Next steps

[beachbabe82]

I also see where you're making plans for his girls. You mentioned down the road them staying over, and when they're in college possibly wanting to stay in your condo:confused: If that's not a plan....And they're only 10 and 13 now so it seems premature to be planning out 5-10 years.

 

Point is you should let this all unravel slowly and without your influence if you have a hope in hell of these girls accepting you let alone liking you. Sure there's a possibilty they'll welcome you with open arms, but there's a stronger possibility they won't want to have anything to do with you, especially if they ever find out the truth and the truth has a way of being found out. Unless they thought their parents were better off apart they aren't going to be happy about the split and it's going to take a lot of time and patience for them to adjust.

 

Hopefully that's still on topic, if not since the Q was open to anyone , I'm very happy being married. If it wouldn't have been right I would have preferred staying single, bc I created my own happiness. So I never would have put up with sharing period.

 

You mistook my post about my current living situation as planning for his kids. My comment was that I had a 2 bedroom condo and I plan to have a child with Billy. I wouldn't want his kids to sleep on a couch if they should decide to visit their father when he is with me in my condo. I feel like they should have their own space and not have their own beds. I would keep my condo no matter what when Billy and I are together and if they want to stay in it when they are older, they are welcome to. I never said they had to. That's silly.

 

You can try to poo poo my future plans,but I actually think it is smart to be pro active and be thinking ahead. Don't others do that? No other OW plan for the future?

 

Did you marry the MM?

 

Why are you implying that I am trying to control something or trying to influence something? You couldn't be further from the truth. Bily's actions show me that he is serious about a future with me. I think I explained pretty clearly how I leave the parenting of Billy's kids to him and his wife. I will be their stepmom when we marry, but that doesn't mean I will be their parent. I will be a friend and another adult in their life. That's it.

 

I just know what I want and how long I will wait.

[4321sn]

You mistook my post about my current living situation as planning for his kids. My comment was that I had a 2 bedroom condo and I plan to have a child with Billy. I wouldn't want his kids to sleep on a couch if they should decide to visit their father when he is with me in my condo. I feel like they should have their own space and not have their own beds. I would keep my condo no matter what when Billy and I are together and if they want to stay in it when they are older, they are welcome to. I never said they had to. That's silly.

 

You can try to poo poo my future plans,but I actually think it is smart to be pro active and be thinking ahead. Don't others do that? No other OW plan for the future?

 

Did you marry the MM?

 

Why are you implying that I am trying to control something or trying to influence something? You couldn't be further from the truth. Bily's actions show me that he is serious about a future with me. I think I explained pretty clearly how I leave the parenting of Billy's kids to him and his wife. I will be their stepmom when we marry, but that doesn't mean I will be their parent. I will be a friend and another adult in their life. That's it.

 

I just know what I want and how long I will wait.

 

It is okay to make plans...but plans change. Both of you can go into this with an idea of how you would like it to go but prepare your self for the likelihood that things will be probably much more difficult than you ever imagined.

 

When MM and I met 3 years ago (as I stated in a previous post), We both thought that we would have been married after year two...that is laughable now. We often joke about how naieve we were! Marriages take a long time to end. Neither my boyfriend's divorce nor mine is final. Mine has been going on two and a half years and his for over a year. Add children into the mix and there's another aspect that you must consider. My BF's children don't even know about our affair but they are pissed that he moved out and is divorcing their mother. He has struggled to work on mending his relationship with them. Often he is preoccupied with how they are feeling and I know that it's important for him to focus on them. The children are the priority...NOT the fact that we want to get married.

 

Just now we are finally getting to an ok place. Not great...but we are a work in progress. We lived together...there was so much stress from our divorces and our children that we decided he should get his own place. We didn't see each other for several weeks and things were strained. Now we are taking it slowly as we should have. What I have learned is that what we wanted...what our "plan" was, was contingent upon many many external factors...

 

I guess what I am saying and other posters as well is that you are getting way ahead of yourself. To be safe I wouldn't call them plans...I'd call them hopes...I truly hope that my BF and I will remain together and marry someday. However making plans only serves to set us up for disappointment...

[truthbetold]

You mistook my post about my current living situation as planning for his kids. My comment was that I had a 2 bedroom condo and I plan to have a child with Billy. I wouldn't want his kids to sleep on a couch if they should decide to visit their father when he is with me in my condo. I feel like they should have their own space and not have their own beds. I would keep my condo no matter what when Billy and I are together and if they want to stay in it when they are older, they are welcome to. I never said they had to. That's silly.

 

You can try to poo poo my future plans,but I actually think it is smart to be pro active and be thinking ahead. Don't others do that? No other OW plan for the future?

 

Did you marry the MM?

 

Why are you implying that I am trying to control something or trying to influence something? You couldn't be further from the truth. Bily's actions show me that he is serious about a future with me. I think I explained pretty clearly how I leave the parenting of Billy's kids to him and his wife. I will be their stepmom when we marry, but that doesn't mean I will be their parent. I will be a friend and another adult in their life. That's it.

 

I just know what I want and how long I will wait.

 

To me you're splitting hairs. I still see it as "planning" and yes I do understand wanting to plan. However in an affair situation it seems pointless. It's tough enough to plan things in a normal relationship. Speaking from experience it's hard enough to plan things with my own kids. I just think for your situation you will need to be more spontaneous. If planning is something you need to do, you may want to think on that seriously that this situation is going to provide a lot of frustration for you.

 

No I did not marry a MM. As I said I wouldn't involve myself or insert myself in someone else's relationship. It's not just OW or BS's that can post here, some of us are just concerned citizens. I don't like to see women lose their self respect and be in knots over love. Because that's not love. Love doesn't involve confusion. Building happiness on someone else's pain "generally" doesn't work. It may for the short term, but the hurts caused need to be reconciled.

 

4321 said it best, and she had 2 excellent posts. I'm not the only one that sees you are trying to plan and we're just saying guard your heart and slow down.

[Silly_Girl]

I don't think she is too confused.....

 

Who? Sorry. TBT or BB?

[Radagast]

So you and him got married right after the divorce? Wow! That was quick!! Not to be crass, but we're you pregnant? How long we're ya'll in an affair?

 

I was separated from my ex-wife for a year before the divorce was finalised. For six months I lived alone with my children. Then my then-lover and I moved in together and once the divorce was finalised we got married. It was not "quick" at all. If my ex-wife had not tried every trick in the book to delay and draw out the divorce it would have happened a lot faster. No, my wife was not pregnant. We married as soon as we could because we had already been engaged for more than a year and wanted to get on with our life together. The affair was about three years.

[woinlove]

I've been reading here foe a bit. I think I am seeing stuff like some of us OW are content to stay in an relationship with a MM until the bad outweighs the good.

 

NOT ME!!!

 

I want the marriage. I want the being together, living together, sharing bank accounts, sharing our lives completely!

 

Those that are in an affair and those that were in an affair, are you/were you content to just be the OW? Do you/did you want marriage? If your AP comes to you, divorced, and offered marriage, would you want that or would you turn that down? I feel like so many OW on here don't want marriage, but I wonder if that is just their stance now, since the MM is still married to his wife? It seems to me like so many put down marriage . Why?

 

I want to be married to him. I want him out of his marriage and us to be married! I want our family and friends to celebrate our love. I want us to share every part of our lives. I want kids with him (or at least one). I know not everyone wants that (kids with the MM).

 

How do you feel (and please know this post is open to everyone)??? Do you want marriage because of the love you share or are you content to just not have him/her married?

 

I don't get the impression that so many put down marriage. I think the OW/OM who really are not interested in M and prefer to be in an A are a small minority. I think what we see here more is putting down BSs and perhaps that can look like putting down M, when really it is just putting down marriages to the BS specifically. Putting down BSs can be understood, since the BS may be seen as standing in the way of the A being an out in the open R and also one might want to dismiss BSs because then that dismisses the party being primarily hurt and deceived by the A. It could relieve guilt to think the BS deserves this.

 

In my case, I really was not interested in M while in an A, but I think that there are many, maybe even most, OW who are more like yourself. In your case, MM is separated and so M to you becomes a greater possibility than in a case where MM is still trying to keep the A secret from the BW and trying to keep his M intact. In that case, I think it is part of human nature, to not focus on wanting to marry him too much because that possibility is too uncertain.

 

I hope everything works out well for you.

[woinlove]

What you say here is not the case for me at least. The BS in my case is a warm, nice, gentle woman who has done nothing to deserve to be in the situation she is in now. Life is not always fair. We all have to deal with many ordeals during our time here on earth. That's life, and thus I feel no guilt. I am not betraying anyone.

 

When it comes to marriage, I believe many OW/OM with me have seen the negative consequences marriage can bring with it to a man/woman who is stuck in limbo between the marriage and the EMR. Thus it is hard-learned experience that makes us negative towards marriage, and in particular to marriage with our present partners, the WS. Why would I want to get married and risk ending up in the same situation as the present BS with the WS once again being unable to get off the fence? These men/women often have a strong sense of duty and obligation, so the less they promise the better. They need to feel they are in a relationship of their own free will, not because they once made a promise.

 

It's not often we see the BW described positively here beyond the initial stages of an A, so that is a nice change.

 

Marriage is a legal contract (and, for some, a religious contract) and - most importantly - what the two people make of it. So, personally, I would still put the focus on the individual and not the marriage, per se. If an individual sees their marriage as a duty, obligation, social status, whatever, that is their choice and it says something about them. However an individual views their marriage is really saying something about that individual. And it can be telling something that is positive, negative, mixed or neutral.

 

I don't quite get your last point about free will vs promise. I assume the promise did not include an EMA, so really how strong can the pull from a promise be? I know some countries in the world have people living lives with no free will, but those of us fortunate to live in more enlightened countries, do have free will. In that case, someone who feels they are in a M with no free will, is really in a cage of their own making, IMO.

[stillwater]

Totally agree with you. Neither would I. I'm not in the habit of babysitting anybody, nor saving them from themselves. Quite the opposite, which is why I don't want any marriage vows keeping my partner in place.

 

Except your MM's vows AREN'T keeping him in place. I mean, he's having an affair, right?

 

MW always said something like that too. She made a promise to be with her H, so she couldn't leave. All I could think was, well you made a promise to not f other guys too, so clearly promises don't really mean a whole lot to you.

[MissBee]

Except your MM's vows AREN'T keeping him in place. I mean, he's having an affair, right?

 

MW always said something like that too. She made a promise to be with her H, so she couldn't leave. All I could think was, well you made a promise to not f other guys too, so clearly promises don't really mean a whole lot to you.

 

This is true...

 

You can break one part of the vow but not the other? If you break one part, not forsaking all others (if that was part of it), then might as well break it all. If you have no guilt about an ongoing A...I'm sure you will get over the guilt of divorcing.

[whichwayisup]

Totally agree with you. Neither would I. I'm not in the habit of babysitting anybody, nor saving them from themselves. Quite the opposite, which is why I don't want any marriage vows keeping my partner in place.

 

So if your MM finally decided to divorce his wife and then he asked you to marry him, you'd say no?

 

I bet though if their marriage ended and he was all yours, you would expect faithness, monogamy and committment from him.

[Got it]

So if your MM finally decided to divorce his wife and then he asked you to marry him, you'd say no?

 

I bet though if their marriage ended and he was all yours, you would expect faithness, monogamy and committment from him.

 

What does that have to do with trinity's comment?

 

We expect faithfulness, monogamy and commitment from each other based on the expectations of our relationship and for our marriage. Our based relationships have translated into lessons and revised expectations for our future relationships but one is not directly tied to the other.

[jwi71]

Steps he has taken:

 

 

Separated from his wife as of January 29, 2012

Has interviewed 2 possible attorneys. He has a 3rd interview on May 29.

He has spoken to his children (ages 10 and 13)

Has been in family counseling since March 20. They go weekly.

In our area, a couple with children has to be legally separated a year prior to filing for divorce.

 

These are positive steps.

I would suggest learning about D law in your area. It appears the one year clock hasn't started if I read correctly. It's one year once they file right? Or one year where they prove separate residences?

Do NOT involve yourself in their D (but learn enough so you can gauge progress).

By spoken to his children, do you know what he said? Does his stbxw know about you? His kids? If they already know he is leaving to be with you, I bet they could file for D and cite adultery as the cause. Often adultery eliminates waiting periods.

The family counseling is great. I'd hope/suggest IC for himself.

 

At an opportune point, ask him how HE failed in the M.

His reply will be telling.

 

Good luck, the transition from A to M is brutal.

[whichwayisup]

What does that have to do with trinity's comment?

 

We expect faithfulness, monogamy and commitment from each other based on the expectations of our relationship and for our marriage. Our based relationships have translated into lessons and revised expectations for our future relationships but one is not directly tied to the other.

 

This was a question for her directly. Confused me a bit, the part she mentioned,

 

Quite the opposite, which is why I don't want any marriage vows keeping my partner in place.

 

That is why I asked her my question.

[beenburned]

Trinity,

 

Was your MM's marriage an arranged marriage by the parents?(due to local customs)

 

If so, I think this is what is causing the confusion, as in most countries marriages are based on love and free will.(not forced)

[nofool4u]

I've been reading here foe a bit. I think I am seeing stuff like some of us OW are content to stay in an relationship with a MM until the bad outweighs the good.

 

NOT ME!!!

 

I want the marriage.

 

Why do you want marriage to someone that cheats? Oh I know you think he won't cheat on you, but you don't live with him every day. You aren't old news to him....yet.

 

If they cheat with you, they'll cheat on you. Just a matter of time before they get bored in being with the same person for long.

Edited June 1, 2012 by nofool4u
read another post that answered the question

[whichwayisup]

I expect faithfulness, monogamy and commitment today. I don't need marriage for that.

 

I do need marriage to get another last name. Hmm, maybe I should say yes anyway just to get a different last name? I don't really care for mine.

Remember that TV show Trading Places? The host of the show, Paige, well her fiancee's last name was Page. Now she's Paige Page!

 

I do agree, you don't need marriage for the above 3 mentioned. If someone is going to be unfaithful, a ring on the finger won't stop them..Nothing will.

 

Why "today"? Why not forever? Just curious.

[whichwayisup]

Neo's past makes me more reluctant to marry him than to marry any other man. And since I don't care that much for marriage to start with...

 

I can see why. But with that said, doesn't mean you need to marry him but if you two end up together ( he divorces his wife and you become the only woman in his life) how can you fully trust him, expect total monogmy (think I spelled that wrong) when he has shown you in the past and present how good he is a keeping a double life without his wife knowing? Sorry I know this is slightly off topic but a person who lives two lives and one woman knows of both, the other (wife) is kept in the dark, when the time comes she finds out, all hell will break loose..

[Got it]

I can see why. But with that said, doesn't mean you need to marry him but if you two end up together ( he divorces his wife and you become the only woman in his life) how can you fully trust him, expect total monogmy (think I spelled that wrong) when he has shown you in the past and present how good he is a keeping a double life without his wife knowing? Sorry I know this is slightly off topic but a person who lives two lives and one woman knows of both, the other (wife) is kept in the dark, when the time comes she finds out, all hell will break loose..

 

How does a BS reconcile after finding out about a LTA? How does he/she expect monogamy again? How does he/she find peace in the relationship? How does he/she find trust?

 

If a BS can reconcile again after being the one directly cheated on why is it a far reach that a OP can have trust.

[whichwayisup]

Comparing an affair relationship to a marriage relationship is apples and oranges. I'm asking Trin about her situation, not all OW.

[Got it]

Comparing an affair relationship to a marriage relationship is apples and oranges. I'm asking Trin about her situation, not all OW.

 

How? Are the elements of trust different in people based on their marital status? Does somehow trust develop or not based on something external? Having had a marriage and an affair I beg to differ.

 

Why would you only want one OW's answer on this? If you are truly curious I would think more opinions would help you with this confusion.

[whichwayisup]

How? Are the elements of trust different in people based on their marital status? Does somehow trust develop or not based on something external? Having had a marriage and an affair I beg to differ.

 

Why would you only want one OW's answer on this? If you are truly curious I would think more opinions would help you with this confusion.

 

Why does me asking Trinity a question directly to her, bother you so much? I was curious about her situation since she brought something up that I was genuinally curious about (again, in her situation), that's all. No need to take a shot at me.

[MissBee]

A relationship is a relationship is a relationship.

 

I think many would disagree...even Loveshack and how it divides its discussion categories

[MissBee]

How? Are the elements of trust different in people based on their marital status? Does somehow trust develop or not based on something external? Having had a marriage and an affair I beg to differ.

 

Why would you only want one OW's answer on this? If you are truly curious I would think more opinions would help you with this confusion.

 

How is trust developed outside of external things or without them being included? When I meet anyone, a man I'm going to date or potential friend, I don't trust them just based on some mysterious internal thing. I trust them by who I find them to be, how they act, actions I see them perform, things they tell me about their life etc. A man who embezzles at his company, that is external, but knowing this about him doesn't foster any trust for me personally. I don't just care about how you make me feel or how you act towards me, but who you are as a person, when you're not trying to impress me.

 

Asking if marital status makes the element of trust different between people seems to imply that it is ridiculous to think this. Yet, marital status isn't the problem. An affair often includes has a whole lot of other things that in other life circumstances people would consider not to be stellar character traits...that is what makes the difference. It's not just whether one is single, divorced or married - all more or less innocuous markers. Divorced or married are neutral markers, although divorce can be stigmatized, but more or less it is neutral.... "in an affair" is not one. One can argue why it should also be neutral, but one in an affair is also considered a cheater. It's not an neutral category. That is why for many people the element of trust would be different and it's not simply marital status...which sounds very innocent, unassuming and neutral. When someone says they are married or divorced there is not much to be assumed about them, or you have to stretch to assume some things...when one is in an affair, more often than not, it doesn't take much to imagine that they are lying, deceiving, possibly gaslighting, endangering someone's health etc daily. Yes some As may not be this way, some may include less or ore lying etc...but quite often most involve one or many of those negatively viewed actions. It makes sense to me why in the latter case people would assume that trust becomes a more problematic category...and for many APs who end up together, this does became an area of concern that they have to overcome..and some never overcome it.

Edited June 2, 2012 by MissBee

[jlola]

How is trust developed outside of external things or without them being included? When I meet anyone, a man I'm going to date or potential friend, I don't trust them just based on some mysterious internal thing. I trust them by who I find them to be, how they act, actions I see them perform, things they tell me about their life etc. A man who embezzles at his company, that is external, but knowing this about him doesn't foster any trust for me personally. I don't just care about how you make me feel or how you act towards me, but who you are as a person, when you're not trying to impress me.

 

Asking if marital status makes the element of trust different between people seems to imply that it is ridiculous to think this. Yet, marital status isn't the problem. An affair often includes has a whole lot of other things that in other life circumstances people would consider not to be stellar character traits...that is what makes the difference. It's not just whether one is single, divorced or married - all more or less innocuous markers. Divorced or married are neutral markers, although divorce can be stigmatized, but more or less it is neutral.... "in an affair" is not one. One can argue why it should also be neutral, but one in an affair is also considered a cheater. It's not an neutral category. That is why for many people the element of trust would be different and it's not simply marital status...which sounds very innocent, unassuming and neutral. When someone says they are married or divorced there is not much to be assumed about them, or you have to stretch to assume some things...when one is in an affair, more often than not, it doesn't take much to imagine that they are lying, deceiving, possibly gaslighting, endangering someone's health etc daily. Yes some As may not be this way, some may include less or ore lying etc...but quite often most involve one or many of those negatively viewed actions. It makes sense to me why in the latter case people would assume that trust becomes a more problematic category...and for many APs who end up together, this does became an area of concern that they have to overcome..and some never overcome it.

 

 

Someone already showed you they are willing to lie,gaslight,manipulate,cheat on another. And also use for whatever purposes them until THEY are ready to let go or until they find out. But that is a trustworthy person?

 

If I had a friend who was doing all that to another friend, I sure as heck would watch my back. Cause most likely I would be next.

 

I agree. What happens when the honeymoon period is over and the dopamine and other chemicals are not there?

 

Two thieves may justify the other's actions. But you better be sure they really do not trust each other.

 

 

Also, I always wonder why someone who hooked up with another person while in a relationship is always so desperate to marry ASAP! If you really love each other,why the hurry. Get to know each other. You will have the rest of your lives to spend together if it is meant to be.

[Furious]

Miss Bee

 

That was a brilliant post!