Desperate for advice: open marriage; husband went to prostitutes; returns in days!

[Grusna]

I am absolutely desperate for some immediate advice on how to handle a complicated situation with my husband in my open marriage. We have been married for six years, are in our thirties and have had an open marriage agreement from nearly the beginning. My husband is from Eastern Europe (which is somewhat relevant) and I -- from North America. I lived in his country for several years and know his culture well. He is currently visiting his native city for the first time since we moved to North America some years ago and will be returning in a couple of days. He had never sought a relationship of any kind until this trip. We went over our long-established agreement before he left: if he was going to engage in any kind of affair, 1) he was to be safe (i.e. no excessively risky behavior and to use condoms) 2) he was to communicate his interest to me before proceeding and was to keep me updated during the tryst, and 3) he was to show me respect in his conduct (i.e. it was to be between him and me and, obviously the person he was involved with). I was shocked, livid and sick with worry when I discovered what had happened.

 

A married male friend in E.E. (I'll call him "Peter") suggested that they go to a sauna and it was made clear that prostitutes would be available there. Peter told my husband this without knowing that we have an open marriage. My husband THEN made the first of what I consider to be thoughtless and stupid decisions by telling Peter that we have an open marriage and by agreeing to go. Peter told his wife AND another male friend about what they had planned for my husband. Peter AND the male friend took my husband to the sauna. Peter brought out several women and asked my husband to choose. He chose one prostitute and they went to another room. My husband had sexual intercourse with her and used a condom. However there was some contact and kissing before the condom was on. When I heard this, I realized that my husband has little knowledge of sexually transmitted diseases and their transmission -- or maybe it simply has little impact on him? This, in part, is likely due to his growing up in a post-Soviet society in which such matters were barely discussed. I had, however, talked about HIV/AIDS and STDs over the years but he gave me the impression that he understood what's involved. I wonder now if he was even listening. Obviously, he never took the initiative to fill in the gaps of his knowledge. It gets worse.

 

After he had sex with the first woman, he returned to the room where Peter and the friend were. Peter asked him how the sex was and if he wanted to choose another woman. My husband said he was tired, but agreed. He chose TWO more women and although there was no further sexual intercourse and he wore a condom, there was a "massage" and sexual contact.

 

I discovered what happened only after I sensed something in odd his tone in a phone call. I asked him what was going on. He told me and claimed that he had been planning to tell me for a few days. I was absolutely shocked that he would do something that would endanger his life and health and possibly mine and made, what I consider to be, a big public circus out of things and that he hadn't bothered to discuss it with me earlier. In fact, I was so shocked that I did not get very upset in during that call. He was upset, however, that I was "reacting so badly."

 

Several hours later, I called him back and was very angry and asked for more details. He "said" that he thought that "perhaps" he had not handled it well and asked me for my thoughts. I asked him not to discuss the matter further with anyone, to refrain from associating with Peter and his wife for the duration of his trip until we could sort it out later, and to think about how we might handle the potential health risks (testing, refraining from sex for 6 months, etc.). I also requested that he no longer stay out all night during the trip and let me know what he is up to there. I told him that it was because I was feeling very disappointed in him and his poor decision-making. He became very angry, and said "no ultimatums." The call ended. He had not even shown a sign of concern about the health risks/HIV/AIDS. In fact, his said something to the effect of "the girls were probably checked out because they have only wealthy and 'reputable' clientele"!

 

Immediately following that call, he spoke with Peter's wife, who told him to acknowledge to me the health risk. But in our discussions since, he's shown that he doesn't seem to care or understand and has even accused me of trying to "hunt him down" while he's there and that I'm "acting like a jealous wife." I explained to him that it is not jealousy and that I had expected him to follow our agreement and the last thing that I thought he would do is go to prostitutes. I thought it was clear and obvious that he might choose a nice friend of a friend or similar. I did write a calm, detailed e-mail to him, which he read, outlining again the reasons why I am upset. Again, it's because of 1) the health risk, 2) lack of communiciation, 3) lack of respect & privacy and also because I have been encouraging him for a few years to take advantage of my sexual creativity and show more concern about my sexual needs and interests and yet he went to prostitutes when he finally chose to (mildly) experiment.

 

Yesterday he agreed to stop talking to Peter and his wife for the rest of the trip, with the exception of a last call to the wife to "explain." I can only imagine, because of his perception, what he told her. He is still whining that he has been friends with them for so long and that my requests are "unfair." At any rate, he seems to think the whole things was just a minor boo-boo and that I'm being unreasonable. I have barely heard from him since the initial two calls and I simply don't know how to handle this. I feeling alone and very detached from him, especially because he is refusing to talk about it until he gets back.

 

As an additional note, I have had one short relationship with a friend during my open marriage. My husband knows that but has made the choice not to hear the details. He says he may want to know now?

 

My husband and I have had communication problems in the past but we have been going to a therapist and I had thought that we were doing quite well.

 

At the end of the summer, I will be leaving for months at a time for my professional work. So, to make matters worse, there's little time for working on the aftermath!

 

Please, PLEASE any and all posts on my situation are welcome!

[CurlyIam]

I'm from Easter Europe and I am as scared as hell of STD's. I don't know which country he comes from, but I'm 24 and I had IN SCHOOL detailed lessons on sex and STD's! And I did not live in the capital all my life.

 

But I do admit that men are generally less concerned with this aspect.

 

What I can tell you is that you've got what you asked for! Both of you! Grusna, once you make one compromise (open relationship), how do you know where to drow the line? Are threesome allright? What about swingers?

 

If they were well paid prostitutes... I mean who the hell knows? I am sorry to tell you that you run the same risk of getting an STD if he sleeps with a "friend" for the quality of "friend" does not come with a clean Bill of Health!

 

It was wrong from the beginning. You cannot have the cake and eat it too!

[Grusna]

CurlyIam,

 

I truly appreciate your reply. I am open to considering all opinions here. I need feedback to determine how to handle this.

 

And, yes, my husband and I have talked about threesomes, etc. Also, he's a bit older than you; he did not receive any kind of sex education in school.

 

Yes, one can get STDs and HIV/AIDS from people who are not prostitutes, but my husband's blatant disregard is what troubles me. In the case of a being with a "friend" of sorts, one can at least ask for a sexual history and limit the contact; if my husband had spoken to me, as we had agreed, we would have been able to discuss this. Prostitutes have had sex with MANY people and have a higher chance of being a drug user, which increases the risk.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

[CurlyIam]

Do you mind my asking you if it does not bother you - sharing, that is? 'Cause you are sharing him with other women... I'm more possesive and jealous and... I really don't understand.

 

Plus, how do you expect to solve this situation, especially since he seems to completely disregard the health issue? Aren't you a tinny itsy bit jealous and hurt?

[Pyrannaste]

First of all....I would never have an open relationship, but I don't think there is anything bad about them if both partners are okay with it. I mean, it's not stuff for me (I'm of the jealous kind) but I respect and I somewhat admire people who can manage to have open relationships. So I don't have any moral judgements to bestow on open relationships.

 

Said that, I believe that partners who have agreed to have an open relationship should set rules (like you did) and literally stick to them, with no"but"s, "perhaps"es, "maybe"s, whatsoever. (like your husband didn't)

While in normal relationship there are lines that are not to be crossed, I think that in open ones you must not put *one single toe out of line* for whatever reason.

 

I personally find that your husband's behaviour was disgusting.

There are at least three deal breakers there!

 

1)Telling his friend that you have an open relationship was utterly disrespectful IMO.

2)He didn't inform you *first* that he was going to have sex with those girls. I guess

this could be compared to cheating.

3)He had risky sexual contacts without protection...risking to endanger your health!

And he really acted like a jerk about it!!!!

 

I have no advice to offer you, , I just wanted to say I feel for you.

 

 

...one more thing. Talking about it in person (and not on the phone)when he gets back at home might be actually a good idea. I think arguments on the phone or via e-mail are difficult to 'control'...you don't see the other person's expression, eyes, gestures.

And you'd have limited time to talk about it. But only if he is really cutting off contact with his friend while he is there!!!!

[Debster]

It is hard for me to understand the 'open marriage' as it would definitely not be something that I would want. What I am getting from your post is that his behaviour hurt you. Not really because he had sex with a prostitute, but moreso because he broke the rules and appears to be casually disregarding your feelings. It might be due to the fact that he equates the open marriage with 'open to do anything'. After all, sleeping with people other than your husband is considered a huge NO No by many. The fact that you are ok with it, will make him think that you might accept other NO No behaviour. In other words, he doesn't know where to draw the line. i suggest getting the testing to protect yourself and re-establishing first of all if you are really ready for and wanting an open marriage. If so, then reaffirm the boundaries and rules and make them unconditional. If the rules and boundaries are broken, then in effect, he is cheating.

[Moose]

I really don't have any advice for you, but I just wanted to say...........DISGUSTING!!! I mean, sure, there are a lot of open marriages out there, I don't agree with that. Just like what Curly said, you asked for it!! I will never understand how anyone could let their spouse have open sexual relations with any other person than themselves. Even threesomes are out in my book.

 

Trying to stay away from this becoming a sermon, let me just say that the reasoning for me to say this is because the Lord was even asked what was the worst sin a man could commit. He of course answered with Men laying with his neighbor's wife. Not murder, or stealing......you two are the cause of this dilema. You will never trust him now. ( Unless you two stop this nonense of an open marriage )I don't see how you ever trusted him, or how he could trust you.

 

What has happened to people? I guess I'm old fashion or something, but marriage is for 2 people, who have a goal together to grow old, raise a family, and stay faithfull, until death......My advice....if you love him you would close this, "OPEN" marriage, forget the rules, there is only one, stay faithful one into the other.....it'll take a long time, but trust will have to be earned once again, find a common goal, raise a family together....try to grow out of this silly idea that it's ok for you two to have sex with other people......this is ridiculous!!!

[tiki]

Open marriage? WTF???

 

Where is the lack of value for your commitment? Why did you say vows? Why be together? I read a paragraph and a half on this post and had to stop. This is ludicrous and the thought is making me sick. All I can say is that if you agreed to an OPEN MARRIAGE, you got it.

[Jacksin]

Yep Moose's last paragraph said it all for me.

 

Grusna if you play with fire sooner or later you will get burnt, and really it serves you right.

Jack

[Potatohead]

It sounds to me that you are using STDs as an excuse to cover over your jealousy. For this I have no sympathy since you agreed to have an open marrage....I do however have sympathy for irrational fear of STDs

 

Your husband wore a condom, per your agreement. I can see virtually no risk in his behaviour as you have described.

 

Although I am not a doctor, I have had a very bad scare myself, for which I went and visited health clinic and had the risks explained...by a professional. Fear of HIV can be quite irrational...I know I scared myself sick for 3 months...even though I knew I did not/could not have it. It was the worst 3 months of my life.

 

Fact... although it is possible, it is extremely rare to get HIV via oral sex, in fact the ONLY KNOWN CASE was someone who had had dental work done in their mouth and had stitches in their gums!!!...so if your worried about this...don't be!!! I doubt a clinic would even advise a test for this behaviour...except for peace of mind.

 

As for kissing....nope...massaging....your kidding!!! You are showing your ignorance...for there to be any REAL chance of transmission bodily fluids have to get into the other persons bloodstream. That is why sharing needles is so bad...also during unprotected anal sex blood vessels tend to break...and HIV is found in infected males semen..so yeah this is also bad...it is also found in womans vaginal secretions particularly during their period (duh!!)...but virtually non existant at other times, but HIV CAN NOT pass through the skin barrier...there HAS to be a path to the bloodstream via open sore/cut...etc

 

Fact....the probability of geting HIV from an KNOWN INFECTED person during unprotected hetro sex/intercourse is about 1 in 300. This is a GLOBAL figure and includes males/female hetrosexual sex. This means it includes third world countries where there is a tendency to have other deseases...for example....sores in the genital area greatly increase the transmission risk. Hetro transmission in Western society is virtually unknown, however the statistic is swayed somewhat by males not admiting to their bi sexual...call it experimentation....this stat includes ALL OF THESE GROUPS....I asked the health worker...so then why is there such scare mongering...why do so many people have HIV??......answer.....everyone has sex and there are BILLIONS of people...simple....On top of this this stat is for both Male to fem and fem to male transmision...obviously its easier for a woman to get it from a man than visa versa

 

This risk is assuming that the Pro HAD it puts it at about that of being in a fatal car accident....of course if she didn't the risk is zero.....In any case he wore a condom for the intercourse....so its zero

 

You are definitly overreacting to the health aspect..And I think your using it as an excuse to cover your inability to live up to your open marrage agreement....

[CurlyIam]

While you are correct about the HIV...

 

No STD after oral sex? In your dreams, lover boy! Do a bit of searchin' the net on that matter! Even virgins get them if having performed oral sex!

 

Jeez!

[NatoPMT]

I am shocked that someone in distress can post here and get some of the replies she got. THATS disgusting. shes not committed a crime, nor hurt anyone.

 

Grusna, you have defined your marriage as you wished it to be at that time, now actions have been taken outside the original definition & outside your wishes, what do you wish the end result to be?

 

Do you wish for your husband to recognise how he has twisted the boundaries of your agreement? Or for a redefinition of what can happen within your marriage? Did you ever discuss what would happen if your agreement was broken?

 

If you wish to redefine, you are changing the boundaries of your original agreement, thats not how things were when you agreed to be together forever.

 

BB

[Potatohead]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

While you are correct about the HIV...

 

No STD after oral sex? In your dreams, lover boy! Do a bit of searchin' the net on that matter! Even virgins get them if having performed oral sex!

 

Jeez!

 

it seemed to me that she was focusing on HIV.

 

Of course you can get other STDs even from casual contact......eg Herpies.....most of them can be easily cured.....with the exception of course of Herpies....but then most people already have one of the types anyways.....while gential herpies is less coman, it is still very comman.

 

Try acting like a senior member

[Comeone]

Wow, I have been reading through these boards only to find it littered with "Holier than Thou" self serving comments! Look there are billions of people on this planet and billions of different world views. After reading post after post of people calling others "idiots" and other degrading comments, I feel pasioniate in the belief these so called loyal people are just as bad as everyone else. I keep hearing all this trash about Jesus said this and Jesus said that, but I think most people here have forgotten on MAJOR thing Jesus taught. "May the first person without sin cast the first stone." Now judging from the redicious self serving and judgemental propaganda on here, I think everyone needs to OPEN UP the book that has been closed.

 

Sad, but true the American condition needs to change from this puritan attitude. My beliefs are simple, just because I am not into something does not mean the other people are bad or deserve ill will or negative forces in their life. This attitude goes against EVERYTHING taught by Christ EVERYTHING! My suggestion to people is dismount from the high horse and come back down to the human condition.

[Moose]

Awwww, comeon comeon,

Apparently you haven't read, ALL, the posts from us. You'll find that we admit our faults as well, and ask for advice on our shortcomings. I feel that your post was directed to me, so I thought I'd go ahead and answer with my own post. The majority of us have our own problems, otherwise we wouldn't be on here.

 

Most of what you see on here are opinions and views of situations people find themselves in. We aren't claiming to be holier than anyone......there isn't one without sin in here. I'm no better than you and you are no better than me. When we see someone inviting pain and anguish in their marriage, we can't help but let them know that they were wrong to do so in the very begining.

 

It would be like if you saw someone driving down the road at a high speed on ice then crashing into a barrier, then the driver came to you to ask why did that happened, what are you going to say? It's a no brainer. And that what we see here. Personally I think you just wanted to unload and for some reason call all of us names.

 

I could've ended this post by asking you to step off your high horse as well, but instead, I hope that you can see our point of view a little better. Noone is claiming to be better than anyone on here. Just giving our opinions.

[CurlyIam]

I think of myself as a relatively open minded person. In a relationship I think one can experiment a lot, see how he/she is most comfortable or, on the contrary, try the wild stuff and then later on life settle down.

 

I did read my first post and I admit I definately lacked tact. But: if one can do, try, experiment, etc, fine, but marriage... It is about marriage. The one including publicly vowing fidelity,exclusivity and the rest of them things. The most important thing one can do after children. The one involving trust, etc etc...

 

Should one choose to live according to another set of values, then they should not get married. I think this aspect - the fact that they chose to go through with this phase in their life, gives me the right to be tough on them.

 

Not condescenting. Not mean. But then showing disaproval is my right just as much as her is to come here and search for help. I did not post to look better, I actually am convinced that in order to fix something, one must find the cause. I think I have made my point regarding this issue earlier.

 

 

 

As about the senior member, anyone can get it should they post a certain number of responses in a given time. The only responsability I have is towards myself and my own values and as far as that is concerned, I'm trying to do a good job!

 

Curly

 

P.S. The funny thing is I don't think she realises the enormity of the mess she's gotten herself into. Nor do some of the people posting... This is VERY big, VERY important!