Do I need to lie to her or let her go?

[MrDDuck]

Some may have read my previous post a while back. To summarize: I am a very controlling, bitter towards women, black and white kind of guy and very manipulative. I’m getting help for this when I’m off a waiting list to see a psychologist.

 

Should I wait meeting people so that I can fix my issues first? Or do I lie about my feelings to protect a new relationship so that it can grow out in a more healthy way.

 

In my previous relationship I was always honest about my controlling behavior. I told her I was sorry, that I needed help, that I didn’t want to be the guy that I had become. She obviously left me. I figured I should’ve lied about so many crucial things, so that she wouldn’t be pushed away by it and so that I could have tried to fix it before it was too late.

 

Do we need to lie in a relationship? Do we need to make that choice to have a better and healthier relationship?

 

I met a girl, she seems very nice and very shy. I have always been attracted to girls like that. I want them to experience something new, something great. The big problem however, is that after a while I want to control them too much. I become manipulative when she does something I don’t like, something that eats at my insecurities.

 

To be honest… she went to a concert with over 10.000 people. Even though I just met her and only communicated 3 e-mails back and forth, I felt unhappy/controlling of her choice to go to that concert.

 

What to do? I know that I have a lot to work on, but I’m not sure if I need to do this alone or fake it till I make it?

[Exit]

Boiled down to the simplest common sense point of view... if something involves needing to lie, does it ever sound like a good idea?

 

I know it might hurt to let a potential new girl go, but if you've just met this one and haven't formed a really strong connection yet, I would absolutely pump the brakes and wait until you get to work on yourself a little bit.

 

For what it's worth this isn't just coming from a fellow LoveShack member, this is coming from somebody who is guilty of many of the same things you mentioned. I have a bad streak of being controlling in relationships and I absolutely hate being that way. I've thought about it a lot lately, realized some things about it, and you actually mentioned the key word that I stumbled upon in my own mind: insecurities. People like to totally vilify guys who are controlling in relationships, thinking they are that way just to be mean, horrible people who want their partners to have no friends. But underneath it all is really insecurity and fear. We wouldn't care if our partners had a lot of friends or a social life that didn't involve us if we believed enough in ourselves and in the people who say they care about us. I am totally insecure and my self esteem is far from where it needs to be, and I realize this is why I always tried to have those types of relationships where I isolate it from the rest of the world, I stop talking to my friends and I try to find a girl who is going to want to spend all her time with me.

 

I really don't think there is any way to fake your way past it until you get better. I can absolutely identify with that rotten feeling you are describing about knowing she went to that concert. That sick jealous feeling that we get. It's not something we can control or lie about when we feel it. I've tried to do it before. My last gf was amazing but she had some other friends in another part of the state who she would go visit for entire weekends on occasion, and I told myself just to stuff those negative feelings down, to let her go have those weekends away and keep myself busy while she was gone and pretend it didn't bother me, because I didn't want to lose her. It didn't work. Those nasty feelings still came boiling up and it would lead to arguing about her going away.

 

I absolutely hate knowing that I am one of those people who can be called jealous, controlling, and all those horrible labels. Hearing those things has always hurt my feelings because, like I said above, people don't understand that this doesn't come from any actual desire to just be an a-hole. It's from fear, insecurity, worrying that you're gonna lose someone if they go out and have fun without you. I've been single now for 7 months and haven't really even entertained the idea of getting into a new relationship, for many reasons, but part of it is because I'm sick of repeating the same mistakes, and I know I always will until I find a way to be secure with myself and with having a girlfriend who has a life of her own. Almost every failed relationship in my history has been tainted in a major way by these bad habits of mine. You could probably talk to all of my exes (a list that is getting way too long) and I bet they would all mention that I was terrible when it came to letting them have other friends and do other things.

 

I really think you should wait until you can do some internal work on yourself and go talk to somebody before you bother trying another relationship. You might think you can hide it and lie about it to keep things moving along with this new girl, but if you're anything like me, you know it'll be too hard to ignore it when you start to feel jealous or controlling again. You know you're gonna make some pointed remark or some subtle accusation about her not spending her time with you or wanting to do other things, even if you're able to disguise most of it. I've tried to ignore it in many relationships and it just doesn't work.

 

So in closing I'll make my first point all over again. If you're really very early into knowing this new girl and already felt your tendencies causing some negative emotions to bubble up, let it go. If you were 6 or 8 months into a relationship with someone and asking if you could possibly maintain it while you wait to get help, maybe I would say it's worth trying, but if you've just met this girl, it would be easier to cut your losses. How you handle it is up to you, if you just need to cut her loose completely that's fine, if you want to be honest with her and tell her you need some time to work on some things before you get too attached to anyone new but that you'd like to stay in touch until you're ready, I guess you could see if she's willing to do that.

 

Good luck...

[darkmoon]

there's nothing new about controlling types of men, it's what brought feminism on, we were tired of playing underlings to others' egos

[d'Arthez]

Let her go. Messing another person up for a few minutes of fun is simply not worth it. Be honest and let her go.

[MrDDuck]

You made me cry, Exit. Something I haven’t done in a long time. Feels good. I can relate to you. Especially how you isolate your relations from the rest of the world to spend all your time together; you and her and nothing more. It feels nice to talk to someone who is going through the same motions. Thanks for sharing.

 

Yes, trying to ignore things, trying to hide feelings has been impossible. I always blow up in the end and throw everything at her face to feel at ease. There hasn’t been a single time I could control it. Like you said, it’s all about insecurities. Nothing more. I do love who I am, but the fear of abandonment for not being awesome enough is hard to deal with.

 

I've been single now for 7 months and haven't really even entertained the idea of getting into a new relationship, for many reasons, but part of it is because I'm sick of repeating the same mistakes, and I know I always will until I find a way to be secure with myself and with having a girlfriend who has a life of her own.

 

 

How are you dealing with all of this? A rational conversation with yourself –in my experience- doesn’t do a lot.

 

darkmoon: It’s cute how your post tickles the misogynist in me. Thanks for your input though. I always notice some women doing the same thing in similar posts. Can you explain to me why you feel the urge to do that?

 

I don’t want to hurt this girl. I wish I could offer her more than what I am right now. I guess I’ll have to let her go.

[darkmoon]

because you are as you put it "controlling" but i don't have to date you, though if you think pointing out misogyny is "cute" i shouldn't think any one else will date you for long either, sorry but you did ask

[MrDDuck]

because you are as you put it "controlling" but i don't have to date you, though if you think pointing out misogyny is "cute" i shouldn't think any one else will date you for long either, sorry but you did ask

 

It's a problem I am trying to deal with. It's far from cute.

 

But it's funny that a lot of women seem to reply to posts like this just to aggravate. It doesn't help me and only makes matters worse. But I have the slight feeling you are already aware of this..

[darkmoon]

It's a problem I am trying to deal with. It's far from cute.

 

But it's funny that a lot of women seem to reply to posts like this just to aggravate. It doesn't help me and only makes matters worse. But I have the slight feeling you are already aware of this..

 

you used the word "cute" as for "making matters worse" as you put it, these matters would not exist if you were relating to men, so have not set out to "aggravate" you particularly

[Exit]

How are you dealing with all of this? A rational conversation with yourself –in my experience- doesn’t do a lot.

 

I suppose I haven't really found a way to deal with it yet, which is why I'm still single at this point. It's incredibly tempting to take the easy way out, find yet another new person to start dating and have that make me feel good about myself. But I know how that always ends up. That's been my problem all along actually, I guess I used relationships and having a girlfriend as a way to fill the void in my self esteem rather than finding it within myself. I become a different person when I know I'm in a relationship. Just having a girl's number in my cellphone with a little heart next to her name or whatever else makes me feel ten times more able to go out and face the world. But that's the problem. I need to figure out how to feel that good about myself without relying on a girl to provide it and smothering them in the process.

 

Obviously an important plan of attack would be to figure out what is wrong with our self esteem to stop this from happening. It's a simple question with a very elusive answer. I can think of one or two things in my case, I don't like the physical shape I'm in and have spent years daydreaming about what's its like to be disciplined enough to be someone in really amazing shape, but have yet to figure out how to do it myself. I think if I could ever reach some of these goals that have eluded me for so long, I would start to believe in myself. But even then I'm not sure. I could be 250lbs of solid muscle walking around and still manage to have self esteem the size of a pea. But, it's a start at least. If I don't like myself because of certain things I've failed to accomplish, it's no wonder I'm not secure when someone says they love me. Is there anything in your life that you've been avoiding for a long time that would make you feel better about yourself? If there is, I think it would be a lot more productive to put your time, energy, and focus into that, rather than dating someone again. This problem is not going to go away, and the sooner we try to conquer it rather than just trying to pretend it isn't there, the better. I love being in a relationship, I love having someone to care about and vice versa, but I am denying myself that pleasure until I can get to the bottom of this, if ever. Much like the situation you are in. You can choose to date this girl you've got your eyes on, and know that most likely the same problems will cause it to crash and burn eventually, and then 6 months or a year from now you'll still be at square 1 trying to figure out how to fix this, or make the sacrifice now, let this one go or see if you can manage to keep in touch and see if she's available later on, and do the important work first.

 

I must have some deeply rooted abandonment issue as well. I have tried to dig deep and find it, but I haven't yet. I tried to figure it out when I was in therapy for a few months but my therapist seemed to be the type who felt that digging through ancient history wasn't going to fix the present day. Even if she had been more willing to discuss it, I don't know what there is for me to discuss. I've read books that place the beginnings of abandonment issues in early childhood. To my recollection, my parents were there for me. My family stayed in tact, no divorce, although there was a lot of arguing and we were far from perfect as a family. But I've come across nothing obvious in the recesses of my mind, I don't recall ever sitting upstairs in my room wishing my parents would pay attention to me or anything like that. Although the books I've read say it can even happen so early in life that it's before the age that you're able to recall memories from. Who knows, maybe I was a little kid crying in my crib and nobody came to check on me. I don't know. Something must have happened to me to set this in motion though. Is there anything in your childhood that comes to mind?

 

As you said, "I do love who I am". This makes this even more confusing to figure out. I don't think I'm a total piece of garbage. I think I've been an amazing boyfriend in my relationships in many respects. I think I'm a good person in general with a lot to offer. How can I say all that, yet still have terrible self esteem? I don't know. I guess there's self esteem in general, and then there's the type of self esteem to feel secure in a relationship and know that your girlfriend is out with other people and not feel threatened by it.

 

I'm really not sure how to fix this, and if I never do, I'm starting to think I'm prepared to just be alone, possibly forever. If I can't get to the point where I can trust someone to love me, then I am not going to attempt love anymore. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy anyway; allowing this insecurity and fear of abandonment into my relationships always ends up with me getting dumped and abandoned. It's the dumbest pattern in the world, to fear being left so much that you become needy and jealous and totally piss people off until they end up leaving you. You'd think if we have such a fear of abandonment, we'd be totally happy to let our partners do whatever makes them happy so they don't leave us. Yet it doesn't seem to work that way. It would work if we could genuinely get the toxic jealousy feelings to stop bothering us. But that seems almost impossible. Instead, we are only left with the option that you were asking about in this thread in the first place, is it possible that we can lie about it and ignore it enough to manage a successful relationship? My unfortunate conclusion about that is no. Jealousy/insecurity is the most impossible thing to ignore. I can hide it when I'm angry, I can hide it when I'm happy, I can hide it when I'm sad. But when that painful feeling rises up in my chest and I feel hurt that my gf is off doing something without me or whatever, there is no ignoring that. And the ironic thing is that if sitting at home while the gf is out and about makes us so concerned, why not tag along? Well, there comes that great insecurity again, 99% of the time I don't want to go along to whatever event she's going to, or have her bring me with to meet all her friends, so it's a lose lose either way. Too insecure to go with and too insecure to let her go do her own thing. That actually happened in my last relationship, she wanted to go to a concert, and I thought I was doing the best thing possible by offering to just stay home, I knew if I went with I would be grumpy and wanting to go home, so I thought if I can't be decent enough to go with her, the lesser of two evils is to at least encourage her to go alone and tell her I'm fine with it. But was I? Of course not. She went, but it turned into an argument, and I probably ruined her night anyway.

 

On a side note, I've been trying to figure out how to interject myself into the dialogue that has sprung up involving darkmoon without stirring up too much controversy. I will say I totally understand the response MrDDuck had to what you said, darkmoon. You have a few people in this thread exposing their soul to the world and admitting that they hate the patterns they allow themselves to fall in to in their relationships and the pain it causes their partners, and all you can add to the conversation is "ha, controlling men, that's what brought feminism around". Yeah... thanks for that contribution. It would be one thing if we were approaching this from the other end of things, starting a thread that said "Geez I wish I could meet some girl who understands that she is supposed to worship me and not have any other friends, what the heck is wrong with these women who think they deserve to have a social life outside of us". Then feel free to go on the attack. But that's not the discussion we are having here, we are admitting that we are the problem. You say "there's nothing new about controlling types of men", but that's exactly what my first post was about, I actually thought I might have something *new* to offer by sharing the insight that the root of this behavior is insecurity, not misogyny. As I said before, this is not about being a malicious, cruel person as most people seem to think. This is not about having a huge ego and feeling that our partners should spend every waking second doing what we command. In many ways our insecurities make it appear that is how we are behaving, but I'm not sure how many people would suspect that it's actually insecurity, not a huge ego or a crappy attitude causing all of this. The comment you made is exactly what I made reference to before when I said it always cut me very deeply and hurt my feelings when I read or heard the typical comments you hear directed at "controlling, jealous guys". I don't mean to be that type of monster, I don't want to be that type of monster, and I'm not proud of it either. I know that if I truly understood what it meant to love someone, I would want them to have the most amazing social life in the world. If I think the world of the woman I am with, shouldn't it make sense to me that other people are going to want to know her and spend time with her as well? So, I'm sorry, but I don't really sense much good intention behind what you came into this thread to say. It's the equivalent of walking into an AA meeting and saying "hey you stupid drunks, put down the beer, this is why people dislike you". Perhaps there are different breeds of controlling men. Maybe some do just get off on treating women like garbage and commanding every second of their free time. But if you pay attention to the conversation going on here it would seem that the thread creator and myself do not want to be this way and are in no way proud of it and we want to change.

 

Anyways... it seems after all my years on this forum that this thread is hitting closer to home than anything else ever has. It is a very interesting discussion for me, so much so that I've probably been working on this post for a good 45 mins now, while taking breaks to really think about what I want to say. I really hope there is some kind of solution out there for us MrDDuck. My insecurity has robbed me of many things in this lifetime, especially a few very beautiful relationships that did not need to end if it weren't for my behavior. I'd most likely be engaged to the previous gf right now if my usual s*** hadn't ruined everything. I wish my exes could understand why I acted that way. They see it as nothing more than ill-intentioned controlling male behavior as most tend to see it. Maybe they'd be surprised if they could ever grasp that the problem was really that I thought they were so amazing and that I'm worthless and I didn't want to lose them. Oh well...

 

Among the various things that has failed to cure this problem so far, is trying to remind myself of a saying I came across about how a relationship is like trying to hold a scoop of water in your hands. If you gently cradle it in your hands it doesn't go anywhere; if you clench your fists as tightly as possible to try to hold on to it, the next time you open your hands, there will be nothing there. I've tried so many times to learn to stop holding on so tightly. I keep failing...

Edited May 30, 2012 by Exit

[Got it]

Some may have read my previous post a while back. To summarize: I am a very controlling, bitter towards women, black and white kind of guy and very manipulative. I’m getting help for this when I’m off a waiting list to see a psychologist.

 

Should I wait meeting people so that I can fix my issues first? Or do I lie about my feelings to protect a new relationship so that it can grow out in a more healthy way.

 

In my previous relationship I was always honest about my controlling behavior. I told her I was sorry, that I needed help, that I didn’t want to be the guy that I had become. She obviously left me. I figured I should’ve lied about so many crucial things, so that she wouldn’t be pushed away by it and so that I could have tried to fix it before it was too late.

 

Do we need to lie in a relationship? Do we need to make that choice to have a better and healthier relationship?

 

I met a girl, she seems very nice and very shy. I have always been attracted to girls like that. I want them to experience something new, something great. The big problem however, is that after a while I want to control them too much. I become manipulative when she does something I don’t like, something that eats at my insecurities.

 

To be honest… she went to a concert with over 10.000 people. Even though I just met her and only communicated 3 e-mails back and forth, I felt unhappy/controlling of her choice to go to that concert.

 

What to do? I know that I have a lot to work on, but I’m not sure if I need to do this alone or fake it till I make it?

 

I do not think you should date until you worked through your issues. The need to control is tied to a feeling of lack of control in your life and over yourself. You are trying to control others around you because you are not feeling that you can control our well being if bad things happen. It is not a healthy coping mechanism.

 

You have to work on your insecurities first and come to peace with yourself so that the relationships in your life are the icing on your cake. They do not make or break you and you are fine even if they hurt you.

 

I have dealt with anorexia my whole life, I could not control my home environment as a kid so I took something I could control and used that as a coping mechanism.

 

You are not happy in this state, you can tell you are in a constant push and pull.

[Got it]

I think adandonment issues can come from validation issues from childhood. I took had an "intact" home but with constant fighting or silent treatment between my parents. They spent so much time in their cycle of anger that we would be emotionally ignored. I was also the people pleaser and the peace maker so I am very good at getting a vibe in a room and telling when someone is up. But I am also used to being in the shadows and have a fear that if I were in the spotlight would anyone actually care. That is tied to the feeling of not being good enough which, for me, tied to my eating disorder which is something I still deal with.

 

For me, my eating disorder is my "go to" in times of stress and sadness. Studies have shown that females tend to internalize more and males externalize. So I focus inward and take it out on myself by controlling food intake. I am aware of this, aware of the patterns and the whys and have safe guards in place to catch myself. These coping mechanisms can be a lifetime safe guard or disease (however you want to look at it) and how you handle it is up to you.

 

My father has abandonment issues tied to his mother. He was the youngest and the middle, daughter, was the apple of her eye. My grandfather worked away during the week and was only home on weekends. So my father grew up pretty much ignored and even to this day still chases this approval in his romantic relationships. He projected a lot of this in his marriage to my mom (and she has her own set of issues), where he has a knight in shing armor complex but with hidden strings attached. He will do so much and when he doesn't feel it is being reciproated at the level he is giving, or at all, he will blow up in anger. Now he doesn't out right address them with the person, and so hurt is brewing and the other party is oblivious until the explosion. His other defense, is to then date much younger women, still keeping with the KISA, but keeping it on a financial level so he is not emotionally invested out side of being the KISA.

 

I pity my father as I think he has a lot going for him but he has lived his whole life with low self esteem, anger issues, and definite abandonment issues that he has never addressed. He cycles in his anger and ends up pushing away the people who do care about him. He is a very intelligent man but emotionally damaged. He has never learned to accept and truly lilke himself and that deeply saddens me.

[Emilia]

OP, I think you might have borderline personality disorder