Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[zengirl]

Because money has real impact unlike not being allowed to wear a dress.

 

There is a reason why women fought for the right to vote but didnt fight for the responsibility to get conscripted into the military.

 

I agree 100% that the male-only draft is wrong, unequal, and should be changed. I actually cite that on LS a lot for a real men's equity issue! I'd vote to change it, personally. Start a thread on that grievance - not in the dating section of course, as it'd be OT - and I'll be the first to agree with you. That's legalized discrimination, absolutely.

 

Though I expected they'd eventually change it and draft women as well if the draft became a real issue again. Women still didn't have workplace rights the last time a real draft was in effect. I expect any signs to change it now would be seen as a ramp up to a draft, which is why politicians will not touch it. Really, drafting is wrong in general, IMO, but yes drafting only one gender is 100% unequal and wrong.

 

Not the same thing as socializing Tommy to pay for the movie and socializing Sally to like it, though. One is just social conditioning; the other is legalized and institutionalized discrimination.

[musemaj11]

I agree 100% that the male-only draft is wrong, unequal, and should be changed. I actually cite that on LS a lot for a real men's equity issue! I'd vote to change it, personally. Start a thread on that grievance - not in the dating section of course, as it'd be OT - and I'll be the first to agree with you. That's legalized discrimination, absolutely.

 

Though I expected they'd eventually change it and draft women as well if the draft became a real issue again. Women still didn't have workplace rights the last time a real draft was in effect. I expect any signs to change it now would be seen as a ramp up to a draft, which is why politicians will not touch it. Really, drafting is wrong in general, IMO, but yes drafting only one gender is 100% unequal and wrong.

 

Not the same thing as socializing Tommy to pay for the movie and socializing Sally to like it, though. One is just social conditioning; the other is legalized and institutionalized discrimination.

My point was simply that we cherrypick things that we find to be our best interests. To me not being allowed to wear a dress is of little importance, since wearing a dress isnt my thing. So Im not fighting for it. But I support those men who think they shouldnt be frowned upon for wearing a dress.

[Leigh 87]

I think it shows a guy is into you if they pay for the first date. However, the first date should be cheap and easy going - not roses, presents, and expensive meals. Not unless your the type of guy who really wants one a girl and likes to " wow" them. Most cool and decet guys just go on cheap dates and pay for an ice cream and a walk. or hot chips and a walk to burn them off - I prefer hot chips to ice cream, personally:)

 

 

For me - I like walks and hot chips. If a guy would not buy my hot chips, I would not be that into him. That simple. It would kill the mood if I felt he was into me, and then could not even offer to buy 3 dollar chips.

 

 

.... Sure, there are guys who are into you and yet do not pay - but it just would leave me questioning how into me they were! I would ACCEPT that there ARE guys out there who are crazy about girls, yet who do not pay for a date.....

 

I would say that, if a guy is not blown away by a girl on the first date or two - he will not pay, even if he may like her a greal deal; on the other hand, if a guy is REALLY into you, I would GUESS that they would indeed, pay.

 

So - Although I know there are exceptions, and possible a LOT of men who are " into" girls and yet do not pay - I do not want to be with one of those guys. It would just leave me questioning how into me he really was.

 

That said, I would friendzone and remain friendly with the guy who did not buy me hot chips! I would tell him I wanted to be friends for now, if any spark happened naturally, so be it.

If he was that crazy about me,a nd vise versa, it would be apparant if he turned out to me THAT into me.

I Just would not continue to date a guy who did not pay - but be open to being proven wrong, that he did not pay, and us still into me.

If a " friend" who I dated, and did not pay, ended up crazy about me and we could be great together, I would re asses thiings. For sure.

[zengirl]

My point was simply that we cherrypick things that we find to be our best interests. To me not being allowed to wear a dress is of little importance, since wearing a dress isnt my thing. So Im not fighting for it. But I support those men who think they shouldnt be frowned upon for wearing a dress.

 

Ah, so you are picking and choosing what aspects of gender socialization you find important? Not really an egalitarian view, but at least honest! I'm sure you're fine with women picking and choosing too then?

[Leigh 87]

Yep, precisely.

 

 

And yet some of them continue to do it. And they're proud of it. That's some admirable guts and character, IMO, way more than I see in the men who resentfully fork out the bill despite not wanting to and then posting 3276293786233 complaints about how 'women make them' here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A man who begrudgingly pays for a women is obviously not that into her. He may not intend to pay, but if he ends up doing it, if the girl seams pretty awsome - he would just be like " sucks to not have much cash to spash around, but this girl is cool, I do not feel resetful for paying for her".

 

A guy who is resentful for paying o a first date is either NOT the type of man I would consider to be a positive, generous, and particularly joyus and happy type of guy - or, he is just not that into me, if he actually feels BAD paying for me. Good lord.

[Mme. Chaucer]

A man who begrudgingly pays for a women is obviously not that into her.

 

There is no amount of being "into" a girl that could erode the mountain of resentment some of these guys have about the idea of paying for a date.

 

Well, to be fair, those who have been very vocal about it are quite upfront about disliking (or hating) women in general.

[musemaj11]

Ah, so you are picking and choosing what aspects of gender socialization you find important? Not really an egalitarian view, but at least honest! I'm sure you're fine with women picking and choosing too then?

How is me not finding my right to wear a dress important makes me unegalitarian?

[Mme. Chaucer]

But I support those men who think they shouldnt be frowned upon for wearing a dress.

 

Do you support those men who feel like paying for dates with women, and who do so?

 

Do you support women doing what they feel is right for them? Or only support men?

[musemaj11]

Do you support those men who feel like paying for dates with women, and who do so?

It doesnt bother me as long as those men dont pass judgment on me either for not liking to be the one expected to pay just because Im a man.

 

Do you support women doing what they feel is right for them? Or only support men?

Depends on what it is. If they feel it is right for them to use a man for money, then Im not going to support it.

[Leopard]

I think it's a turn off when a man doesn't pay. Like you said, you can't take him seriously and also assume that he isn't serious about you.

 

Actions speak louder than words.

[Leopard]

It doesnt bother me as long as those men dont pass judgment on me either for not liking to be the one expected to pay just because Im a man.

 

They will though. I know men who pay and men who don't. The men who don't pay don't say anything, but the men who pay look down on men who don't.

 

I was once in a situation where I was with my boyfriend in line at a cafe, and behind us was another couple. My boyfriend paid for what we ordered, but when the couple behind us paid separately, the boyfriend/husband was embarrassed. To not look bad, when the woman handed over the money to pay, he immediately told her "don't worry about it I got this". I knew he didn't usually pay because the woman replied "Really? But we always split it."

 

I wonder what makes a man embarrassed though. If they don't agree with paying, then why all of a sudden do they feel bad when they are compared to a man who pays?

[d'Arthez]

I wonder what makes a man embarrassed though. If they don't agree with paying, then why all of a sudden do they feel bad when they are compared to a man who pays?

You'd probably feel the same if the woman behind you was dressed for the occasion, and you had shown up in some casual clothing.

 

Social settings and comparisons do influence our perception of what constitutes appropriate behavior a lot.

[Leopard]

In other words, you're an escort.

 

People who think men pay just because they expect something in return are the type of people who would ONLY pay if they got something in RETURN.

 

I wouldn't want a man like that. I want a man who is generous and kind enough to treat me to a meal. I guess someone like you wouldn't understand that

[Leopard]

I understand completely, I want a woman who is kind and generous enough to treat me to a good lay without expecting anything in return. Not that I expect a woman of ill repute to understand such things.

 

You're comparing paying for a date to giving someone your body? Yeah, I can definitely see why you're single.

[Feelsgoodman]

They will though. I know men who pay and men who don't. The men who don't pay don't say anything, but the men who pay look down on men who don't.

This is not true. Men who don't have to pay for women typically look down on men who do. We see them as inferior, as they have to pay for something that we don't. Men who pay for their dates are only one step above johns who patronize prostitutes. There is no honor in being a walking wallet.

 

In the male hierarchy, there are three levels of man:

 

1. Those who don't have to pay for sex (alpha males);

2. Those who pay for sex indirectly by taking a woman out and paying for her food and entertainment (beta males); and

3. Those who pay for sex directly by hiring prostitutes (omega males).

[Leopard]

This is not true. Men who don't have to pay for women typically look down on men who do. We see them as inferior, as they have to pay for something that we don't. Men who pay for their dates are only one step above johns who patronize prostitutes. There is no honor in being a walking wallet.

 

In the male hierarchy, there are three levels of man:

 

1. Those who don't have to pay for sex (alpha males);

2. Those who pay for sex indirectly by taking a woman out and paying for her food and entertainment (beta males); and

3. Those who pay for sex directly by hiring prostitutes (omega males).

 

This makes sense, but then why do the majority of women prefer a man who pays on dates? If all women want an alpha (and I totally get why) then why do many choose the beta over the alpha?

 

Because the beta pays for the date. I have been with alphas before (they prefer that I pay for half of everything) and they were more demanding and bossy when it came to sex than the betas I have dated, who were more patient and understanding when I wasn't in the mood or simply didn't feel like it.

 

Ever wonder why the stereotype that married men are p*ssy whipped exists? Because they don't cheat and pay for everything. But that's why they're married and that's why there is such a stereotype.

 

I feel more comfortable with betas, I feel more taken care of. If an alpha can get free sex, then he is free to sleep around and that is what most alphas do. I know a married alpha who still cheats on his wife, but hey! At least she pays for half.

 

Then I know women married/in a relationship with betas who are far happier with them. And the betas are less likely to cheat. Plus they pay! Geez I don't see why anyone would not want a beta!

 

This is obviously a generalization, and not all alphas and betas are like this, but a generalization is a generalization for a reason.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Leopard

[Feelsgoodman]

This makes sense, but then why do the majority of women prefer a man who pays on dates? If all women want an alpha (and I totally get why) then why do many choose the beta over the alpha?

Easy...most men are not alphas, which means that most women have no choice but to settle for betas.

[Algermas]

This makes sense, but then why do the majority of women prefer a man who pays on dates? If all women want an alpha (and I totally get why) then why do many choose the beta over the alpha?

 

...

 

 

This is obviously a generalization, and not all alphas and betas are like this, but a generalization is a generalization for a reason.

 

Because most women are not of the proper calibre to interest an alpha male, hence they must settle for lesser men.

[musemaj11]

Ever wonder why the stereotype that married men are p*ssy whipped exists? Because they don't cheat and pay for everything. But that's why they're married and that's why there is such a stereotype.

 

.

What a sad existence to live as a beta.

 

They are nothing but but work horses who cater to their women masters for the rest of their lives. Tragic.

[Mme. Chaucer]

What a sad existence to live as a beta.

 

They are nothing but but work horses who cater to their women masters for the rest of their lives. Tragic.

 

Guys who sit on the Internet complaining about women and certainly never "catering" to any of them, or pay for dates … or even go on dates … are thereby deemed to be "alpha" by your standards?

 

Awesome.

[mesmerized]

I like the fact that men who are extremely against paying in this thread are the men who have no genuine interest in women to begin with. Coincidence?

[musemaj11]

I like the fact that men who are extremely against paying in this thread are the men who have no genuine interest in women to begin with. Coincidence?

Reading all the entitlement of women on this forum, its hard to have genuine interest in them even if I want to.

 

Guys who sit on the Internet complaining about women and certainly never "catering" to any of them, or pay for dates … or even go on dates … are thereby deemed to be "alpha" by your standards?

 

Awesome.

Unfortunately I need sex so I do go on dates and pay even if begrudgingly.

[Feelsgoodman]

Guys who sit on the Internet complaining about women and certainly never "catering" to any of them, or pay for dates … or even go on dates … are thereby deemed to be "alpha" by your standards?

 

Awesome.

There are men who are loved and adored by women without spending a cent...in fact, they often have women spending money on them. Don't tell me you've never met a guy like that.

[Mme. Chaucer]

There are men who are loved and adored by women without spending a cent...in fact, they often have women spending money on them. Don't tell me you've never met a guy like that.

 

Of course I have.

 

I just don't think that "alpha status" is determined by whether a man will or will not ever pay for dates.

 

I suspect that an alpha person sets their own rules, and would be just as likely to reject a "rule" prohibiting him or her to pay for a date if they felt like it as a rule that shames them if they won't.

[Sanman]

Because the beta pays for the date. I have been with alphas before (they prefer that I pay for half of everything) and they were more demanding and bossy when it came to sex than the betas I have dated, who were more patient and understanding when I wasn't in the mood or simply didn't feel like it.

 

Ever wonder why the stereotype that married men are p*ssy whipped exists? Because they don't cheat and pay for everything. But that's why they're married and that's why there is such a stereotype.

 

I feel more comfortable with betas, I feel more taken care of. If an alpha can get free sex, then he is free to sleep around and that is what most alphas do. I know a married alpha who still cheats on his wife, but hey! At least she pays for half.

 

Then I know women married/in a relationship with betas who are far happier with them. And the betas are less likely to cheat. Plus they pay! Geez I don't see why anyone would not want a beta!

 

This is obviously a generalization, and not all alphas and betas are like this, but a generalization is a generalization for a reason.

 

Ladies, if you wanted to know why some men have a problem with paying, your answer is above. There is nothing like being called p*ssy whipped and to know that a woman is with you because you pay for her and are less likely to cheat or demand sex. Makes me want to run right out and buy some woman dinner. :rolleyes: