Christians who have rocked the world: fighting against slavery

[BetheButterfly]

 

Christians were instrumental in stopping many historical ills such as slavery, but certain people here hate that with a vengance and display their lack of knowledge in their postings.

 

I think many people do not realize the beautiful Love that Jesus taught. He didn't go around killing people who didn't believe in him; he went around healing people. Now, people can say he didn't exist, but many people in his time period most definitely thought he did, and they passed on their accounts of what he said and did to us.

 

Jesus came to set the captives free. While he mentioned slavery to sin (in John 8:36), that was his main focus: to set people free from their slavery to sin. However, in his commands to love one's neighbor as oneself, each other, and enemies, as well as his command to "Do unto others as you would have them do to you", he shows that enslaving people is not acceptable.

 

Now, I don't know why many Christians long time ago didn't see that. I think much of it had to do with ignorance. Also, just because someone calls her/himself a Christian, that doesn't mean she/he truly is one.

 

Jesus said that if we love him, we need to obey him. Obeying him includes loving others. Sometimes that's hard. However, loving others does not at all mean enslaving them. Loving others includes caring for their welfare and wanting them to be well. Enslaving does not equate loving/caring for someone.

[FredRutherford]

Originally Posted by thatone

but the people who compiled and edited the bible you read had slaves.

 

the early roman church even owned slaves.

 

there are writings from augustine that justify it.

A falsehood.

 

Biblical writers were of the poor or lower stratas of society.

That's one reason the early Roman Christians were persecuted, they were mostly of the working, slave class.

Only the wealthy or godless Romans owned slaves.

 

Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter, John, James, they weren't part of the privileged class.

 

Indeed, many of the biblical writers, including James, Paul, Peter & John were imprisoned for their beliefs.

IMPRISONED by godless Roman rulers simply because those atheistic rules hated the truth and despised freedom of speech, thought, religion and association.

 

The book of Revelation was written by John when he was exiled to the Greek island of Patmos, a rugged place where slaves during the day worked the mines.

[BetheButterfly]

A falsehood.

 

Biblical writers were of the poor or lower stratas of society.

That's one reason the early Roman Christians were persecuted, they were mostly of the working, slave class.

Only the wealthy or godless Romans owned slaves.

 

Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, Peter, John, James, they weren't part of the privileged class.

 

Indeed, many of the biblical writers, including James, Paul, Peter & John were imprisoned for their beliefs.

IMPRISONED by godless Roman rulers simply because those atheistic rules hated the truth and despised freedom of speech, thought, religion and association.

 

The book of Revelation was written by John when he was exiled to the Greek island of Patmos, a rugged place where slaves during the day worked the mines.

 

The Romans were not Atheists; they had many gods.

 

The following articles are very interesting:

Early Christianity and the Gods of Rome ? Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

Ancient Civilizations : Religion : Christianity in Rome

 

This is very interesting: " Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ--none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do--these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ."

 

From Pliny and Trajan on the Christians

 

About the writers of the New Testament, the study of the compilation of the Scriptures is really cool! The following are interesting articles bout how the different writings came together:

 

How We Got The New Testament

 

How Did We Get The New Testament? | Minds 2 Mentes

 

How was the New Testament passed down: the New Testament canon

 

I have to go now. I have a cold and can't sleep, but I need to try! Blessings Fred!

[BetheButterfly]

Why do Christians not acknowledge the wrongdoings of their devout forefathers and contemporaries? Why do they not admit that those who founded such institutions and so active for freedom, were merely undoing the crimes of equally devoted and faithful preceding, god-fearing christians?

 

First of all, I do acknowledge that people who called/call themselves Christians and yet kill/ed, enslave/d, persecute/d, rape/d, and so on did wrong. It is also disobeying Jesus' teachings.

 

I am appalled and horrified at the Inquisition, the Crusades, the witch burnings, the killings of Catholics/Protestants at each others' hands, the persecution of Jewish people by "Christians", the killing of Muslims by "Christians", the forcing others to "convert" instead of merely inviting, the stealing of the Native Americans' land and persecution of them by different Protestant groups, enslaving other people due to the color of their skin, and so on. It horrifies me. Jesus did not command his followers to do that, but rather commanded them to love others!!!

 

Since Jesus Christ is the founder of Christianity, it is important to take note of what he said and did. Did Jesus say for people to enslave other people? No. He said to serve others. Did Jesus say to kill the Romans or the Jewish people who didn't accept him? No. He said to love one's enemies (and the Romans were the enemies of Israel, his country). Did Jesus say to persecute others? No. He said to endure persecution, to love, to forgive, to bless, to do good to, and to pray for.

 

So, while I do freely admit that there are people who call themselves Christians who do and have done horrible wrongs, I also look to Jesus and what Jesus said and did. Jesus served, loved, and helped people. He didn't kill others. He didn't lead his followers into war. He didn't tell his followers to kill or hurt those who didn't believe in him. Rather, he told them to love.

To me, Jesus' words are very powerful and if he had followed the Roman Empire by enslaving people and conquering people instead of loving people and serving people, I would not follow him. It is because of his teachings to Love that attract me to being his follower.

Edited March 17, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[FredRutherford]

I do appreciate that you go to the trouble of highlighting your own falsehoods, means I don't have to read too closely.

 

I'd love some sources for these claims that the ancient Romans (a polytheistic society) were atheists. Which rulers in particular do you think were atheists?

The Roman government, the DICTATORS, burned Christians at the stake.

Ordered their deaths in the Collessium.

 

They hated the truth and anyone who dare question The State's assertion that IT was God.

 

If you support placing boots to peoples' necks, ENSLAVING them, forbidding the exercise of freedom of speech, religion, movement... then something's wrong with you.

[BetheButterfly]

The Roman government, the DICTATORS, burned Christians at the stake.

Ordered their deaths in the Collessium.

 

They hated the truth and anyone who dare question The State's assertion that IT was God.

 

If you support placing boots to peoples' necks, ENSLAVING them, forbidding the exercise of freedom of speech, religion, movement... then something's wrong with you.

 

I don't think QuickJoe is supporting the boldened part above at all. Even though he is not a Christian, that doesn't make him supportive of the above. There are many Atheists who are against people enslaving other people, same as people who call themselves Christians who understand Jesus' commands to love others and to do unto others what you would have them do to you.

 

About the Roman Empire, slavery, and Christianity, the following is a youtube that's an amazing documentary about the spread of Christianity in the Roman Empire, which includes mentioning how some slaves came to believe in Christ:

 

How Christianity Spread Throughout The Roman Empire (Europe) - YouTube

 

Some of the quotes that have to do with the topic of Christianity and slavery are about how many of the poor and "lower class" people in the Roman Empire became Christians. For some slaves and poor people, Christian beliefs gave them hope and the idea that they would be accepted into a better place: Heaven.

 

I like the following quotes from the documentary linked above: (I boldened some.)

 

starting at 1:34 -

"...Christian religion is fundamentally at odds with everything Rome stands for... Ancient Romans are polytheists.... "

starting at 2:43-

"...In contrast, Christians believe in one all-powerful God. Their leaders preach peace, modesty, and a readiness for the afterlife..."

 

starting at 7:33-

..."Initially Christians are only seen as a sect of the Jews... Jesus was a Jew... all of the early Christians considered themselves Jews...the Jewish religion predates the Romans..."

 

Starting at 8:32-

"...Generally speaking, early Christianity is religion of the poor... Rising from the lowest segments of society, the Christians worship one of their own."

 

Starting at 11:37-

"...to the urban poor, it's simple and seductive. Christians were promised that they were going to a happier place, a place that they would be welcomed and they would be one of the elect in this place called Heaven.'"

 

Starting at 22:25-

"...Women came in droves... most of the converts that we know about were apparently women...talk to their families... raise their children...virtues...

 

...Some scholars believe that the new faith attracts women for one specific reason:'Women got a raw deal from traditional Roman religion... young girls had a very small chance of surviving...second daughter, that daughter would very likely be killed shortly after birth. Christian society didn't allow this. Women adopted Christianity because to them, it was a way of preserving their family. The message that all are equal in the sight of God means that Christianity is recruiting in areas that other cults ignore...

 

... it admitted slaves, free people, men, women, rich, poor. Anyone could join...

...to those with nothing, the Christian network offers real, practical help. Poorer people were attracted because of the social institutions that church organizations provided..."

 

"They set out to win hearts and minds. It works. Christian communities encouraged people to stay and nurse the sick:whether they be Christian or pagan..."

 

"...the Christians' attention to healthcare is so successful that people simply live longer.... Christians nursed more effectively than pagans. The Christian community had a much higher chance of survival. They have a high rate of conversion, low infant mortality, increased life expectancy...."

 

Starting at 32:00-

"Though its message is mystical, its people are practical...

...third century...Christianity is also attractive to members of the aristocracy and not just the humble and meek: not just carpenters, shepherds, fishermen, slaves, women, but also leading figures in Roman society....spreads up through the hierarchy of Roman society... attracted... ideas that Christianity put forward..."

 

Starting at 37:58-

"Soon, the Roman state and the Christian establishment will fuse and become one. Traditionally, the only success that really matters in Rome is military. In an empire built on conquest, a leader makes his name by winning wars. The Christians' message completely counters the ways of Rome, yet their takeover of the Empire is cemented with a battlefield victory..."

 

starting at 39:21

"...Constantine...vicious civil war...sign... fight in the name of the God of the Christians... matter of controversy and debate...skeptics consider it a hallucination, perhaps a downright lie..."

 

starting at 42:01

"...Christianity has become ever more Roman."

 

Now, one thing that interests me and makes me wonder is that it seems that when the "high class" people of Rome "adopted" "Christianity", they basically hijacked this faith. Many the high class coverts approved of Roman ideals of conquering/fighting, even though Jesus did not teach his followers to conquer/kill/enslave people.

When Constantine allegedly became a "Christian", it seems Roman ideals became more important to Gentile Christians than Jesus' teachings on love. Since Roman ideals included conquering and enslaving people, as well as torturing/killing their enemies, I think Christianity was hijacked.

Now, I think it's nice that Christians were no longer persecuted, but the cost of Christianity being hijacked means that many followed Roman ideals instead of Jesus' teachings.

 

Many people who called themselves Christians in Europe (and those who went out from Europe to other continents)were greatly influenced by the Roman empire and ideals, and saw no problem in enslaving people until little by little, some people began reading Jesus' teachings accounted in the Bible and realized that enslaving people and torturing people is in direct disobedience to Jesus' commands to love one's neighbor as oneself, each other, and one's enemies, as well as to do unto others what you would have them do to you.

 

 

[todreaminblue]

I didn't join this site to read proselytizing.

 

 

but you also chose your right to comment and read anyway........as i chose to reply to your comment and to post i thoroughly enjoyed the post by bethebutterfly and the effort and time that she took to post it ......i also thank you for posting proselytizing because now i have to look that up in the dictionary i have no idea what you are actually talking about.....sounds condescending though.....

 

 

ROCK ON BETHEBUTTERFLY LUV IT LUV IT LUV IT...........going to dictionary.com.....hugs

 

P R O S E L Y T I Z I N G

[BetheButterfly]

A very powerful abolitionist that I am currently learning about, due to a thread in the political section, is Frederick Douglass. He's an amazing man who was a former slave. I am so mad just thinking about how people were/are forced into slavery and why.

 

Frederick Douglass is a Christian pastor who struggled with how a righteous and loving God could allow slavery. I understand that and have questioned that myself many times. The following is an interesting quote from Frederic Douglass, as well as a quote from someone? commenting on it: I boldened some in all the quote below)

 

"I held my Sabbath school at the house of a free colored man, whose name I deem it imprudent to mention; for should it be known, it might embarrass him greatly, though the crime of holding the school was committed ten years ago. I had at one time over forty scholars, and those of the right sort, ardently desiring to learn. They were of all ages, though mostly men and women. I look back to those Sundays with an amount of pleasure not to be expressed. They were great days to my soul. The work of instructing my dear fellow-slaves was the sweetest engagement with which I was ever blessed. We loved each other, and to leave them at the close of the Sabbath was a severe cross indeed. When I think that these precious souls are to-day shut up in the prison-house of slavery, my feelings overcome me, and I am almost ready to ask, 'Does a righteous God govern the universe? and for what does he hold the thunders in his right hand, if not to smite the oppressor, and deliver the spoiled out of the hand of the spoiler?' (10.23)

 

"Douglass ends by questioning how a righteous God (a God who does the right things) can really rule the universe, since He allows terrible things like slavery to exist. Yet he still continues to teach the other slaves to read (and to read the Bible). Perhaps Douglass's sense of right and wrong isn't simply limited to his belief in God?"

 

 

Frederick Douglass understood that those who called themselves Christians yet enslaved people were actually deceiving themselves that they truly follow Jesus Christ (because they really were not following Jesus' teachings to love and do unto others what you would have them do to you).

 

 

Here, Frederick Douglass talks about his slaveowner:

 

 

"He seemed to think himself equal to deceiving the Almighty. He would make a short prayer in the morning, and a long prayer at night; and, strange as it may seem, few men would at times appear more devotional than he. The exercises of his family devotions were always commenced with singing; and, as he was a very poor singer himself, the duty of raising the hymn generally came upon me. He would read his hymn, and nod at me to commence. I would at times do so; at others, I would not. My non-compliance would almost always produce much confusion. To show himself independent of me, he would start and stagger through with his hymn in the most discordant manner. In this state of mind, he prayed with more than ordinary spirit. Poor man! such was his disposition, and success at deceiving, I do verily believe that he sometimes deceived himself into the solemn belief, that he was a sincere worshipper of the most high God" (10.4)

 

"Douglass has no time for slave owners who think they are Christians, and Mr. Covey (whom Douglass is talking about here) is a good example. Even though he seems like one of the most devoted Christians around, it's all an act. But here's the thing: even Covey is fooled! He isn't just a hypocrite, he actually thinks he is a Christian. And so, when Douglass doesn't want to pray with a man who believes owning slaves is a righteous thing to do, Covey is completely confused."

Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass Religion Quotes Page 1

 

 

I want to read this book!

 

Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave. by Frederick Douglass

 

I really admire how the letter where he eloquently confronts the slaveowner. Wow!!!

 

Below is from the letter he sent to Aud: (I boldened some and would really love to meet this Frederick Douglass, a great man!!!)

 

 

" You, sir, can never know my feelings. As I look back to them, I can scarcely realize that I have passed through a scene so trying. Trying however as they were, and gloomy as was the prospect, thanks be to the Most High, who is ever the God of the oppressed, at the moment which was to determine my whole earthly career. His grace was sufficient, my mind was made up. I embraced the golden opportunity, took the morning tide at the flood, and a free man, young, active and strong, is the result.

 

I have often thought I should like to explain to you the grounds upon which I have justified myself in running away from you. I am almost ashamed to do so now, for by this time you may have discovered them yourself. I will, however, glance at them. When yet but a child about six years old, I imbibed the determination to run away. The very first mental effort that I now remember on my part, was an attempt to solve the mystery, Why am I a slave? and with this question my youthful mind was troubled for many days, pressing upon me more heavily at times than others. When I saw the slave-driver whip a slave woman, cut the blood out of her neck, and heard her piteous cries, I went away into the corner of the fence, wept and pondered over the mystery. I had, through some medium, I know not what, got some idea of God, the Creator of all mankind, the black and the white, and that he had made the blacks to serve the whites as slaves. How he could do this and be good, I could not tell. I was not satisfied with this theory, which made God responsible for slavery, for it pained me greatly, and I have wept over it long and often. At one time, your first wife, Mrs. Lucretia, heard me singing and saw me shedding tears, and asked of me the matter, but I was afraid to tell her. I was puzzled with this question, till one night, while sitting in the kitchen, I heard some of the old slaves talking of their parents having been stolen from Africa by white men, and were sold here as slaves. The whole mystery was solved at once. Very soon after this my aunt Jinny and uncle Noah ran away, and the great noise made about it by your father-in-law, made me for the first time acquainted with the fact, that there were free States as well as slave States. From that time, I resolved that I would some day run away. The morality of the act, I dispose as follows: I am myself; you are yourself; we are two distinct persons, equal persons. What you are, I am. You are a man, and so am I. God created both, and made us separate beings. I am not by nature bound to you, or you to me. Nature does not make your existence depend upon me, or mine to depend upon yours. I cannot walk upon your legs, or you upon mine. I cannot breathe for you, or you for me; I must breathe for myself, and you for yourself. We are distinct persons, and are each equally provided with faculties necessary to our individual existence. In leaving you, I took nothing but what belonged to me, and in no way lessened your means for obtaining an honest living. Your faculties remained yours, and mine became useful to their rightful owner. I therefore see no wrong in any part of the transaction. It is true, I went off secretly, but that was more your fault than mine. Had I let you into the secret, you would have defeated the enterprise entirely; but for this, I should have been really glad to have made you acquainted with my intentions to leave."...

 

 

"Your wickedness and cruelty committed in this respect on your fellow-creatures, are greater than all the stripes you have laid upon my back, or theirs. It is an outrage upon the soul—a war upon the immortal spirit, and one for which you must give account at the bar of our common Father and Creator."

 

...

 

" How, let me ask, would you look upon me, were I some dark night in company with a band of hardened villains, to enter the precincts of your elegant dwelling and seize the person of your own lovely daughter Amanda, and carry her off from your family, friends and all the loved ones of her youth—make her my slave—compel her to work, and I take her wages—place her name on my ledger as property—disregard her personal rights—fetter the powers of her immortal soul by denying her the right and privilege of learning to read and write—feed her coarsely—clothe her scantily, and whip her on the naked back occasionally; more and still more horrible, leave her unprotected—a degraded victim to the brutal lust of fiendish overseers, who would pollute, blight, and blast her fair soul—rob her of all dignity—destroy her virtue, and annihilate all in her person the graces that adorn the character of virtuous womanhood? I ask how would you regard me, if such were my conduct? Oh! the vocabulary of the damned would not afford a word sufficiently infernal, to express your idea of my God-provoking wickedness. Yet sir, your treatment of my beloved sisters is in all essential points, precisely like the case I have now supposed. Damning as would be such a deed on my part, it would be no more so than that which you have committed against me and my sisters."

All of the letter is amazing and I recommend reading all of it:

 

Frederick Douglass, Letter to Thomas Auld (September 3, 1848)

 

 

I think it is amazing that later on, he forgave Aud.

"As a young man Douglass so hated slavery that he "unloosed his chains," yet as an aging Sage, he could, with tears in his eyes, visit his old master on his death-bed and forgive him his past transgressions."

Frederick Douglass, Lecture, 1875

 

 

About Jesus Christ, Frederick Douglass wrote the following:

 

“I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ: I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of the land. Indeed, I can see no reason, but the most deceitful one, for calling the religion of this land Christianity. I look upon it as the climax of all misnomers, the boldest of all frauds, and the grossest of all libels. Never was there a clearer case of 'stealing the livery of the court of heaven to serve the devil in.' I am filled with unutterable loathing when I contemplate the religious pomp and show, together with the horrible inconsistencies, which every where surround me. We have men-stealers for ministers, women-whippers for missionaries, and cradle-plunderers for church members. The man who wields the blood-clotted cowskin during the week fills the pulpit on Sunday, and claims to be a minister of the meek and lowly Jesus. . . . The slave auctioneer’s bell and the church-going bell chime in with each other, and the bitter cries of the heart-broken slave are drowned in the religious shouts of his pious master. Revivals of religion and revivals in the slave-trade go hand in hand together. The slave prison and the church stand near each other. The clanking of fetters and the rattling of chains in the prison, and the pious psalm and solemn prayer in the church, may be heard at the same time. The dealers in the bodies and souls of men erect their stand in the presence of the pulpit, and they mutually help each other. The dealer gives his blood-stained gold to support the pulpit, and the pulpit, in return, covers his infernal business with the garb of Christianity. Here we have religion and robbery the allies of each other—devils dressed in angels’ robes, and hell presenting the semblance of paradise.”

― Frederick Douglass, Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass

 

 

Frederick Douglass most definitely understood that Jesus Christ did not teach people to enslave other people, but rather taught people to love each other!!! I so wish others who called themselves Christians understood that!!!

Edited March 20, 2013 by BetheButterfly

[soccerrprp]

A great discussion...

 

As a long-time atheist turned agnostic then christian now returning to my agnostic roots (classify myself as a Deist at best), i find the issue slavery troubling and always have.

 

This country's and the country's that promoted it the most Europeans, America, were and clearly defined themselves as christian societies. Now one may argue that slavery was and is an immoral institution, though the bible isn't clear on this (failure of scripture). But the treatment of slaves is clearly something that is not supported or justified by scripture.

 

As an American, I believe that the pre-civil rights South was a corrupt and immoral institution. If there is a hell, I also believe that the vast majority of the Southerners of those times are certain bound to that place of fire and brimstone. Of course, I do not believe in such a place....

 

But, here is why I believe that if there is, they ought to be... Someone early provided the excuse that cultural and societal tenets of the time proved them the reasons for not knowing that slavery was wrong, but how murder, rape, physical violence, false accusations, etc. ? These are clearly anti-Christian acts. So, the southerners who ignored and likely supported and certainly participated in such acts are damned.

 

Here's another problem I have with God and scriptures and Christians. If everyone claims that God is consistent and never-changing, always merciful, omniscent, etc. then why did it take hundreds, thousands of years later for people to realize that slavery was wrong? Was God giving mixed messages, no messages, wrong messages?

 

Or were our christian brethren more influenced by the social/ideological norms than they were by their god? This is a question equally relevant today.

[harmfulsweetz]

The New Testament was written mostly by "common" people, members of the underclass.

Not those in authority.

 

The brutal atheists who murdered people who held other political and religious beliefs -- the ones who couldn't stand the thought of contrary beliefs and freedom of expression -- those common people couldn't affect or change laws. Would do no good to turn Scripture into a political cause.

 

 

 

 

The postings in this thread indicate a lack of historical understanding of Christianity and the ancient world.

 

Just a quick note: how can an atheist hold religious beliefs? I think you need to find a good definition of what an atheist is-a person who lacks belief in god (s).

 

Did they kill because of their atheism? Last I checked...no one kills because of a lack of belief. I could be entirely wrong.

 

 

The problem with trying to make the point that Christians fought to abolish slavery is that Christians also fought to keep slaves. What do you think the confederates were? They justified owning, and treating slaves the way they did using the Bible.

 

So I think it might be more worthwhile to say decent people (rather than labelling them Christians) stood up for what was right against not so decent people. The fact that those that stood up against slavery were Christians makes no matter, it was the dominant belief system of that time, in that place.

 

JMHO.

[harmfulsweetz]

Highly inflammatory and once again, false information.

 

According to biographies I've viewed on A&E and Bio, Hitler's regime was based on the occult.

 

 

 

So what?

Shall we list all the infamous atheists?

 

Stalin- murdered millions

Lenin

Chairman Mao- murdered millions

Pol Pot

Jeffery Dahmer was during his killings

Ted Kaczynski- Unabomber

Ted Bundy- serial killer

The Columbine shooters

 

 

Wrong-Ted Bundy was...you guessed it...Christian!

 

Even so-make the leap that they killed because of their atheism...I dare you.

[harmfulsweetz]

The Roman government, the DICTATORS, burned Christians at the stake.

Ordered their deaths in the Collessium.

 

They hated the truth and anyone who dare question The State's assertion that IT was God.

 

If you support placing boots to peoples' necks, ENSLAVING them, forbidding the exercise of freedom of speech, religion, movement... then something's wrong with you.

 

Christians burned people alive, too. I like how you selectively ignore that fact. They tortured them, and killed because people didn't believe as they did.

 

It seems you're arguing against what Christians have done for a very long time.

 

 

 

[soccerrprp]

Christians burned people alive, too. I like how you selectively ignore that fact. They tortured them, and killed because people didn't believe as they did.

 

It seems you're arguing against what Christians have done for a very long time.

 

 

The Inquisitions (there were a few of them) are a prime example. Don't even get me going about Martin Luther and his hate and he's regarded as the Christian (Protestant) Reformist and celebrated as a great man!

 

But harmfulsweetz is right. There were plenty more "christians" who did everything to establish and perpetuate slavery.

Edited March 20, 2013 by soccerrprp

[BetheButterfly]

The Inquisitions (there were a few of them) are a prime example. Don't even get me going about Martin Luther and his hate and he's regarded as the Christian (Protestant) Reformist and celebrated as a great man!

 

But harmfulsweetz is right. There were plenty more "christians" who did everything to establish and perpetuate slavery.

 

A person who says he/she follows Jesus Christ should do what Jesus Christ says, right? Jesus Christ says to love one's neighbor as oneself (Matthew 22:39), love each other (John 15:12), and love one's enemies (Matthew 5:44, Luke 6:27-37), as well as "do unto other what you would have them do to you" (Luke 6:31).

 

So, those who do not obey Jesus' commands are not truly following him. Sadly, "Christianity" has been hijacked. I personally think "Christianity" was hijacked by the Roman Empire's ideals, which include conquering other places, killing enemies, and enslaving people.

 

What's important to note though is what did Jesus Christ do and say? Did he kill his enemies and enslave people? Nope. Rather, he was killed and he did not come to enslave, but rather to serve people. He ordered his followers to endure persecution (not persecute) and to serve people too, to love, to forgive, to do good, to pray for, and to bless. He did not order them to make other people their slaves. The apostles and disciples of Jesus Christ are known in history not as killing/enslaving people, but rather as telling people about Jesus and dying for Jesus.

 

Sadly, throughout history there have been many liars who say they are Christians when really they weren't/aren't, as well as many who are ignorant at to what the founder of Christianity, Jesus Christ, said to do in order to be his followers.

[pie2]

So I think it might be more worthwhile to say decent people (rather than labelling them Christians) stood up for what was right against not so decent people.

 

Christians burned people alive, too. I like how you selectively ignore that fact. They tortured them, and killed because people didn't believe as they did.

 

What you posted above is interesting to me. It seems that you struggle with attributing something good to a "Christian", but seem to readily label those who do horrendous things as "Christian". Just something that is interesting to me. I mean, you're free label people however you like (if that is what's really happening here), but it doesn't seem very objective.

 

If true, I would wonder what really sparked such antagonism...?

[harmfulsweetz]

What you posted above is interesting to me. It seems that you struggle with attributing something good to a "Christian", but seem to readily label those who do horrendous things as "Christian". Just something that is interesting to me. I mean, you're free label people however you like (if that is what's really happening here), but it doesn't seem very objective.

 

If true, I would wonder what really sparked such antagonism...?

 

No, I have trouble saying that certain people do good things because they are a Christian, when they are clear examples of people doing bad things in the name of Christianity.

 

Antagonism? How's about just pointing out the truth? If you say that Christians helped free slaves (which is true), then you have to admit that just as many (if not more) kept slaves, and used the Bible as justification for that. It's far easier to say that it was not because of their religious convictions that they freed the slaves, but because they were decent people. Yet, it's quite clear in the Bible that "god" allows slavery, and even provides "rules" for it.