Next steps

[MissBee]

Someone already showed you they are willing to lie,gaslight,manipulate,cheat on another. And also use for whatever purposes them until THEY are ready to let go or until they find out. But that is a trustworthy person?

 

If I had a friend who was doing all that to another friend, I sure as heck would watch my back. Cause most likely I would be next.

I agree. What happens when the honeymoon period is over and the dopamine and other chemicals are not there?

 

Two thieves may justify the other's actions. But you better be sure they really do not trust each other.

 

Also, I always wonder why someone who hooked up with another person while in a relationship is always so desperate to marry ASAP! If you really love each other,why the hurry. Get to know each other. You will have the rest of your lives to spend together if it is meant to be.

 

The bolded is so true and how I see it. I suppose for many it comes down to "well he/she isn't lying to me". I guess I understand this logic...but that comes down to viewing the person as a product of a certain circumstance or looking at their actions in relation to you or in an insular bubble and not just taking them as who they are outside of you or as a whole. I personally don't do that. A man trying to woo me is going to be nice to me...this is to be expected and I don't put too much stock into those wonderful feelings and actions only...I want to see what you do and who you are without me in the picture, how you treat your friends, family, mom, kids, and in an A, how are you treating your current wife? All these things are who you are...you don't live in a vacuum made up of me, you, and "our love"...so lots of external things factor in for me. Especially how you treat those people who have been there in your life before me. I am a romantic realist. I want to see how you treat people whom the honeymoon has worn out and they have seen you warts and all. Because it will be very easy for you to treat me very well, as I will be new and "easy to love" more so than anyone who has been there and is old news frankly.

 

I'm not saying that a person who cheats is some irredeemable person who will cheat on everyone, I'm simply saying that it is not far-fetched that in affair relationships, based on everything that goes on and this person's actions, trust becomes a hot button and questionable topic. This person is showing you something...I suppose different people interpret what they are showing by this behavior differently, usually it seems it is interpreted along the lines of this being an anomaly, inconsequential, an aside, not relevant to their love or relationship. For me, you cheating is very relevant. Needless to say, for many OW/OM trust becomes an issue and many have come here upon ending up with the MP very paranoid in this regard. It makes sense and is rational.

Edited June 2, 2012 by MissBee

[William]

Looks like we have a thread starter named beachbabe82 and titles the thread 'Next steps' and she writes:

 

I want to be married to him. I want him out of his marriage and us to be married! I want our family and friends to celebrate our love. I want us to share every part of our lives. I want kids with him (or at least one). I know not everyone wants that (kids with the MM).

 

How do you feel (and please know this post is open to everyone)??? Do you want marriage because of the love you share or are you content to just not have him/her married?

 

There's the topic and beachbabe is the person to be addressing.

[beachbabe82]

Thank you William!!!! I was a little confused how my thread became all about someone else

 

To answer a couple ??'s

 

Jwl71- Billy is separated and they are working on the custody and financial papers. They can file after the 1 year mark and Billy hopes to have the papers finalized so Jan 30 he can file. He did pick a lawyer so yay!!! For their divorce to be based on adultery, there would need to be video of sex between one of the married people and someone else. He is filing a no fault divorce and his wife so far has no issues with them divorcing. Yay again! I never said I was getting involved in his divorce, so please stop indicating I am. You asked for actions to show he was serious about ending his marriage and I gave you specifics!! I did not ask what he said to his kids; he and his wife both were present. No, his wife doesn't know about me and neither do his kids.

 

For the other OW who say they don't want marriage and say its cause they don't want their MM to be bound to you because of a promise, I find that confusing. If Billy is ending his marriage to be with me, that shows me he doesn't stay with someone cause of a vow or promise! I'm glad he made the decision to be with me. That shows me he loves ME and wants to be with ME and not playing both sides. How do you stay in an affair for a long time knowing he has this whole other life that you have don't belong in? I could not do that!!! I would go crazy.

 

I do want marriage and while I understand ya'll saying he may cheat on me, I trust him and if I didn't I wouldn't be with him. If we don't work out, then it wasn't meant to be! I had my cards read a couple weeks ago, and I am right where I should be

Edited June 3, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Got it]

How is trust developed outside of external things or without them being included? When I meet anyone, a man I'm going to date or potential friend, I don't trust them just based on some mysterious internal thing. I trust them by who I find them to be, how they act, actions I see them perform, things they tell me about their life etc. A man who embezzles at his company, that is external, but knowing this about him doesn't foster any trust for me personally. I don't just care about how you make me feel or how you act towards me, but who you are as a person, when you're not trying to impress me.

 

Asking if marital status makes the element of trust different between people seems to imply that it is ridiculous to think this. Yet, marital status isn't the problem. An affair often includes has a whole lot of other things that in other life circumstances people would consider not to be stellar character traits...that is what makes the difference. It's not just whether one is single, divorced or married - all more or less innocuous markers. Divorced or married are neutral markers, although divorce can be stigmatized, but more or less it is neutral.... "in an affair" is not one. One can argue why it should also be neutral, but one in an affair is also considered a cheater. It's not an neutral category. That is why for many people the element of trust would be different and it's not simply marital status...which sounds very innocent, unassuming and neutral. When someone says they are married or divorced there is not much to be assumed about them, or you have to stretch to assume some things...when one is in an affair, more often than not, it doesn't take much to imagine that they are lying, deceiving, possibly gaslighting, endangering someone's health etc daily. Yes some As may not be this way, some may include less or ore lying etc...but quite often most involve one or many of those negatively viewed actions. It makes sense to me why in the latter case people would assume that trust becomes a more problematic category...and for many APs who end up together, this does became an area of concern that they have to overcome..and some never overcome it.

 

Miss Bee, I am not disagreeing with you that in some cases this is true but it is not true across the board. And that is the area I am speaking from.

 

There can and is trust in affairs. Not all affairs. Not in all relationships. But there can and is trust in some relationships.

[Got it]

Thank you William!!!! I was a little confused how my thread became all about someone else

 

To answer a couple ??'s

 

Jwl71- Billy is separated and they are working on the custody and financial papers. They can file after the 1 year mark and Billy hopes to have the papers finalized so Jan 30 he can file. He did pick a lawyer so yay!!! For their divorce to be based on adultery, there would need to be video of sex between one of the married people and someone else. He is filing a no fault divorce and his wife so far has no issues with them divorcing. Yay again! I never said I was getting involved in his divorce, so please stop indicating I am. You asked for actions to show he was serious about ending his marriage and I gave you specifics!! I did not ask what he said to his kids; he and his wife both were present. No, his wife doesn't know about me and neither do his kids.

 

For the other OW who say they don't want marriage and say its cause they don't want their MM to be bound to you because of a promise, I find that confusing. If Billy is ending his marriage to be with me, that shows me he doesn't stay with someone cause of a vow or promise! I'm glad he made the decision to be with me. That shows me he loves ME and wants to be with ME and not playing both sides. How do you stay in an affair for a long time knowing he has this whole other life that you have don't belong in? I could not do that!!! I would go crazy.

 

I do want marriage and while I understand ya'll saying he may cheat on me, I trust him and if I didn't I wouldn't be with him. If we don't work out, then it wasn't meant to be! I had my cards read a couple weeks ago, and I am right where I should be

 

Beachbabe - I have not looked on dMM leaving his marriage as a direct relation to myself. I would not want him to have left because of me. I wanted him to leave for himself. Because that was the right thing for him with our without me in his life. I do not want the pressure of the end of his marriage resting on my shoulders as the only, or primary, reason for leaving. I did not leave my marriage for him. I left because of issues with my marriage that had nothing to do with him. With or without dMM in my life, ending my marriage was the right decision.

 

While I agree that him leaving shows me that he isn't interested in cake eating, I did not necessarily see it as a direct example of him loving me. His actions on how he handled his divorce, our relationship, and him trying to fix the hurts he caused is what has showed me his love for everyone.

Edited June 3, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[noelle303]

I did not want a relationship with xMM. I really liked him and we had a great time together, maybe had he been single I would want it, but this way I just knew from the beginning that it would be too much drama and complications and we would never work out, in the end he would leave his family for nothing. He knew it, I knew it and we never ever discussed the possibility of him leaving his wife. Maybe had we stayed together for a very long time, years, the topic would have been brought up but with 6 months together we had no expectations.

 

Yes, he had his wife at home but that never bothered me, I had my freedom as well so I never got jealous or felt left out. I mean I was certainly left out of a great deal of his life but so was he of mine. Maybe the fact that I was 19/20 factored in my opinion of this since I certainly did not dream of weddings or babies or joint bank accounts in ANY near future.

[daisy love]

Hi beachbabe. I hope everything works out for you, but let me give you a warning ok? The way he treats his wife? That's the same way he'll treat you. I thought it was so neat how she could spend what she wanted and had nice clothes and everything. I didn't really know that there was a price to pay for it. My reader tried to warn me, but I didn't listen.

 

Opps! I forgot to answer your question! At first I thought I didn't want marriage because I knew he was already married to someone else. That seemed really silly. And he bitched about his w allot so I thought he already has one wife, why'd he want another LOL! But I wasn't really being honest with myself. I hated not being able to talk to him whenever and making love and watching him leave, knowing he was going back to her and would probably make love to her too was gut wrenching. I just wasn't being honest with myself about my feelings and yep, I wanted him all to myself. Now that I have him, it's not much different than the A tho.

Edited June 3, 2012 by daisy love
Forgot to answer the question!

[alexandria35]

Beachbabe I wish you well and hope life goes the way you are hoping. I think you should maybe be a little concerned about him leaving just for you. A marriage's failure or sucess shouldn't have anything to do with someone else.

 

PS. Daisylove what is going on with you girl? You sound like a completely different person these days. When you first arrived her you sounded full of pep. Full of yourself and full of fight. Now you sound somewhat broken. Are you sure your relationship is worth the price?

[beachbabe82]

Hi beachbabe. I hope everything works out for you, but let me give you a warning ok? The way he treats his wife? That's the same way he'll treat you. I thought it was so neat how she could spend what she wanted and had nice clothes and everything. I didn't really know that there was a price to pay for it. My reader tried to warn me, but I didn't listen.

 

Opps! I forgot to answer your question! At first I thought I didn't want marriage because I knew he was already married to someone else. That seemed really silly. And he bitched about his w allot so I thought he already has one wife, why'd he want another LOL! But I wasn't really being honest with myself. I hated not being able to talk to him whenever and making love and watching him leave, knowing he was going back to her and would probably make love to her too was gut wrenching. I just wasn't being honest with myself about my feelings and yep, I wanted him all to myself. Now that I have him, it's not much different than the A tho.

 

Hey! A fellow psychic believer!!!! Soon as I get privileges to me, we need to chat!!

 

I feel the same as you. I want to be able to talk to him, love on him and do whatever whenever with him . I think you get it!!

 

And yeah, he wants marriage and a family with me. Of course we talk about it!!!! We have been looking at ring styles; he wants an idea of what I want. We had the best time on Saturday. We looked at rings, then we went to a wine tasting venue and we had a picnic and just enjoyed each other...if ya know what I mean! It was so much fun and we really needed some time away from everyone and just talking about our dreams and plans. We aren't going to do a huge fancy shmancy wedding. Just a quiet thing with a minister, the beach and our parent, his kids and our siblings. We are thinking maybe May of next year.

Edited June 8, 2012 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Got it]

Why does me asking Trinity a question directly to her, bother you so much? I was curious about her situation since she brought something up that I was genuinally curious about (again, in her situation), that's all. No need to take a shot at me.

 

 

Which, I apologize if you felt I took a shot at you. I don't feel I did but I am sorry if you feel that way. You brought up a question that transcends other relationships and so I posted on it. I did not realize that you only wanted to hear about Trinity's situation though a PM. A PM between you two would have cleared up that confusion then as it would not have allowed others to read.

 

But nevertheless not my intent or purpose so my apologies.

[Toots]

 

How do you feel (and please know this post is open to everyone)??? Do you want marriage because of the love you share or are you content to just not have him/her married?

 

I did not want to marry my xMM. I liked him enough as a lover but you don't want to marry everyone you date and he wasn't someone I wanted to marry. Also it would have been his third marriage so he'd have had loads of baggage and he wasn't the counselling type. And I was too young to want to marry back then anyway!

[sad puppy]

I did not want to marry my xMM. I liked him enough as a lover but you don't want to marry everyone you date and he wasn't someone I wanted to marry. Also it would have been his third marriage so he'd have had loads of baggage and he wasn't the counselling type. And I was too young to want to marry back then anyway!

 

That reminds me of some woman, who had an affair with a guy, and he went ahead and divorced his wife, they continued to date, travel, ...

 

Then, somewhere down the line, he asked her to marry him. She asked him if he was kidding? And told him, "No, why would I do that? You're a cheater, I could never trust you".

 

Love that.

[MissBee]

That reminds me of some woman, who had an affair with a guy, and he went ahead and divorced his wife, they continued to date, travel, ...

 

Then, somewhere down the line, he asked her to marry him. She asked him if he was kidding? And told him, "No, why would I do that? You're a cheater, I could never trust you".

 

Love that.

 

 

Hilarious.

[jwi71]

 

Jwl71- Billy is separated and they are working on the custody and financial papers. They can file after the 1 year mark and Billy hopes to have the papers finalized so Jan 30 he can file. He did pick a lawyer so yay!!

 

These are positive moves towards D.

Jan 30? DO you mean Jan 30, 2013 for them to file? Does that mean he won't be eligible to be officially D until Jan 30 of 2014?

 

For their divorce to be based on adultery, there would need to be video of sex between one of the married people and someone else.

 

WTF.

You mean the courts won't accept HIS word, YOUR word and his W's word?

Please...where do you live? Country is all...that just sounds so eff'n....strange. Its unbelievable really. I googled for varying combinations and got nothing.

 

I have never, in all my years involved with infidelity heard of this. A legal D for cause (adultery) requires video of adulterous partners in the act of sexual intercourse.

 

Did your MM tell you this?

 

Oh, wait...you answer this below...

 

He is filing a no fault divorce and his wife so far has no issues with them divorcing.

 

So far. I get the sense that means because you are still a secret. Change your "secrecay status" and I bet things change. This explains the whole absurd video requirement.

 

You asked for actions to show he was serious about ending his marriage and I gave you specifics!!

 

Don't be so defensive. HE has, per you, selected a lawyer and they will spend the next 6 months "sorting it out". Then file. Then wait a year until Jan 30 2014.

 

I did not ask what he said to his kids; he and his wife both were present. No, his wife doesn't know about me and neither do his kids.

 

No problem. You are going to try the "I just met beachbabe routine". Basically, you are going to continue to lie to the world about the circumstance under which your R (and I presume M) began.

 

Just make sure to never slip up. Ever. Yes, it happens. And yes, its "not fun" when "everyone" figures out all the lies...especially his kids. I would suggest another more honest course of action but its YOUR life.

[Radagast]

Basically, you are going to continue to lie to the world about the circumstance under which your R (and I presume M) began.

 

Just make sure to never slip up. Ever. Yes, it happens. And yes, its "not fun" when "everyone" figures out all the lies...especially his kids. I would suggest another more honest course of action but its YOUR life.

 

Personally I have never seen the need to hide our origins. Our families and friends knew during the affair, everyone knew except my ex-wife, and we never had any issues as a result of that. We're from different nationalities so are often asked how we met when we meet new people and we tell them the whole story, which is always greeted as very romantic, love triumphing over adversity. The kids see it as inspirational, beating the odds. But I guess not everyone is so lucky and some communities are perhaps less open-minded or perhaps the people in the affair themselves feel ashamed and want to hide their pasts. But lying and dishonesty are known to require a lot more effort and create a lot more stress rather than simply living and telling the truth.

 

Whatever you choose, good luck and I hope you can work it out.

[Owl]

Personally I have never seen the need to hide our origins. Our families and friends knew during the affair, everyone knew except my ex-wife, and we never had any issues as a result of that. We're from different nationalities so are often asked how we met when we meet new people and we tell them the whole story, which is always greeted as very romantic, love triumphing over adversity. The kids see it as inspirational, beating the odds. But I guess not everyone is so lucky and some communities are perhaps less open-minded or perhaps the people in the affair themselves feel ashamed and want to hide their pasts. But lying and dishonesty are known to require a lot more effort and create a lot more stress rather than simply living and telling the truth.

 

Whatever you choose, good luck and I hope you can work it out.

 

As I'd mentioned on another thread...I suspect that you're not living in/native to the United States nor most of the Western European cultures.

 

Those cultures view infidelity/cheating differently than appears to happen in your culture.

 

No expectations that you should change...not at all. But given that the majority of posters here ARE from a 'western culture'...it would be wise to expect that most will have a different viewpoint than you're accustomed to.

[Radagast]

As I'd mentioned on another thread...I suspect that you're not living in/native to the United States nor most of the Western European cultures.

 

Those cultures view infidelity/cheating differently than appears to happen in your culture.

 

No expectations that you should change...not at all. But given that the majority of posters here ARE from a 'western culture'...it would be wise to expect that most will have a different viewpoint than you're accustomed to.

 

I am from, and live in, a "western culture", though you are correct that I am not American. The responses I am describing are those of a "western culture".