Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[Sanman]

And equality doesn't have to begin and end with splitting finances 50%. None of the other things mentioned have to be split absolutely down the middle either.

 

 

In the context of a relationship, I absolutely agree with you. During an early date, one is not providing any type of support for the other and neither is sure if they will even see the other again. Thus, it makes sense to split the cost of early dates.

[Els]

In the context of a relationship, I absolutely agree with you. During an early date, one is not providing any type of support for the other and neither is sure if they will even see the other again. Thus, it makes sense to split the cost of early dates.

 

As I said before, I think essentially it makes sense to do what you feel is right. Don't pay if you feel that is right. Pay if you feel that is right. Screw anyone who says anything demeaning about your choice, be it calling you cheap for not paying, or calling you a chump for paying.

 

That, IMO, is what being an 'alpha' person really is. Making your own choices and your own rules and not letting anyone get you down for them.

[sally4sara]

Who said anything about need?

 

The fact that you are thinking this way means that if I cook and a man pays, you think I NEED a man to pay, but I don't. I just prefer things this way.

 

So tell me. Since you and your husband always do everything for yourselves, how do you take care of him? If he can cook his own meals, make his own money, clean his own things, then what do YOU do for him? And I mean tasks, not emotions.

 

Just curious.

 

I already answered these questions. Re read the post you're responding to and take note of the part of yours I bolded where you asked how a woman is suppose to take care of a man.

 

For specifics? I make him laugh his ass off. He enjoys a good debate and howdy! I can keep up without getting angry. If he wants help with something that takes two sets of hands, there isn't much I can't help with. I welcome people he finds merit in into our home and offer friendship along with it as long as they treat me in a respectful manner. We share a lot of common interests. I can be expected to know how to conduct myself at a high scale banquet AND tear apart some Maryland Blues without going "ewww its so gross! Icky!" I can sing like a canary, fight off a mugger, look graceful in his arms on the dance floor, take care of any task necessary including his half if he can't get it done for whatever reason and I have no gag reflex. Oh and I'm pretty; so damn pretty.

 

In the early stages of courting, both men and women are looking for indications that the other will be a good partner. You want the guy to show you by paying for you. I get that.

To the argument of men should be good providers because a woman intends to keep the home and do the child care - Okay. So while the man is paying for all the courting expenses in the first stages, how will you show him you can do your bit? Cooking a couple meals for him? Will you bring along some babies to show him your diaper changing skills? Or toddlers to reprimand and shut down tantrums so he can see your mothering skills in action? Do you have dates where he comes over to observe you doing the laundry and cleaning the toilet?

Other than the cooking of a few meals, I have never heard of any of this going on during the early stages of courting. Not then in the 50s and not now. Then, there was the ASSUMPTION that women had some natural ability towards being good at domestic duties and child care and men had some natural ability towards being good at earning a living. Now we know that both are quite capable of all of this and someone might be good or bad at it on a case by case, individual specific basis rather than gender.

So if you're not showing him your end all and be all right from jump in the courting game, why expect him to?

[Algermas]

Or spend some serious time reflecting on why you are consistently attracted to this type of woman.

 

 

 

And equality doesn't have to begin and end with splitting finances 50%. None of the other things mentioned have to be split absolutely down the middle either.

 

Oh that's easy, because in 2012 the women who can/want to cook and clean are homely. I've since learned my lesson and now restrict my interactions with women to work and sexual intercourse.

[Mme. Chaucer]

It seems to me that many members of LoveShack have trouble discerning the difference between a person liking, wanting or even requiring something in a relationship with them feeling ENTITLED to it.

 

I agree that entitlement is very unattractive and, basically, a trait of weakness. But a man or woman holding out for whatever floats their boat in a relationship, even if it's a thing that gets others' dander up (like a man who pays for everything or a woman who looks just like Megan Fox) does not equate to that person feeling "entitled" to whatever.

 

Some of the complaining about "entitlement" seems to be the fallback position of the rejected and butthurt. Most of us have been there.

[Woggle]

It would also turn off any woman who was willing to raise your children and cook for you instead of hiring a babysitter and barely every seeing her kids because she is working too much.

 

You shouldn't expect dinner on the table when you get home from work then, and I hope you can cook because you would be cooking your *half* of the meal just like she pays for her *half* of it.

 

If you are willing to do that then I am all for paying. I think that traditional should go both ways and so should equal. As for me sometimes I cook and she cooks and sometimes I pay and she pays but I don't believe in spending a whole lot of money on anybody I just met. If I do pay I think a woman should be at least willing to have an inexpensive date at first.

[samsungxoxo]

If you are willing to do that then I am all for paying. I think that traditional should go both ways and so should equal. As for me sometimes I cook and she cooks and sometimes I pay and she pays but I don't believe in spending a whole lot of money on anybody I just met. If I do pay I think a woman should be at least willing to have an inexpensive date at first.

Does this includes McDonalds? As long as it's not that, ok.

[Els]

It seems to me that many members of LoveShack have trouble discerning the difference between a person liking, wanting or even requiring something in a relationship with them feeling ENTITLED to it.

 

I agree that entitlement is very unattractive and, basically, a trait of weakness. But a man or woman holding out for whatever floats their boat in a relationship, even if it's a thing that gets others' dander up (like a man who pays for everything or a woman who looks just like Megan Fox) does not equate to that person feeling "entitled" to whatever.

 

Some of the complaining about "entitlement" seems to be the fallback position of the rejected and butthurt. Most of us have been there.

 

Yeah, the post I made about the differences didn't seem to get any responses, not even disagreement. People just went right ahead with their arguments.

[Woggle]

I have my friends tell me I should open up a restaurant so I cooking is not just a woman's thing.

[sally4sara]

Well there is wanting what you prefer and then there is the naivety of thinking that the way you prefer things be will hold in the reality of day after day, year after year. I like what I like too, but I'm not going to only cover what I like and believe its all covered permanently. Its why I believe its to peoples' mutual benefit to find well rounded partners especially if they intend on having children. Can you imagine how things would have gone for a 4 year old Gloria if Edith had to be in the hospital for an extended stay and Archie was left to his own devices?

[Sanman]

Does this includes McDonalds? As long as it's not that, ok.

 

Fine, I'll take you Wendy's. Women are so g*d damn picky sometimes! :p:D

[Woggle]

Does this includes McDonalds? As long as it's not that, ok.

 

Of course not but how about a local mid priced Italian or Chinese place? My wife and I had our first official date where I took her out at a local cheesesteak place that is about the size of a trailer and we loved it.

[samsungxoxo]

Fine, I'll take you Wendy's. Women are so g*d damn picky sometimes! :p:D

Much better. Not that I'm picky but McDonalds means he's not even trying at all. Why even bother with someone like that!!!

 

Even a simple café is a lot better than McDonalds.

[samsungxoxo]

Of course not but how about a local mid priced Italian or Chinese place? My wife and I had our first official date where I took her out at a local cheesesteak place that is about the size of a trailer and we loved it.

Sounds good....

[musemaj11]

Do you understand what i'm trying to say? It would hurt to pay for a few dates.

Of course it wouldnt hurt for you because you are not the one paying ...

 

I bet you were the one expected to pay for everything on a date, you wouldnt be happy either.

 

If a woman pays for half of the tab, what reciprocation is in order?

 

Is paying for half what is considered the reciprocation? Because if she pays for half, then the man shouldn't expects anything from her. You didn't do her a favor so she doesn't owe you. (Which is why I say that if a man makes her pay for half, he shouldn't complain when she doesn't want to have sex).

 

So i'm just trying to understand what you mean by reciprocation.

So if I pay for you, I can demand sex from you? That sounds good to me actually.

 

I think a correction is in order here: The women whom musemaj tends to date do not know how to cook. Nor does musemaj himself know, I'm wagering.

Yeah I cant cook I admit. I would rather clean and do laundry instead.

 

Maybe I should rephrase. If a woman knows how to cook, and was willing to make meals for you, would you then agree to paying?

When we are living together sure yeah. But we are talking about dating. Im not going to suddenly start coming to your house everyday after one date.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

When we are living together sure yeah. But we are talking about dating. Im not going to suddenly start coming to your house everyday after one date.

 

You're NOT? Well, darn it, that's quite a letdown.

[Sanman]

You're NOT? Well, darn it, that's quite a letdown.

 

musemaj,

 

Mme. clearly wants you over her house everyday so that she can cook for you. Best not to disappoint. Tonight is as a good a night as any to start. :p

[zengirl]

Of course not but how about a local mid priced Italian or Chinese place? My wife and I had our first official date where I took her out at a local cheesesteak place that is about the size of a trailer and we loved it.

 

Local, reasonably priced restaurants are what I prefer. Hubby and I had pho on our first date at a place we go a lot. I didn't pick up the tab that night but I have before - 2 phos are about $14 plus tip. A lot of times we get some $2 summer rolls too. It amazes me how much people pay for stuff. I know loads of great restaurants where Hubby and I eat and drink (only 1 drink usually) for less than $50, including tip, sometimes under or close to $25 for the both of us.

[Els]

Local, reasonably priced restaurants are what I prefer. Hubby and I had pho on our first date at a place we go a lot. I didn't pick up the tab that night but I have before - 2 phos are about $14 plus tip. A lot of times we get some $2 summer rolls too. It amazes me how much people pay for stuff. I know loads of great restaurants where Hubby and I eat and drink (only 1 drink usually) for less than $50, including tip, sometimes under or close to $25 for the both of us.

 

The majority of the places we go to cost < $25 for both of us as well.

 

I personally feel that both bar/chain restaurant food and fast food are generally overpriced for the quality. Once in a while we splurge on a good (and rigorously-researched by me! ) restaurant, but for the most part we avoid bars and chains, and stick to cheap, small places with surprisingly good food.

[Kaniut]

As a woman, I feel that I have been at both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between: paying for the first date, paying just the tip, not paying for the first date, paying for most of my dates, and paying for very few of my dates. That's because all of the men that I dated were somewhat different in their views of who should pay. I once dated a guy who believed that women should at least pay for part of the first date. I think at the time, he found it refreshing that I considered myself a feminist and I had no problem paying for all or part of the bill.

 

Now, I am with someone who could care less about who pays and he would never hold it against me if I did not pay a single dime for dinner. It's not the fact that he "spoils" me by buying me gifts or taking me to dinner, it's the fact that unlike the first guy, he spends more time worrying about being happy and making me happy than who pays for the bill. He loves me, regardless of whether or not I pay. Sure, you can say that the woman should always pay or that the man should always pay, but if you start writing someone off as soon as they don't quite live up to your expectations, then you're just as bad as the people who are arguing against your viewpoint.

 

Paying for dates is like a big grey area, much like love and dating itself. Sometimes you stagger through and find that even though you might feel independent for paying for all or part of the bill, the guy is a pretentious jerk and it really doesn't matter what he thinks of you. It's not about who pays or who doesn't pay . . . it's about being with the kind of person who doesn't sweat the small stuff.

[Leopard]

It does not mean that we do not enjoy knowing someone cares about us and seeing the evidence in their actions.

 

Exactly, and the action of treating you to a date says a lot more then when he asks for you to pay half.

 

When we are living together sure yeah. But we are talking about dating. Im not going to suddenly start coming to your house everyday after one date.

 

When people first start dating of course its all going out and stuff. Once you are in a relationship you don't go on dates very often and usually stay in. So how is it unfair when the guy pays for the dates in the beginning, and for the rest of the relationship the woman does more cooking?

 

It evens out. If you pay for dates, then eventually you will go over for dinner. And if you live together, then she will end up making more food than you go on dates. So in the long run, she is doing much more.

 

I don't see why men are being so cheap. I have never ever paid on a date. To me, if a man doesn't pay for a date, then he is cheap, and that's a turn off. Whats $40 bucks at the movies plus snacks? Seriously? You feel bad for spending $20 bucks on me?

 

Yuck. Then I wouldn't spend 2 hours in a theatre with you if that's how you feel. Why would I want to date a man who doesn't have the common decency to treat me to a movie or coffee?

 

Ever wonder why women go all mushy when a guy buys them flowers? It's not the spending part, it's the treating them to something nice part. Men still don't get it, and that's why they are all single and complaining on an online forum.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Leopard

[Sanman]

Exactly, and the action of treating you to a date says a lot more then when he asks for you to pay half.

 

 

When people first start dating of course its all going out and stuff. Once you are in a relationship you don't go on dates very often and usually stay in. So how is it unfair when the guy pays for the dates in the beginning, and for the rest of the relationship the woman does more cooking?

 

It evens out. If you pay for dates, then eventually you will go over for dinner. And if you live together, then she will end up making more food than you go on dates. So in the long run, she is doing much more.

 

I don't see why men are being so cheap. I have never ever paid on a date. To me, if a man doesn't pay for a date, then he is cheap, and that's a turn off. Whats $40 bucks at the movies plus snacks? Seriously? You feel bad for spending $20 bucks on me?

 

Yuck. Then I wouldn't spend 2 hours in a theatre with you if that's how you feel. Why would I want to date a man who doesn't have the common decency to treat me to a movie or coffee?

 

Ever wonder why women go all mushy when a guy buys them flowers? It's not the spending part, it's the treating them to something nice part. Men still don't get it, and that's why they are all single and complaining on an online forum.

 

Yeah, I treat you to dinner I get....oh wait, I don't get anything in return. On a first date, I don't care about you..in fact, I don't even know you. Paying only evens out for the one woman you end up in a relationship with. If I treat you to that $40 movie date and am a perfect gentleman, then you meet the man of your dreams the next day, are you going to apologize to me and give me $20 (or better yet offer to cover the entire $40) for wasting my time?

 

Alternatively, can I tell you I spent all my money on the last girl and that you should start cooking for from date #1 since it all evens out in the end and after I dump you the next guy will pay for your dinners without wanting you to cook?

 

FYI...some of us are in relationships already

 

Leopard, do you multi-date when you are single?

Edited June 19, 2012 by Sanman

[maybealone]

Yeah, I treat you to dinner I get....oh wait, I don't get anything in return. On a first date, I don't care about you..in fact, I don't even know you.

 

In these discussions, I do (at least in my own head) make a distinction between men who ask out any woman that breathes, OLD, and men who actually like a woman before asking her out.

 

If you are going to take out dozens of women in a year, then I am not going to feel too bad about the "date" line in your budget. If it's OLD, I believe the date should either be free, limited to a cup of coffee, or split. But if you actually like the woman, it doesn't hurt to make an investment in your first date.

 

After all, many of the things we do are investments in our potential futures with no guarantees -- whether that investment is buying a suit for job interviews, paying for a college education, or treating the woman you could end up marrying to an inexpensive dinner.

[Leopard]

Yeah, I treat you to dinner I get....oh wait, I don't get anything in return. On a first date, I don't care about you..in fact, I don't even know you. Paying only evens out for the one woman you end up in a relationship with. If I treat you to that $40 movie date and am a perfect gentleman, then you meet the man of your dreams the next day, are you going to apologize to me and give me $20 (or better yet offer to cover the entire $40) for wasting my time?

 

Leopard, do you multi-date when you are single?

 

If you are so careless about the girl then why the hell did you ask her out in the first place? The point of going on dates is to get to know each other and make a good impression. You obviously don't get this.

 

And no, I don't multi date.

[Sanman]

If you are so careless about the girl then why the hell did you ask her out in the first place? The point of going on dates is to get to know each other and make a good impression. You obviously don't get this.

 

And no, I don't multi date.

 

See, you just made my point for me. If you are still getting to know someone, you cannot already care about them. Hence, paying for a first date has nothing to do with caring for the other person. Caring for another takes time. All I know about the woman sitting in front of me is her physical appearance (if it isn't OLD) and how we have faired in a brief conversation on the phone/chatting online/at a bar/at a party. She might be the woman of my dreams or she might be the woman who did lines of coke off Charlie Sheen's c*ck last weekend (unlikley to be both).

 

It is nice that you don't multi-date, you really are something out of the 1950's. However, in this new world, plenty of women are seeing several other men or have a fwb they are sleeping with as I date them. Many do not know how to cook or clean, nor do they really want to. I don't think most men would have a problem paying for a woman that dated them exclusively from day one, cooked them dinners, etc. That is known as a traditional relationship. I paid for my first date with my current gf, but that was only because she invested in getting to know me for three months first. Most women my age do not have that kind of patience or attention span, not in most NYC dating circles anyway.

 

It is easy to vilify men and call them cheap, but there you make the assumption that all women make the same choices you make in a relationship.