Consolidated Discussion - Paying for Dates

[JOYTOME]

Yep. when I force myself to go on a date with a guy I'm not interested in, Im pretty much trying to be nice. It doesn't really matter to me whether or not he pays because I'm not planning to be with him, BUT they insist on paying because it's what they're accustomed to. Im not going to physically wrestle them to accept my contribution.

 

You make it sound like you're doing the guy a favour by turning up, and then you still hope that he's going to pay.

[Els]

There certainly have been weeks when we did, though it's not exactly an established pattern.

 

Here's how it happens... This is a relatively new relationship. I'm in the process of meeting her friends, parents, etc. She tells me that a couple she's friends with wants to meet us for dinner friday night, what do I think... I say sure (so as not to be a stick in the mud), and then it turns out that this place where they're asking us to meet ain't no dive. We drink wine have appetizers, entrees and dessert. The check comes and it's $125. They always give the check to the man, so I quietly slip my card in the folder and it's done. I get a nice thank-you afterward. It would be completely awkward for her to have to pay in front of her friends, or even worse to split it. It would also be awkward to bring it up again later. But for me, I usually eat for a week on that amount of money. It's truly painful, and unsustainable, even though I don't live paycheck to paycheck.

 

The problem is that she's been a high earner for so long that she doesn't quite get it that not everyone can toss hundreds around. For her, a hundred is like pocket change, in a sense. She gives tens of thousands to "good causes" every year, pays for niece's and nephew's college tuition, etc., etc. She'd be surprised if she know how thrifty I can be sometimes. She knows cognitively that most people live on less, but she doesn't actually relate to what it feels like.

 

We also eat at less expensive restaurants sometimes but it's still going to be $50 a pop and even that is more than I really feel comfortable doing once or twice a week. We really enjoy each other a lot, and she's a down to earth kind of person in many ways. I hope we can figure out how to make it work.

 

My suggestion, in your particular case, is that you initiate some cheaper but creative activities.

 

For instance, you mentioned that she cooks for you sometimes. Well, why don't you do the same, replacing some of the $100 dinners with home-cooked food? Voila, not only money saved, but she'll probably be impressed.

 

That being said, I really don't understand how even 'less expensive restaurants' are $50 a pop. Are you sure you've explored all the options open to you? Must there absolutely be tip-top ambience EVERY time? Because some of the best-tasting food I've found have been in $15/pp places.

[Els]

I believe it! The cost of dinners can really add up. It almost sneaks up on you in the beginning of the relationshp -- you want to spend time together, so you go out to eat, have cocktails, etc., and next thing you know you are dropping $100 or more a few times a week. It adds up really fast. I live in Chicago and my boyfriend and I could easily drop $100+ on dinner several times a week because there are so many great restaurants and we both love food. You take a bottle of wine ($40), two entrees ($20 each), an appetizer ($10), and a dessert to share ($10), and that's $100 before tax and tip, and actually a cheaper dinner.

 

Eh. We both love food as well (or I do - bf jokes that I should ditch grad school to become a food reviewer), but honestly, to me part of loving food is experiencing and enjoying many different types of food. And food does not always need to be expensive to be good. The type of restaurant food you've mentioned is of a very specific variety. Why not venture towards other types?

 

For instance, we used to frequent a lovely Vietnamese place with decent ambience (quiet, polite and well-dressed waitresses, a wine list), that serves beef pho for $10 each. The beef is lovely and tender, with a gorgeous medium rare blush to it that even some expensive restaurants can't muster, the soup broth is amazing, a friend of mine says it's even better than the real deal in Vietnam. That's just $20 in total! If you want an appetizer/dessert, add $8, want a glass of wine each, add $15.

 

I'm not just saying this because I haven't tried 'really good food'. I've actually been to the fine dining places - $180/pp for the degustation menu, rated amongst the top 10 in this country. Of course, the food there is exquisite... but it's also a different sort of experience. And eating there twice every week would get quite old, even if we could afford it (which we can't).

 

There are usually plenty of lovely, cheaper places to dine if you're open to exploration.

[salparadise]

My suggestion, in your particular case, is that you initiate some cheaper but creative activities.

 

For instance, you mentioned that she cooks for you sometimes. Well, why don't you do the same, replacing some of the $100 dinners with home-cooked food? Voila, not only money saved, but she'll probably be impressed.

 

That being said, I really don't understand how even 'less expensive restaurants' are $50 a pop. Are you sure you've explored all the options open to you? Must there absolutely be tip-top ambience EVERY time? Because some of the best-tasting food I've found have been in $15/pp places.

 

We are doing some cheaper, creative things and I do cook some too. That run of several fairly expensive places happened to just come all at once due to some invitations, birthdays, etc. falling within a short time frame. I'm a decent cook and enjoy it, so that's definitely going to be part of the mix going forward.

 

If you take two $12pp entrees and add a couple of drinks each, with tax and tip you're looking at about $63 total bill. We ate Mexican a couple of weeks ago, about as affordable as it gets, and it was about $47 with one margarita each. Personally, cost notwithstanding, I enjoy restaurants a lot more if we're not doing it too frequently. I think we'll be doing a lot more cooking and grilling.

[clia]

Eh. We both love food as well (or I do - bf jokes that I should ditch grad school to become a food reviewer), but honestly, to me part of loving food is experiencing and enjoying many different types of food. And food does not always need to be expensive to be good. The type of restaurant food you've mentioned is of a very specific variety. Why not venture towards other types?

 

For instance, we used to frequent a lovely Vietnamese place with decent ambience (quiet, polite and well-dressed waitresses, a wine list), that serves beef pho for $10 each. The beef is lovely and tender, with a gorgeous medium rare blush to it that even some expensive restaurants can't muster, the soup broth is amazing, a friend of mine says it's even better than the real deal in Vietnam. That's just $20 in total! If you want an appetizer/dessert, add $8, want a glass of wine each, add $15.

 

I'm not just saying this because I haven't tried 'really good food'. I've actually been to the fine dining places - $180/pp for the degustation menu, rated amongst the top 10 in this country. Of course, the food there is exquisite... but it's also a different sort of experience. And eating there twice every week would get quite old, even if we could afford it (which we can't).

 

There are usually plenty of lovely, cheaper places to dine if you're open to exploration.

 

I didn't mean to insinuate that there aren't any cheap places to eat. Of course there are, and we've found some hidden gems that we've added to our rotation. And of course you can reduce your bill by eliminating the alcohol, ordering cheaper entrees, or eliminating appetizers or desserts. My point was merely that you can easily rack up a huge dinner bill without even feeling like you are being particularly extravagant. In the early stages of dating, I think it is easy to do this, too, particularly in a city like Chicago where there are hundreds if not thousands of really awesome restaurants with great food and ambiance to choose from. I'll admit that the boyfriend and I went overboard in the early days of our relationship hopping from restaurant to restaurant (although we could afford it so it wasn't a big deal), so I get where sal is coming from.

 

The example costs I gave is very typical (and in fact probably an underestimate) of the prices at the popular and/or happening restaurants here in Chicago. Entrees usually run $10-30, and these aren't even really what you would refer to as "destination" type (i.e. like Alinea or Girl and the Goat) or fancy restaurants. They are just the typical happening restaurants you go to for a night out. I'm not sure what you mean by the food I've mentioned being of a specific variety? This applies to all types of food and restaurants -- seafood, steak, mexican, italian, sushi, chinese, american, spanish, etc. (Although steak will obviously be more expensive, and even sushi at certain places.) It costs what it costs. Yeah, you can find just as good for cheaper sometimes, but a lot of times the ambiance or location isn't so great. Heck, even going to a casual restaurant or bar and getting a couple of beers and a burger apiece will easily run $40-50. Even in your example about the cheap Vietnamese place if you add in wine you are up to almost $40. Unfortunately, it's tough to get a glass of wine in Chicago for less than $10! (We went to Bin 36 the other night, each got one flight of wine and ordered one cheese plate and...$50 later...). Even when I go out with my friends my share of the bill usually runs $40-$50.

 

So, to bring it back around to the topic, I feel for guys on the paying thing, because it can easily get out of hand. I always do just drinks for a first date to try to keep it less costly until we decide we like each other, and then I will usually start picking up the bill sporadically by the third or fourth date, and then alternating paying within a month or so. I look at it this way -- we can go out more if we take turns paying!

[Els]

Thanks for the clarification, guys.

 

I was just reminded of this thread by reading an FB status on a friend's wall. Apparently the girl went out with a guy she'd just started seeing for a date at the mall; he picked her up, drove her to the mall... and then insisted on parking about half a mile away in a free carpark, even though she said she was willing to pay for the parking. Poor girl trekked the half mile in stiletto heels until one of them broke, after which she saw red, demanded compensation for the heels from him, then stomped off and never saw him again.

 

I'm not even sure what to classify this as, although I found it pretty darn hilarious. Cheap, definitely, but cheap AND with a huge ego to boot, since he could not even accept her insistence to pay. Odd fellow.

[sillyanswer]

I went on a date yesterday. We went for a walk. It was free. But.. who should pay for that?!

[Drseussgrrl]

Men who are cheap right out the gate are going to withhold in other ways.

 

Nobody likes a tightwad. You take coupons to the grocery store, not on a first date with a woman you're trying to woo. Come on dude have some pride.

[Drseussgrrl]

Seriously? We're in a recession. Reality check more than ever before people in USA are on food stamps.

 

You're too cheap to pay your own way. You said nobody likes a tightwad so you don't like yourself? Who said anything about woo?

I do have pride, if I want to spend my money it will be on my nieces thank you. I'm not going to waste my money on a complete stranger who thinks she can get something for nothing. Talk about laziness.

 

Just be honest. You're broke. Stuff happens; I get it.

 

 

But don't turn this around on women. It's an age old dating ritual. If you're asking me out, you can treat me.

 

 

It's obvious based on your other posts the disdain you have for women so I'm not surprised you wouldn't spring for a burger or a movie ticket.

Edited May 13, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Roadkill007]

lol canuck and seuss, your dispute reminds me of weird al's "whatever you like" song

 

 

 

Personally, I wouldn't coupon my first date with someone either. Then again, I don't ask women out on first dates with such frequency that it'd be a problem financially

[Infnitysign]

I stopped at the part that said jewish.

[Drseussgrrl]

I'm broke? Yeah ok.

Maybe you're broke? Like this woman?

 

If you want old dating ritual then you should quit your job live with parents and don't have sex until marriage.

Woman Used Match.com Dates For $1200 A Month In Free Dinners | The Mary Sue

 

There you go with your crazy examples again. Kind of like the one you posted in the dog thread. Is the only way you know to debate is to dig up insane stories on the 'net to prove your point?

 

I'm an adult and can take care of myself. And yes, I pitch in on dates. I went to a show last week with the fella I'm dating and picked up our bar tab.

[crude]

 

 

But don't turn this around on women. It's an age old dating ritual. If you're asking me out, you can treat me.

 

 

It's obvious based on your other posts the disdain you have for women so I'm not surprised you wouldn't spring for a burger or a movie ticket.

 

You women make sure you never ask a man out, so you never have to pay. And how little respect do you show men if you won't spring for a burger or movie, and just sit there watching the chump always pay. Women used to be men's chattel, that's over, and so is the ritual of the man paying.

[Drseussgrrl]

You women make sure you never ask a man out, so you never have to pay. And how little respect do you show men if you won't spring for a burger or movie, and just sit there watching the chump always pay. Women used to be men's chattel, that's over, and so is the ritual of the man paying.

 

Not according to the men I date. I have to basically force the guy I'm dating to allow me to pay here and there when we're out. But he begrudgingly lets me.

 

It's no surprise, either, that the same dudes on here who scoff at paying for dates are the same ones who think chivalry is stupid.

 

Let me ask you - how's that working out for you? Because I'm guessing you couldn't even get a woman to AGREE to go out with you in the first place.

[Drseussgrrl]

It's called never ending learning something people don't get. The posts I made on dog thread is scientific and logical.

 

 

You can't even win a debate so you have to bring up something else.

 

LOL Bar tab how classy.

 

Why isn't that classy? Do you not drink? I was happy to get his crown on the rocks and bring it to him. We ended up racking up over $100 that night. Worth every penny.

 

I'm sorry, Captain Romance - what would you consider "classy"? A four-course steak dinner? We're not at that point in our relationship.

[crude]

 

Let me ask you - how's that working out for you? Because I'm guessing you couldn't even get a woman to AGREE to go out with you in the first place.

 

I prefer going out with friends I already know, from school or women I've met through the years. They have boyfriends and lose them, get married and divorced etc, and I'm there to fill the gaps. I don't want to get married, and don't want to date a stranger who comes in with the idea that the man has to pay because she insists. I'm a guy who wants friends and to get laid, and the formality and rigidity of dating doesn't appeal to me. I always give a speech that I just want the woman to do her share and plan and pay for every other date to show she's not just there for a free ride and appreciates my company. If her attitude is that the man always pays, then I have sprinter's speed, and can run out, leaving her to pay for everything, including a cab.

[Drseussgrrl]

I prefer going out with friends I already know, from school or women I've met through the years. They have boyfriends and lose them, get married and divorced etc, and I'm there to fill the gaps. I don't want to get married, and don't want to date a stranger who comes in with the idea that the man has to pay because she insists. I'm a guy who wants friends and to get laid, and the formality and rigidity of dating doesn't appeal to me. I always give a speech that I just want the woman to do her share and plan and pay for every other date to show she's not just there for a free ride and appreciates my company. If her attitude is that the man always pays, then I have sprinter's speed, and can run out, leaving her to pay for everything, including a cab.

 

Nobody is saying that men have to pay for EVERYTHING. Sheesh. I don't INSIST that men pay for me. But if he asks me out and we split the check, I immediately think of him as more like a buddy, not someone trying to win me over.

 

But, from your own admission, you don't care about that anyway and would rather just have meaningless hookups, so carry on.

[crude]

Women set themselves up as objects of great beauty, desire, and value who have to be wooed and won over by the disposable, mindless dopes who have to jump through hoops like trained monkeys to capture the great prize by impressing her through attention, compliments, and $$$. Gee, I wonder why I don't fall in love with these goddesses.

[Drseussgrrl]

Women set themselves up as objects of great beauty, desire, and value who have to be wooed and won over by the disposable, mindless dopes who have to jump through hoops like trained monkeys to capture the great prize by impressing her through attention, compliments, and $$$. Gee, I wonder why I don't fall in love with these goddesses.

 

Probably because you don't try. *shrugs*

[Els]

I'm a huge fan of coupons, and we use them all the time now. But on a first date? C'mon, so corny.

[Keenly]

I treat women like ladies until they stop acting like ladies. Or they don't understand the roles of their counterpart, the gentlemen. If I open the door for you, don't freak out on me with this "I CAN DO IT MYSELF I DON'T NEED YOU" Crap. If I offer to pay, you can offer to chip in / cover it, and often times I'll roll with it, but if I insist, don't fight it, I'm not doing it for you, I'm doing it for me. Understand that anytime we go somewhere together, I am driving. Every. Single. Time.

 

 

Respect the role of being a lady, and I'll be more than happy to be your gentleman.

[escafeld]

I'm honestly sick of guys whining about paying for dates. If it bothers you that much, then don't date. If you want to whine that you can't get laid then, go buy an escort and at least get guaranteed sex for your money. That or work your way into being some super hot playa who can seduce women home for sex without dating.

 

So the transactional analysis says in your world men are effectively paying for sex whether they're in a relationship or meeting escorts? The implication being women are doing men a favour by having sex with them when otherwise they'd be reluctant?

 

Don't women enjoy sex as much as men? What would happen if men stopped having this attitude towards women and dating? Would women stop having sex? I doubt it, they'd come to appreciate that gender roles have changed-women have money, they have careers-they're not the dependent needy creatures they perhaps once used to be, those women who still believe they are are subjecting themselves to obsolescence and/or compromised relationships where the imperative is a financial one with men they don't truly love.

[escafeld]

Why is the onus on the man to pay for everything or else he's cheap? Why doesn't the woman own up and pay the dinner bill, why doesn't the woman plan a trip to show the man she cares? It always seems to be one sided. If someone is old fashioned, then surely women shouldn't have any decent jobs or independence, and should be considered mens' chattel. If that seems wrong, then women should certainly pay equally. It doesn't have to be Dutch, they can take turns treating each other. If a women really believes the world somehow owes her a living because of her gender, then she surely will never make a decent partner, just a mooch.

 

I agree with the sentiment of your post although it appears a little harsh!

 

My last relationship was with a woman who appeared nice and friendly but it was clear she had certain 'expectations'. She couldn't do cheap even though her business had folded and the outlook was looking quite bleak..but she still had her eye on expensive handbags, holidays etc..and would scoff at me for offer shopping, missing the point that money saved could be spent on other nice things we could do together.

 

I loved her dearly because superficially she ticked many boxes but this really grated on me and I could see red flags flying as she didn't seem to commit to me 100% and lied frequently, I suspect because other men were always circling her who would provide the trinkets etc..at least in the short term to get their leg over!

 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to take care of your partner and someone I was in a long term relationship with I'd give my last penny to, but when that's the requirement from outset it's a very unattractive quality in a potential partner.

[fadedblues]

I am big time into going dutch, i think its respectful.I don't think its nice to not even offer to pay, I would always refuse but its nice to be offered.

[Els]

He also encourages the woman that he dates to spend her money on expensive things that she doesn't want.

 

I really don't get this part.

 

What sort of expensive things are these? Why would someone even try to convince their partner to buy expensive things for themselves that they don't want? Is this a control issue?