think that those that suggest men saying they want to go dutch ahead seems silly to me. I think many people would be off-put by having the topic brought up even if they intended to split the bill.

 

 

There definitely are some women like that. Exceedingly uncourteous. I once overheard a conversation from a neighbouring table in which the woman said, "Hey, will you pay for the food? I'm the girl... *cue eye batting*". So disgusting. It's one thing to have preferences, but to say/do stuff to AVOID paying one's share altogether is just low.

Lol, I was at a wine festival with some friends and my gf not too long ago. I went over to purchase a cigar from the tent and an attractive young lady, unable to negotiate a discount on any cigar there, wanted to know if I would buy her a cigar because she was a girl. I politely informed her that I did not mind, but my gf would.

[kaylan]

 

I guess it's just societal habit for the most part. If there is a certain thing you like from your dating partner, you don't go all out and tell them the first time you meet them, usually. I don't think saying, "I love women who wear red lingerie" would work well as the first sentence out of a man's mouth.

 

There definitely are some women like that. Exceedingly uncourteous. I once overheard a conversation from a neighbouring table in which the woman said, "Hey, will you pay for the food? I'm the girl... *cue eye batting*". So disgusting. It's one thing to have preferences, but to say/do stuff to AVOID paying one's share altogether is just low.

Agree.

 

And maybe its my locale, or maybe I havent dated enough...but the girls I usually get involved with tend to have their own cash and dont mind dutch. Usually I do coffee dates and other low key things early on and cover the tiny bill.

 

Ive never really done "typical American dating" with dinners and all that crap. Usually I meet a girl, we become friends....we go out for coffee...we end up hooking up...and then we just spend time together without any expectations money wise. Just two adults who can take care of things.