God and the social construction of reality

[BetheButterfly]

Can science be used to prove the existence of god?

 

No. Science is based on the scientific method, of which observation and manipulating variables for experimentation are key components.

 

God is not observable in the physical sense, nor can we manipulate Him.

 

If religion and God are social constructions, then why do civilizations/people believe and worship these social constructions? If we create our own reality, how can people believe in a deity that doesn't really exist -- except in one's imagination?

Since I have only studied the Abrahamic religions, it is interesting to me how Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) believed in a deity because they seemed (especially Abraham and Jacob) to have personal experiences with this deity. Moses also had personal experience with this deity, as well as the children of Israel a long time ago. Now, people of today can speculate as to whether the accounts of their experiences are true or not. However, unless/until people can invent a time machine and go back in time/place, it is hard to know for sure.

 

I was raised Roman Catholic and even studied Mahayana Buddhism side by side with monks when I lived in China. However now I question what I've been investing my 'faith' in, if not a complete delusion - the delusion of god, that is.

 

I haven't attended mass in a while now for this very reason. I have no issue with visiting one of the local Buddhist temples here for a Sunday meditation and Dharma talk, followed by a social reception because Buddha isn't a god and never claimed to be one. Whereas in a Catholic mass, I have to be told that God is my father (which isn't true), and that if I don't take care of my soul I'm going to hell (which I don't believe in anyway).

 

So, what do I do with all the time and energy I invested towards my Catholic faith, if it no longer suits me? I enjoy what Buddhism has to offer, but I'm not willing to go so far as to call myself a complete Buddhist. And I certainly don't consider myself a complete Catholic. I just can't justify going to church or engaging in discussions anymore with Catholics who truly believe that God and Jesus are real, when I disagree. I don't believe in the afterlife, or resurrection (or reincarnation). I also believe that morality is a social construct. Does this make me a nihilist? If so, what does that mean exactly?

 

Crisis of faith here.

I have some Catholic friends who are very sincere in their faith. A man I dated was a nominal Catholic, which I thought was funny that he said that "I'm a nominal Catholic." We actually went to mass together once, which was very interesting to me, because I am a Protestant. One good friend who is Catholic is very active in helping people who are in need, and is also active in studying the Bible. I really admire her!

 

Anyways, I think it is fine for you to believe what you believe is true. Freedom of religion is awesome. If you consider yourself a Buddhist, that is fine. If you don't believe God and Jesus are true, that is your right, same as it is my right to believe that God and Jesus are true.

[M30USA]

Back to Paul, I don't understand about the UFO reference though? Is that just a simile? I very much doubt Jesus spoke to him through a UFO.

 

I've done hundreds of hours of research on so-called UFOs. Once you sift through all the Hollywood fiction and the sci-fi, there is a core of truth which is not what you'd expect and would never have guessed at the outset. UFOs are real. There are sightings worldwide and have been at least as far back as 4000 BC. These craft are captured on military radar, witness by all sorts of trained experts even in large groups, found to leave indentations in ground, picked up with Geiger counter (for radiation), and have left thousands with testimonies of personal sightings and even abductions. Dr. John Mack of Harvard University interviewed 1500+ so-called abductees. He found that almost none of them had any mental disorder, they were generally influencial people in society, they generally had higher than average income, and they ALL reported almost the exact series of events, the 2 most common of which are: 1) Sexual experimentation or contact with these "aliens" often producing what they refer to as "hybrid babies", and 2) They are left with an extreme, previously non-existent concern for the earth in regard to some future cataclysm. To anyone who suggests that they are influenced by the media, movies, etc, you must explain why the SAME things are reported in third world countries by people who have NO exposure to such things (media, etc.) The event #1 involving sexual contact with aliens is very, very controversial yet it bears striking similarity to Genesis 6 where fallen angels descended and had children through human women to create hybrid race called Nephilim. Again, call it crazy, but it bears all to similar a theme to the pre-Flood events.

 

So my point, and final conclusion, after all my reasearch is that what we call "aliens" are really a twisted, fictionalized, yet PARTIALLY TRUE version of the angels which have been in constant contact with humanity from day one. If you consider this option, you realize angelic activity on earth is RAMPANT.

[Eddie Edirol]

 

So, what do I do with all the time and energy I invested towards my Catholic faith, if it no longer suits me? I enjoy what Buddhism has to offer, but I'm not willing to go so far as to call myself a complete Buddhist. And I certainly don't consider myself a complete Catholic. I just can't justify going to church or engaging in discussions anymore with Catholics who truly believe that God and Jesus are real, when I disagree. I don't believe in the afterlife, or resurrection (or reincarnation). I also believe that morality is a social construct. Does this make me a nihilist? If so, what does that mean exactly?

 

Crisis of faith here.

 

You cant really take it with you. Its the same thing as time invested in a relationship, you kinda learned from it, its part of the journey, but it was alot of time lost, and you gotta move on. A good friend of mine was shifting through religions, shifting past Buddhism and eventually landed on Mormon. I guess he needed a God to worship.

 

I realized Catholicism wasnt for me when I was 12 and told my mom I wasnt going to church with her anymore. I do believe religion was created as a social construct, for whatever reason...order of society, wonder about lightning and natural disasters before scientists, whatever.

 

Now that we live in a society that people are less ostracized for not being religious, its natural that it seems comfortable for you to stop believing in religion after all the proof given to you. (or just growing up really) I personally believe that if you need to think that you arent in charge of your own life, and you need a god to take over, and the fairy tale of afterlife, you are weak minded. My friend that became Mormon is almost a genius, but its so disappointing to me that he needs to worship a god to be happy. No big deal, he doesnt thump the bible while I'm around. I think he is a true atheist at heart, and he will come around eventually. Alot of people dont even realize that alot of priests dont believe in god anymore, they just play the role because its a job.

 

I think you are discovering that you're a leader and not a follower, and leaders dont need to believe in a deity to stay sane. I applaud you. Welcome to the club.

[M30USA]

Do all of yourselves a favor:

 

Wipe your mind clean of everything you've ever been taught about the Bible, either from your parents or pastors or television. Start from scratch. Do not assume anything that is not exclusively and exlplicity written in the texts. And most importantly, pray to God that he will reveal to you through the Holy Spirit what the verses mean.

[writergal]

You cant really take it with you. Its the same thing as time invested in a relationship, you kinda learned from it, its part of the journey, but it was alot of time lost, and you gotta move on. A good friend of mine was shifting through religions, shifting past Buddhism and eventually landed on Mormon. I guess he needed a God to worship.

 

I realized Catholicism wasnt for me when I was 12 and told my mom I wasnt going to church with her anymore. I do believe religion was created as a social construct, for whatever reason...order of society, wonder about lightning and natural disasters before scientists, whatever.

 

Now that we live in a society that people are less ostracized for not being religious, its natural that it seems comfortable for you to stop believing in religion after all the proof given to you. (or just growing up really) I personally believe that if you need to think that you arent in charge of your own life, and you need a god to take over, and the fairy tale of afterlife, you are weak minded. My friend that became Mormon is almost a genius, but its so disappointing to me that he needs to worship a god to be happy. No big deal, he doesnt thump the bible while I'm around. I think he is a true atheist at heart, and he will come around eventually. Alot of people dont even realize that alot of priests dont believe in god anymore, they just play the role because its a job.

 

I think you are discovering that you're a leader and not a follower, and leaders dont need to believe in a deity to stay sane. I applaud you. Welcome to the club.

 

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I've outgrown the religion that my parents raised me with and have moved towards Buddhism and science as the next steps towards my journey.

Edited June 26, 2012 by writergal

[TheFinalWord]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I've outgrown the religion that my parents raised me with and have moved towards Buddhism and science as the next steps towards my journey.

 

Sounds good. Some thoughts to chew on

 

God, in the end, gives people what they most want, including freedom from himself. What could be more fair? - C.S. Lewis

 

If naturalism were true then all thoughts whatever would be wholly the result of irrational causes...it cuts its own throat — C.S. Lewis

[writergal]

Sounds good. Some thoughts to chew on

 

God, in the end, gives people what they most want, including freedom from himself. What could be more fair? - C.S. Lewis

 

If naturalism were true then all thoughts whatever would be wholly the result of irrational causes...it cuts its own throat — C.S. Lewis

 

I know that Lewis was a christian apologist despite growing up atheist and that he approached god and religion from a practical point of view. But those two quotes don't sway my beliefs at all. Nice try though. (I sense sarcasm was the intent behind your quote choices too)

[TheFinalWord]

I know that Lewis was a christian apologist despite growing up atheist and that he approached god and religion from a practical point of view. But those two quotes don't sway my beliefs at all. Nice try though. (I sense sarcasm was the intent behind your quote choices too)

 

haha yep

 

I'm honestly not trying to sway you. From my experience, there is little anyone can do to sway anyone from behind a computer screen; especially religion or politics The greatest evidence for my faith, God working in my life, cannot be demonstrated to you through the Internet.

 

One thing I don't understand is why you see this contradiction with science and belief in God? I know tons of extremely smart profs in the physical sciences that believe in God.

 

I also don't understand this notion that if you believe in God, you are weak-minded and need a fairy tale? I know you didn't say that, but you agreed 100% with the poster that did. I guess just like "bible thumping" turns off atheists, I get turned off by other humans who think they are superior to other humans b/c they subscribe to a particular philosophy. It's one thing to think you have a better idea, it's another to thumb your nose and look down at others. If that's the consequence of atheism, I'd pick any religion over that any day of the week. That alone is enough for me to reject the entire philosophy. Not the philosophy itself, but what it turns me into as a person. Christianity has genuinely made me a happier person and more responsible citizen. I never think I am better than other people b/c of my faith.

 

If Christianity is false, I'd rather live a lie and genuinely see people as equal to me, than to live in truth of atheism and think I am superior to other human beings. Sorry to say, I don't believe this air of superiority purported by atheism does much to evangelize for the cause

Edited June 26, 2012 by TheFinalWord

[writergal]

haha yep

 

I'm honestly not trying to sway you. From my experience, there is little anyone can do to sway anyone from behind a computer screen; especially religion or politics The greatest evidence for my faith, God working in my life, cannot be demonstrated to you through the Internet.

 

One thing I don't understand is why you see this contradiction with science and belief in God? I know tons of extremely smart profs in the physical sciences that believe in God.

 

I also don't understand this notion that if you believe in God, you are weak-minded and need a fairy tale? I know you didn't say that, but you agreed 100% with the poster that did. I guess just like "bible thumping" turns off atheists, I get turned off by other humans who think they are superior to other humans b/c they subscribe to a particular philosophy. It's one thing to think you have a better idea, it's another to thumb your nose and look down at others. If that's the consequence of atheism, I'd pick any religion over that any day of the week. That alone is enough for me to reject the entire philosophy. Not the philosophy itself, but what it turns me into as a person. Christianity has genuinely made me a happier person and more responsible citizen. I never think I am better than other people b/c of my faith.

 

If Christianity is false, I'd rather live a lie and genuinely see people as equal to me, than to live in truth of atheism and think I am superior to other human beings. Sorry to say, I don't this this air of superiority purported by atheism does much to evangelize for a cause

 

 

First, just because I agree 100% with Eddie E's post doesn't mean I think I'm superior to you because of my different belief. That's your interpretation because of your experiences with atheists.

 

You clearly have very strong views and that's fine. I appreciate you sharing your views in my thread. But I don't have anything more to add at this point. Thanks.

[TheFinalWord]

First, just because I agree 100% with Eddie E's post doesn't mean I think I'm superior to you because of my different belief. That's your interpretation because of your experiences with atheists.

 

You clearly have very strong views and that's fine. I appreciate you sharing your views in my thread. But I don't have anything more to add at this point. Thanks.

 

Okay, thanks for clarifying!

 

You're welcome, I hope they added to your journey. Take care.

[writergal]

Your conversation was extremely interesting and very helpful to me. So thanks again! Oh, and as Bobby McFerrin sang, "don't worry. be happy now."

[TheFinalWord]

Your conversation was extremely interesting and very helpful to me. So thanks again! Oh, and as Bobby McFerrin sang, "don't worry. be happy now."

 

Love that song! That's funny b/c I was just randomly humming that song to myself not even two days ago!

 

Oh, speaking of Buddhism, did you ever watch Kung-Fu? It's a fav of mine

 

You might want to check out "The Tao of Kung Fu" on youtube. There's like 20 of them. Very interesting and enlightening clips taken from Kung Fu with some Taoist philosophy.

[thatone]

the same way the "intelligent design" 'theorists' (term used as loosely as possible), which keeps getting deleted every time i respond to M30's ben stein point with it, claim that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, for example...

 

AFA

 

basically every conservative political organization with the word "family" in the name can be more accurately defined by replacing "family" with "bigotry and hate".

 

Do all of yourselves a favor:

 

Wipe your mind clean of everything you've ever been taught about the Bible, either from your parents or pastors or television. Start from scratch. Do not assume anything that is not exclusively and exlplicity written in the texts. And most importantly, pray to God that he will reveal to you through the Holy Spirit what the verses mean.

 

i've invested 35 years in the knowledge i've got, i think i'll hang on to it, thanks.

[M30USA]

the same way the "intelligent design" 'theorists' (term used as loosely as possible), which keeps getting deleted every time i respond to M30's ben stein point with it, claim that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, for example...

 

AFA

 

basically every conservative political organization with the word "family" in the name can be more accurately defined by replacing "family" with "bigotry and hate".

 

 

 

i've invested 35 years in the knowledge i've got, i think i'll hang on to it, thanks.

 

I didn't say wipe your mind clean of critical thinking and knowledge, but rather what you have been taught about the Bible. False teachers and false prophets are a dime a dozen.