Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[Algermas]

No it's common sense. If it was me invitating the man, then it would be me paying.

 

How to avoid having to pay for your own expenses, female edition:

 

- Set up a system where you're never the one ask someone out on a date.

- Insist that the person that does the asking pays.

 

- Legal prostitution!

[samsungxoxo]

How to avoid having to pay for your own expenses, female edition:

 

- Set up a system where you're never the one ask someone out on a date.

Only reason I haven't asked out a man yet is because of school, don't find any guy at my work attractive and have been very busy. If I had the time and found him attractive I would without hesitation. Quit assuming!!!

[Algermas]

Only reason I haven't asked out a man yet is because of school, don't find any guy at my work attractive and have been very busy. If I had the time and found him attractive I would without hesitation. Quit assuming!!!

 

Oh I see, a hypocrite. I thought you fancied the good old ways.

 

Why are you working and in school? Shouldn't you be doing some housekeeping?

[samsungxoxo]

Oh I see, a hypocrite. I thought you fancied the good old ways.

The good old ways would be if I were to say ''A man has to pay for the date because he has to''. I only stated that whoever asks out pays. The two statements are completely different.

Why are you working and in school?

For many reasons but it's mainly for the following purpose:

 

1) I'm sick of working in call centers, where you have to annoy the hell out of people and have them either constantly hanging up or complaining. The only way to get a decent job that relates to your field of interest is by studying.

 

2) Traveling purposes (I can't travel if I'm only working in meager positions).

 

3) Buy an apartment

 

4) Overal: make something of myself.... etc..

Shouldn't you be doing some housekeeping?

Well I'm sure there is time for everything. Ever heard of multitasking? Though it would be hard (not impossible but very tough) since I have to be at my job in the morning, then I have classes at 6 PM (4 times a week) and by the time I return home it's already about 10:30 PM.

 

In addition, I have an allergic reaction (it can range from coughing, sneezing or literally getting me sick) to dust, some detergents, strong sprays, etc.

It's really a condition, which I can't help (not making it up, it's true... I can't snife them too long).

I might be able to do some household chores (making lunch and dinner, washing dishes, fixing the bed) but not heavy cleaning.

 

Still.... if I like the guy and certain time was passed by sure I will make him dinner.

[Christine52]

Proper Dating Etiquette goes like this:

 

Date One, Two, and Three:

 

1. Cheque comes to the table, BOTH people reach for their wallets. The guy offers to pay, and the woman smiles a great big smiles and thanks him for being so generous, and puts her wallet away.

2. Here comes movie after dinner. Guy offers to pay for ticket, again she thanks him but holds on to her wallet and offers to at least buy the popcorn.

 

After the first few dates, where the guy is paying for the major activities, but the girl is paying for the dessert coffee/popcorn/etc, then you move into the more steady/exclusive relationship. This is where you go dutch. When you're exclusive with each other, he will treat dinner one day, then the next date, she will treat dinner, etc. I personally don't like splitting the bill 50/50 as it kinda kills the mood. I prefer to pay for one activity on one date, and he can pick up the other activity.

 

In the case where she is more financially stable than he, just go on more financially affordable dates, so you don't have that awkwardness where the guy can barely afford the dinner.

[Nicomis]

Proper Dating Etiquette goes like this:

 

Date One, Two, and Three:

 

1. Cheque comes to the table, BOTH people reach for their wallets. The guy offers to pay, and the woman smiles a great big smiles and thanks him for being so generous, and puts her wallet away.

2. Here comes movie after dinner. Guy offers to pay for ticket, again she thanks him but holds on to her wallet and offers to at least buy the popcorn.

 

After the first few dates, where the guy is paying for the major activities, but the girl is paying for the dessert coffee/popcorn/etc, then you move into the more steady/exclusive relationship. This is where you go dutch. When you're exclusive with each other, he will treat dinner one day, then the next date, she will treat dinner, etc. I personally don't like splitting the bill 50/50 as it kinda kills the mood. I prefer to pay for one activity on one date, and he can pick up the other activity.

 

In the case where she is more financially stable than he, just go on more financially affordable dates, so you don't have that awkwardness where the guy can barely afford the dinner.

 

I like this approach. I feel like women are having their cake and eating it too in this country, and men are viewed by a majority of single American women as "walking ATM's", but Christine52 has the right idea about how it SHOULD work. The other alternative is European women. They are not so demanding, and don't seem to have the sense of entitlement American women often have.

[Algermas]

Proper Dating Etiquette goes like this:

 

Date One, Two, and Three:

 

1. Cheque comes to the table, BOTH people reach for their wallets. The guy offers to pay, and the woman smiles a great big smiles and thanks him for being so generous, and puts her wallet away.

2. Here comes movie after dinner. Guy offers to pay for ticket, again she thanks him but holds on to her wallet and offers to at least buy the popcorn.

 

After the first few dates, where the guy is paying for the major activities, but the girl is paying for the dessert coffee/popcorn/etc, then you move into the more steady/exclusive relationship. This is where you go dutch. When you're exclusive with each other, he will treat dinner one day, then the next date, she will treat dinner, etc. I personally don't like splitting the bill 50/50 as it kinda kills the mood. I prefer to pay for one activity on one date, and he can pick up the other activity.

 

In the case where she is more financially stable than he, just go on more financially affordable dates, so you don't have that awkwardness where the guy can barely afford the dinner.

 

And what entitles those born with ovaries to being financially compensated for their time?

[carhill]

While there have been exceptions, the description offered by Christine52 has been what I've experienced throughout life and definitely was a commonality in all of the encounters which later turned into relationships or marriage. This experience crosses real-life and online meetings, both local and in other places and countries.

 

I will say I didn't spend much time scrutinizing exactly how substantially a woman went for her wallet, so that's perhaps a variable. A reach into her purse was generally all I noted. It could have been for lipstick

[LauraP]

I personally don't like splitting the bill 50/50 as it kinda kills the mood.

Never really done that but then again, I'm not really a wholesome and Ms Goody-two shoes girl they're looking for either.

[Christine52]

While there have been exceptions, the description offered by Christine52 has been what I've experienced throughout life and definitely was a commonality in all of the encounters which later turned into relationships or marriage. This experience crosses real-life and online meetings, both local and in other places and countries.

 

I will say I didn't spend much time scrutinizing exactly how substantially a woman went for her wallet, so that's perhaps a variable. A reach into her purse was generally all I noted. It could have been for lipstick

 

She should be taking her wallet out of the bag, and even opening it At that point, the guy can insist, or let her insist first, and he refuse

[Christine52]

And what entitles those born with ovaries to being financially compensated for their time?

 

....what does being financially compensated having anything to do with dating? Sorry I don't get quite your contribution in this response.

[carhill]

She should be taking her wallet out of the bag, and even opening it

I only can specifically remember that happening with one lady I dated during my divorce. She definitely removed her wallet from her purse. The rest of it is all a blur of the past. It's not super-critical for me as I always pay for early dates anyway but I included my observations of how things went. IME, once I got past all the rejections, the dating process left no negative memories. Sometimes things worked out; sometimes not, but that was more about the people than the process.

[Christine52]

The good old ways would be if I were to say ''A man has to pay for the date because he has to''. I only stated that whoever asks out pays. The two statements are completely different.

For many reasons but it's mainly for the following purpose:

 

1) I'm sick of working in call centers, where you have to annoy the hell out of people and have them either constantly hanging up or complaining. The only way to get a decent job that relates to your field of interest is by studying.

 

2) Traveling purposes (I can't travel if I'm only working in meager positions).

 

3) Buy an apartment

 

4) Overal: make something of myself.... etc..

Well I'm sure there is time for everything. Ever heard of multitasking? Though it would be hard (not impossible but very tough) since I have to be at my job in the morning, then I have classes at 6 PM (4 times a week) and by the time I return home it's already about 10:30 PM.

 

In addition, I have an allergic reaction (it can range from coughing, sneezing or literally getting me sick) to dust, some detergents, strong sprays, etc.

It's really a condition, which I can't help (not making it up, it's true... I can't snife them too long).

I might be able to do some household chores (making lunch and dinner, washing dishes, fixing the bed) but not heavy cleaning.

 

Still.... if I like the guy and certain time was passed by sure I will make him dinner.

 

Samsung, I think I speak for the majority here when I say he crossed the line, more ways than one.

 

I can see your line of thought, and agree. Dating is an invitation, and if he asked you out, he is inviting you to share a meal with him. Like any dinner party, the host is the provider If I invited a guy to watch a concert with me, I would provide the ticket and even refreshments

 

Although we live in 2012, traditional dating norms are still prevalent today. Its only been 60 years since the 50s when the traditional norm was having a housewife who never worked outside the home. This doesn't make anything wrong, and it doesn't turn women into prostitutes. These are cultural norms, that take a lot of time and a bit of a paradigm shift, to change. We are already seeing a lot of change today, with some women now feeling empowered to ask the man out, and pay for dates.

 

However, there is still a broad uneasiness, particularly with those raised in more patriarchal societies, with the notion of having the woman propose, or even romance a man. This is again evident in the fact that many men still would not question the cultural norm that they should be providing on the first few dates.

[Christine52]

I only can specifically remember that happening with one lady I dated during my divorce. She definitely removed her wallet from her purse. The rest of it is all a blur of the past. It's not super-critical for me as I always pay for early dates anyway but I included my observations of how things went. IME, once I got past all the rejections, the dating process left no negative memories. Sometimes things worked out; sometimes not, but that was more about the people than the process.

 

I commend you I know of some men and women who are too critical when it comes to examining how others follow or don't follow their perceived proper processes. Contrary to our law system, I prefer to look at the intent of someone's words and actions rather than the impact, and give people the benefit of the doubt

 

Many of us seek roadmaps like this because the idea of dating someone we majorly like makes us want to vomit with nervousness lol!

[Algermas]

This doesn't make anything wrong, and it doesn't turn women into prostitutes.

 

Actually, it does.

[Christine52]

Then for every date I pay for, should I be calling the men prostitutes as well?

[Algermas]

....what does being financially compensated having anything to do with dating? Sorry I don't get quite your contribution in this response.

 

Paying for someone to have, for example, dinner with you by paying their bill is no different than paying them outright, I'd like to know what it is about a set of ovaries that entitles one to be financially compensated for their presence.

[Algermas]

Then for every date I pay for, should I be calling the men prostitutes as well?

 

If his likelyhood to continue dating is contigent on that fact then that's exactly what he is. An escort, technically.

[Feelsgoodman]

I always wondered this myself. I think it's time women just be honest with themselves (and men), and just name their price/time ratio. They make it pretty clear that they're more interested in his wallet, so keep it all the way honest. I can't understand how someone could feel entitled to another's currency. That's disgusting, and it makes dating nothing more than glorified prostitution.

That's why women always put down prostitutes and escorts. They see them as a threat, as hookers are honest and upfront about their rates and always provide the services that you pay for. "Good girls", on the other hand, want you to spend money on them with no guarantee of sex. Such behavior meets every legal definition of fraud.

[Sanman]

Proper Dating Etiquette goes like this:

 

Date One, Two, and Three:

 

1. Cheque comes to the table, BOTH people reach for their wallets. The guy offers to pay, and the woman smiles a great big smiles and thanks him for being so generous, and puts her wallet away.

2. Here comes movie after dinner. Guy offers to pay for ticket, again she thanks him but holds on to her wallet and offers to at least buy the popcorn.

 

After the first few dates, where the guy is paying for the major activities, but the girl is paying for the dessert coffee/popcorn/etc, then you move into the more steady/exclusive relationship. This is where you go dutch. When you're exclusive with each other, he will treat dinner one day, then the next date, she will treat dinner, etc. I personally don't like splitting the bill 50/50 as it kinda kills the mood. I prefer to pay for one activity on one date, and he can pick up the other activity.

 

In the case where she is more financially stable than he, just go on more financially affordable dates, so you don't have that awkwardness where the guy can barely afford the dinner.

 

See the point I would argue would be number two. If I paid for dinner, she can pay for the movie. We are, after all, equals.

 

When we get into a relationship it really is not that dutch, I frankly stop even keeping track of finances when I know a person is in a relationship for the right reasons.

 

However, my real issue with current dating is this (and I know others will argue with me) multi-dating and OLD is rampant in the my area at least (NYC). As such, the many daters do not go past 1-2 dates. In that case, you are now putting the financial burden on men for women that may have low interest in them. For example, if a woman accepts first dates from three men and then picks her favorite to continue seeing, these other men are out due to know fault of their own. Given the advent of such practices, I advocate going dutch until I know a woman is invested in me and the possibility of a serious relationship.

[musemaj11]

After spending 7 months in a different country and dating women here during that time, I have to say that cheapness is exclusive to American women.

 

The women here have opened my eyes that elsewhere there are places where people care more about love and whoever has more to share will gladly do so doesnt matter whether its at the beginning or at the end.

 

Whats ironic is that here the people are supposedly more traditional. So in my opinion being traditional has no correlation with being cheap. If you prefer to have your expenses paid for by someone else, you are not traditional. You are just a selfish individual.

 

Now I no longer hate all women. I just hate American women. What gross human beings they are.

[johan]

After spending 7 months in a different country and dating women here during that time, I have to say that cheapness is exclusive to American women.

 

The women here have opened my eyes that elsewhere there are places where people care more about love and whoever has more to share will gladly do so doesnt matter whether its at the beginning or at the end.

 

Whats ironic is that here the people are supposedly more traditional. So in my opinion being traditional has no correlation with being cheap. If you prefer to have your expenses paid for by someone else, you are not traditional. You are just a selfish individual.

 

Now I no longer hate all women. I just hate American women. What gross human beings they are.

 

Good to know.

[Sanman]

After spending 7 months in a different country and dating women here during that time, I have to say that cheapness is exclusive to American women.

 

The women here have opened my eyes that elsewhere there are places where people care more about love and whoever has more to share will gladly do so doesnt matter whether its at the beginning or at the end.

 

Whats ironic is that here the people are supposedly more traditional. So in my opinion being traditional has no correlation with being cheap. If you prefer to have your expenses paid for by someone else, you are not traditional. You are just a selfish individual.

 

Now I no longer hate all women. I just hate American women. What gross human beings they are.

 

I think what you don't like is American dating culture. Women come with all kinds of shapes, sizes, morals, values, and ideals. Most people are brought up into a custom and socialized to accept it. I can agree that American dating culture in its current incarnation is a bit broken. What really annoys me is when people tell me to accept a custom simply because we have been socialized to do so or because that is simply how they are accustomed to being treated. There was a time in the history of this country where having slaves was considered a normal and customary thing. It does not mean that it is right. In the same way, I have yet to see a cogent argument presented as to why I should pay to take out a virtual stranger. Give me a good argument and I will change my mind.

[Nicomis]

I think what you don't like is American dating culture. Women come with all kinds of shapes, sizes, morals, values, and ideals. Most people are brought up into a custom and socialized to accept it. I can agree that American dating culture in its current incarnation is a bit broken. What really annoys me is when people tell me to accept a custom simply because we have been socialized to do so or because that is simply how they are accustomed to being treated. There was a time in the history of this country where having slaves was considered a normal and customary thing. It does not mean that it is right. In the same way, I have yet to see a cogent argument presented as to why I should pay to take out a virtual stranger. Give me a good argument and I will change my mind.

Because they have what you want, and they have twisted the laws so that the only way you can get it is to convince them to give it to you. It's like legal prostitution with no guarantee of sex. Kind of a crappy deal for us huh?

[Sanman]

Because they have what you want, and they have twisted the laws so that the only way you can get it is to convince them to give it to you. It's like legal prostitution with no guarantee of sex. Kind of a crappy deal for us huh?

 

 

I've outlined my thoughts in much further detail throughout this thread and don't feel like repeating, but it is not that they have what I want and are twisting laws to get it. Rather, it is the expectation of women that men invest in them initially by paying for dates while having no interest in necessarily investing equally in some other way.