Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[fortyninethousand322]

I feel like this has been said before, but I feel like if a woman knows for sure that she has no intention of seeing me again I would hope that she would insist on paying. If she hasn't made up her mind yet or does want to see me again, I have no issues paying.

 

That said, I paid for my date's coffee last night (on accident to be honest, though I would have paid anyway). And she doesn't want to see me again. So there you go...

[the_entertainer1]

Not trying to be a total d*ck but seriously. This behavior is annoying. Its 2013, why should I pay for you when you want the right to work equally among men and not be financially dependent on him? Also, why would you hold out when you are on birth control? Defeats the purpose. This attitude among women today is not cool.

 

Because having sex with someone just because they paid for us, or gave us something - wouldn't that kind of be like prostitution?

 

No offense, but you do sound like a "total d*ick". I hear where you're coming from, but you shouldn't expect sex just because you paid for something. Most women I know (myself included) want a more emotional connection with a guy before having sex with them.

 

So I say: this attitude among men today is not cool!

[BluEyeL]

Women do not "put out" because having sex messes with their emotions and can get very easily emotionally hurt by sleeping with the wrong person. They have to sleep with someone who truly cares about them. It is not about birth control. As for paying for dates, it's been discussed, I have nothing to add. Sucks to be a man, pay for meals and the selfish b**** doesn't go to your apartment after --(rolleyes)

[Eggplant]

He gets the pleasure of my company.

[Eggplant]

Please note that they only need this deep connection if you're not a famous athlete, actor or business man.

 

If you look like a Spartacus extra the need for an emotional connection goes right out of the window.

 

As does the need to pay for dinner.

Emotional connection serves to bond parents long term. If he's superman, maybe her subconscious wants his baby with or without his emotional support. That's one mating strategy. But not all women do that -- behavior varies.

[BluEyeL]

Please note that they only need this deep connection if you're not a famous athlete, actor or business man.

 

If you look like a Spartacus extra the need for an emotional connection goes right out of the window.

 

As does the need to pay for dinner.

 

I guess that's true. So for you and others, my son, there are only two solutions:

 

1. Become a famous athlete, actor or surgeon, or at least be damn good looking so the ladies faint when they only look at you. These people give looks and/or status to get sex.

 

2. Pay for dates and treat women like real people. In other words, give love to get sex.

 

You have to give something, sex is not free for all d*cks. In fact, I don't know if you ever noticed: nothing is free in life.

[salparadise]

I mentioned this a few weeks ago, I ALWAYS offer to cover my costs, religiously. If, however a date accepted my offer to pay I'd be put- off. So I offer to pay, hoping that he is gentle-manly enough to refuse my offer, which is usually the case. It's not about the money, I can afford to take myself out to dinner, it's just about mere courtesy from a guy.

 

Ha, it's not about the money as long as you aren't the one paying! If you're going out to reasonably nice places the check can easily be a hundred bucks. Do that once or twice a week, you paying every time, and see how long it's not about the money!

 

Everything about gender roles has become equalized except this antiquated practice of the man always picking up the check, and the woman acting as if it's no big deal- unless he doesn't, in which case it's a big deal.

 

I'm dating a woman who makes some multiple of what I do, maybe 5X. I still pick up the checks at restaurants. Fortunately she has me over to her house for steaks and so forth, so it's not a necessity every time we see each other. Still, a restaurant bill is easily 3X more than a couple of nice steaks. Something is going to have to give- I can't keep doing this in the style to which she is accustomed. We're going to have to have a talk and I dread it. It would be a shame if a blossoming relationship has to end because a man's masculinity depends on the thickness of his wallet.

[Els]

Not going to comment on the actual topic, since I've found that this is one of the hardest topics on LS for people to live and let live with, in terms of preferences. Which explains the huge number of posts.

 

This stood out to me, though...

 

Ha, it's not about the money as long as you aren't the one paying! If you're going out to reasonably nice places the check can easily be a hundred bucks. Do that once or twice a week, you paying every time, and see how long it's not about the money!

 

Do you genuinely eat at $50/pp places once or TWICE every week?

 

I would think that people who actually do that are rich enough for the bill to really not matter. If you aren't, why splurge like that?

[salparadise]

This stood out to me, though...

 

Do you genuinely eat at $50/pp places once or TWICE every week?

 

I would think that people who actually do that are rich enough for the bill to really not matter. If you aren't, why splurge like that?

 

There certainly have been weeks when we did, though it's not exactly an established pattern.

 

Here's how it happens... This is a relatively new relationship. I'm in the process of meeting her friends, parents, etc. She tells me that a couple she's friends with wants to meet us for dinner friday night, what do I think... I say sure (so as not to be a stick in the mud), and then it turns out that this place where they're asking us to meet ain't no dive. We drink wine have appetizers, entrees and dessert. The check comes and it's $125. They always give the check to the man, so I quietly slip my card in the folder and it's done. I get a nice thank-you afterward. It would be completely awkward for her to have to pay in front of her friends, or even worse to split it. It would also be awkward to bring it up again later. But for me, I usually eat for a week on that amount of money. It's truly painful, and unsustainable, even though I don't live paycheck to paycheck.

 

The problem is that she's been a high earner for so long that she doesn't quite get it that not everyone can toss hundreds around. For her, a hundred is like pocket change, in a sense. She gives tens of thousands to "good causes" every year, pays for niece's and nephew's college tuition, etc., etc. She'd be surprised if she know how thrifty I can be sometimes. She knows cognitively that most people live on less, but she doesn't actually relate to what it feels like.

 

We also eat at less expensive restaurants sometimes but it's still going to be $50 a pop and even that is more than I really feel comfortable doing once or twice a week. We really enjoy each other a lot, and she's a down to earth kind of person in many ways. I hope we can figure out how to make it work.

[BluEyeL]

I think this is a problem of difference in income and lifestyle that needs to be ironed out. IMO men need to pay for the first couple of dates, not always, the girl can reciprocate after that. But it is still difficult when there is such significant income difference, she'll need to become sensitive to this. On the other hand, if she ends up paying all the time, you might feel bad yourself. I think you should take turns paying when you go out together, decide to go to places where you can afford to pay, when it is your turn to pay, and for larger groups, when you become more comfortable with each other, she could reimburse you after, now it's tough. I'm sure you'll work it out.

 

 

It's funny that in the culture I'm coming from, men often gave the cash to the woman to keep in her purse, so these issues with the men getting the bill are not so prevalent, he still gets the check maybe, but he tells her openly without a problem: "honey, give me some money" I remember, when I was very young, a college student, I went on a trip with my boyfriend and another guy friend. They both gave me all their cash to carry around in my purse and both were asking me for money when they wanted to pay for something, although only one of them was my boyfriend

[salparadise]

I think this is a problem of difference in income and lifestyle that needs to be ironed out. IMO men need to pay for the first couple of dates, not always, the girl can reciprocate after that. But it is still difficult when there is such significant income difference, she'll need to become sensitive to this. On the other hand, if she ends up paying all the time, you might feel bad yourself. I think you should take turns paying when you go out together, decide to go to places where you can afford to pay, when it is your turn to pay, and for larger groups, when you become more comfortable with each other, she could reimburse you after, now it's tough. I'm sure you'll work it out.

 

I think what you're suggesting is pretty much how it should be, and I'd be fine with it. She doesn't quite realize how painful it is for me, and the other part is that I'm not expressing it in any way––the opposite in fact, as I don't want to be viewed as too cheap or incapable of picking up the check as social protocol dictates. Interestingly, she did comment last week that she couldn't afford something (not date related), which I know to be a bunch of baloney... I wonder if she said that to sort of give me permission to say the same thing?

[Emilia]

Interestingly, she did comment last week that she couldn't afford something (not date related), which I know to be a bunch of baloney... I wonder if she said that to sort of give me permission to say the same thing?

Possibly. It's what I do when I downplay what I have when the man has less.

[crude]

So I offer to pay, hoping that he is gentle-manly enough to refuse my offer, which is usually the case. It's not about the money, I can afford to take myself out to dinner, it's just about mere courtesy from a guy.

 

Why can't this apply both ways? Can't a woman be womanly enough to pay for the night out? Women should learn to be courteous too. If a woman doesn't pay for dates, doesn't that make her cheap, a mooch, a leech, not a lady. Just saying that the man HAS to pay because he's a man isn't a real reason. Men should simply stop going out with women who feel entitled to watch another person pay the bill. I love how women say it's no big deal to pick up the tab (as long as the man is doing it), but if she had to, it'd be a story she'd tell her grandchildren. And to salparadise, you seem to think it's awkward for an affluent woman to pay a bill, awkward to point out that the woman has more spending power than you, but not so awkward to hurt yourself financially? If she's a nice person like you say, you need to tell her that when a man is much more affluent than a woman, he pays 100% of the bills, when they have equal resources he pays 98%, but you're poorer than her yet YOU pay 100%! If she doesn't comprehend that in a society that lets a woman be rich, she truly CAN pay a bill, then maybe she's not for you after all.

[salparadise]

And to salparadise, you seem to think it's awkward for an affluent woman to pay a bill, awkward to point out that the woman has more spending power than you, but not so awkward to hurt yourself financially? If she's a nice person like you say, you need to tell her that when a man is much more affluent than a woman, he pays 100% of the bills, when they have equal resources he pays 98%, but you're poorer than her yet YOU pay 100%! If she doesn't comprehend that in a society that lets a woman be rich, she truly CAN pay a bill, then maybe she's not for you after all.

 

Well, there is logic and then there's social protocol. We're older, not part of the anything-goes generation. I don't think of myself as poorer, just less affluent. It's probably as hard for her as it is for me, just in a different way. She's protecting my dignity, not being cheap or taking advantage. I have no doubt that if I said I can't afford this check that she'd take care of it in a heartbeat, but that's a pretty hard thing to say. She reciprocates in ways that seem acceptable to her, which I appreciate. Everyone's values, experiences, problems, reactions, etc., are part of their unique reality, which by definition is not the same as someone else's. You can't solve a problem for someone by telling them that it's invalid by a different reality. You have to meet them where they are and solutions have to be consistent with their paradigm. I think we're on the way to working it out. Thanks for your input.

Edited May 9, 2013 by salparadise

[JOYTOME]

It's the reason why I turn down some offers to go on dates...if I have absolutely no interest in a guy, I'd avoid going on a date with him and confine our interactions to what's app and blackberry messenger chats/the odd phone call. BUT some of them insist and push for dates, I'm a considerate person not a b*itch ( excuse my French, I don't typically curse) so I give in and I still offer to pay but they refuse to accept a contribution from my purse.

 

I feel like this has been said before, but I feel like if a woman knows for sure that she has no intention of seeing me again I would hope that she would insist on paying. If she hasn't made up her mind yet or does want to see me again, I have no issues paying.

 

That said, I paid for my date's coffee last night (on accident to be honest, though I would have paid anyway). And she doesn't want to see me again. So there you go...

[JOYTOME]

If you can't afford to eat in those restaurants, discuss it with her. Cut your coat according to your size, always. You have a legitimate claim; you genuinely can't afford to eat out in this restaurants twice a week, you've tried but it's affecting your finances. Your mindset is quite different from some of the guys involved in this thread who deliberately choose NOT to pay first few dates because they don't think it's important to make an effort anymore in this era.

 

The guys I go on dates with usually ask me to select my choice of restaurant and when faced with this task, I usually take into account the guy's financial position, also I usually recommend nice but not extra vagrant restaurants and when I'm not sure what to do, I tell him to make the selection themselves e.g " anywhere you suggest, I'm easy" or something like that and they usually make good selections. As a rule if thumb I typically will never suggest a restaurant that I couldn't personally afford...and even at that I'm still very considerate as regards the choice of restaurants I visit when I'm on a date and the food I order regardless of how wealthy he is e.g I wouldn't order a lobster or a bottle of champagne.

 

 

 

There certainly have been weeks when we did, though it's not exactly an established pattern.

 

Here's how it happens... This is a relatively new relationship. I'm in the process of meeting her friends, parents, etc. She tells me that a couple she's friends with wants to meet us for dinner friday night, what do I think... I say sure (so as not to be a stick in the mud), and then it turns out that this place where they're asking us to meet ain't no dive. We drink wine have appetizers, entrees and dessert. The check comes and it's $125. They always give the check to the man, so I quietly slip my card in the folder and it's done. I get a nice thank-you afterward. It would be completely awkward for her to have to pay in front of her friends, or even worse to split it. It would also be awkward to bring it up again later. But for me, I usually eat for a week on that amount of money. It's truly painful, and unsustainable, even though I don't live paycheck to paycheck.

 

The problem is that she's been a high earner for so long that she doesn't quite get it that not everyone can toss hundreds around. For her, a hundred is like pocket change, in a sense. She gives tens of thousands to "good causes" every year, pays for niece's and nephew's college tuition, etc., etc. She'd be surprised if she know how thrifty I can be sometimes. She knows cognitively that most people live on less, but she doesn't actually relate to what it feels like.

 

We also eat at less expensive restaurants sometimes but it's still going to be $50 a pop and even that is more than I really feel comfortable doing once or twice a week. We really enjoy each other a lot, and she's a down to earth kind of person in many ways. I hope we can figure out how to make it work.

[JOYTOME]

You have the option to not date women. Good luck with that...

 

Hah they're so delusional. I get better company from my guy friends who aren't as needy and have less drama

[clia]

There certainly have been weeks when we did, though it's not exactly an established pattern.

 

Here's how it happens... This is a relatively new relationship. I'm in the process of meeting her friends, parents, etc. She tells me that a couple she's friends with wants to meet us for dinner friday night, what do I think... I say sure (so as not to be a stick in the mud), and then it turns out that this place where they're asking us to meet ain't no dive. We drink wine have appetizers, entrees and dessert. The check comes and it's $125. They always give the check to the man, so I quietly slip my card in the folder and it's done. I get a nice thank-you afterward. It would be completely awkward for her to have to pay in front of her friends, or even worse to split it. It would also be awkward to bring it up again later. But for me, I usually eat for a week on that amount of money. It's truly painful, and unsustainable, even though I don't live paycheck to paycheck.

 

The problem is that she's been a high earner for so long that she doesn't quite get it that not everyone can toss hundreds around. For her, a hundred is like pocket change, in a sense. She gives tens of thousands to "good causes" every year, pays for niece's and nephew's college tuition, etc., etc. She'd be surprised if she know how thrifty I can be sometimes. She knows cognitively that most people live on less, but she doesn't actually relate to what it feels like.

 

We also eat at less expensive restaurants sometimes but it's still going to be $50 a pop and even that is more than I really feel comfortable doing once or twice a week. We really enjoy each other a lot, and she's a down to earth kind of person in many ways. I hope we can figure out how to make it work.

 

I believe it! The cost of dinners can really add up. It almost sneaks up on you in the beginning of the relationshp -- you want to spend time together, so you go out to eat, have cocktails, etc., and next thing you know you are dropping $100 or more a few times a week. It adds up really fast. I live in Chicago and my boyfriend and I could easily drop $100+ on dinner several times a week because there are so many great restaurants and we both love food. You take a bottle of wine ($40), two entrees ($20 each), an appetizer ($10), and a dessert to share ($10), and that's $100 before tax and tip, and actually a cheaper dinner.

 

How long have you been dating her sal? We started alternating paying the bill fairly early on -- probably by around a month in to the relationship. We both make good money, but dinners like that can really add up fast. I didn't feel right always letting him pick it up. And now that nice weather is back, we'll start grilling out more and having more dinners at home, so that helps. (We don't get as into cooking together in the winter for whatever reason...)

[JOYTOME]

This thread is a clear illustration of the extent to which men accord women increasingly less respect and consideration. When a man asks a woman on a date it's because he's trying to get to know her better, he finds her attractive etc (for some men they simply want to get laid), whatever your reasons may be for asking a woman out, point is you asked her to go on a date with you and surely you should appreciate the fact that she's taken out time to dress up and look nice, actually commit to the date and grace you with her presence and company. This alone is enough reason to express appreciation by guaranteeing her a lovely evening, even if it's clear she fancies you.

 

This is the type of treatment I receive, obviously no guarantee that the relationship will last nor does it affirm that the guy has good intentions for you ( a topic for another day). I have however, observed in my experience that the guys who didn't make a real effort ended up being the worst of them all.

[fortyninethousand322]

This thread is a clear illustration of the extent to which men accord women increasingly less respect and consideration. When a man asks a woman on a date it's because he's trying to get to know her better, he finds her attractive etc (for some men they simply want to get laid), whatever your reasons may be for asking a woman out, point is you asked her to go on a date with you and surely you should appreciate the fact that she's taken out time to dress up and look nice, actually commit to the date and grace you with her presence and company. This alone is enough reason to express appreciation by guaranteeing her a lovely evening, even if it's clear she fancies you.

 

This is the type of treatment I receive, obviously no guarantee that the relationship will last nor does it affirm that the guy has good intentions for you ( a topic for another day). I have however, observed in my experience that the guys who didn't make a real effort ended up being the worst of them all.

 

Doesn't that go both ways? Shouldn't men and women both appreciate that the other has taken time out of their day to grace you with their presence?

[fortyninethousand322]

It's the reason why I turn down some offers to go on dates...if I have absolutely no interest in a guy, I'd avoid going on a date with him and confine our interactions to what's app and blackberry messenger chats/the odd phone call. BUT some of them insist and push for dates, I'm a considerate person not a b*itch ( excuse my French, I don't typically curse) so I give in and I still offer to pay but they refuse to accept a contribution from my purse.

 

 

You could just you know, decline to go on a date with them. No matter how hard they push.

[JOYTOME]

Of course, which is why I try to create a pleasant atmosphere, which is why I make an effort to dress up and look nice, which is why I won't take advantage of the guy by ordering the most expensive meal on the menu, which is I'll sit, talk and laugh with you for a few hours, maybe even flirt a bit if there's chemistry, which is why I'll make an effort to establish a rapport, which is why I'll offer to chip in when the bill arrives, and then I'd hope that you're gentle-manly to say "no, I've got this, please let me pay" and refuse my money. Is this too much to ask of a 21st century man?

 

 

Doesn't that go both ways? Shouldn't men and women both appreciate that the other has taken time out of their day to grace you with their presence?

[JOYTOME]

It's easier said than done, some guys are really persistent. They don't care about spending money on a date, they're happy to spend tonnes of money taking this girl on numerous dates; they don't care about the cost, they just want to go on a date with this girl. Deep infatuation I guess.

 

 

 

You could just you know, decline to go on a date with them. No matter how hard they push.

[sillyanswer]

Of course, which is why I try to create a pleasant atmosphere, which is why I make an effort to dress up and look nice, which is why I won't take advantage of the guy by ordering the most expensive meal on the menu, which is I'll sit, talk and laugh with you for a few hours, maybe even flirt a bit if there's chemistry, which is why I'll make an effort to establish a rapport, which is why I'll offer to chip in when the bill arrives, and then I'd hope that you're gentle-manly to say "no, I've got this, please let me pay" and refuse my money. Is this too much to ask of a 21st century man?

 

You make it sound like you're doing the guy a favour by turning up, and then you still hope that he's going to pay.

[salparadise]

I believe it! The cost of dinners can really add up. It almost sneaks up on you in the beginning of the relationshp -- you want to spend time together, so you go out to eat, have cocktails, etc., and next thing you know you are dropping $100 or more a few times a week. It adds up really fast. I live in Chicago and my boyfriend and I could easily drop $100+ on dinner several times a week because there are so many great restaurants and we both love food. You take a bottle of wine ($40), two entrees ($20 each), an appetizer ($10), and a dessert to share ($10), and that's $100 before tax and tip, and actually a cheaper dinner.

 

How long have you been dating her sal? We started alternating paying the bill fairly early on -- probably by around a month in to the relationship. We both make good money, but dinners like that can really add up fast. I didn't feel right always letting him pick it up. And now that nice weather is back, we'll start grilling out more and having more dinners at home, so that helps. (We don't get as into cooking together in the winter for whatever reason...)

 

We've been dating three months now, but it doesn't seem like it. We're progressing slowly I guess, still feels new. I think I've been holding back because I wasn't sure if the income disparity was going to make it a non-starter. But apparently she likes me just for who I am, and we're of like minds in many ways. She doesn't have the attitude of superiority that some high income people tend to develop, which I really admire. You're right– it doesn't even take an exclusive restaurant to run up a $100+ bill. I enjoy food and wine a lot, but I'm thrifty by nature so I'm really going against type. I think we'll be ok though; she wouldn't be introducing me to friends and family if she wasn't feeling good about things. We're grilling out at her house tomorrow.